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Absolutely amazing!!! I am definatly impressed!

Time to drop in a bunch of caps on the Forge World, I guess... SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!

Altruizine wrote:
This theory makes so little sense that I'm wondering if you mis-typed your belief.

People can easily use Guard models in Necromunda, precisely because something like a 4:1 lasgun:plasmagun gang is a perfectly viable Necromunda gang. Guard also have most of the other special and heavy weapon options available in Necromunda covered.

How does FW botching the weapon packs with a lack of lasguns prevent lasgun-rich 40K kits from being used for Necromunda? I don't understand your claim at all.

You're quite right, I posted it utterly bass-ackwards.

I think the restricted las/autoguns are an effort to discourage you from using Necromunda models as Guard/Cultists. You can do it, of course, but you'll need a box of Necromunda minis and a FW upgrade sprue, at the least, to make 10 Guard/Cultists, which is likely at least double the price you'd pay for ten Cadians/Catachans.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I think the restricted las/autoguns are an effort to discourage you from using Necromunda models as Guard/Cultists. You can do it, of course, but you'll need a box of Necromunda minis and a FW upgrade sprue, at the least, to make 10 Guard/Cultists, which is likely at least double the price you'd pay for ten Cadians/Catachans.

Why tho?

It doesn't frakking matter if you buy IG box, or Munda box, it's still money for GW. Hell, seeind Munda boxes are more expensive, more money for GW. And seeing IG is the most often pirated/plagiarized/"inspired" GW range, they should be encouraging people seeking alternative to ancient IG models to hit up GW offerings more, not less.

I know I looked at Van Saar to see if I can make technologically advanced IG squad, and would have grabbed at least 2-3 boxes, then I saw not only lack of enough lasguns, but also by far most idiotic GW decision made with the whole Munda range - half-guns rendering leftover bits absolutely useless for conversions of other models, and noped out of there faster than you can say "FW has the most fair prices ever". Why all the other gangs have complete bits, and the one with most desirable look has complete junk?

The van saar sprues make 5 models, have 5 rifle style holdy arms and have 6 recognizably lasgun fronts as well as a plasma front and bits for a laspistol and cc wielding sergeant. Bits usage aside, you can easily field a 10 person Guard squad from that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could do it with escher as well with 6 lasguns and 2 auto guns alongside the chem.thrower as a flamer and a CC sergeant.

You could.make a good.go.with Cawdor as well.as long as you include the weird halberd guns to.count as normal autoguns as lasgun equivalents.

Orlock, delaque and Goliath not so.much as they each really go in for pistols and shotguns and weird stuff. But then Goliaths are on 32mm bases anyway so aren't really suited as guard equivalents. Having said that, the difference between the Orlock combat shotguns and drum fed autoguns is pretty minimal so again, could be easily used as a guard squad armed with auto weapons.

 Irbis wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I think the restricted las/autoguns are an effort to discourage you from using Necromunda models as Guard/Cultists. You can do it, of course, but you'll need a box of Necromunda minis and a FW upgrade sprue, at the least, to make 10 Guard/Cultists, which is likely at least double the price you'd pay for ten Cadians/Catachans.

Why tho?

It doesn't frakking matter if you buy IG box, or Munda box, it's still money for GW. Hell, seeind Munda boxes are more expensive, more money for GW. And seeing IG is the most often pirated/plagiarized/"inspired" GW range, they should be encouraging people seeking alternative to ancient IG models to hit up GW offerings more, not less.

I know I looked at Van Saar to see if I can make technologically advanced IG squad, and would have grabbed at least 2-3 boxes, then I saw not only lack of enough lasguns, but also by far most idiotic GW decision made with the whole Munda range - half-guns rendering leftover bits absolutely useless for conversions of other models, and noped out of there faster than you can say "FW has the most fair prices ever". Why all the other gangs have complete bits, and the one with most desirable look has complete junk?

I honestly can't support it with anything approaching logic beyond that already laid out. I also believe that this is why the new Necromunda models are just ever so slightly off-scale compared to Cadians/Catachans, FWIW.

