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2018/07/16 13:51:37
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Hey guys,
I've been play testing a Kid list for an upcoming 1750pt tournament, mainly against my buddy's Tau. Although I've been winning the odd game due to lucky objective draws, my army basically gets wiped by turn 3, leaving me to hide with some rippers until the game ends. My list is as follows:
The list my friend is running is roughly the following:
2x Commanders w/ Ion Blasters
2x Cadre Fireblades
1x Longstrike
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
2x Riptide
5x Pathfinders
5x Pathfinders
2x Hammerhead: Ion Cannon
The issue I'm having is that the Commanders, Riptides, and Hammerheads blow apart my Hive Tyrants and the triple-firing Strike Teams rip apart my Genestealers. The only real threat that I have is the Hive Guard squad, but they can only hide out of sight for so long (and sometimes they can't). My opponent's use of Markerlights is top notch, as he always gets one or two priority targets up to 5 Markerlights and then takes it down.
Any advice on my list, or perhaps tactics vs Tau. My feeling is just that it's a hard match up for Nids, as they are just so good at taking out monsters and hordes. But maybe I'm missing something.
TonyH122 wrote: Hey guys,
I've been play testing a Kid list for an upcoming 1750pt tournament, mainly against my buddy's Tau. Although I've been winning the odd game due to lucky objective draws, my army basically gets wiped by turn 3, leaving me to hide with some rippers until the game ends. My list is as follows:
The list my friend is running is roughly the following:
2x Commanders w/ Ion Blasters
2x Cadre Fireblades
1x Longstrike
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
2x Riptide
5x Pathfinders
5x Pathfinders
2x Hammerhead: Ion Cannon
The issue I'm having is that the Commanders, Riptides, and Hammerheads blow apart my Hive Tyrants and the triple-firing Strike Teams rip apart my Genestealers. The only real threat that I have is the Hive Guard squad, but they can only hide out of sight for so long (and sometimes they can't). My opponent's use of Markerlights is top notch, as he always gets one or two priority targets up to 5 Markerlights and then takes it down.
Any advice on my list, or perhaps tactics vs Tau. My feeling is just that it's a hard match up for Nids, as they are just so good at taking out monsters and hordes. But maybe I'm missing something.
Well, you're not wrong Tau have always been a thorn in the Hive's side. One thing I would do differant is having some plain old Gaunts. Even your Termagants are "elite" "Devilgants". I think a Brood of Hormagaunts will make things much better. Sad as it is I would trim some Stealers to find the points. Good luck! And good hunting!
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2018/07/16 19:22:23
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
TonyH122 wrote: Hey guys,
I've been play testing a Kid list for an upcoming 1750pt tournament, mainly against my buddy's Tau. Although I've been winning the odd game due to lucky objective draws, my army basically gets wiped by turn 3, leaving me to hide with some rippers until the game ends. My list is as follows:
The list my friend is running is roughly the following:
2x Commanders w/ Ion Blasters
2x Cadre Fireblades
1x Longstrike
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
2x Riptide
5x Pathfinders
5x Pathfinders
2x Hammerhead: Ion Cannon
The issue I'm having is that the Commanders, Riptides, and Hammerheads blow apart my Hive Tyrants and the triple-firing Strike Teams rip apart my Genestealers. The only real threat that I have is the Hive Guard squad, but they can only hide out of sight for so long (and sometimes they can't). My opponent's use of Markerlights is top notch, as he always gets one or two priority targets up to 5 Markerlights and then takes it down.
Any advice on my list, or perhaps tactics vs Tau. My feeling is just that it's a hard match up for Nids, as they are just so good at taking out monsters and hordes. But maybe I'm missing something.
Its a strong list, the issue is you have no -1 shrouding. Drop a flyrant, drop Kronos relic ( I tried it a tourney, didnt do gak over 5 games, take the HVN or just take regular gone and save the CP). take a Malanthrope or Venomthropes. If you are going ITC, drop the GS to x19, save both for T2 deep strike for REcon or behind enemy lines as needed. Make the Devilgants x19 all with Devourers, you should have some extra points, take more hive guard or a dakkafex with enhanced senses, spore cist and put him in Kronos. Move the devilgants to kronos, move a unit of rippers to kraken.
Something like this, not exactly sure on the points but its close, If needed trim/rebalance the gant weaons to fleshborers.
