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2017/12/30 23:50:25
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
We've never seen astrol projection like that before, it might be that projecting enough to have a physical effect on the world at one end has a similar effect on him at the other end. Ergo he can be shot a bazillion times to no harm, but during the fight his sabre and body clearly influence the world around him which might take its toll on his physical body.
Also my impression is that Luke is mentally burned out. We've seen that Jedi seem to have a very isolationist view of the world - Yoda, Ben, Luke - all went basically into hiding and isolate themselves. It seems that without a large body of other Jedi to keep things running, most Jedi will seek isolation.
So Luke spends decades isolated brooding his failure and likely having some feeling that all he fought for was being picked apart by politicians and all the good of the Republic was being ground down.
This is without considering the influence of the Dark Side also playing a part in things.
So I think in part Luke wanted to die; or at least to pass over. To end his torment. Sure that's not hte hero we once had, but I can see how the hero became the man that failed and that it tore him apart. When he saw Rey coming together I suspect he felt he could do more good as a guiding spirit than as a physical person everyone was hoping would sweep in and save everyone.
gorgon wrote: What I've been reflecting on is how the movie is a commentary on Luke Skywalker as a character...who also seems to represent the SW franchise as a whole. Ultimately, what Luke couldn't overcome were demands and expectations. It's an unwinnable fight. The movie even gives us an idealized Luke who seems to meet those expectations and be winning the unwinnable fight, until we're reminded that it's an impossible illusion. And in fact the effort to meet those expectations kills him, just as trying to service fans would ultimately kill the SW franchise.
Anyone who thinks like that has no business writing a Star Wars sequel, because not being that kind of bs is part of the reason why Star Wars was successful in the first place. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am saying that if Disney kills their $4 billion investment it will not be because they made movies that respected the themes and events of the original trilogy (because they haven't).
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2017/12/31 00:29:14
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
Compel wrote: Surely that would have gone down better?
Well sure, but should films be judged primarily on how easily they're digested?
It would have been easy enough to do any number of things to better serve fans...or at least some of them. Again, just look at the other big Disney franchise. I'm glad they didn't go that route though.
gorgon wrote: What I've been reflecting on is how the movie is a commentary on Luke Skywalker as a character...who also seems to represent the SW franchise as a whole. Ultimately, what Luke couldn't overcome were demands and expectations. It's an unwinnable fight. The movie even gives us an idealized Luke who seems to meet those expectations and be winning the unwinnable fight, until we're reminded that it's an impossible illusion. And in fact the effort to meet those expectations kills him, just as trying to service fans would ultimately kill the SW franchise.
Anyone who thinks like that has no business writing a Star Wars sequel, because not being that kind of bs is part of the reason why Star Wars was successful in the first place. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am saying that if Disney kills their $4 billion investment it will not be because they made movies that respected the themes and events of the original trilogy (because they haven't).
What does 'respecting themes and events' mean though? If you can provide a definition that means something other than fan service, I'd love to hear it.
TLJ is a creative work by a creative professional empowered by the studio to tell the story he wants to tell. He can break whatever eggs he wants. The SW universe isn't ours, and we don't get to say what the stories told in it 'should be' or 'need to be'. Personally, I'm glad for the gift of a SW film that I can actually chew on a little, instead of being the equivalent of a safe, predictable, mediocre meal at a chain restaurant. Maybe the flavors in TLJ weren't balanced, or perhaps he used too much or too little seasoning. But at least he tried to serve us something interesting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 00:44:41
On the other hand, using the food analogy, TLJ can be seen as going to a restaurant to order mac and cheese and getting boiled yak stomach because the chef thought you might like a surprise instead of a tired old favorite.
2017/12/31 01:20:06
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
But has anyone actually died from using too much force before?
Luminous beams are extremely deleterious to crude matter. Rocks, X-Wings, no different! Only Different in your mind! But don't push it by trying a frigate or something. Die you could.
gorgon wrote: What does 'respecting themes and events' mean though? If you can provide a definition that means something other than fan service, I'd love to hear it.
