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 Nevelon wrote:

 addnid wrote:
I don’t see how 9 pyrovores, all individual models (unless I read you wrong) can bes reserved for 1 cp... in my codex pyrovores are 3 max. So it would be 3*1 cp, meaning 3 cp total, for 9 outflanking pyros...

Per pg. 256 in the main rulebook, “...number of CPs required depends on the combined power ratings of all the units you wish to place in Strategic Reserves”

You total the PL of units, check the chart, pay that price.

@Eihnlazer and Nevelon: ah ok that is great to know, units plural ! Thanks guys. I will most certainly be using outflanking pyros from now on, thanks ! I have four models total, so probably 2 units if 1, then a unit of 2.
They seem better than lictors for deploy scrambled eggs, but I think I will still take at least on lictor if I need to deploy an infantry unit further from board edges. That is 4 elite slots, but a battalion still gives 6 if my memory is not too damaged from lockdown

yeah. The lictor is still a bit more reliable for linebreaker or scramblers as it can deepstrike anywhere on turn 2, but the pryo's cant go into the opponents deployment zone till turn 3.

A unit of one pyro is nice for the midzone scrambler though yes, or engage.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Keramory wrote:
That box is amazing. You'll get our A+ expensive uints (hg and exo) as well as a Swarmlord to rush 16 Genestealers into someone's face.

Then you can have the Gargoyles run to an objective.

Yeah the Genestealers and Gargoyles are not great units but they'll do their job very well, especially if you run a list made of this box vs some of the other boxes.

Genos and Gargoyles are trash tier, there's no other way to put this fact

I’m on my phone and I saw this post and I’m like.... ah, a post calling perfectly playable units trash tier and declaring that this is simply a fact... why I bet that’s kurtangle. Drag left and, yup wouldn’t ya know.

Neither of those units are trash tier, if they feel that way you’re probably just using them wrong. Big blobs of stealers don’t work anymore, but that was the case since like midway 8th tbh. Gargs are a very underrated unit in the dex.

The biggest problem with gargoyles is and always will be transportation.

Sixteen Genestealers?

I honestly don't know how many unbuilt Genestealers I have. I know I have 70 unbuilt Gargoyles.

I'd rather just get another Exocrine.

Niiai wrote:The biggest problem with gargoyles is and always will be transportation.

Do they use the old flight stems? With my Eldar jetbikes I found the hole for the peg fit a 2mm magnet neatly. Put another magnet on the top of the stem (clip the peg) and they keep on fine. As long as the mounting spot is more or less the center of mass, it should work. Looking at pics, seems to be the case. And when you don’t need to worry about the flight stands snapping off, transport gets a lot easier. Old metals might be a little too much mass and torque, but the plastics should be fine.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Sixteen Genestealers?

I honestly don't know how many unbuilt Genestealers I have. I know I have 70 unbuilt Gargoyles.

I'd rather just get another Exocrine.

One nice thing about coming into the Battleboxes reasonably fresh is I don’t have to worry about massive duplicates. So it’s a much better deal. That said, even I have a chunk of stealers and a few gargoyles kicking around. But most of them are old and a lot of the stealers are broken (not the stealers from the SC box, which are still on sprue)

 Nevelon wrote:

Niiai wrote:The biggest problem with gargoyles is and always will be transportation.

Do they use the old flight stems? With my Eldar jetbikes I found the hole for the peg fit a 2mm magnet neatly. Put another magnet on the top of the stem (clip the peg) and they keep on fine. As long as the mounting spot is more or less the center of mass, it should work. Looking at pics, seems to be the case. And when you don’t need to worry about the flight stands snapping off, transport gets a lot easier. Old metals might be a little too much mass and torque, but the plastics should be fine.

Can confirm this is the way to go with gargoyles, makes storage so much easier (I have them loose in an "open" foam tray) and means they don't fall off the bases when you try moving them around on the board. They're a lot lighter than jetbikes so no balancing issues at all.