TonyH122 wrote: Hey guys,
I've been play testing a Kid list for an upcoming 1750pt tournament, mainly against my buddy's Tau. Although I've been winning the odd game due to lucky objective draws, my army basically gets wiped by turn 3, leaving me to hide with some rippers until the game ends. My list is as follows:
The list my friend is running is roughly the following:
2x Commanders w/ Ion Blasters
2x Cadre Fireblades
1x Longstrike
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
2x Riptide
5x Pathfinders
5x Pathfinders
2x Hammerhead: Ion Cannon
The issue I'm having is that the Commanders, Riptides, and Hammerheads blow apart my Hive Tyrants and the triple-firing Strike Teams rip apart my Genestealers. The only real threat that I have is the Hive Guard squad, but they can only hide out of sight for so long (and sometimes they can't). My opponent's use of Markerlights is top notch, as he always gets one or two priority targets up to 5 Markerlights and then takes it down.
Any advice on my list, or perhaps tactics vs Tau. My feeling is just that it's a hard match up for Nids, as they are just so good at taking out monsters and hordes. But maybe I'm missing something.
You are offering too many high value targets to the enemy pulse rifles, while at the same time not providing any hit penalty. Going full on glasscannons against Tau is not a good idea.
2018/07/17 05:35:04
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Well, I'm relieved to know that it's not just me struggling against Tau. I'd be super happy to put some of Carnipuppies into the list, but 1750 is such an amazingly annoying points level. Hard to put in everything you want for a nice rounded list.
As for what Carnifexes, do we think quad Devourers or scything talons?
TonyH122 wrote: Well, I'm relieved to know that it's not just me struggling against Tau. I'd be super happy to put some of Carnipuppies into the list, but 1750 is such an amazingly annoying points level. Hard to put in everything you want for a nice rounded list.
As for what Carnifexes, do we think quad Devourers or scything talons?
Quad Devourers, Deathspitters, or 2x of either and a Heavy Venom Cannon would be best.
Versus tau if you take Swarmlord and can get a guarenteed T1 charge is good (even on Hammer and Anvil deployments) otherwise you can regularly get both GS units on a charge T1 with Kraken and Swarmlord.
Catalyst them, shroud them, charge with that unit first (this shroud will make his 5's on overwatch go back to 6's). Then pile in and lock up as many units as possible. Make sure to position appropriately to consolidate into other units where able.
ANother thing to do is charge something with a high save value first like a flyrant to let him use his high Armor and Invul save to soak up all the overwatch fire.
once you get that first unit in, even if they die the pressure is on, and you can now close in with the rest of the force.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Dynas wrote: Versus tau if you take Swarmlord and can get a guarenteed T1 charge is good (even on Hammer and Anvil deployments) otherwise you can regularly get both GS units on a charge T1 with Kraken and Swarmlord.
Catalyst them, shroud them, charge with that unit first (this shroud will make his 5's on overwatch go back to 6's). Then pile in and lock up as many units as possible. Make sure to position appropriately to consolidate into other units where able.
ANother thing to do is charge something with a high save value first like a flyrant to let him use his high Armor and Invul save to soak up all the overwatch fire.
once you get that first unit in, even if they die the pressure is on, and you can now close in with the rest of the force.
No modifiers apply in Overwatch, T'au sept will ALWAYS hit on 5 regardless of buffs/nerfs (with the additional rerolls of 1s)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/17 16:48:32
2018/07/19 21:42:25
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I have been undefeated against Tau with the following list. My friend plays a Tau list very similar to the one that you fight:
Majority of large targets are -1 to shoot and always count as in cover and hard to take down. Has 13 CP as well for double shot on the Hive Guard, fight twice on stealers, Double Advance, etc.
Kraken
Flyrant,, MRC, Devourers, AG, TS - Chameleonic Mutation
Neurothrope (Keep him here in Kraken, behind the stealers to make them Morale immune)
16 stealers with 4 Maws
17 stealers with 4 Maws
3 Rippers
3 rippers
17 Termagaunts (5 have devourers)
16 Termagaunts (5 have devourers)
6 Hive Guard
4 Carnifex with DS and HVC, Spore Cysts and Enhanced Senses
So the Carnifex are all -1 to shoot and always count in cover. Three of them huddle around the Warlord for the trait that does not allow the opponent to get a cover save.
Kraken portion is meant to get there fast, hugging out of line of sight terrain, and then die. Using Catalyst on the way in. Double advance stratagem has given me a 20" first move two games in a row now, with a 7" charge can give you charges on turn one....but I bank on turn two.
