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Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

 lindsay40k wrote:
Okay, I'm sorting out my Warriors, currently building four VCs now that they're really good again with more to follow. Aiming to have two full squads with spitters, claws, hooks, max VCs. Now, way back in 3ed I built ten with claws, scytals, hooks, leaping legs. I'm happy to call their velociraptor posture a visual equivalent to Adrenal Glands, but their general loadout seems very poor. I'm thinking about adding two more same as the rest and six Stranglers, and the scytals are conversions I'm not removing. Maybe switch claws for devourers, so I've got two anti horde units and two heavier hitters?

Got some Shrikes I never got round to finishing, as well. I'd like them to be melee specialists, Behemoth traditionalist and all, but I guess they ideally want to be carrying guns?


All the assault weapons can stil shoot after you advance. But the pistols are only 1 point for 3 shots.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think Swords are the clear CC choice. Stranglers would replace your VC.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Hey guys this may be more appropriate for YMDC but I this is pretty important to consider for our charging tactics so I figured I would post it here.

Lets say I make a charge against several rhinos but cannot surround them, but sitll blow them up. I use my consolidation move to push within 2 inches, then use adrenal surge to "charge" the units that were in the rhinos. This is illegal yes? Due to not declaring a charge against them and what not.

If thats the case, say both rhinos have beserkers in them. Suddenly that unit of stealers is practically guaranteed to get blendered. Any suggestions specifically for how to deal with something like that, other than just shooting it and blowing it up earlier, then charging whats inside. Any assault shenanigans you guys have experience with or thought of?
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Pile In moves are not Charges. You may Pile In to anything you can reach; BUT in a TURN in which you have executed a CHARGE, you can only make ATTACKS against units you DECLARED the charge against.

If it enables you to tag twenty Veterans with combi-weapons, it's probably a good play. But it's not going to eat them alive until subsequent turns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for Rhinos full of Berzerkers... keep away or screen until you can nuke the Rhinos.

One Assault shenanigans is to envelop the Rhinos so the Berzerkers get baked to death.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/19 17:45:09


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Since the berserkers didnt make a charge, they can now fight also, so IDK if you really want them to get free hits on you, i would just no consolidate and make him charge that unit of gants to waste an attack turn.

   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






Here's the batreps from the Portal GT. Was 41 players, including some of the top players in the country. You can see the final results HERE. I took 9th overall, though my battle points alone had be tied for 10th with Dallas Rapoport. It's been 2 weeks so I'm gonna be a bit foggy on some details.

Every mission had a primary which was typically 4-5 objectives, winning would net you ~9 points. Secondaries were maelstrom, but you could choose your own. You picked like 2 or 3 per turn, and they varied per mission. You could try to complete them as many times as you wanted, but only receive points once (So if you said kill a char and didnt do it turn 2, you could try again turn 3). Sometimes there was a tertiary which was a modified KP, or something like that. Waited too long to write the reports.

We weren't using chap approved, so a lot of people had some lists that would be 10-30% more expensive now.

My list
Kraken Brigade
Flyrant MRC, 2x Dev, -1 to hit relic, usually no penalties to hit trait, or reroll hits against a datasheet
Flyrant MRC, 2x Dev
Neurothrope
Neurothrope

29x Horms
29x Horms
19x GS
19x GS
29x Devgants
3x Rippers

1x3 Venom
Lictor
Lictor

Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid

Trygon
Biovore
Biovore

Game 1
Death Guard
Typhus
Daemon Prince w/ claws and the relic armor
~5 nurglings
~7 plague marines in a rhino
10 poxwalkers
2 of the super flamer guys
Deredo with double autocannons and havok
Leviathan with claw, grav and heavy flamer
2x shooty blight drones
1x fleshmower blight drone

Deployment was dawn of war

Mission was 6 objectives.

Because he had such limited shooting, I deployed both stealer squads, kept 2 flyrants, lictors, 3 mucolids and dev gants in reserve. My typical deployment is GS in the middle (1 or 2 squads), horms on both sides, neuros around the edges of the GS, and venoms in the middle. Biovores and rippers back hiding somewhere. I would forget the mucolids (My first game using them). He deployed on the line, and put his nurglings right smack in the middle.
Spoiler:


He got first turn, pushed right up to me with nurglings. DS typhus and brought everything else up to the middle of the board except walkers holding back objective.
Spoiler:


Wiped out like 25 or so horms from right squad, charged the nurglings into my horms and 1 unit of GS. He apparently forgot (Despite us going over it) that I could fall back and charge.
Spoiler:


