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 Astmeister wrote:

changemod wrote:
Do Tyrant Guard have much use now? I notice their attacks have gone up to 3 each if nothing else. Could maybe be loose terminator equivalents in Jormungandr with their higher toughness and save plus crushing claws?

They can be quite good Tank Hunters with Crushing claws coming in as deep strike. The only problem is that Genestealers are much better in melee even against tanks.

Against T8 3+:

6 Tyrant Guard with CC - 9.9 wounds , 29.7 points per wound
20 Genestealers - 8.9 wounds, 27 points per wound
20 GS with toxin sacs - 17.8 wounds, 18 points per wound

It might be interesting to use Tyrant Guard in a Leviathan detachement next to a Hive Tyrant. The HT can roll a 6+ FNP for every wound, transfer it to the TG and they again can take the 6+ FNP for every wound. This makes the overall unit very durable.

Well okay sure, but I have an existing Genestealer cult army if all I wanted to do was spam stealer shock.

 Astmeister wrote:

changemod wrote:
Do Tyrant Guard have much use now? I notice their attacks have gone up to 3 each if nothing else. Could maybe be loose terminator equivalents in Jormungandr with their higher toughness and save plus crushing claws?

They can be quite good Tank Hunters with Crushing claws coming in as deep strike. The only problem is that Genestealers are much better in melee even against tanks.

Against T8 3+:

6 Tyrant Guard with CC - 9.9 wounds , 29.7 points per wound
20 Genestealers - 8.9 wounds, 27 points per wound
20 GS with toxin sacs - 17.8 wounds, 18 points per wound

It might be interesting to use Tyrant Guard in a Leviathan detachement next to a Hive Tyrant. The HT can roll a 6+ FNP for every wound, transfer it to the TG and they again can take the 6+ FNP for every wound. This makes the overall unit very durable.

Problem is tyrant guard are meant to die if they do their job properly so I'm not sure about spending points on them. You can always drop them in and ignore their ability to keep a tyrant alive but then then you need that 9" charge or they are dead. Out in the open they are not difficult to kill and with crushing claws they are not getting near any tanks - but as a distraction they may work and soak up some high S shooting. I might give them a try but not convinced. For anti-tank I'm still leaning towards 18 hive guard to be honest but getting those models is a slow burner!

changemod wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

changemod wrote:
Do Tyrant Guard have much use now? I notice their attacks have gone up to 3 each if nothing else. Could maybe be loose terminator equivalents in Jormungandr with their higher toughness and save plus crushing claws?

They can be quite good Tank Hunters with Crushing claws coming in as deep strike. The only problem is that Genestealers are much better in melee even against tanks.

Against T8 3+:

6 Tyrant Guard with CC - 9.9 wounds , 29.7 points per wound
20 Genestealers - 8.9 wounds, 27 points per wound
20 GS with toxin sacs - 17.8 wounds, 18 points per wound

It might be interesting to use Tyrant Guard in a Leviathan detachement next to a Hive Tyrant. The HT can roll a 6+ FNP for every wound, transfer it to the TG and they again can take the 6+ FNP for every wound. This makes the overall unit very durable.

Well okay sure, but I have an existing Genestealer cult army if all I wanted to do was spam stealer shock.

I did not say, you should spam stealer shock. However, 15 GS with TS are way better anti-tank than 6 Tyrant Guard with CC.

ruminator wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

changemod wrote:
Do Tyrant Guard have much use now? I notice their attacks have gone up to 3 each if nothing else. Could maybe be loose terminator equivalents in Jormungandr with their higher toughness and save plus crushing claws?

They can be quite good Tank Hunters with Crushing claws coming in as deep strike. The only problem is that Genestealers are much better in melee even against tanks.

Against T8 3+:

6 Tyrant Guard with CC - 9.9 wounds , 29.7 points per wound
20 Genestealers - 8.9 wounds, 27 points per wound
20 GS with toxin sacs - 17.8 wounds, 18 points per wound

It might be interesting to use Tyrant Guard in a Leviathan detachement next to a Hive Tyrant. The HT can roll a 6+ FNP for every wound, transfer it to the TG and they again can take the 6+ FNP for every wound. This makes the overall unit very durable.

