Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: FAQ August 10th]

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**Fezza213**

Malifice wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Malifice wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
I don't need the extra strength when I have two guys with 5 attacks swinging Power Fists.

And one of those fists should be doing 3 damage per swing, with no penalty to hit (at S8, 2+ to hit... with rerolls to hit and wound).

If you aren't punching out 10 - 15 wounds per phase with that character, youre probably not doing it right.
That was exactly my thought. Between Pedro, the HG, the LT, Champ, and Apothecary, it will be 10 Str 8 AP-3 attacks (5 with 3+, 5 with 2+), 6 Str 5 AP-2, 5 Str 4 AP-3, and 5 Str 4 AP-0 attacks, rerolling all misses and wound rolls of 1. My friend called this the Good Squad even before the LT became a possibility (I ran it with another set of HG instead of the LT and Champ). They will wreck just about anything on the charge. Even better if 10 enemy models are nearby. Too bad they can't combine into one unit, I would fire up the 3CP Strategem that lets them fight again in the fight phase.

I wish the LT could get a Storm Shield though. Would make him more survivable.

Plonk a few of those Honor Guard next to the Lt as 2+ ablative wounds. If they go down, they get a free swing with their power axes (Ancient), and then get to be brought back to life (Apothecary).

They can also sacrifice themselves for the Ancient and Apothecary (who can then ressurect them).

Its worth spending extra for the bonus relics. Plonk the Standard of the Emperor Ascendant on the Ancient, as well as the Fist of Vengance on a Lt.

Your Honor guard can throw themselves around saving not just Kantor, but also the Apothecary, the Lt with the Fist and the Ancient as well.

Imagine your opponent when he deals a wound on a character, only for an honor guard to soak the wound instead (on a 2+), maybe die and instantly smash him with his axe (3+)... and then be brought back to life on a 4+.

Also; Apothecaries are dirt cheap (and have 4 wounds each). Its probably worth taking 2.

I will be when I field a 6 man Dev Cent (Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters) squad. The Cents cost 65 points a pop, each HB costs 10 each, and the Hurricane Bolters another 4 points. At 89 points each, potentially bringing 2 of those guys back to life each turn will be priceless.

You make nearly double your points back on the Apothecary just ressurecting one of them.

Bolter drill + Pedro + Lt + 36 HB and 36-72 Bolter shots should be rather hillarious. I may arm one or two with a Grav cannon + Amp (and have them die first, squeezing off 4 shots with the Grav cannon as they die on a 3+, before being ressurected on a 4+).

Also; for a cheap HQ Tax slot, Apothecaries are golden.

Apothecaries are elites not HQ's, I like the rest of it though.

**Crazyterran**

Ultramarines have Chronus and Telion, go team cheap HQs.

If Telion is too expensive, there's always a Lieutenant!

**MajorWesJanson**

Crazyterran wrote:
Ultramarines have Chronus and Telion, go team cheap HQs.

If Telion is too expensive, there's always a Lieutenant!

Or for cheaper, Techmarines to heal vehicles too

**Crazyterran**

Chronus is 35 points in the new book, apparently, while Telion got bumped up to 103.

**BrianDavion**

Crazyterran wrote:
Chronus is 35 points in the new book, apparently, while Telion got bumped up to 103.

honestly I'd like to see Telion finally promoted up to captain of the 10th

**casvalremdeikun**

BrianDavion wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
Chronus is 35 points in the new book, apparently, while Telion got bumped up to 103.

honestly I'd like to see Telion finally promoted up to captain of the 10th

He keeps refusing. He could easily be the Captain of the First Company, but he doesn't want the job.

**A Watcher In The Dark**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
Chronus is 35 points in the new book, apparently, while Telion got bumped up to 103.

honestly I'd like to see Telion finally promoted up to captain of the 10th
He keeps refusing. He could easily be the Captain of the First Company, but he doesn't want the job.

Maybe... He'll want to become a Primaris instead.

**Battle Brother Lucifer**

My first guess for "first 'regular' marine upgraded to Primaris " is Marneus Calgar, actually. I haven't yet read Dark Imperium, but I've seen mention of how Calgar is having serious never meet your hero issues. I think he'll be the first test thats a big name, not just Brother 950 of 1000, because what would impress his hero more then being a Primaris?

First character that'll be the 'terminator primaris' equivalent, like, step above gravis in size and bulk, better looking gauntlets (the bolt storm from the starter set looked great, as does Pedro Kantor's, while imho the Aggressor's look wonky and a bit silly tbh), a safe sign that Primaris-ing is a-ok (until it turns out its not codex: Pri-mean-is Marines) , and GW's chance to sell people all the best chapter master's and important characters Primaris'd, which could also lead to some chapters refusing and the new heresy, but I can't look *that* far into the future

**Galas**

The new points:

Spoiler:

From here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAmydQ6lNFM

**Crimson**

So the Primaris Librarian still costs the same as the regular one, while being flat out better...