Whilst gargs are a bit overpriced (lack of obsec means they should probably be 6ppm not 7) they do have a role as a move blocker. A unit of 30 metabolic overdrived will stop the enemy from even getting out of their deployment zone turn 1, which is potentially a huge swing in terms of primary (and some secondary, potentially) points.

Benlisted wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Niiai wrote:The biggest problem with gargoyles is and always will be transportation.

Do they use the old flight stems? With my Eldar jetbikes I found the hole for the peg fit a 2mm magnet neatly. Put another magnet on the top of the stem (clip the peg) and they keep on fine. As long as the mounting spot is more or less the center of mass, it should work. Looking at pics, seems to be the case. And when you don’t need to worry about the flight stands snapping off, transport gets a lot easier. Old metals might be a little too much mass and torque, but the plastics should be fine.

Can confirm this is the way to go with gargoyles, makes storage so much easier (I have them loose in an "open" foam tray) and means they don't fall off the bases when you try moving them around on the board. They're a lot lighter than jetbikes so no balancing issues at all.

Whilst gargs are a bit overpriced (lack of obsec means they should probably be 6ppm not 7) they do have a role as a move blocker. A unit of 30 metabolic overdrived will stop the enemy from even getting out of their deployment zone turn 1, which is potentially a huge swing in terms of primary (and some secondary, potentially) points.

But why would I take 7 ppm gargoyles when I can go for 15 ppm skyslasher swarms for fast objective grabbing (and with fewer deaths on metabolic due to fewer models and multiwound profiles)?
Gargoyles have no reason to exist at their current price points and with their rules as of now

So as one who has many gargoyles, 40 genestealers, 2 flying hive tyrants, 6 hive guards and 0 exoshrines the tyranid start collectong might not be for me?

I would love to test out hive guards with the electro shot. Thry look good on paper.

Because their role is blocking movement and gargoyles have a larger footprint

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Because their role is blocking movement and gargoyles have a larger footprint

At this point I'd rather play 9 biovores to block movement from 48" No LoS and more efficiently rather than than 210 points of a un it that dies turn 1,requires CP to work and also loses 1/6 of units each time it is does that

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Because their role is blocking movement and gargoyles have a larger footprint

Yup exactly. The role is to be boosted in front of the enemy front lines to block space, and 9 40mm sky-slashers have a hugely lower footprint than 30 (or even 24 if 6 die) gargoyles on 35mm flying stands.

EDIT: @ the above, you get 4 biovores for the same price so 9 is a false equivalence, and a max of 4 (or even 8 if you double shoot for 2CP) spore mines has vastly lower footprint. Whereas 25 or so gargoyles can occupy a vast portion of the midboard. Also, on some maps 12" and advance is probably sufficient, and you have swarmy available if 1CP is a big issue.

210pts and maybe a CP seems a reasonable trade for probably a 15 VP swing if the gargs help you keep them off the mid objectives (they lose hold 2/more, you gain hold more) - especially because your opponent then HAS to score 15 per turn basically every remaining turn to max out primary. I'm not saying gargoyles are the best unit in the dex, but to dismiss them as entirely worthless is silly, they clearly have a role that nothing else can fill that is strong given the 9th missions. Also, if they are killing your gargoyles (which they have to in order to manage to reclaim the central objectives) they are not killing other stuff with that firepower.

Benlisted wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Because their role is blocking movement and gargoyles have a larger footprint

Yup exactly. The role is to be boosted in front of the enemy front lines to block space, and 9 40mm sky-slashers have a hugely lower footprint than 30 (or even 24 if 6 die) gargoyles on 35mm flying stands.

EDIT: @ the above, you get 4 biovores for the same price so 9 is a false equivalence, and a max of 4 (or even 8 if you double shoot for 2CP) spore mines has vastly lower footprint. Whereas 25 or so gargoyles can occupy a vast portion of the midboard. Also, on some maps 12" and advance is probably sufficient, and you have swarmy available if 1CP is a big issue.

