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 catbarf wrote:
I don't think Jormungandr would be optimal. Like you noted it doesn't help if you advance (or get in melee), and lots of armies (see: Marines) have no trouble hitting you with enough AP to mitigate your save.

I'd suggest Leviathan for durability. You get your 6+ against anything AP0, and then an extra 6++ against all wounds.

Alternatively, Kraken with gaunts means you will dominate the board. You won't be quite as durable, but you will be able to get on objectives quickly and hold them.

That combination addnid recommended is a nice compromise between the two, albeit at the cost of fleet-specific goodies.

If you want to tarpit 6++ is much better than a 6+++ that gets ignored against anything worthy of note

I think I'm see-sawing between addnids recommendation for a custom fleet, Leviathan and kraken.

I'll have to get a few games and experiment: Leviathan's relic and stratagem do nothing, and the custom fleet obviously doesn't have one, so most tempted by Kraken for a first try.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
I don't think Jormungandr would be optimal. Like you noted it doesn't help if you advance (or get in melee), and lots of armies (see: Marines) have no trouble hitting you with enough AP to mitigate your save.

I'd suggest Leviathan for durability. You get your 6+ against anything AP0, and then an extra 6++ against all wounds.

Alternatively, Kraken with gaunts means you will dominate the board. You won't be quite as durable, but you will be able to get on objectives quickly and hold them.

That combination addnid recommended is a nice compromise between the two, albeit at the cost of fleet-specific goodies.

If you want to tarpit 6++ is much better than a 6+++ that gets ignored against anything worthy of note

Edited my post for accuracy, since Leviathan is a 6+++ rather than a 6++. What do you mean by 'gets ignored against anything worthy of note'? Obviously a 6+++ isn't much help against multi-damage weapons but if your opponent is pointing those at Gaunts, you're doing pretty well.

Leviathan stratgem is ridiculesly strong for it's CP if you manage to trigger it.

It is, but it requires flying stuff, which I don't have. Likewise the relic requires something with boneswords.

If you go Custom Fleet I believe there is a heal one wound power that Might keep the Tervigons alive a little longer. Then once you have a game or three in look at adding units like Lictors and Venothropes. Zoeys are one of our better units rights now (as always... )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Currently Nids don't generally like taking Relic, and take a adaptation instead. Then Double down for a second one.

Don't adaptive physiology choices replace warlord traits, not relics?

Yeah, my pain meds got screwed up, and I am still recovering...

locarno24 wrote:
I figured jormungander wouldn't be so great - that I'd be needing to advance a lot in turns 1 and 2 to swarm objectives, and going from a 6+ save to a 5+ didn't feel so great - or is that mostly about keeping the momma bugs alive?

I was originally thinking about the big bugs (old standby for monster spam) but I suppose after the points raised by others it probably isn't the best pick for your list. I do like addnid's suggestion. As noted it is a fair compromise between speed and durability.

Also regarding Leviathan and War on All Fronts, my experience has been that any of the 'thropes are great enablers for it.

Hey are there any good ways to use Tyrannofexes against say, Space Marines or Necrons, I just got a second one for my birthday and was wondering if a Double T-fex could be useful for busting through a line of intercessors with those big acid spray, or for pairing up and cutting down tanks with their rupture cannons.

Also just put in an order for a Maleceptor because I like the model, are they any good? Similar defensive profile to a Hive Tyrant but with harder hitting weapons, if at worse WS and with fewer attacks.

Malceptor is quite fun with Blood of Baal. The Encephalic Diffusion stratagem is very helpful against a wide range of units. I had games in late 8th where the only reason anything of mine survived the first couple turns was because of the -1 strength bubble from the Malceptor anchoring the center.

Offensively it is kinda so-so, though it does have an easier time getting D6 damage smites due to the innate +1 it gets while casting. I have had one kill a Knight after a couple smites and some lucky talon damage rolls, but in most cases I treat it as a support beast rather than an assault specialist.