Problem is tyrant guard are meant to die if they do their job properly so I'm not sure about spending points on them. You can always drop them in and ignore their ability to keep a tyrant alive but then then you need that 9" charge or they are dead. Out in the open they are not difficult to kill and with crushing claws they are not getting near any tanks - but as a distraction they may work and soak up some high S shooting. I might give them a try but not convinced. For anti-tank I'm still leaning towards 18 hive guard to be honest but getting those models is a slow burner!

Tyrant Guards can have adrenalin glands, so you have a good chance of dropping in and charging.
I will try Leviathan HT + TG to see if it is worth anything.

 Astmeister wrote:
I did not say, you should spam stealer shock. However, 15 GS with TS are way better anti-tank than 6 Tyrant Guard with CC.

More responding to the general trend that Genestealers are being touted as the solution to most assault problems, honestly. Might've came across a bit hostile from my current sleep deprivation.

As I mentioned in another post, stealer spam in a kraken list will win you games. They are cheap enough and fast enough now that you can take just them and beat anything. I think however that in most lists having more than 1 squad is useless without finding a way to guarantee first turn charges for 2 or more squads of them.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
As I mentioned in another post, stealer spam in a kraken list will win you games. They are cheap enough and fast enough now that you can take just them and beat anything. I think however that in most lists having more than 1 squad is useless without finding a way to guarantee first turn charges for 2 or more squads of them.

I wonder when players will start realizing this and actually put some counters into the lists

Until then it's free playing!

changemod wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
I did not say, you should spam stealer shock. However, 15 GS with TS are way better anti-tank than 6 Tyrant Guard with CC.

More responding to the general trend that Genestealers are being touted as the solution to most assault problems, honestly. Might've came across a bit hostile from my current sleep deprivation.

No Problem. I am also annoyed by the Tyranid lists with 50%+ Genestealers. I would personally never use more than 2x20, because I like variety in my lists.

 Astmeister wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
I did not say, you should spam stealer shock. However, 15 GS with TS are way better anti-tank than 6 Tyrant Guard with CC.

More responding to the general trend that Genestealers are being touted as the solution to most assault problems, honestly. Might've came across a bit hostile from my current sleep deprivation.

No Problem. I am also annoyed by the Tyranid lists with 50%+ Genestealers. I would personally never use more than 2x20, because I like variety in my lists.

If you are running a glass-cannon unit across the board, then you definitely should spam them. Or at least bring some hormagaunts along.

pismakron wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
I did not say, you should spam stealer shock. However, 15 GS with TS are way better anti-tank than 6 Tyrant Guard with CC.

More responding to the general trend that Genestealers are being touted as the solution to most assault problems, honestly. Might've came across a bit hostile from my current sleep deprivation.

No Problem. I am also annoyed by the Tyranid lists with 50%+ Genestealers. I would personally never use more than 2x20, because I like variety in my lists.

If you are running a glass-cannon unit across the board, then you definitely should spam them. Or at least bring some hormagaunts along.

I don't say that it will not be effective, but for me it is boring.

Not including Smite/Scream

What is the best mortal wound generation? Per point? Reliability (i.e.a Mawloc could cause 50 MW... if it was surrounded by 100's of single model units, which is unrealistic aha!).

Biovore - 1MW on average, 36pts, good range, no LOS.

Mawloc - Are patterns of deployment to deny deep strikers beneficial to Mawlocs (so some good internal synergy here, punish one or the other type of deployment?). 105pts.. 1.3MW per unit.

How many targets hit makes the Mawloc good or excellent. Obviously none or 1 is okay, 10 is amazing. If we call the Biovore good, logic would say 3+ units would be great.