The most consistent theme of the original trilogy is "Don't abandon your friends and family." In the first movie, Han returns at the Rebellion's darkest hour to save Luke from Darth Vader, allowing him to destroy the Death Star. In the second movie, Luke rejects the teachings of the Jedi that demand that he abandon his attachments to his friends and instead goes to rescue them - he loses a hand in the process, but everyone except Han escape only because Luke brought R2D2 with him, and the movie ends as the mission to rescue Han from Jabba begins. In the third movie, rescuing Han from Jabba makes up the first act, and in the end the Emperor is destroyed because Luke again rejects the teachings of the Jedi and saves his father from the Dark Side.
What happens in the new trilogy? The first movie has undone Han's character development by having him abandon Leia and their son at their darkest hour, returning to smuggling instead. When he tries to redeem his son he is killed, achieving nothing. The second movie has undone Luke's character development by having him try to murder his nephew and then abandon the galaxy when he turned to the Dark Side. When he returns to save Leia and what's left of the Resistance Rian Johnson handles it in the worst way possible: he doesn't return in person, but he is killed for it anyway.
Imagine the sequel trilogy was being made by somebody who hated the original trilogy like Verhoeven hated Starship Troopers - how would you distinguish it from what Disney is currently making?
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2017/12/31 03:05:10
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
Characters don't just develop like levels in a computer game. People are fragile and can be broken as much as they can be built up. Han and Luke both suffered when Kylo turned to the dark. That fragile moment broke them all. Don't forget it wasn't just Kylo running away; he slaughtered the other (or at least multiple other as its hinted that he took several students with him) students. He did what Vader did, he became Vader. Even if for only a moment,.
Consider how crushing that is to have fought a huge war against a huge empire and a monster like Darth Vader only for your son/student to become that monster almost reborn.
It crushed Luke very fast, esp because he also fell to the Dark Side for that short moment and caused the fall of Kylo. Han it st rikes me took longer, but went into brooding and I guess one day just didn't fly back from whereever he went too.
To my mind those characters all developed along a very realistic and human pathway. Sure its not the classic "hero" pathway because that wasn't the story being told. Heck a huge part of Lukes attempted message is that he isn't a hero, he is just a man, he isn't some amazing hero from a story who can sweep in and save everyone
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 03:06:17
What happens in the new trilogy? The first movie has undone Han's character development by having him abandon Leia and their son at their darkest hour, returning to smuggling instead. When he tries to redeem his son he is killed, achieving nothing.
Alternatively, Han left Leia because he had come to the conclusion that she was better off without him, but returned at the time of the Resistance's darkest hour to help two people he had only just met, and then died trying to redeem his son, planting a seed of doubt in Kylo Ren's mind about his commitment to the Dark Side...
The second movie has undone Luke's character development by having him try to murder his nephew and then abandon the galaxy when he turned to the Dark Side. When he returns to save Leia and what's left of the Resistance Rian Johnson handles it in the worst way possible: he doesn't return in person, but he is killed for it anyway.
Except he didn't try to murder his nephew. He considered it momentarily, and that momentary weakness resulted in disaster. And the way Johnson handled it is perfect for Luke's character ... the guy who beat the Emperor by throwing his lightsaber away defeated Kylo Ren without laying a finger on him.
Imagine the sequel trilogy was being made by somebody who hated the original trilogy like Verhoeven hated Starship Troopers - how would you distinguish it from what Disney is currently making?
I imagine that it might involve some sort of nonsensical, convoluted political plot, a deconstructed Jedi Order led by idiots, some absolutely atrocious dialogue (say, maybe a love scene where someone tells someone else that they love them because they're nicer than sand), a redesign of Yoda into some sort of completely different (yellow!) species, an over-reliance on CGI and retconning the Force from some sort of binding energy field into a bacterial infection...
2017/12/31 06:24:02
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
I think I finally figured out what was really bugging me about this movie.
seeing lukes xwing at the bottom of the ocean.
so ok, luke sunk his ship because he didn't want to leave, but how did R2 get back to leia? Did luke take another astromech with him and just toss the new droid in the ocean with the ship? is that what freaked out R2 as he barely missed that fate?
If R2 did go with luke then he would have had the exact location for him.
This is the kind of sloppy writing and lack of understanding how things work in the star wars universe that had me eagerly awaiting the end of the movie so I could get out of there.