It's just the impression I get. Maybe they want accurate figures on Faction sales, see what's profitable and what's less so? I don't know. Like with the Delaque weapons, new GW doesn't seem to value creativity much. It's all 'buy those, glue them like this, paint them like that'. It doesn't seem to me like they want us to play around with kitbashes and 'counts-as'; I reckon as an over-reaction to the ChapterHouse thing and their (apparent) continued refusal to hire a competent IP lawyer.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have an Escher gang, you can't make a legally-armed Infantry Squad/Miitia/Cultist unit just with one box. YMMV, but I could not in good conscience arm a mini that carries a lasgun with anything but a lasgun, even if the other weapon is functionally identical in-game.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

I honestly can't support it with anything approaching logic beyond that already laid out. I also believe that this is why the new Necromunda models are just ever so slightly off-scale compared to Cadians/Catachans, FWIW.

They have slightly different proportions because they're newer models.

I have an Escher gang, you can't make a legally-armed Infantry Squad/Miitia/Cultist unit just with one box. YMMV, but I could not in good conscience arm a mini that carries a lasgun with anything but a lasgun, even if the other weapon is functionally identical in-game.

Yes you can! I am a WYSIWYG fanatic, but if the rules are the same, then you can use either model to represent the profile. Like my Primaris Reivers are converted to have chainswords because it has the same rules than their combat knives.

Little bit bummed that they are departing from the not Arbites, but I'm sure they will be cool. Wonder if the basic kir will include cyber hounds
.

No news about the Juves (Special this little boys and girls), champs or Leaders miniatures? :(

They've put an Arbites teaser up (no pics)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=061UkPgp4Tg&t=0s

If they are quoting for lord helmer, then its enforcers rather than arbites isn't it?

 Flinty wrote:
If they are quoting for lord helmer, then its enforcers rather than arbites isn't it?

Yeah it’s Enforcers. Someone shouted Arbites in the seminar and Andy Hoare was quick to correct them to Enforcers.

 Flinty wrote:
If they are quoting for lord helmer, then its enforcers rather than arbites isn't it?

They have always said they would do an enforcers gang and not arbites. A lot of people get them confused.

Either way I forsee many a new guard regiment coming into existance...

 Flinty wrote:
The van saar sprues make 5 models, have 5 rifle style holdy arms and have 6 recognizably lasgun fronts as well as a plasma front and bits for a laspistol and cc wielding sergeant. Bits usage aside, you can easily field a 10 person Guard squad from that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could do it with escher as well with 6 lasguns and 2 auto guns alongside the chem.thrower as a flamer and a CC sergeant.

You could.make a good.go.with Cawdor as well.as long as you include the weird halberd guns to.count as normal autoguns as lasgun equivalents.

Orlock, delaque and Goliath not so.much as they each really go in for pistols and shotguns and weird stuff. But then Goliaths are on 32mm bases anyway so aren't really suited as guard equivalents. Having said that, the difference between the Orlock combat shotguns and drum fed autoguns is pretty minimal so again, could be easily used as a guard squad armed with auto weapons.

Technically, if you squint enough, yes (even started looking at Delaque considering just saying 'screw it' and counting every single vaguely rifle-like gun as lasgun) but my main issue with Van Saar is the fact unlike all the other gangs, you not only need to fiddle with gluing together tiny gun bits, a design decision I absolutely despise, what you're left at the end it pile of useless plastic waste while all the other gangs leave you with useful bits you can give to IG or SM for variety. I hate the VS sprue so much I refuse to support it at all, even though I love the futuristic (while still 40K) look.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
It's just the impression I get. Maybe they want accurate figures on Faction sales, see what's profitable and what's less so? I don't know. Like with the Delaque weapons, new GW doesn't seem to value creativity much. It's all 'buy those, glue them like this, paint them like that'. It doesn't seem to me like they want us to play around with kitbashes and 'counts-as'; I reckon as an over-reaction to the ChapterHouse thing and their (apparent) continued refusal to hire a competent IP lawyer.