Sporecyst - Similar to a Mawloc but doesn't scale however can deliver a Mucolid or 3 spore mines. Can also attack with a Spore Node attack but the range is less than the minimum deep-strike distance so this is more of a zoning tool (+ you gain the benefit of 5 BS5+ Deathspitters to boot).

Mucolid / Sporemine = Not reliable MW generators given the speed and minimum deep strike distances. Still, useful to cheaply fill out slots, great zoning / extremely cheap distraction units. Consequence free!

Misc = Carnifexes, cheap gaunts with caustic blood, venomthropes etc. I'd say all of these are superficial

Thoughts?.

Razerous wrote:
Not including Smite/Scream

What is the best mortal wound generation? Per point? Reliability (i.e.a Mawloc could cause 50 MW... if it was surrounded by 100's of single model units, which is unrealistic aha!).

Biovore - 1MW on average, 36pts, good range, no LOS.

Mawloc - Are patterns of deployment to deny deep strikers beneficial to Mawlocs (so some good internal synergy here, punish one or the other type of deployment?). 105pts.. 1.3MW per unit.

How many targets hit makes the Mawloc good or excellent. Obviously none or 1 is okay, 10 is amazing. If we call the Biovore good, logic would say 3+ units would be great.

Sporecyst - Similar to a Mawloc but doesn't scale however can deliver a Mucolid or 3 spore mines. Can also attack with a Spore Node attack but the range is less than the minimum deep-strike distance so this is more of a zoning tool (+ you gain the benefit of 5 BS5+ Deathspitters to boot).

Mucolid / Sporemine = Not reliable MW generators given the speed and minimum deep strike distances. Still, useful to cheaply fill out slots, great zoning / extremely cheap distraction units. Consequence free!

Misc = Carnifexes, cheap gaunts with caustic blood, venomthropes etc. I'd say all of these are superficial

Thoughts?.

Biovores have to hit, this makes it 0,5 MW on average (plus half spore).

Spoletta wrote:
Biovores have to hit, this makes it 0,5 MW on average (plus half spore).

Aha very true, sorry.

However got me thinking... Fire twice stratagem? Not sure if that is worthwhile but could be good, especially with a Kronos unit. (May be a terrible idea!)

 Astmeister wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
I thought you said best, not 3rd best. It must be my dyslexia.

I amm all for warriors. I even thought they where good in the index before the decrase in devourers and upgrade and increase in wennom cannon. Swords even became cheaper.

I do think it is a fallocy not counting the prime though. The prime is not so impressive by himself. It has a bad range option, deathspitter onlyr , and only rending claws or boneswords in CC, and no psykick powers. Big brother tyrant, neuronthrope and broodlord all outperform him. You are only taking prime if you take warriors. And only 15/18 of them before he starts becoming cheap. You need a considerable amount of your list dedicated for it. Mind you warriors has a lot going for them. But the other heavy weapon platforms you can often just jam into any list more or less.

If you want a small 3 man group of 2 regular and 1 venom cannon you can just take the carnifex with deathspitters and heavy venom cannon. Even though it is exspensive you can argue the same deathspitters can fire at something else. The flat 3 damage is very nice on the heavy venom cannon. (Although exoshrine with damage stratgem can do the same.)

The Fex with HVC and DS might outperform the Warriors, but they are at least much cheaper with only arount 90 points for 3 and give SitW with Synapse. They also have twice the amount of attacks in CC with 3+ to hit, so they can stand their ground more easily.

Btw I did the calculation for Leviathan Hive Tyrant + Tyrant Guard in 6 inch. If my calc is correct, they have a chance of not getting any wound of 64% due to having double the 6+++ FNP with the Tyrant guard. This is when you even have to use the 4++ roll because someone is shooting with a LasCan or something like that.

So in short: Leviathan Hive Tyrants with Tyrant Guard close are really durable!!!

Does the Hive Tyrant get to take its FNP before the Guard have to try to intercept? Both trigger when a unit "loses a wound", so the sequencing rules would seem to come into play. Most of the time, it will be your opponent's turn and they'll get to pick which happens first.