My turn, just blew by the nurglings, dropped flyrants and trygon behind him. My biggest mission was to eat Typhus and lock down the dreads. Was hoping to do critical damage to poxwalkers with dev gants and throw some wounds on the rhino, then charge it and surround it so he would be stuck. Flyrants and Trygon were going to plink damage into the rhino, but try to charge the deredo. Left side I wanted to charge his drones and keep them from being able to move around and charge me, while also hoping to do a bit of damage. I used the depleted horm squad and the lictors to eat some overwatch, allowing my GS to get in on the Leviathan. Trygon and 1 flyrant made it to deredeo. I got some of, but not all, the drones into combat. Used Venomthropes to tie up the poxwalkers. One neurothrope ate the Typhus overwatch to get stealers in safe. Even after burning adrenaline surge, Typhus survived, and his bloat drones took barely any damage. The Trygon, however, completely annihilated the Deredeo. I don't think I even bothered with reroll wounds. In return I lost a neurothrope, a good amount of left stealers and horms.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:


His turn 2 his prince flew back towards dev gants, and the rhino emptied out. The two monster flamer dudes went with prince to try to kill my warlord, plague marines got onto the ruins to do some shooting. Typhus was wrapped up by a few horms that had pile into him and the rhino, and couldn't fall back. Leviathan was totally surrounded. The drones jumped out towards the venoms, while the nurglings moved towards my biovores/rippers. He did a bunch of damage to my warlord flyrant, and I think he did manage to finish him off in combat, or he was nearly dead, but he had charged dev gants so they couldnt shoot. Venomthropes died, more GS died, Typhus died.

My turn 2, have 1 horm left from right squad, it hides around a corner from the leviathan. GS fall back off it. My left stealer squad is beat up, but still trying to use smite, and the GS to deal with the drones. Flyrant(s?) and Trygon go after the prince. Use lone horm to disable overwatch from leviathan (Was out of LOS so he couldn't overwatch), then positioned stealers to allow Trygon to come into combat safely next turn. Assault the prince with the flyrant(s) and Trygon, while dev gants charge and surround his flamer guys. He barely loses his prince, his leviathan keeps swinging, and I think at this point the fleshmower is down to like 1 wound.

His turn 3, he is still trying to get his nurglings to my biovores/rippers, and has 2 drones that cant charge but are shooting me up. My left stealer squad is almost or entirely removed.

My turn 3, I drop stealers off the leviathan to get the plague marines or drones, and get the flyrant/trygon/dev gants to it. Trygon obliterates what's left of leviathan, still having trouble removing the drones, but the left horms make it to his last poxwalker.

We were playing super fast for time, and at the end I think he had 2 damage drones left, I had a Trygon, Flyrant, dev gants, horms. I think I lost all my stealers, both neuros and venomthrope.

Ended up being a 19-3 victory.

He really misplayed coming straight to me. I think shooting the GS instead of horms wouldn't have changed much, 1 squad spent most of the game just holding stuff down, and the horms actually would have done that better. Overall it was a bad matchup for him.

Game 2
SM+SOB, Patrick Mcaneeny
Guilleman
Tiggy
JP captain with Teeth of Terra
Celestine

4 tac squads with lascannon
4 asscan razorbacks
Stormraven MM/TLLC/HB
6 SoB

Mission is 4 objectives, either score progressively or at the end. I don't think I can outscore him over the course of the game, so I'm going to try to go all in. There's a huge LOS and impassble piece of terrain right in the middle that has a nice corner I should be able to hide my stealers in, then easily get to him the following turn. After our last game, Pat deploys much more cautiously, using 2 tac squads and a sisters squad to try to wrap his tanks. Celestine is at the edge of his deployment on my right flank. One other tac squad is up in a building. I have celestine marked for death for a secondary. Typical deployment for me, with 1 stealer squad infesting.

Spoiler:


He gives me first turn, not interested in moving forward and getting charged like last game. I get use double advance on 1 horm squad and am 5" away from his sisters. He really misplayed his wrap, he has huge gaps between his bubble wrap and I'm going to onslaught, charge just a sister squad, blow by them and basically his whole army, shutting down all his razorbacks right off the rip. I bring up the trygon with dev gants on the right flank to gun down celestine right out the gate. I keep flyrants back because I need them to stop the stormraven, and there wasn't enough room to get my stealers in on the right, where I intend to overload his flank while the horms lock down most of his army. Shooting picks up celestine (Who comes back behind his lines) and most of a tac squad (I think I double tapped to make it happen).

Spoiler:


Of course, even with rerolling 1s AND a command reroll, I fail onslaught. I'm gutted. He totally played into my hand, and I fail an absurdly easy roll. I'm pretty confident this is going to cost me the entire game, but, the guns he will be forced to put into the horms may buy me enough time to get both stealer squads into his lines. Catalyst goes on the horms, in hopes of eating more firepower.

His turn 1 he blows by my horms with stormraven, looking to pick up as much of my backfield as possible in one go, while having the hurricanes available to target the horms. He shifts back and away from my right, and focuses on the horms. He manages to erase the whole squad, but it takes essentially all of his shooting. He picks up both biovores with the stormraven.

Ouch. But, both stealer squads are okay, I can still make this work.

My turn 2, I drop the flyrants in the backfield to deal with the stormraven and the captain within. Trygon double advances, looking to onslaught and use him to eat overwatch on a razorback, as well as eat it. Central GS advance right up beside the building, looking to hit the sisters and some razorbacks. Reserve GS pop up behind Trygon.