Tyranofexes are OK. Flamer is best option. Rupture cannon competes VS exoshoshrine, the first is better VS T8 only. Exoshrine is much more diverse allrounder.

All of these got massive competition for the forge world big bugs.

Kraken is so much better in almost every circumstance. Big bugs being able to fallback and charge is so important. And Termagants that are still 5pt fearless bodies but take the entire board turn 1 is game changing. It has hands down the best stratagem too.

Leviathan turning every 10 gants into 11/12 man (vs damage 1 only) isn't hugely relevant. 18W big bugs into 21W is more relevant, but only sometimes, and often doesn't make much difference. Kraken makes a big difference every single game.

Maleceptors in tandem with mawlocs can do some nasty damage to castled up units. Double move the maleceptor and use its AoE attack alongside the mawloc popping up. You’ll have two big units they’ll be forced to deal with before anything else, and the encephalic strat ensures they won’t go down easy.

pinecone77 wrote:
Yeah, my pain meds got screwed up, and I am still recovering...

OK meds are right now...What I meant was these days nobody sweats the Relic, it is all about the Adaptations.


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 Badablack wrote:
Maleceptors in tandem with mawlocs can do some nasty damage to castled up units. Double move the maleceptor and use its AoE attack alongside the mawloc popping up. You’ll have two big units they’ll be forced to deal with before anything else, and the encephalic strat ensures they won’t go down easy.

Yes I love Mawlock as a answer to castles. Though I don't think 9th really rewards castling up. Maybe the new Tau Codex will change that, but in 9th moving around, and taking things is major.

pinecone77 wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Yeah, my pain meds got screwed up, and I am still recovering...

OK meds are right now...What I meant was these days nobody sweats the Relic, it is all about the Adaptations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Badablack wrote:
Maleceptors in tandem with mawlocs can do some nasty damage to castled up units. Double move the maleceptor and use its AoE attack alongside the mawloc popping up. You’ll have two big units they’ll be forced to deal with before anything else, and the encephalic strat ensures they won’t go down easy.

Yes I love Mawlock as a answer to castles. Though I don't think 9th really rewards castling up. Maybe the new Tau Codex will change that, but in 9th moving around, and taking things is major.

People often leave minimal troops units on objectives close to their deployment zone. I think this is where the Mawloc shines in taking away those least protected objectives..

 Strat_N8 wrote:
Malceptor is quite fun with Blood of Baal. The Encephalic Diffusion stratagem is very helpful against a wide range of units. I had games in late 8th where the only reason anything of mine survived the first couple turns was because of the -1 strength bubble from the Malceptor anchoring the center.

Offensively it is kinda so-so, though it does have an easier time getting D6 damage smites due to the innate +1 it gets while casting. I have had one kill a Knight after a couple smites and some lucky talon damage rolls, but in most cases I treat it as a support beast rather than an assault specialist.

In Kraken, I give him the Psychic Scream power, and send him forward at the front of the rush. He can then scream/smite on +1 to cast, gets shadow in the warp and deny right out in the middle of the table, and then can charge something either to deny it from shooting or to keep something that blends infantry off my genestealers. His ability to fall back, reposition to get scream/smite on what I want it on, and then charge again to be a nuisance is incredibly useful. He's also decently durable for his points. In short, if you look at him from a min/max damage output perspective he's awful. However, if you use him as a swiss army knife for solving problems, or sometimes just forcing the enemy to invest in killing him so he doesn't mortal down something important, he's a gem.

 Verthane wrote:

 Strat_N8 wrote:
Malceptor is quite fun with Blood of Baal. The Encephalic Diffusion stratagem is very helpful against a wide range of units. I had games in late 8th where the only reason anything of mine survived the first couple turns was because of the -1 strength bubble from the Malceptor anchoring the center.

Offensively it is kinda so-so, though it does have an easier time getting D6 damage smites due to the innate +1 it gets while casting. I have had one kill a Knight after a couple smites and some lucky talon damage rolls, but in most cases I treat it as a support beast rather than an assault specialist.