Biovores might be a coin flip to hit, but they are uniquely guaranteed to have an impact. You hit, wham, a Devastator just died. You miss, something’s going to have to shoot the Spore mine before it goes ahead and hits anyway.

Thirty Behemoth Hormagaunts look pretty good. Average up to five MWs. Against a target with 3+ save, probably 9W total with Toxin Sacs.

Solid candidate for a Pheremone Trail alpha strike, actually. Not hard to knock down a tank to that sort of state. Bounding Leap has great potential for being a similar headache for gunners as Warptime Warp Talons. I’m going to be on the lookout for opportunities to Adrenaline Surge - that’s potentially an extra foot of movement; never mind the attacks, I’m just happy to shut down a load of units’ shooting.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
I thought you said best, not 3rd best. It must be my dyslexia.

I amm all for warriors. I even thought they where good in the index before the decrase in devourers and upgrade and increase in wennom cannon. Swords even became cheaper.

I do think it is a fallocy not counting the prime though. The prime is not so impressive by himself. It has a bad range option, deathspitter onlyr , and only rending claws or boneswords in CC, and no psykick powers. Big brother tyrant, neuronthrope and broodlord all outperform him. You are only taking prime if you take warriors. And only 15/18 of them before he starts becoming cheap. You need a considerable amount of your list dedicated for it. Mind you warriors has a lot going for them. But the other heavy weapon platforms you can often just jam into any list more or less.

If you want a small 3 man group of 2 regular and 1 venom cannon you can just take the carnifex with deathspitters and heavy venom cannon. Even though it is exspensive you can argue the same deathspitters can fire at something else. The flat 3 damage is very nice on the heavy venom cannon. (Although exoshrine with damage stratgem can do the same.)

The Fex with HVC and DS might outperform the Warriors, but they are at least much cheaper with only arount 90 points for 3 and give SitW with Synapse. They also have twice the amount of attacks in CC with 3+ to hit, so they can stand their ground more easily.

Btw I did the calculation for Leviathan Hive Tyrant + Tyrant Guard in 6 inch. If my calc is correct, they have a chance of not getting any wound of 64% due to having double the 6+++ FNP with the Tyrant guard. This is when you even have to use the 4++ roll because someone is shooting with a LasCan or something like that.

So in short: Leviathan Hive Tyrants with Tyrant Guard close are really durable!!!

Does the Hive Tyrant get to take its FNP before the Guard have to try to intercept? Both trigger when a unit "loses a wound", so the sequencing rules would seem to come into play. Most of the time, it will be your opponent's turn and they'll get to pick which happens first.

Oh, I thought you could simply first take the FNP and afterwards the interception. Maybe you are right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Biovores might be a coin flip to hit, but they are uniquely guaranteed to have an impact. You hit, wham, a Devastator just died. You miss, something’s going to have to shoot the Spore mine before it goes ahead and hits anyway.

Thirty Behemoth Hormagaunts look pretty good. Average up to five MWs. Against a target with 3+ save, probably 9W total with Toxin Sacs.

Solid candidate for a Pheremone Trail alpha strike, actually. Not hard to knock down a tank to that sort of state. Bounding Leap has great potential for being a similar headache for gunners as Warptime Warp Talons. I’m going to be on the lookout for opportunities to Adrenaline Surge - that’s potentially an extra foot of movement; never mind the attacks, I’m just happy to shut down a load of units’ shooting.

30 Hormagants have to be within 1 inch of the enemy unit to do this trick after the charge. I think that is very unlikely in most of the cases.

Also the benefit of 30 horms won't be the damage as much as it will be the ability to engage a huge front, tie units and prevent firing/disengaging (in some cases).

Agreed about the Biovores. Excellent for zoning and for the impact they can have, for such a cheap unit.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
As I mentioned in another post, stealer spam in a kraken list will win you games. They are cheap enough and fast enough now that you can take just them and beat anything. I think however that in most lists having more than 1 squad is useless without finding a way to guarantee first turn charges for 2 or more squads of them.