Spoiler:


Onslaught goes off, catalyst on the central GS squad. I smite and scream as much as I can at the flier... and take 2 perils for 3 damage each... I am getting really pissed at my dice by this point. There's a decent chance the streaming table behind me is picking up my tirade about how I'd prefer to be taken to dinner before I get fethed. The flier takes around 7 damage or so.

Shooting is pretty weak, I fail to pick up the last lascannon from the right squad, I do maybe 1 or 2 damage to the flier.

Assault the Trygon takes a few wounds but makes the charge, central stealers make an okay charge that won't get them as far as I need, and reserve stealers don't make it, even after a reroll. Lictor as well. One flyrant makes the charge.

I manage to eat one razorback and the sisters squad, and lock up one of the razorbacks. I'm pretty sure his flier survived on its lowest damage tier.

Not a great turn. I *really* needed my second stealer squad, or a better charge roll for my central squad. Also needed to kill that stormraven. Bad advance rolls kept most of the dev gants from shooting. Overall a really painful turn. I just can't get any momentum, I'm failing on lots of things that are low probability, but I'm also failing on more than my share of high probability things. I'm getting frustrated and losing sight of my secondaries, as I'm trying to figure out how I can get through his right flank to cripple him and win overall.

Spoiler:


His turn 2

He falls back where he has to, and unloads his shooting into the central stealers with lascannons into the Trygon. Trygon dies to like 3 lascannons, most of the central stealers and horms die to shooting/assault. The captain jumps after my neurothrope/venomthropes, and with the swing twice stratagem kills the neuro. The flier does some mixed damage to my flyrants.

Man, his damage is just so high. Taking like 6 mortal wounds on GS from Guilleman, high lascannon damage output, etc. I'm making feth all for saves where I can.

My turn 3

I bring other lictor in far back on left flank behind terrain to hop out later. Flyrants move to be able to deal with flier and captain as best we can. Reserve stealers move up to charge as much as I can. I manage to get the flier and the captian, but take THREE MORE DAMAGE from ANOTHER perils on my warlord. I've now taken 9 damage from 3 perils across 4 psychic tests. Dev gants are really struggling, I need his infantry alive to charge, and shooting razorbacks is pretty negligible.

Assaults I get reserve stealers in and I just cannot do enough damage. Even with a fight twice, I manage to take down tiggy and a few tac marines. A little damage to Guilleman. Cannot get where I need to because of poor charge ranges to lock up the vehicles. In return my GS are basically crippled, and he is basically free to do whatever.

Game is as good as over. I have failed probably 75% of my invulns on flyrants. Cannot get off critical charges or psychic powers, and have eaten 9 damage from perils. Rest of the game is him just doing clean up, with me being tabled at the bottom of 5 or 6, I can't remember. I manage a 19-10 loss, simply because the mission allowed me to score a lot based on kills throughout the game.

Spoiler:


Even if I had been thinking more about the mission, I don't think I could have played different to win. I just failed in too many important rolls. The onslaught on turn 1 alone would have completely changed the game. Even a 7" charge would have been enough to get me in position to stop shooting from almost all of his army. With the position of the sisters, I would have almost certainly had one locked, and he would have only been able to do damage in assault. With Catalyst, I figure I'd come out of assault with 10-15 horms left. More than enough to fall back and do charge shenanigans and lock up 2+ razorbacks again the following turn, or surround Guilleman and keep him zoned off the GS. The only way I could have played it different was to do the score as the game goes, and then just dance outside the 24" range of his guns, waiting for him to move up and try basically the same thing, but having turn 1 meant I could try to get in first without taking any shooting. It was the right play, but dice are dice and they decided I was just not going to make it. A very frustrating game.

Game 3
Iron Warriors
3x JP lords, 1 with murder sword, 1 or 2 with combi plas. Warlord has IW fearless aura trait.
4x10 cultists
7x3 oblits
3x1 spawn

Mission is relic primary, secondary maelstrom.

I put both stealer squads in infestation, spread horms, spores and biovores out to make it impossible to DS behind me. I have 3 infestation markers about 1" behind my horm lines, and 1 deep into my deployment zone. He does the same with the spawn, cultists and his warlord. We're both basically playing chicken with our reserves. Difference is, by giving me turn 1, I'm going to get the relic.

Turn 1 I run out with a horm and grab the relic. I taunt him to come after me.

Spoiler:


He doesn't. He does nothing on his turn 1.

My turn 2, I shift some horms, but maintain the shape. I am holding central objective, while moving relic back. Trying to score maelstroms while baiting him.

He decides that waiting isn't going to get him any points, as I've scored 2/2 maelstrom both turns, and he's scored like 1 each turn. He brings everything in on my left flank.

Spoiler:


Most squads are back a little, but a lord and 1 squad are right at 9" from my horms, who have an infestation node about 1" behind them. It's looking like I'll infest about 4" away from him, then have an easy charge, where I can surround him, do minimum damage, then overrun and adrenaline on his turn.