2017/12/31 06:45:32
Subject: Re:The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
Welp finally got around to seeing it. There were some really good parts in it, and there were parts I that were just a bit too cheesy. Part of me is mostly disappointed because the general plot managed to defy convention at various points, really dangling the "will they won't they" right until the ending but there were just too many cheesy moments that pulled me back with "wait seriously?" The most egregious for me actually is;
Spoiler:
When Rose stops Fin from Kamikazing the battering ram cannon, which by the way is a terrible name come on we could have done better than that. That whole scene was like, okay yey I'm kind of glad Fin is still alive but come on it looked like his whole blaze of glory thing was gonna work and maybe save everyone and you're what, saving him because all those rebels who died in the opening scene apparently weren't loved enough? Just kind of jarring to me. I think Fin and Rose's excellent adventure was easily the worst part of the film mostly because it was hammy even by Star Wars standards and felt kind of forced. Honestly it feels like they could have cut that whole section of the movie, and just said the Rebels didn't have enough fuel to jump away again after the Empire found them with a prove or patrol (or you know, had the Empire-like guys remember Interdictors exist) and had a much more compelling space fight aspect. That Ren blew up the entire fighter bay feels less like adding tension and more like saving the budget by not having an epic space battle...)
I love how Fin not only apparently knows the exact layout of Starkiller Base but Snokes ship too. This kid must have been the best damn sanitation worker in the whole first order. And then there's Rose who is apparently so unimportant that she's just working in the underbelly of the ship all the time but that doesn't stop her from instantly knowing how a once thought impossible technology works... And Rey now knows how to lift rocks and fight like a pro with a light saber after getting only 2 of 3 promised lessons from Luke, none of which were actually about lifting rocks or fighting with a lightsaber... Even I think they're starting to stretch things in this universe with how characters just know/are able to do things. And then there's Poe's plot which I think is actually the strongest part of the film but is undermined by the stupidity of its basic premise. What is so key about the escape plan that the Vice Admiral isn't telling one of all two hundred people on their about to be destroyed ship about it? Honestly if Poe hadn't tried to three man scheme his way to victory it would have probably worked and he wouldn't have tried to three man scheme his way to victory if he knew what the plan was. Not telling him seemed more like stupidity than preventing him from being a loose cannon cause not knowing and feeling like no one was doing anything was what made him shoot his loose canon in the first place.
Also the whole "hope" bit was hammered on there so much and so hard I just kind of started laughing at it. It's just weird watching this movie really slather on the idealistic optimism while acknowledge that the majority of the galaxy doesn't give enough of a damn to get involved, and when it does is mostly just double dealing to increase their profits. Kind of feels like a half-baked cop out from a darker plot presenting the entire conflict as fundamentally meaningless to the broader galaxy cause most people will just go on living regardless of who wins which conveniently fits in better with Luke's whole "the Jedi need to die" bit.
There's a lot I like in The Last Jedi (solid 7/10) but damn is there just some stupid stuff in there too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 06:49:35
So, I haven't seen it yet. However, I came across a review that pretty much sums up my fears. And it made me laugh like a little kid which is something I haven't done in a long time. Enjoy.
2017/12/31 07:31:40
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
Overread wrote: Also my impression is that Luke is mentally burned out. We've seen that Jedi seem to have a very isolationist view of the world - Yoda, Ben, Luke - all went basically into hiding and isolate themselves. It seems that without a large body of other Jedi to keep things running, most Jedi will seek isolation.
Yoda and Obi-Wan were alone because they were hiding from the Empire, not because Jedi are especially isolationist. They probably just find it easier to hide from Vader and Palpatine when they're alone on a backwater planet than when they're in public. Also probably want to avoid getting innocents killed if they are found.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/31 07:42:06
2017/12/31 09:13:51
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
I get the feeling that allot of the pointless side stuff an weirdness may have been an effort from Disney to appeal to the Chinese market.
Vaguely curious... why would the pointless side stuff and weirdness appeal to Chinese audiences?
The whole badly tagged on Rose plot/character who is shocked to encounter slavery and gambling, in a galaxy where it seems common enough, at the hands of perfidious weapons dealing capitalists. It’s beautiful in it’s ham-fisted design to both appeal to Chinese censors and the poor barstards that live with it.
Despite my Attempts to avoid spoilers I did see one interview with the lady that plays Rose and it sounds like she has been publicising the film for about six months across Asia prior to release. It really shows the limits of Disney’s creative thinking and it’s cynical marketing through the product rather than because of it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/31 09:47:50
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
2017/12/31 09:38:03
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
I get the feeling that allot of the pointless side stuff an weirdness may have been an effort from Disney to appeal to the Chinese market.