Ehh I don't know about that. You can really just take stealers and win a lot of games I think. I think a lot of tournament lists will be taking something like 100 genes with a lot of neurothropes and malanthropes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ruminator wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

changemod wrote:
Do Tyrant Guard have much use now? I notice their attacks have gone up to 3 each if nothing else. Could maybe be loose terminator equivalents in Jormungandr with their higher toughness and save plus crushing claws?

They can be quite good Tank Hunters with Crushing claws coming in as deep strike. The only problem is that Genestealers are much better in melee even against tanks.

Against T8 3+:

6 Tyrant Guard with CC - 9.9 wounds , 29.7 points per wound
20 Genestealers - 8.9 wounds, 27 points per wound
20 GS with toxin sacs - 17.8 wounds, 18 points per wound

It might be interesting to use Tyrant Guard in a Leviathan detachement next to a Hive Tyrant. The HT can roll a 6+ FNP for every wound, transfer it to the TG and they again can take the 6+ FNP for every wound. This makes the overall unit very durable.

Problem is tyrant guard are meant to die if they do their job properly so I'm not sure about spending points on them. You can always drop them in and ignore their ability to keep a tyrant alive but then then you need that 9" charge or they are dead. Out in the open they are not difficult to kill and with crushing claws they are not getting near any tanks - but as a distraction they may work and soak up some high S shooting. I might give them a try but not convinced. For anti-tank I'm still leaning towards 18 hive guard to be honest but getting those models is a slow burner!

Ordered 2 boxes last night. Hope they are still in stock at GW website. Go for it! They also got a deathleaper.

How survivable is the leviathan swarmlord? Although I suppose the point is moot, even with Swarmy you want to cast the 5+ feel no paint, don't you?

But the 5+ is always best suitet for the guards as they always take the wound.

So swamlord with 3+4++6+++ hive guards 4+5++. Is it better then before?

 Niiai wrote:
No I think warriors are good. But the claim that they are the cheapest source of good high S ranged shooting just can't be right.

The usual suspects:
Hive guard electric gun. But only range 24.
Exochrine tends to be numero uno.
Tyranofex is better vs T8, exochrine is better vs every one else.
Hive guard impaler cannon has very good flexabilaty vs targets out of line of sight.
Venom warrior cannon clock in around hive guards depending on how many warriors you use to divide the price on the prime. And if you only count the venom cannon and the heavy bolter shoots other things.

Stratagems:
Warriors and Hive guards can take the double shooting. Exochrine can take extra wound.

I would also like to point out that your basic 3 warriors squad, 2 bolters and 1 venom cannon can be recreated in the carnifex with 2 S7 bolters and the heavy venom cannon. It can have BS3+ and the hard to hit.

It is hard to argue one is better then the other although the Exochrine comes out better then most, and most lists want one group of infantery for the double shooting.

I'm really not to big on the exocrine anymore. It's got great firepower - but is essentially an immobile gun platform with 36 inch range. Pretty much what this means is you have to go first or it's dead. I really don't consider that very competitive at all. The Tyrano at least has 48" range and can move and shoot if it really has to - it should never really need too though - where an exocrine is almost never in range of the targets you want to shoot at if your opponent is smart - and moving and shooting is not an option with 6 shots bs5+ on the move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
How survivable is the leviathan swarmlord? Although I suppose the point is moot, even with Swarmy you want to cast the 5+ feel no paint, don't you?

But the 5+ is always best suitet for the guards as they always take the wound.

So swamlord with 3+4++6+++ hive guards 4+5++. Is it better then before?

I always cast catalyst on my genestealers.

I am not sure I share your conserns.

Positioning:
Tyranids usually have so many drops, trying to get as many CMP as possible. This lets you place the exoshrine late. Usualy the 36" should put you within the target you want to shoot. Even if you loose your prime targets Exichrine is so cost effective vs most targets, it can garuantee shoot something you want to shoot.