And vanilla Captain still costs only four points more than a Primaris Lieutenant, gaining better BS and LD, 4+ invulnerable save and arguably better buff and options...

**MasterSlowPoke**

Rerolling 1's to wound is mathematically equivalent to rerolling 1's to hit.

H = chance to hit
W = chance to wound

(H+1/6*H)*W = HW+1/6HW
H*(W+1/6*W) = HW+1/6HW

**Crimson**

MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Rerolling 1's to wound is mathematically equivalent to rerolling 1's to hit.

Not when plasma is a thing.

In any case, I'm the only one who thinks that the Captain gains unreasonable amount of stuff for four points?

**MasterSlowPoke**

Good point.

**changemod**

MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Rerolling 1's to wound is mathematically equivalent to rerolling 1's to hit.

Incorrect, you roll more hits than wounds because you fail some of the hits.

More dice rolled = more rerolls.

Changing the order of the hit and wound rolls without adding rerolls is however mathematically identical.

**Xenomancers**

Crazyterran wrote:
Chronus is 35 points in the new book, apparently, while Telion got bumped up to 103.

Can chronus command a repulsor?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crimson wrote:
So the Primaris Librarian still costs the same as the regular one, while being flat out better...

And vanilla Captain still costs only four points more than a Primaris Lieutenant, gaining better BS and LD, 4+ invulnerable save and arguably better buff and options...

Can't give a primaris lib a jump pack though or bike though - big draw back.

**Kirasu**

They really don't want to sell Repulsors... 210 base points before weapons? What a joke for a supposed main transport for Primaris.

**stewe128**

Dreadnoughts look like they can be nasty

**Crimson**

Xenomancers wrote:

Can't give a primaris lib a jump pack though or bike though - big draw back.

Irrelevant. This should be reflected in the cost of bike and jump pack options. Besides, already in the index the bike Librarian is a separate entry (and completely gone in the Codex) and the jump Librarian seems to be a separate entry in the codex. So no, the normal Librarian I'm talking about doesn't even have either of those options.

**Mandragola**

Xenomancers wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
Chronus is 35 points in the new book, apparently, while Telion got bumped up to 103.

Can chronus command a repulsor?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crimson wrote:
So the Primaris Librarian still costs the same as the regular one, while being flat out better...

And vanilla Captain still costs only four points more than a Primaris Lieutenant, gaining better BS and LD, 4+ invulnerable save and arguably better buff and options...

Can't give a primaris lib a jump pack though or bike though - big draw back.

No, but he costs the same as a librarian on foot. Jump pack or bike is more expensive.

Repulsor seems reasonable at 210 points. It looks to me like hellblasters have taken a substantial price drop, down to 33 points each with plasma incinerators. Assault guys are 34 and heavy 38. That seems more reasonable. In fact an incinerator with a heavy plasma incinerator costs the same as a devastator with a lascannon - though the lascannon still does more damage and doesn't blow up. I think the standard guys are probably best, and now cheap enough to use a couple of units.

4 points for an auxiliary grenade launcher on intercessors makes that a no-brainer, as is the power sword for the sergeant I think.

**aracersss**

if I'm getting this straight did stormravens get nerfed in points rather than increased?

**theharrower**

Kirasu wrote:
They really don't want to sell Repulsors... 210 base points before weapons? What a joke for a supposed main transport for Primaris.

You ain't kidding. With them restricting this to Primaris Marines only and there not really being a need to have Primaris marines in a transport as the Reivers can deep strike and such without one I don't see a point. I love the model, but not like I can stick Death Company or Vanguard Vets in there. At 210 without weapons and no 2+, I think it's a pass for me. I'll stick with my Land Raiders and Storm Ravens. Shame too. I think it looks great. Even better in Blood Angels red. Primaris for me is probably going to be a unit of Reivers, a unit of Intercessors with Stalker Bolters, and maybe a unit of Hellblasters.

**casvalremdeikun**

Kirasu wrote:
They really don't want to sell Repulsors... 210 base points before weapons? What a joke for a supposed main transport for Primaris.

That was my thought as well. I called it back when it was first revealed. 300 pt transport was not with it then, it certainly isn't now that we know it can't carry regular Marines.

**AduroT**

Has there been a picture anywhere yet of the Aux Grenade Launchers on the Primaris guys yet?

**Mandragola**

I disagree. It's a Land raider analogue, not a rhino. The fly keyword alone makes a huge difference.

You get a mobile tank with 4 lascannons (effectively) and potms. You can stick a bunch of dakka on it too.

Transporting 10 Primaris gives you a few options. I do agree that there's no primaris option that obviouly lends itself to riding in a repulsor. Flamer-armed aggressors are possibly the best option, possibly backed up by a couple of characters. Hellblasters probably don't need it.

On the whole, storm ravens are probably better - because they are obviously underpriced. But repulsors do still give you a nice set of mobile firepower and transport capacity if you want it. They don't seem a useless unit to me - but neither do they seem all that great.