His shooting wipes out like 29 horms from the relic squad, and ~25 from the other. I leave the one relic horm and the handful infront of the node. The relic horm is out of synapse, which he confirms, and so he doesn't bother shooting it again as I'll die to morale. Then he makes the charge with his lord and the oblits into my left horm squad... which picks up my nodes . Couldn't believe I didn't consider the impact of a charge. What a moron I am sometimes. I could have left models outside of 12", or only close to one of the markers, but instead I kept them perfectly so he could get within 9" of two. Damn. I unsurprisingly lose all the horms. He's dismayed when I spend 2 CP to not run with the horms. No point in bringing a brigade if I don't use the CP!

My turn 3

Well, now we gotta get to work. Relic horm falls back to a neurothrope to give it the relic when he dies. I bring in one stealer squad, and while setting up the second, decide its not time and keep them out(Yep, I had a brainfart about it being 3 and the losing reserves rule. I had been telling myself the whole beginning that I had to bait him out before 3, otherwise I would have to come out, then he could alpha strike me). Dev gants come in on the center of the board. Flyrants land on my right of his deployment zone, working on the spawn and staying outside of advance+shooting range of the oblits. I'm not sure I can tie up ALL of his oblits in one go, assuming I make my charge, so I need to mitigate incoming damage.

Spoiler:


Psychic and shooting picks up two spawn. Catalyst on stealers. Dev gants pick up the JP lord, but dont do much (any?) damage to oblits.

I lead with the lictor into the oblits, and survive with 1 wound, locking them. The stealers get a big charge and I easily manage to surround them. Perfect. I am swinging with two, and then locking the whole unit. Dev gants charge into oblits to try to minimize his shooting and maybe keep the Trygon up.

Spoiler:


His turn 3

He picks up the Trygon (Surprise!), and does very little otherwise. Charging some cultists into gants, he beats the squad up a bit, and he kills off the relic horm. During assault I wipe oblits, overrun and adrenaline surge into a bunch of oblits, bringing two squads down to half.

My turn 4

Stealers and dev gants fall back, flyrants move up towards cultists. Neurothrope picks up relic and they move up to start smiting.

I go to bring in stealers... and remember its turn 4. I inform my opponent they're destroyed. He disagrees, he says that's not a rule. I insist, and check the reinforcements section to make sure, but he's adamant. Of course, there's nothing in the reinforcements section, I look for a judge, but with none in the room (We were in the secondary room), he says don't worry about it. So, I bring them in with a lictor.

Kill some cultists with shooting/smites, get catalyst on the first GS squad, a little smite damage here and there.

I use dev gants to minimize his oblit overwatch, but pile them mostly into cultists. I lose the new lictor to overwatch, and a few GS, but a 9" gets them to the 2 damaged oblit squads. The first stealer squad has spread out immensely, and still has like 17 models. It charges just 1 or 2 oblits and some cultists, but piles in to every oblit squad just to shut down his shooting, as I only need to buy 1 turn for my flyrants to get into the oblits, and I should be able to start running through the squads with melee.

Ironically, the stealers that shouldnt be there do terribly, and only a few oblits die. The other stealers also do poorly, and kill a few GS. He swings everything on the first stealer squad, and I'm left with 9 models.

Spoiler:


His turn 4 he does no damage to the flyrants, and actually loses his warlord to overcharged plasma (-1 to hit on my warlord flyrant ftw). In assault oblits manage to kill a few of the 9 man squad, but there are still ~4 left holding all but 1 of the 3 man oblit squads. Nevermind the dev gants (A handful left) and the new stealers. Time runs out, so we talk out turn 5 and run the points.

Ended up 19-2 or so for me. Not bad recovery for last game of the first day. As soon as I got home I busted out my big rule book and found the reserves rule (It's a matched play rule). I felt terrible, I knew it was a rule, but because it was favorable to me I went with his interpretation. I sat down, pulled out the pics and played the match over in my head. My conclusion was that even without that squad, we were out of time at the end of HIS 4. Between the dev gants and the 9 man stealer, he would have had to kill like 5 more stealers to get ANY oblits free for his turn 4. I killed 4 oblits with the illegal squad, with 12 attacks, 8 hits, 6 wounds, 5+/5+++ saves, I should have lost about 3. Variance in his favor, 5 was possible, but a little unlikely. So, the following day, as soon as I got to the venue I pulled him to the side and explained the situation. We walked through turns 3/4, and he agreed, it didn't actually change the game. If we'd had more time, it could have definitely made a difference, but, with us running out of time when we did, it didn't matter. Personally, I think that even without the second stealer squad, I had enough dev gants and my neurothropes were close enough that he would have not been shooting at the flyrants, while I would have been charging into locked squads.