In Kraken, I give him the Psychic Scream power, and send him forward at the front of the rush. He can then scream/smite on +1 to cast, gets shadow in the warp and deny right out in the middle of the table, and then can charge something either to deny it from shooting or to keep something that blends infantry off my genestealers. His ability to fall back, reposition to get scream/smite on what I want it on, and then charge again to be a nuisance is incredibly useful. He's also decently durable for his points. In short, if you look at him from a min/max damage output perspective he's awful. However, if you use him as a swiss army knife for solving problems, or sometimes just forcing the enemy to invest in killing him so he doesn't mortal down something important, he's a gem.

Can you still Fall Back and cast? I thought 9th nixed that.

You can’t, think you can do the special maleceptor brain blast though as it’s not a psychic power

 JNAProductions wrote:
Can you still Fall Back and cast? I thought 9th nixed that.

You are 100% correct, you can no longer do it.

Did it so many times in 8th that it became muscle memory LOL.

Thank you for pointing it out so someone didn't cheat.

So how do you think the incoming drop to 13ppm will affect the Genestealers?

Also the new secondary is technically a nerf to Warriors but a buff to our monsters.

 Tyran wrote:
So how do you think the incoming drop to 13ppm will affect the Genestealers?

Also the new secondary is technically a nerf to Warriors but a buff to our monsters.

Useless

I like how the Dima's gone up in points.

"Sir! Tyranid players have found some use in one of the more obscure units."
"How much use?"
"It's actually quite effective, especially when you consider that we've gone out of our way to make most Tyranids units garbage."
"Well, we can't have that! Nerf it!"
"Yes sir! That'll teach Tyranid players what having 'hope' gets them!"

 Tyran wrote:
So how do you think the incoming drop to 13ppm will affect the Genestealers?

Also the new secondary is technically a nerf to Warriors but a buff to our monsters.

I have been messing around with MSU Stealers, and now I think they might be fully useful.

So there is a new FAQ out with this hidden 'gem' tucked in there:

6. Even if a Reinforcement unit is subject to such a rule, that rule has no effect on that unit in the turn they are set up on the battlefield. This means Reinforcement units always units count as having moved (i.e. they never count as having Remained
Stationary). Remember that this also includes Repositioned and Replacement units (pg 99).

Apparently having exocrines count as stationary after coming in from reserves was too powerful...

It was probably too powerful for the Death Guard, the Exocrines are just being hit as collateral.

Us3Less wrote:
So there is a new FAQ out with this hidden 'gem' tucked in there:

6. Even if a Reinforcement unit is subject to such a rule, that rule has no effect on that unit in the turn they are set up on the battlefield. This means Reinforcement units always units count as having moved (i.e. they never count as having Remained
Stationary). Remember that this also includes Repositioned and Replacement units (pg 99).

Apparently having exocrines count as stationary after coming in from reserves was too powerful...

The various changes also means they can use the strat to count as stationary after falling back, so there's that. I will miss doing it after coming in from strategic reserves though. Makes taking 2 exos a little less appealing.

The last FAQ said they could use that strat even if they've advanced. The new one says the exact opposite, even when the rulebook FAQ clarifies that "always stationary" can affect units that have Advanced or Fallen Back. So the Exocrine specifically gets its own slightly different version of a rule that impacts everyone else the same way.

GW are a bunch of fething monkeys. And feth "bespoke" rules. They would know a good set of rules if it came up and bit 'em in the face...

Thinking about trying a Hydra horde list full of a metric ton of hormagaunts and judicious use of the Caustic Blood and Cut Them Down stratagems and the Death Shriek power. Mortals when they die, more mortals to everything else, and mortals if the enemy tries to fall back. Could fill the rest of the list with pyrovores and spore mines, if my lot in life is to get blown off the board I should theme a list around it.

Would Behemoth work? Mortals when you charge as well...