Flyrants drop down avoiding fushion and picking off squishier targets on the flanks with Smite etc.
2018/07/21 03:53:31
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So has anyone considered a Zoanthrope Smite bomb? Take 2 broods of 5 Zoanthropes a Nerothrope and a brood of 3 venomthropes put all in Jorg and DS them in with a Raviner brood (costs 4 CP) Rest of the army is on the table likely a gun blob of Hive guard or Tyrannofex's with a Malanthrope for shroud and some bubble wrap. This gives deadly starting table presence shooting (clearing a hole through chaff hopefully) then 2nd turn drop in the smite bomb. 2x d3+3 smites rerolling 1's and healing on successful smites plus an extra smite from the nero and a psyscreem for good measure. This would put the hurt on just about anything.I built a 2000pts list with this in mind but can't really test it for a week or so.
2018/07/21 06:58:32
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I'm not sure of the exact values off the top of my head, but I think the PL restrictions on reserves from the beta rules would make it really hard to pull off that sort of list. Also you need broods of 6 for D3 + 3 smite sadly. At 4-5 you get 2D3 instead.
2018/07/21 07:56:43
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Hes trying to do a Trygon DS with the genestealers, but even when it does work its not too successful as I can just fall back and shoot. So far the FHT and the carnifexes are working well, but hes not sure what to take in addition to improve his list. I was thinking ditch the trygons and take Kraken with more gribblies and HG (but taking a second detachment for kronos at 1500 might be tight)
Any suggestions?
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/07/21 19:33:16
Thats a pretty heavily optimised guard list to throw against a newbie. Defo ditch the trygons for hive guard, maybe give the carnifex and tyrants heavy venom cannons to amp up the lists anti-tank.
2018/07/22 01:30:49
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Well he’s new to 8th but not 40k, but I get your point. I could tone the list down a bit, unfortunately that’s most of my IG models so the main changes I would make would just be different Russ variants. It’s the style of guard I’ve always played, it just so happens now it’s one of the preferred builds.
Any other suggestions? Different Hive fleets, relics etc? How are exocrines?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/22 01:32:33
Maybe some Tyrannofexes with rupture cannons? they are not the most optimal choice against most targets, but they are quite good at taking down T8 targets.
Also venomthropes or malanthropes to protect against guard shooting.
2018/07/23 08:43:40
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Billagio wrote: Any other suggestions? Different Hive fleets, relics etc?
If he really likes the alpha strike element with the Genestealers, it might be worth trying a Genestealer Cult Vanguard loaded with Purestrain Genestealers. Purestrains can deploy via Cult Ambush which saves a bit of points that would otherwise be spent on a "transport" and are specifically exempt from the restrictions on first turn deep strike under the beta rules. They also have access to strength buffs from the GSC faction that will help them out against T8 targets which Genestealers otherwise struggle with.
Exocrines are fairly good but they won't really help against your list since none of your units fall under their optimal targets and you have plenty of tools to snipe one before it can do any real damage.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/23 13:42:38
2018/07/23 14:49:17
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Is there enough terrain to hide a swarmlord? Dropping the Trygons for a Swarmlord and launching either a unit of Genestealers or the Hormagaunts with his Hive Commander ability into melee on turn 1 will shut down a lot of shooting.
6000+
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2018/07/23 14:53:28
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Billagio wrote: So my buddy is new to 8th and has been struggling against my IG list. Can you guys give any advice on what he could do to improve his list?
Here is what he had from memory. I don’t remember what his relics and warlord trait were or where the last 20 points went:
Hes trying to do a Trygon DS with the genestealers, but even when it does work its not too successful as I can just fall back and shoot. So far the FHT and the carnifexes are working well, but hes not sure what to take in addition to improve his list. I was thinking ditch the trygons and take Kraken with more gribblies and HG (but taking a second detachment for kronos at 1500 might be tight)
Any suggestions?