If so, why 40K youtube channel had so many kitbash/converting videos in the last months? Though I suppose it might be WC team doing their own thing without consulting whoever makes production and sale decisions.

Yikes, sorry folk arbites have no time for underhive scum's drama. If they got a release it will be a 40k release as a faction.

The Arbites administer Imperium Laws on the noble houses, governors, megacorps, shipping families etc. Enforcers administer the local laws on the populace.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Like with the Delaque weapons, new GW doesn't seem to value creativity much. It's all 'buy those, glue them like this, paint them like that'. It doesn't seem to me like they want us to play around with kitbashes and 'counts-as'; I reckon as an over-reaction to the ChapterHouse thing and their (apparent) continued refusal to hire a competent IP lawyer.

No, they're providing plenty of options if you don't want to convert or don't feel comfortable doing so. There's no evidence that they don't want anyone to convert models, and in fact their social media and magazine articles would imply the opposite conclusion.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have an Escher gang, you can't make a legally-armed Infantry Squad/Miitia/Cultist unit just with one box. YMMV, but I could not in good conscience arm a mini that carries a lasgun with anything but a lasgun, even if the other weapon is functionally identical in-game.

So what? If I buy an Imperial Guard infantry squad I can't make a unit of Free Peoples archers for Age of Sigmar out of it either. The Escher sprue already includes three lasguns (so six in a box in total). You think they should have made the sprue contents even less varied - compromising their primary use? Necromunda already has too much tedious "optimal weapon" spam as it is.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The Arbites administer Imperium Laws on the noble houses, governors, megacorps, shipping families etc. Enforcers administer the local laws on the populace.

Let's be fair here: Enforcers are brutes, shake-down crew, and legitimised criminals.

They do what the local big-wings pay them to. Judge Dredd they are not.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The Arbites administer Imperium Laws on the noble houses, governors, megacorps, shipping families etc. Enforcers administer the local laws on the populace.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Enforcers ... do what the local big-wings pay them to.

You're both saying the same thing.

The Enforcers - at least in Hive Primus - have been described as basically House Helmawr's private militia. In that respect, they're no different to the gangs of the Great Houses that we already have.

 Irbis wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
The van saar sprues make 5 models, have 5 rifle style holdy arms and have 6 recognizably lasgun fronts as well as a plasma front and bits for a laspistol and cc wielding sergeant. Bits usage aside, you can easily field a 10 person Guard squad from that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could do it with escher as well with 6 lasguns and 2 auto guns alongside the chem.thrower as a flamer and a CC sergeant.

You could.make a good.go.with Cawdor as well.as long as you include the weird halberd guns to.count as normal autoguns as lasgun equivalents.

Orlock, delaque and Goliath not so.much as they each really go in for pistols and shotguns and weird stuff. But then Goliaths are on 32mm bases anyway so aren't really suited as guard equivalents. Having said that, the difference between the Orlock combat shotguns and drum fed autoguns is pretty minimal so again, could be easily used as a guard squad armed with auto weapons.

Technically, if you squint enough, yes (even started looking at Delaque considering just saying 'screw it' and counting every single vaguely rifle-like gun as lasgun) but my main issue with Van Saar is the fact unlike all the other gangs, you not only need to fiddle with gluing together tiny gun bits, a design decision I absolutely despise, what you're left at the end it pile of useless plastic waste while all the other gangs leave you with useful bits you can give to IG or SM for variety. I hate the VS sprue so much I refuse to support it at all, even though I love the futuristic (while still 40K) look.

I do understand the annoyance. However, taking this route allows space for more flexibility for the gang itself. I count 7 multi-use weapon arms, 3 pistols.and 4 rifles, and 13 weapon fronts. That's a pretty good haul that wouldn't have been possible otherwise. Guess you're building lots of gun fighters, you should.still.end up.with a couple.of arms that can be built up into spare weapons for donation to other causes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm... having had another look at some of the other sprues, what this has permitted is a few more random technological Gibbons to be added to the sprues.