Overall we had a blast, we were laughing and joking the whole game. His list was the kind that doesn't sound great on paper, but when its time to put stuff on the board, it always feels like walking on razor's edge. If he had known about the turn 3 reserves rule, he could have just waited me out, and dropped to blast my stealers. However, doing that I probably would have wrapped up all of his oblits with horms and kept him there the whole game. The end result is probably about the same. We figured his best bet probably would have been to use cultists as a screen and drop oblits behind them, blast out stealers then try to minimize the lock ups I could cause.

I'll try to get day 2 done here in a few days. Sorry it's been so slow.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/12/20 14:54:24


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Texas

Dumb question perhaps: is the -1 to hit relic the Kraken Chameleon trait? How do you have that twice?

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*I'm on Bartertown as Dynas 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

I'm super shocked your Trygons lived as long as they did, honestly. Mine always get blown up the turn they come on, or the very next game turn if i went second.

Do you find that having a monstrous bio cannon on a flyrant would have helped or hindered? Specifically the HVC.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/19 22:16:20


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I played a local four game event on Saturday, with around 16-20 players attending. I took a Jormundr/Kronos Swarmlord+'stealers build and went 1W, 2L, 1D. The event used the ITC missions and new FAQ's.

My army constisted of (Jormungdr) Swarmlord+pod, 2x1 Neurothrope, 2x19 'stealers, 1x27 Termagant with devourers, 2x3 rending claw Raveners, (Kronos) 2x1 Neurothrope, 2x3 Rippers, 2x4 impaler cannon Hive Guard. The overall plan was to deploy the Hive Guard and Rippers out of line of sight and forward of the Neurothropes to counter alpha strikes, and to deep strike the rest, using the devourers to clear out screening units and the Swarmlord+'stealer combo to delete key units. The event did not permit duplicate detachments, and I only have 8 Hive Guard, so the Kronos detachment ended up being a patrol. If I could have had duplicate detachments, I would have dropped the rending claws on the Raveners and added 3rd Ripper unit to the Kronos detachment to make it a Battalion.

I played against IG, Chaos, Chaos, and IG. Easily half of the armies present were one of those two factions, with the rest being mostly Marines. There was a strong Tyranid presence, with several different builds, which pleased me to see, and a single Tau drone army, who did quite well.

My first game was against an IG player who outflanks? a Shadowsword + support tanks, with lots of drop squads and a light backfield. I have played him at every event I've gone to in the last two months, so I have a good idea of what his list does. I went first, leaving a unit of 'stealers in the infestation nodes, cleared out a big chunk of his backline, including most of his Mortars, then lost my assault force to the superheavy's shooting. Between the two of us we threw so many dice and deployed so many units that it took over an hour to finish the first turn. We then traded some small units in the second turn, as he couldn't touch my backfield but I couldn't get my second stealer squad into combat. Game ended at this point on time (2 hour rounds), with the score being 21 to 21.

My second and third games were vs. almost identical Chaos lists. Poxwalkers, Typhus, Morty, Mortars. One of them had some 'zerkers in a Dreadclaw, the other had extra Blight Drones. In both games I alpha'd the Poxwalkers, 'stealer charged the big guys, and the Hive Guard failed to hurt the Mortars, who ate them alive. I had one win and one loss, with the loss being heavily impacted by me not realizing just how much punishment his units could take and under committing my forces. Both were close games, with the most memorable moment being when Swarmy and 19 'stealers got the charge on a wounded Morty. Swarmy did all but one wound, the stealers finished him, and I got two extra CP out of it.

The third game was against an armor heavy IG player. I was pretty burned out, and didn't bother with about a third of my game, skipping shooting the 'gants a few times and letting my infestation nodes get removed before a the 'stealers came out of them to avoid having to take the time to set up the unit. I ended up losing by one point, so I'm reasonably confident I could have won the game had it not been the final game of an event I was not going to place in.

Overall, I liked how the army played. The Hive Guard did what they should have, I was charging the targets I wanted to the turn I wanted to, and the Swarmlord made it past first turn shooting much more often than I thought he would. The combo basically means I have to do 600-700 points of damage in the first turn to get value, and I feel like I did 600-700 points worth of damage consistently. (The logic is that Swarmlord, pod, and either 'stealers or the devilgants will get killed in one turn, so I have to do enough damage on the alpha strike to make it worth losing them).

I feel that hiding Hive Guard is our best option for Kronos anti-tank shooting, simply because of how easy it is to loose 2-3 gun beasts in a single turn of shooting. I can giving up Kronos for always in cover and using a Malenthrope to give a gunline that sweet -1 to hit 2+ save, but I lack Malenthropes and don't think Venomthropes will work for it, so I haven't been able to try it out.

I liked having the infestation node Genestealers for counter charges and clearing out deep strikers, but they are expensive. I also realized that occupying backfield space is really important in 8th. I spent some time after the event thinking that my assumption that both 'stealer squads should be in reserve is a error, and that I should deploy one of them instead. This made me consider running Horma's instead of the second 'stealer squad, which would provide interesting flexibility and net me some spare points, possibly for poison on the 'stealers.