Change to Kraken instead of behemoth for GS and Hormies. If possible put he Carnifexes in Kronos Or Jorm. ALso, he is lacking in S8 anti tank. Give those Carnifex HVC and Devourers. Needs hiveguard and a -1 shrouding unit. Needs to get in fast and pile into your tanks with his GS. Swarmlord would help with that. ALso Tryongs are not too good, perhaps try Mawlocs for DS distraction attacks on your basilisk and lemans.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/23 20:27:41
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Tyrannofex with Acid Spray is like the ideal unit to fight Custodes. I'm liking it more and more. Wait for them to fail saves, and then pay 2CP to boost the damage of its shots by 1. So each failed save is D3+1, with the possibility to kill a Custode Bike.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2018/07/25 23:38:31
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Wait for them to fail saves, then pay a CP to boost damage? That’s... *reads* ...hmm. Technically not explicitly illegal AFAICT. Buuuuut it’s going to cause a lot of arguments, and is never going to survive the next few FAQs
lindsay40k wrote: Wait for them to fail saves, then pay a CP to boost damage? That’s... *reads* ...hmm. Technically not explicitly illegal AFAICT. Buuuuut it’s going to cause a lot of arguments, and is never going to survive the next few FAQs
It's survived them all so far
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/07/26 06:14:29
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Marmatag wrote: Tyrannofex with Acid Spray is like the ideal unit to fight Custodes. I'm liking it more and more. Wait for them to fail saves, and then pay 2CP to boost the damage of its shots by 1. So each failed save is D3+1, with the possibility to kill a Custode Bike.
As i heard from other players, that was clarified by ETC rulepack. You have to declare stratagem before attack. Although your meta may not follow ETC rulepack. My does.
2018/07/26 11:29:21
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
lindsay40k wrote: Wait for them to fail saves, then pay a CP to boost damage? That’s... *reads* ...hmm. Technically not explicitly illegal AFAICT. Buuuuut it’s going to cause a lot of arguments, and is never going to survive the next few FAQs
It's survived them all so far
Warptime on Heretic units arriving from deep strike was explicitly endorsed by the previous FAQ, then the current one reversed the ruling.
Speaking as someone whose wrecking ball of ten Chaos Terminators now sits on the shelf: do not rely on a controversial interpretation of RAW, nor let it inform your purchases.
lindsay40k wrote: Wait for them to fail saves, then pay a CP to boost damage? That’s... *reads* ...hmm. Technically not explicitly illegal AFAICT. Buuuuut it’s going to cause a lot of arguments, and is never going to survive the next few FAQs
It's survived them all so far
Warptime on Heretic units arriving from deep strike was explicitly endorsed by the previous FAQ, then the current one reversed the ruling.
Speaking as someone whose wrecking ball of ten Chaos Terminators now sits on the shelf: do not rely on a controversial interpretation of RAW, nor let it inform your purchases.
I'm just saying you said "it's never going to survive the next few FAQs" and I think it quite possibly could, it's not that cut and dry. It could also be ruled against too, who knows.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/07/26 16:21:40
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Rules as written there is nothing stopping you from doing it.
And it's not that great of a stratagem, just situational. This is why it doesn't come up. 2CP to barely deal any damage... there are WAY better ways to spend CP most of the time. If you had to declare this before shooting - which is not what it says - then it would be hot garbage for 2cp.
Marmatag wrote: Tyrannofex with Acid Spray is like the ideal unit to fight Custodes. I'm liking it more and more. Wait for them to fail saves, and then pay 2CP to boost the damage of its shots by 1. So each failed save is D3+1, with the possibility to kill a Custode Bike.
As i heard from other players, that was clarified by ETC rulepack. You have to declare stratagem before attack. Although your meta may not follow ETC rulepack. My does.
This is a flat out rules change, though.
I could care less about the argument, but you're right, it does result in a paused clock scenario and will reduce the game length by 2 turns. So, it might not be worth it from a pure "i need more points" scenario. Or it could be worth it to rob your opponent of turn 5 and 6.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/07/26 16:27:50
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2018/07/26 20:13:21
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Fast Dice is an optional way to roll wounds but it's not how wound rolls work. Technically, every single shot from an Acid Spray is rolled one at a time, resolving wound rolls, then save rolls for each shot before moving on to the next die in the pool. Therefore, to play it RAW, you must roll the Acid Spray shots one at a time, deciding to use the stratagem after a single failed wound... or you do what ETC ruled and declare that you're using it before using Fast Dice to roll.
Deciding to use the stratagem after rolling all dice in the pool and after resolving all saves in the pool is technically cheating, but most people don't know the nuances of Fast Dice and thus won't call you on it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/26 20:14:44
One thing I would do differant is having some plain old Gaunts. Even your Termagants are "elite" "Devilgants". I think a Brood of Hormagaunts will make things much better. 
Sad as it is I would trim some Stealers to find the points. 
Good luck! And good hunting! 
10000+
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8500+
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3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
(less)
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