Vaguely curious... why would the pointless side stuff and weirdness appeal to Chinese audiences?
The whole badly tagged on Rose plot/character who is shocked to encounter slavery and gambling, in a galaxy where it seems common enough, at the hands of perfidious weapons dealing capitalists. It’s beautiful in it’s ham-fisted design to both appeal to Chinese censors and the poor barstards that live with it.
Despite my Attempts to avoid spoilers I did see one interview with the lady that plays Rose and it sounds like she has been publicising the film for about six months across Asia prior to release. It really shows the limits of Disney’s creative thinking and it’s cynical marketing through the product rather than because of it.
The themes of right/wrong and helping to propagate wars (as generally being a bad thing), of fighting for something you believe in it is, vs the futility of it, are themes running throughout the film and not just restricted to that part of it. I don't think the scene was put in just to appeal to Chinese censors, even though I did think it was one of the weaker areas of the film.
Asia is a massive market for Hollywood - even Arnold Schwarzenegger went on tour for Terminator Genisys, then you read that the film made as much in asia as it did the rest of the world and you realise why as it stopped the film studio from making such a loss on what would otherwise have been a box office disaster. When you've got a market of 500 million middle class or whatever it is now out in China then a voracious marketing animal like Disney is always going to have to give some thought to pleasing that market (although hopefully it only goes as far as not having a plot line of an evil general Chang, with his army of chinobots trying to destroy freedom Capitalism)
When I lived out in S Korea it was pretty common to have Hollywood actors on TV shows, quite often looking bemused and probably wondering whether they should change their manager, although in this case it presumably made sense to use the Asian actor (in the same way that Matt Damon was used as a hook in the west for that Great Wall film)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/31 10:49:52
Yeah it's weird. I enjoyed it a lot, and usually films with that much wonky stuff twerk me way to much for me to enjoy it but I did. The parts I liked I just liked. I seem to have had an opposite reaction to Luke's arc from a lot of people (I thought it was very good and fitting). I thought that on the whole Rey and Poe's arcs were good, if filled with cheesy nonsense and questionable underpinnings and while I didn't like Fin's arc because it seemed pointless I do still like Fin. Out of the three actors portraying the new MC's I like John Boyega the most. Most of the cheesy nonsense is stuff I'm used to from Star Wars, so I guess I'm not as put off by it as normal even though far more attention was called to it than normal.
So for me I guess that's a 7/10, which to me is "It's fun but I'll probably only watch it when it happens to be on TV."
EDIT: Honestly the winner for movies I saw for the first time this week is Jumangi: Welcome to the Jungle. There was no point in that movie where I wasn't amused and enjoying myself and it even shocked my by turning the ditzy blonde played by Jack Black into my favorite character!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 10:56:06
gorgon wrote: I liked it, and I think I'll probably like it more the more I think about it.
I've been the opposite. I liked it more as the credits rolled and less as time has gone on.
That said I still like it and will probably see it again when it comes out on bluray/itunes/TV/whatever.
Well, I think that no creative work can stand up to certain types of reflection and dissection (not saying that you're doing that, just that some of that is definitely going on out there with TLJ).
I think for me I liked it more when I watched it simply because of the world they created which can draw me in to an otherwise bad or mediocre movie, but when the stories and character arcs within the movie fall flat it wears off pretty quick.
Things like Luke feeling out of character, Rey being a shallow character and all the plot absurdities aren't likely to make me jump up and storm out of the cinema, but they do leave a bad taste in my mouth afterwards.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 11:39:51
2017/12/31 12:36:01
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
The more I think about TLJ the more I dislike the fight in the throne room. Ray is very powerful with her lightsaber. Kilo is weak in that whole fight. (Which makes Ray look even stronger.) But what really bothers me is, Kilo is a "powerful" force user as shown in TFA. Why wasn't he using the force to win that fight. And how many of those red ninjas were there in that room? Seemed like a never ending supply of red ninjas.
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.
2017/12/31 13:08:24
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
I'm fairly sure Kylo utterly dominates most of the guard while Rey struggles with just one or two (Chain Guy and Two Swords). He's grappled at the end but until then, acquits himself very well against four guys at once.