   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






 Dynas wrote:
Dumb question perhaps: is the -1 to hit relic the Kraken Chameleon trait? How do you have that twice?


It's the kraken relic, not the kraken warlord trait. I have it on my warlord flyrant.

The Kraken trait is the one that lets a unit within 6" fight first.

 Marmatag wrote:
I'm super shocked your Trygons lived as long as they did, honestly. Mine always get blown up the turn they come on, or the very next game turn if i went second.

Do you find that having a monstrous bio cannon on a flyrant would have helped or hindered? Specifically the HVC.


That is typically my experience as well. The DG matchup he wasn't able to shoot his big guns because he was locked up. The SM player I think he did some damage to it now that I think about it, I don't quite remember TBH. I know it made it to combat with a Rhino. Actually, I think it was pretty hurt when it got there and maybe it failed to kill the Rhino? Fuzzy memory on that game. The last game he got murked by oblits, as expected. I think Trygons are a very good choice, but only in a list with drop flyrants. If you don't have the flyrants, they will 100% get focused down as soon as they show up. On top of that, their charge is just not reliable enough, and unlike GS they can't spread out and grab people. So you're left with hoping for that 9" charge into whatever screen you pop up near (And if youre bringing dev gants, it's pretty standard for you to not be near something the Trygon wants to charge), after which you get shot to pieces. Yet, you get games like the DG one where enemy firepower is otherwise incapacitated, or like my nid vs nid game last tourney where they are focusing flyrants, and then Trygons can do a LOT of damage. They're so fast, and hit way harder than anything else vs tough targets, nothing else compares except GS with some kind of buff, which don't also double as a drop pod.

No, definitely no interest in the HVC. Need weight of dice. Outside of the times I roll 1s and 2s like its my job, the 12 shots are absolutely where its at. I rarely feel the need to shoot them at big stuff, and generally use them for clearing screens or dealing with fire support infantry. The MRC are absolutely crucial, those things are savage as hell for being free. The reroll to wound is so, so good. I couldn't imagine running a flyrant without a melee weapon. I am sometimes tempted to try deathspitters, but the massive damage drop isn't really worth the 6", even if there are times when it would let me shoot something that is being screened.
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






babelfish wrote:
I played a local four game event on Saturday, with around 16-20 players attending. I took a Jormundr/Kronos Swarmlord+'stealers build and went 1W, 2L, 1D. The event used the ITC missions and new FAQ's.

My army constisted of (Jormungdr) Swarmlord+pod, 2x1 Neurothrope, 2x19 'stealers, 1x27 Termagant with devourers, 2x3 rending claw Raveners, (Kronos) 2x1 Neurothrope, 2x3 Rippers, 2x4 impaler cannon Hive Guard. The overall plan was to deploy the Hive Guard and Rippers out of line of sight and forward of the Neurothropes to counter alpha strikes, and to deep strike the rest, using the devourers to clear out screening units and the Swarmlord+'stealer combo to delete key units. The event did not permit duplicate detachments, and I only have 8 Hive Guard, so the Kronos detachment ended up being a patrol. If I could have had duplicate detachments, I would have dropped the rending claws on the Raveners and added 3rd Ripper unit to the Kronos detachment to make it a Battalion.

I played against IG, Chaos, Chaos, and IG. Easily half of the armies present were one of those two factions, with the rest being mostly Marines. There was a strong Tyranid presence, with several different builds, which pleased me to see, and a single Tau drone army, who did quite well.

My first game was against an IG player who outflanks? a Shadowsword + support tanks, with lots of drop squads and a light backfield. I have played him at every event I've gone to in the last two months, so I have a good idea of what his list does. I went first, leaving a unit of 'stealers in the infestation nodes, cleared out a big chunk of his backline, including most of his Mortars, then lost my assault force to the superheavy's shooting. Between the two of us we threw so many dice and deployed so many units that it took over an hour to finish the first turn. We then traded some small units in the second turn, as he couldn't touch my backfield but I couldn't get my second stealer squad into combat. Game ended at this point on time (2 hour rounds), with the score being 21 to 21.

My second and third games were vs. almost identical Chaos lists. Poxwalkers, Typhus, Morty, Mortars. One of them had some 'zerkers in a Dreadclaw, the other had extra Blight Drones. In both games I alpha'd the Poxwalkers, 'stealer charged the big guys, and the Hive Guard failed to hurt the Mortars, who ate them alive. I had one win and one loss, with the loss being heavily impacted by me not realizing just how much punishment his units could take and under committing my forces. Both were close games, with the most memorable moment being when Swarmy and 19 'stealers got the charge on a wounded Morty. Swarmy did all but one wound, the stealers finished him, and I got two extra CP out of it.

The third game was against an armor heavy IG player. I was pretty burned out, and didn't bother with about a third of my game, skipping shooting the 'gants a few times and letting my infestation nodes get removed before a the 'stealers came out of them to avoid having to take the time to set up the unit. I ended up losing by one point, so I'm reasonably confident I could have won the game had it not been the final game of an event I was not going to place in.