The 48" range of the tyranofex negates some of these, but you do not want to move your tyranofex, same way you do not want to move your exoshrine. Your prime target can just move out of LOS.

I do not feel positioning goes a lot into the Tyranofex favour.

Survivabillaty:
Both the exoshrine and tyranofex are T8 3+ save. Tyranofex has 2 more wounds so that is points in it favour. But if the argument is 'they will just be shot down' when it is one of the most durable thing in the codex you can lay that argument at any unit that does not come in from reserves, or do not need LOS.

The survivabilaty argument is slightly in the tyranofex favour by 2 wounds, and some superior range. But I hardly think this compensates for the exoshrines superior damage ouput vs all targets but T8.

I’m going to be running a spore mine mortal wound spam brigade list. Hive fleet Jormungandr.

1 Broodlord
3 Neurothropes
2 squads of 3 rippers
2 squads of 12 genestealers /w Talons/toxin sacs/acid maw
1 squad of 10 termagants /w fleshborers
1 squad of 20 termagants /w devourers
3 squads of 1 Pyrovore
3 squads of 1 Mucolid Spore
1 squad of 3 spore mines
3 squads of 3 Biovores
1 Trygon Prime /w Infrasonic Roar and Insidious Threat warlord trait
1 Harpy /w stranglethorn cannons
3 sporocysts /w deathspitters

The idea is to maintain complete zoning control of the board while using spore mines, Mucolid spores and smites to take out key targets, and a big deepstriking blob to shred all the bubble wrap so bombs and genestealers can hit the juicy stuff. Sporocysts and mucolids drop down as a curtain to box in the enemy army, and together with the biovores just pump out as many spore mines as possible and flood the field. The Trygon brings in the Devilgaunts and pyrovores to take out any chaff, and genestealers hit the vehicles and characters. The pyrovores shield the gaunts from any melee units, the sporocysts give the rest of the army free reign to grab objectives, and there’s too many spore mines choking the field for the enemy to move effectively.

 Niiai wrote:

Survivabillaty:
Both the exoshrine and tyranofex are T8 3+ save. Tyranofex has 2 more wounds so that is points in it favour. But if the argument is 'they will just be shot down' when it is one of the most durable thing in the codex you can lay that argument at any unit that does not come in from reserves, or do not need LOS.

They're some of the most fragile things in the codex. The Exocrine in particular pays a very high price per wound and is incredibly vulnerable to lascannons, and your suggestion for dealing with their short range was to deploy them far forward in your zone when you have more drops than your opponent and so are unlikely to go first. T8 is nice but it doesn't actually protect against the most common anti-tank weapons, and they're still more vulnerable than a typical Hive Tyrant to overcharged plasma.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Niiai wrote:

Survivabillaty:
Both the exoshrine and tyranofex are T8 3+ save. Tyranofex has 2 more wounds so that is points in it favour. But if the argument is 'they will just be shot down' when it is one of the most durable thing in the codex you can lay that argument at any unit that does not come in from reserves, or do not need LOS.

They're some of the most fragile things in the codex. The Exocrine in particular pays a very high price per wound and is incredibly vulnerable to lascannons, and your suggestion for dealing with their short range was to deploy them far forward in your zone when you have more drops than your opponent and so are unlikely to go first. T8 is nice but it doesn't actually protect against the most common anti-tank weapons, and they're still more vulnerable than a typical Hive Tyrant to overcharged plasma.

Okay.. interesting.

36" range vs 16" move + 18" range guns.

12 Str 7 ap 3 shots (or 8 hits or 4 wounds or 6.68 damage, vs a 'tank") Or... 2.2 damage with a flyrant. Both do the same damage vs Marines.

So the double shots are good but.. not hugely essential? Now the Tyrant can DS and has a 4++, not to mention the physic powers.

The 4++ on the Hive Tyrant is enormously good against the usual anti-tank weapons.

Razerous wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Niiai wrote:

Survivabillaty:
Both the exoshrine and tyranofex are T8 3+ save. Tyranofex has 2 more wounds so that is points in it favour. But if the argument is 'they will just be shot down' when it is one of the most durable thing in the codex you can lay that argument at any unit that does not come in from reserves, or do not need LOS.