The main way I could see Arbites appearing in Necromunda is as a single model operating as a hired gun/hanger-on equivalent for Enforcers- an Arbites Liason or something. There to look for potential recruits, get some live-fire training, sniffing around an unusual lead linking to a crime uphive, tutoring the Enforcer squad, etc. A single Arbites attached to an Enforcers unit for whatever reason makes a lot more sense than a whole squad of them, and they need some kind of hired gun options for the Enforcers.

If you want an Arbites in the Underhive, I'd say including one as a GM-controlled 3rd party in a Ghast Harvest scenario, or one where a player is using a psyker; especially where one player is actually using an Enforcers gang.

Quote from the ”Book of Judgement”, Warhammer 40,000: Dark Heresy Roleplay, (suggested reading for Andy Hoare and others):
”The objectives of local Enforcers and Imperial Arbitrators often overlap, and the two work in conjunction when it is mutually beneficial. However, there are also occasions when they come into direct conflict.
In practice, the Arbitrators are tasked to punish criminal activity, root out cultists and illegal gatherings, eliminate organised gangs, and are often unleashed en mass to quell riots.”

Also, a rumour of somebody in the underhive having access to a STC, running a government funded drug operation, selling off equipment ment for the PDF/AM, handling xenos tech or beasts, stealing mining robots thus sabotaging the planetary tithe, etc. would probably justify a AA task force...

I am still hoping for a kit that lets you build real Adeptus Arbites.

Everyone knows what an arbite is like. But is there a drawing of how is an enforcer?

zamerion wrote:
Everyone knows what an arbite is like. But is there a drawing of how is an enforcer?

The post 2000 Necromunda law enforcement figures were released as Enforcers rather than Arbites and were called Enforcers on the catalogue page. There are also Arbites on the same page:

http://www.solegends.com/citcat2006us/c2006usp0936-00.htm

T

timd wrote:

zamerion wrote:
Everyone knows what an arbite is like. But is there a drawing of how is an enforcer?

The post 2000 Necromunda law enforcement figures were released as Enforcers rather than Arbites and were called Enforcers on the catalogue page. There are also Arbites on the same page:

http://www.solegends.com/citcat2006us/c2006usp0936-00.htm

T

This.

Enforcers are a catch all for the local police, which could include several levels, the Governor's enforcers, the local lord/baron/mayor/whatever or even the factory security/goons/thugs/whatever.

Arbites are Imperial, answer to the High Lords and are recruited and trained from another world so they have no local ties.

Kill 100 underhivers with your chainsaw hands - local matter.

Drop a candy wrapper in front of the Imperial Cathedral - Arbites matter.

However the 2000s Fantatic release said that Necromunda enforcers are deliberately made to look like Arbites. So hopefully they can pull double duty.

Not that it matters since there is no Codex Adeptus Arbites to conform to. You'd still end up using them as Marine Scouts, Storm Troopers or Krieg Engineers.

While the previous fluff for the Enforcers was that they deliberately aped the Arbites look, I think that was just so they could use some models that had originally been sculpted as actual Arbites and then never used for that purpose. Various members of the Specialist Games staff have said that any new Enforcers probably won't look like that. In addition, the Enforcers can differ from one hive to another, IIRC, depending on who precisely they answer to and are equipped by.

Enforcers that don't look like Enforcers to go with my Delaques that don't look like Delaques.

Cool.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Enforcers that don't look like Enforcers to go with my Delaques that don't look like Delaques.

Cool.

Enforcers that look how Enforcers should, ie their own thing, rather than being a zero-effort rebranding of unreleased Arbites models(likely test sculpts considering they're...not brilliant). These are supposed to be the personal thugs of the planetary governor, they deserve something better than Arbites knockoffs.

And hey, given the way 40K is going, soon you'll be able to get actual plastic Arbites to use as totes-not-Arbites-honest-guv Enforcers if that's really your jam.

... or they could release a dual purpose kit based on the *brilliant* Jes Goodwyn 2nd edition Adeptus Arbites - so we can build both real Arbites (for Necro, Kill Team, Blackstone and 40k) and local wannabes...

This would sell 100 X an Enforcer pack...