**str00dles1**

Mandragola wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
Chronus is 35 points in the new book, apparently, while Telion got bumped up to 103.

Can chronus command a repulsor?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crimson wrote:
So the Primaris Librarian still costs the same as the regular one, while being flat out better...

And vanilla Captain still costs only four points more than a Primaris Lieutenant, gaining better BS and LD, 4+ invulnerable save and arguably better buff and options...

Can't give a primaris lib a jump pack though or bike though - big draw back.

No, but he costs the same as a librarian on foot. Jump pack or bike is more expensive.

Repulsor seems reasonable at 210 points. It looks to me like hellblasters have taken a substantial price drop, down to 33 points each with plasma incinerators. Assault guys are 34 and heavy 38. That seems more reasonable. In fact an incinerator with a heavy plasma incinerator costs the same as a devastator with a lascannon - though the lascannon still does more damage and doesn't blow up. I think the standard guys are probably best, and now cheap enough to use a couple of units.

4 points for an auxiliary grenade launcher on intercessors makes that a no-brainer, as is the power sword for the sergeant I think.

How on earth do you think tis reasonable at 210? Maybe 210 with ALL options included sure. After you give it its mandatory gear, its 280-300. A normal land raider is just better and only costs a bit more. If it had 2+ armor save id say maybe, but as is, better to run your squads on foot and just use Sicarans or Fire Raptors if you want vehicle hitting power. (which is also why the Redemptor dread is not so much worth it either. Levithan/Contemptor are just better. Levi vastly more durable, contemptor better stats for cheaper/same and degrades not as bad as redemptor)

**Xenomancers**

Mandragola wrote:
I disagree. It's a Land raider analogue, not a rhino. The fly keyword alone makes a huge difference.

You get a mobile tank with 4 lascannons (effectively) and potms. You can stick a bunch of dakka on it too.

Transporting 10 Primaris gives you a few options. I do agree that there's no primaris option that obviouly lends itself to riding in a repulsor. Flamer-armed aggressors are possibly the best option, possibly backed up by a couple of characters. Hellblasters probably don't need it.

On the whole, storm ravens are probably better - because they are obviously underpriced. But repulsors do still give you a nice set of mobile firepower and transport capacity if you want it. They don't seem a useless unit to me - but neither do they seem all that great.

I think it's much better as a dakka boat. I'll be sticking as much ROF on it as I possibly can.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

theharrower wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
They really don't want to sell Repulsors... 210 base points before weapons? What a joke for a supposed main transport for Primaris.

You ain't kidding. With them restricting this to Primaris Marines only and there not really being a need to have Primaris marines in a transport as the Reivers can deep strike and such without one I don't see a point. I love the model, but not like I can stick Death Company or Vanguard Vets in there. At 210 without weapons and no 2+, I think it's a pass for me. I'll stick with my Land Raiders and Storm Ravens. Shame too. I think it looks great. Even better in Blood Angels red. Primaris for me is probably going to be a unit of Reivers, a unit of Intercessors with Stalker Bolters, and maybe a unit of Hellblasters.

Land raiders are absolute garbage because they do not have the fly keyword. This does. It also has more guns than a land-raider and -2 to charge distance. price being about the same at a loss of only -1 armor save seems reasonable.

**Lemondish**

Mandragola wrote:
I disagree. It's a Land raider analogue, not a rhino. The fly keyword alone makes a huge difference.

You get a mobile tank with 4 lascannons (effectively) and potms. You can stick a bunch of dakka on it too.

Transporting 10 Primaris gives you a few options. I do agree that there's no primaris option that obviouly lends itself to riding in a repulsor. Flamer-armed aggressors are possibly the best option, possibly backed up by a couple of characters. Hellblasters probably don't need it.

On the whole, storm ravens are probably better - because they are obviously underpriced. But repulsors do still give you a nice set of mobile firepower and transport capacity if you want it. They don't seem a useless unit to me - but neither do they seem all that great.

I'm with you on this. The Fly keyword alone makes them powerful as hell, and for cheaper than a LR base (unless I'm reading this wrong). Fly ensures they don't get bogged down in combat like a LR can (and does), and they reduce the chance of that even happening in the first place. Great Dakka boat, but also the only anti-tank options for Primaris only forces, if you're so inclined.

**Crimson**

Xenomancers wrote:

I think it's much better as a dakka boat. I'll be sticking as much ROF on it as I possibly can.

Possibly, but if you're running primaris only, it is your only option to get any serious anti armour firepower. (Not counting overcharged plasma here, they're only damage two after all.)

**Xenomancers**

Double post

**His Master's Voice**

Kirasu wrote:
They really don't want to sell Repulsors... 210 base points before weapons? What a joke for a supposed main transport for Primaris.

They have years to sell Repulsors, but only one chance to not piss off the SM player base. So far I think they're doing just fine.