They're some of the most fragile things in the codex. The Exocrine in particular pays a very high price per wound and is incredibly vulnerable to lascannons, and your suggestion for dealing with their short range was to deploy them far forward in your zone when you have more drops than your opponent and so are unlikely to go first. T8 is nice but it doesn't actually protect against the most common anti-tank weapons, and they're still more vulnerable than a typical Hive Tyrant to overcharged plasma.

Okay.. interesting.

36" range vs 16" move + 18" range guns.

12 Str 7 ap 3 shots (or 8 hits or 4 wounds or 6.68 damage, vs a 'tank") Or... 2.2 damage with a flyrant. Both do the same damage vs Marines.

So the double shots are good but.. not hugely essential? Now the Tyrant can DS and has a 4++, not to mention the physic powers.

Tyrant does a lot of damage in CC. 1 round of MRC and smite does more damage than an exocrine.

 Astmeister wrote:


It might be interesting to use Tyrant Guard in a Leviathan detachement next to a Hive Tyrant. The HT can roll a 6+ FNP for every wound, transfer it to the TG and they again can take the 6+ FNP for every wound. This makes the overall unit very durable.

Is this accurate? Does this indeed grant 2 Fnp saves. The way the way it reads the sequencing would be as follows:

Swarmlord takes wounds, fails saves
Swarmlord takes Feel no pain save and fails
Then Body Guard rule comes into play and on 2+ TG takes Mortal Wound
Now the model gets another FnP to avoid?
This seems really good.

Only 4 attacks with the Tyrant, okay strength?

changemod wrote:
Do Tyrant Guard have much use now? I notice their attacks have gone up to 3 each if nothing else. Could maybe be loose terminator equivalents in Jormungandr with their higher toughness and save plus crushing claws?

Only if you use them at full effect and deepstrike 6 of them with 3 (and maybe swarmlord) flying hive tyrants within 3 inch. Make sure they're jormungandr and give them catalyst.

Shooting at the hive tyrant? That's a 3+/4++ save with a 5+ catalyst/feel no pain backup on a 2+(look out sarge!)
Shooting at the tyrant guard? That's a 2+ with 5+ catalyst/feel no pain

With deep striking hive tyrants it's possible to use them again as a hive tyrant bomb.You do have to make sure you got the space to do so.

Give them devourers and the really clear the bubble wrap.

 Dynas wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:


It might be interesting to use Tyrant Guard in a Leviathan detachement next to a Hive Tyrant. The HT can roll a 6+ FNP for every wound, transfer it to the TG and they again can take the 6+ FNP for every wound. This makes the overall unit very durable.

Is this accurate? Does this indeed grant 2 Fnp saves. The way the way it reads the sequencing would be as follows:

Swarmlord takes wounds, fails saves
Swarmlord takes Feel no pain save and fails
Then Body Guard rule comes into play and on 2+ TG takes Mortal Wound
Now the model gets another FnP to avoid?
This seems really good.

I think that is how it works. You can combine with the core rulebook 6+++.(Not on the swarmlord obviusly.) However, if it is your opponents turn I do believe he gets to choose the order so he shurly oprs for the 2+ hive guard first. Also, probably put the 5+ on the hive guards. A smart opponent will shoot your guards first.

str00dles1 wrote:

Sneggy wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

As for your question, they are in range for synapse yes.. And no, you cant make the conga line per the rules in the codex. It states when you spawn 10 to replace ones that died in an existing unit they need to all be within 6 of the tervigon

Max distance to maintain a conga line is 8". since 6" deployment+2" coherency.

No its 6. I didn't clarify, but the book states all models have to be wholy within 6 inches of the tervigon. any that are not are destroyed.

Deploy wholly within 6" of the Tervigon. Then you have 2" to be in coherency of the existing unit.....so the unit can be 8" away from the Tervigon