210pts and maybe a CP seems a reasonable trade for probably a 15 VP swing if the gargs help you keep them off the mid objectives (they lose hold 2/more, you gain hold more) - especially because your opponent then HAS to score 15 per turn basically every remaining turn to max out primary. I'm not saying gargoyles are the best unit in the dex, but to dismiss them as entirely worthless is silly, they clearly have a role that nothing else can fill that is strong given the 9th missions. Also, if they are killing your gargoyles (which they have to in order to manage to reclaim the central objectives) they are not killing other stuff with that firepower.

You pay 450 pts compared to 210 but you get to use their movement blocking shenanigans for at least 2 Battle Rounds whereas 30 Gargoyles are:

1) Impossible to hide with their footprint even when you're using loads of Obscuring
2) Requires 1 CP to make 12" +2d6" move whilst losing between 4 and 6 models each time you do that (and I am not even considering the opportunity cost of NOT having something else double move + advance which is VERY RELEVANT in Tyranids)
3) One battle round of movement blocking shenanigans IF you go first, 0 if you go second.
4) 12" + d6" is 16"-18" movement which sometime sufficient but not as good as a 48" mines wall that happen to also do few MW when you manage to hit on 5s.
5) Tally tally tally, they are 3 VPs easily given to your enemy whereas Biovores are effectively not giving anything
6) You clearly overestimate the firepower to kill 30 gargoyles: at 7 ppm for 3+ 6+ they are the WORST wound per tank ratio in the game bar 5 ppm Gretchins, dying to ANYTHING that targets them, even gak S3 AP- shots

He didn't say they were ideal, he said they have a use.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
He didn't say they were ideal, he said they have a use.

They're the 3rd worst tankyness per point in the game bar Gretchins and Ratlings, this alone should have you think how bad they are (and nobody really plays Gretchins and Ratlings); if they're bad at their intended role (both wound soaking AND movement blocking shenanigans), they don't have a use

Some ork lists use gretchins to grab objectives. They can't do gak. But holding an objectuve cheaply is very strong in a list that fights so well for midboard. As orks often do.

 Niiai wrote:
Some ork lists use gretchins to grab objectives. They can't do gak. But holding an objectuve cheaply is very strong in a list that fights so well for midboard. As orks often do.

No, 0 competitive lists use Gretchins

I am with Kurt on this, kraken hormagaunts can do this fine for one cp (kraken double advance distance strat, which gargs can't use because of fly)) if you really need to box in your opponent on turn 1. Obsec and 1 ppm less, even though you need to be kraken.

I think if you are paying for gargoyles then you are kind of shooting yourself in the proverbial hoof. They had their time in the sun in 7th edition with the sky blight swarm formation.

Or if you bring a harridan perhaps hah hah

At the end of 8th gargs had a place by stacking penalties to hit in melee (could get up to a -4 to hit with custome hive fleet, abilities, and psychic powers).


This was taken away in 9th so they really are kinda weak atm.

What if you just like Gargoyles...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What if you just like Gargoyles...

Hush you! Its not like nids are only not the worst army in the game because tau got hit so hard with the nerf bat they wont land till 10th.

 Niiai wrote:
Pyrovored is a very good unit witch is why I got mine 3D printed.

Nice!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What if you just like Gargoyles...

This is 40k, fun is less important than winning.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
This is 40k, fun is less important than winning.

Also the first time I've heard someone call Genestealers "trash tier".

Well, first time since 8th dropped. They definite were trash tier in 5th to 7th.

8th edition A+. 9th edition I very rarly see cassual or competive lists take them. I guess it depends on how you define trash tier. But they are very very bad IMHO.

People not taking something doesn’t have any bearing at all on its tier. ESPECIALLY when discussing Tyranids.

Not the best day to be a tyranid. But a supricingly good day to be a GSC?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/19/metawatch-warhammer-40000-episode-2-data-gods-of-war/

Keep in kind those stats don't show internal codex balance.

I am debating on starting a new army. In my area there are no Tyranids and that seems odd to me. I have always thought of getting into Nids but for whatever reason always talked myself out of it.

What do the bugs have going for them in 9th?