Overall, I liked how the army played. The Hive Guard did what they should have, I was charging the targets I wanted to the turn I wanted to, and the Swarmlord made it past first turn shooting much more often than I thought he would. The combo basically means I have to do 600-700 points of damage in the first turn to get value, and I feel like I did 600-700 points worth of damage consistently. (The logic is that Swarmlord, pod, and either 'stealers or the devilgants will get killed in one turn, so I have to do enough damage on the alpha strike to make it worth losing them).

I feel that hiding Hive Guard is our best option for Kronos anti-tank shooting, simply because of how easy it is to loose 2-3 gun beasts in a single turn of shooting. I can giving up Kronos for always in cover and using a Malenthrope to give a gunline that sweet -1 to hit 2+ save, but I lack Malenthropes and don't think Venomthropes will work for it, so I haven't been able to try it out.

I liked having the infestation node Genestealers for counter charges and clearing out deep strikers, but they are expensive. I also realized that occupying backfield space is really important in 8th. I spent some time after the event thinking that my assumption that both 'stealer squads should be in reserve is a error, and that I should deploy one of them instead. This made me consider running Horma's instead of the second 'stealer squad, which would provide interesting flexibility and net me some spare points, possibly for poison on the 'stealers.



All of this sounds about how I expect that list to play.

One thing, Hive Guard only have a 4+ save, so they only get a 3+ with jorm. Having swapped a mal for venoms, I was really surprised at how little shooting they took-most people were too busy shooting important stuff-but as soon as they started taking fire they evaporated.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Traceoftoxin wrote:
 Dynas wrote:
Dumb question perhaps: is the -1 to hit relic the Kraken Chameleon trait? How do you have that twice?


It's the kraken relic, not the kraken warlord trait. I have it on my warlord flyrant.

The Kraken trait is the one that lets a unit within 6" fight first.


I may be wrong but I don't think you can duplicate relics.
I know you can take more than one but don't believe you can take the same one twice.

I'm somewhat surprised at both the tournament reports on this page timing out so regularly? I've found I almost always finish games in plenty of time. Any thoughts on why the game is dragging out?
Second tournament with 2hr rounds is a little tight. I don't like 4 games in a day as you usually cant be bothered by the 4th game (as displayed here) and 2hr rounds to cram them in makes all the game short.

   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Fredericksburg, Virginia

The Kraken relic and Venom/Malanthrope aura stack. That's how you get -2 to hit.

A lot of my games don't reach turn 4+. Most of them are against shooty lists where there is a lot of movement or falling back and a lot of dice rolls. The faster games are actually against other melee heavy armies. I'm not sure why but we always seem to get past turn 3.

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Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

 Zimko wrote:
The Kraken relic and Venom/Malanthrope aura stack. That's how you get -2 to hit.

A lot of my games don't reach turn 4+. Most of them are against shooty lists where there is a lot of movement or falling back and a lot of dice rolls. The faster games are actually against other melee heavy armies. I'm not sure why but we always seem to get past turn 3.
The question wasn't about stacking.

The question is how two separate hive tyrants have the same relic.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Fredericksburg, Virginia

Sorry, I don't see where that is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nvm, I see it now. Probably a typo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/20 14:09:08


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Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






It was just a typo. Only the warlord had a relic.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Texas

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
It was just a typo. Only the warlord had a relic.


Gotcha. yeah you can only take 1 of any relic.

As far as timing goes, 2.5 hours is not a lot of time to play a 2k point game. Most of mine end up being 4 hours. You really have to be constantly going and have all the stats memorized. Not reference the rule book etc...
Also, having lots of models doesn't help either.

10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
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DakkaSwap Successful Transactions: cormadepanda, pretre x3, LibertineIX, Lbcwanabe, privateer4hire, Cruentus (swap), Scatwick2 (swap), boneheadracer (swap), quickfuze (swap), Captain Brown (swap) x2, luftsb, Forgottonson, WillvonDoom, bocatt (swap)

*I'm on Bartertown as Dynas 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






 Dynas wrote:
 Traceoftoxin wrote:
It was just a typo. Only the warlord had a relic.


Gotcha. yeah you can only take 1 of any relic.

As far as timing goes, 2.5 hours is not a lot of time to play a 2k point game. Most of mine end up being 4 hours. You really have to be constantly going and have all the stats memorized. Not reference the rule book etc...
Also, having lots of models doesn't help either.


That GT was 3 hr rounds, but the last 30 min was a "death clock". As soon as you hit last 30 mins, you start a chess timer for whoever's turn it is. Each player divides the last 30 min equally, so, you have 15 min each. As soon as you end a turn, their timer starts. If I finish my turn in 5 min, then he takes 15 min, at the 15 min mark his turn ends and it immediately becomes my turn. I can then play as many turns as my time and the game allows, with him getting no turns because he used his 15 min.