2017/12/31 13:50:42
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
Why would a powerful Jedi even use a lightsaber, when they could just use the force to destroy entire rooms?
I think the Force takes more endurance than most realise to use effectively. So yes you could start throwing the people around, but at the same time you'd lose your endurance fast. So they might take out one or two and then suddenly you've hardly got the strength to lift your lightsabre.
Concentration might also be a factor, the heat of battle and rush of adrenaline could make it very hard to control Force powers. In fact when you think of it we rarely see Force Powers used in battle.
It could also just be training "you use Force here and here, but here you use the light sabre"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Overread wrote: Also my impression is that Luke is mentally burned out. We've seen that Jedi seem to have a very isolationist view of the world - Yoda, Ben, Luke - all went basically into hiding and isolate themselves. It seems that without a large body of other Jedi to keep things running, most Jedi will seek isolation.
Yoda and Obi-Wan were alone because they were hiding from the Empire, not because Jedi are especially isolationist. They probably just find it easier to hide from Vader and Palpatine when they're alone on a backwater planet than when they're in public. Also probably want to avoid getting innocents killed if they are found.
Thing is they don't just go into hiding, they go into a full hermit mode level of hiding. When you see how key the are in the War and in the Jedi order before the rise of the Empire you are kind of left wondering why a character like Yoda doesn't just go into hiding but totally isolates himself when, at the point he went into hiding, he was one of the key leaders.
It's a curious observation we only really get after the three prequel films because its a side of him we never saw. In the original 3 he was an old, wise teacher rather than someone who led armies, dealt with politics and was a major leader.
notprop wrote:
The whole badly tagged on Rose plot/character who is shocked to encounter slavery and gambling, in a galaxy where it seems common enough, at the hands of perfidious weapons dealing capitalists. It’s beautiful in it’s ham-fisted design to both appeal to Chinese censors and the poor barstards that live with it.
I don't know if slavery is common enough, when you consider how big the Galaxy is its perfectly possible for characters to be raised on a world, like Naboo, where slavery just wouldn't even enter into their minds as a thing. If she grew up on one of the more core worlds (which by and large seem to be more what we'd consider civilized) then slavery at least might not be a thing.
I do agree that the leaving the Cruiser to find the hacker part was a bit ham-fisted. I still swing back to the view that a spy on the cruiser should have been a plot aspect and thus a stronger desire to keep everyone on that single ship to find the spy before letting anyone escape (otherwise why not throw a few leaders onto different transports and at least have them escape - esp since the Empire seems totally committed to just going after the main ship)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 14:03:16
I woke have been quite interested in there being a spy plotline. You could have had something like Rose discovering a transmitter and Finn being assigned to search for it with her because he obviously can't be the spy cause he was unconcious the whole time.
Then have an adventure for them inside the cruiser. Because spaceships are big.
2017/12/31 14:33:54
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
Overread wrote: Also my impression is that Luke is mentally burned out. We've seen that Jedi seem to have a very isolationist view of the world - Yoda, Ben, Luke - all went basically into hiding and isolate themselves. It seems that without a large body of other Jedi to keep things running, most Jedi will seek isolation.
Yoda and Obi-Wan were alone because they were hiding from the Empire, not because Jedi are especially isolationist. They probably just find it easier to hide from Vader and Palpatine when they're alone on a backwater planet than when they're in public. Also probably want to avoid getting innocents killed if they are found.
Thing is they don't just go into hiding, they go into a full hermit mode level of hiding.
Going hermit mode hiding makes sense because they're force users, they need to go somewhere that they both can't be found by conventional means nor "sensed" by Vader and Palpatine. Wasn't there some story about Yoda choosing Dagobah because it has some force juju that helps him hide his presence from Palpatine and Vader? Similar to how Luke in TLJ is on an island which has some magical dark side cave.
When you see how key the are in the War and in the Jedi order before the rise of the Empire you are kind of left wondering why a character like Yoda doesn't just go into hiding but totally isolates himself when, at the point he went into hiding, he was one of the key leaders.
Because at that stage they've lost, Yoda decides to go somewhere the Empire is unlikely to accidentally find him. The odd one is Obi Wan, it doesn't really make sense why he took Luke to Tatooine because surely there'd be a chance Vader would be drawn back there for whatever reason given that's where he grew up, and while it is an out of the way planet it's still a populated one.