I thought the rule was an interesting idea, but horribly punishing for armies that use all phases of the game. Assaults take FAR more time than shooting, and involve BOTH players, so an assault army will blow through that 15 min quickly, while the shooting army can go through turns in a few mins each. This was a problem for me in my last game.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

The death clock sounds like garbage unless you pause it when your opponent is rolling.

In 8th edition there are a lot of situations where you use "fast dice rolling" when you should actually, RAW, be rolling dice 1 at a time. Especially if the result can potentially deal 1 mortal wound, for instance, because you allocate differently in that scenario.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Texas

WIth the clock if they burn the time, you could literallly just not move anything. Do pyskers smite and shoot. Skip assault, repeat over and over. that does seem a bit odd

10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans

DakkaSwap Successful Transactions: cormadepanda, pretre x3, LibertineIX, Lbcwanabe, privateer4hire, Cruentus (swap), Scatwick2 (swap), boneheadracer (swap), quickfuze (swap), Captain Brown (swap) x2, luftsb, Forgottonson, WillvonDoom, bocatt (swap)

*I'm on Bartertown as Dynas 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Fredericksburg, Virginia

Wouldn't work for rules like ITC Champions that accumulate points every turn. It's a neat idea but maybe remove the ability to give extra turns.

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Stubborn Prosecutor





 Marmatag wrote:
The death clock sounds like garbage unless you pause it when your opponent is rolling.

In 8th edition there are a lot of situations where you use "fast dice rolling" when you should actually, RAW, be rolling dice 1 at a time. Especially if the result can potentially deal 1 mortal wound, for instance, because you allocate differently in that scenario.


It's traditional to switch the clock over when your opponent rolls. Good chess clocks just have a lever you slap. You announce the number of successful shots; Slap the clock; They roll the dice, announce the number of successes and slap the clock over.

I loved Death Clock in WMH, even if I played horde lists and probably clocked out more often than my opponent. It helps you keep that tournament mindset.


Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


https://www.victorwardbooks.com/ Home of Dark Days series 
   
Made in us
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle



Los Angeles

Hello fellow Nid players,

I am jumping back into the game and was wonder which of the following lists that you would bring and if any tweaks are necessary?

List #1 (Has 9 CP)

Kraken
Swarmlord
Flyrant with Devourer, MRC, -1 to shoot Relic
3 Tyrant Guard with RC
3 x 16 Genestealers with RC

Kronos
Malanthrope
Neurothrope
2 x 3 Rippers
30 Gaunts with 20 Devourers
2 x 1 Biovores
6 Hive Guard

List #2 (12 CP)

Kraken
Swarmlord
Neurothrope
Malanthrope
3 Tyrant Guard with RC
6 Hive Guard
Lictor
3 x 1 Mucliod Spore
3 x1 Biovore
2 x 3 Rippers
30 Gaunts with 20 Devourers
3 x 17 Genestealers with RC

So in effect, the difference in the lists is the hitting power of the Tyrant and Psychic defense, versus 3 more CP with the other list.

Thanks for any feed back!
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

That swarmlord will die fast.

   
Made in us
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle



Los Angeles

Even with the 3 tyrant guard and the Malanthrope behind him....and hopefully catalyst on the Tyrant guard?
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






At my last GT, 2 of the 3 top tyranid lists were playing swarmlord with no pod or guards. They relied on using LOS blocking terrain to keep him alive.

He'll be fine with 3 guard, for at least 1-2 turns, if you don't play him aggressively.
   
Made in ca
Tunneling Trygon






With ITC levels of LOS blocking terrain I think you can hide a normal swarmlord model fairly easily, the big question imo is if he is worth using for his points. I have been very happy not using him so far, and feel I haven't suffered in mobility whatsoever.


 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
At my last GT, 2 of the 3 top tyranid lists were playing swarmlord with no pod or guards. They relied on using LOS blocking terrain to keep him alive.

He'll be fine with 3 guard, for at least 1-2 turns, if you don't play him aggressively.


I saw one of those lists. It waw more focused on board controll than yours. Making him come to you.

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Traceoftoxin wrote:At my last GT, 2 of the 3 top tyranid lists were playing swarmlord with no pod or guards. They relied on using LOS blocking terrain to keep him alive.

He'll be fine with 3 guard, for at least 1-2 turns, if you don't play him aggressively.


jifel wrote:With ITC levels of LOS blocking terrain I think you can hide a normal swarmlord model fairly easily, the big question imo is if he is worth using for his points. I have been very happy not using him so far, and feel I haven't suffered in mobility whatsoever.


If you don't use the 'hive commander' ability specifically to bypass the bubblewrap after the devourergaunts removed them, then its better to use these points for something else. 300 points in the back so that you can torpedo units forward is a bit to much for my taste.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Whether or not to use the Swarmlord seems to be the #1 question for Nids. The power of a first turn charge with 20 stealers or 30 hormagaunts is just immense. It's less about what they kill and much more about the effect of tying up multiple enemy units so they can't shoot back at your big scary dudes as they advance. Really tough call.
   
 
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