When Palpatine and Vader started hunting Jedi, my understanding was many of them did start leading resistance armies and fight back, they were just all killed and the only two that remained are the ones who decided to go in to hermit mode to stay hidden instead. At the start of A New Hope that's all we have; the couple of Jedi that decided to go deep underground.
At least that's my understanding, I don't know much SW lore outside of the movies and the odd video game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 14:35:47
2017/12/31 14:37:42
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
sirlynchmob wrote: I think I finally figured out what was really bugging me about this movie.
seeing lukes xwing at the bottom of the ocean.
so ok, luke sunk his ship because he didn't want to leave, but how did R2 get back to leia? Did luke take another astromech with him and just toss the new droid in the ocean with the ship? is that what freaked out R2 as he barely missed that fate?
If R2 did go with luke then he would have had the exact location for him.
This is the kind of sloppy writing and lack of understanding how things work in the star wars universe that had me eagerly awaiting the end of the movie so I could get out of there.
I imagine Luke programmed his final destination into R2's databanks, then left him behind somewhere that the Resistance might find him.
What bothers me more is why would Luke leave a map behind to lead the Resistance to his location in the first place if he doesn't want to be found and he came to Achto to die?
LordofHats wrote: When Rose stops Fin from Kamikazing the battering ram cannon, which by the way is a terrible name come on we could have done better than that.
How about..."The Nutcracker".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 14:39:04
2017/12/31 15:41:30
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
I don't think Luke left a map on purpose, I think it's more that Han/Leia figured out he was seeking out the temple on Ach-To and so went to find a map to where that was (ie. from old data R2 pulled on the Death Star and from ancient maps that would have featured the Temple. That could be what the map Lor San Tekka gave to Poe was, data recorded before The Empire started wiping information on the Jedi.
2017/12/31 16:29:23
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
sirlynchmob wrote: I think I finally figured out what was really bugging me about this movie.
seeing lukes xwing at the bottom of the ocean.
so ok, luke sunk his ship because he didn't want to leave, but how did R2 get back to leia? Did luke take another astromech with him and just toss the new droid in the ocean with the ship? is that what freaked out R2 as he barely missed that fate?
If R2 did go with luke then he would have had the exact location for him.
This is the kind of sloppy writing and lack of understanding how things work in the star wars universe that had me eagerly awaiting the end of the movie so I could get out of there.
I imagine Luke programmed his final destination into R2's databanks, then left him behind somewhere that the Resistance might find him.
What bothers me more is why would Luke leave a map behind to lead the Resistance to his location in the first place if he doesn't want to be found and he came to Achto to die?
LordofHats wrote: When Rose stops Fin from Kamikazing the battering ram cannon, which by the way is a terrible name come on we could have done better than that.
How about..."The Nutcracker".
Wasn't Luke on the planet of the Original Jedi Temple? (Not to be confused with Orginal Rey's.). Do they not have any history books or files from the 25,000 years of republic before the Empire? Or did Luke somehow delete the knowledge of one of the galaxy's most important historic sites?
Well one fallen Jedi (Dooku) managed to delete an entire planet (Kamino) from the Jedi Archives so I imagine its impossible for planets to slip through the cracks.
2017/12/31 17:10:41
Subject: The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within
Paradigm wrote: I don't think Luke left a map on purpose, I think it's more that Han/Leia figured out he was seeking out the temple on Ach-To and so went to find a map to where that was (ie. from old data R2 pulled on the Death Star and from ancient maps that would have featured the Temple. That could be what the map Lor San Tekka gave to Poe was, data recorded before The Empire started wiping information on the Jedi.
Nope. In TFA it was specifically a map that Luke left. It even had a path tracing his route to the planet.
Of course, the problem in TFA's map plot was that the fragment in the basketball droid was big enough to locate him without the other piece- it was quite large and had at least a dozen systems shown, which they should have been able to load into a 'navi-computer' and get a destination, even if it took a couple days.
On the other side of things, the first order is apparently big enough that swarming the missing section of the map and exhaustively searching it should have been a thing they were doing,
@Bobtheinwuisitor- historical records really don't stand up that well over that kind of time period. Lost, destroyed, apocryphal, or hidden, there are plenty of reasons for that not to be known. Especially with the Jedi temple going all aflame at the end of the prequels. It begs the question of how Luke found out about it, however.
