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2018/01/02 15:55:20
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I am, still, in the proces of painting 18 warriors. I finalt got to order the last 3 warriors, and I added some more bone swords to them.
However, in this process I thought mayby I could make some 9 more warriors, and then in ecah squad have 3 warriors with scything tallons and spinefists, just to buy 'more wounds' for the squad. Each of these extra hit points would only come at the price of 22 (as I am running adrenaline glands.) Although for 27 you get the bolter and sword, so maiby not.
So, I started dipping my toes into the Genestealers Cult quite recently so have obviously tooken an interest in the Tyranids as well. I have never played nids before and every time I go to make a list I am honestly over whelmed by the amount of units that are available per section (e.g. troops, Heavy Support etc). I was wondering if I suggested what I have available could you guys help me out with making an effective 500-1000pt list so I can learn it back to front and go on from there.
I currently have access to;
1 Tyranids Swarm Boxs,
2 Old Start Collecting box
2 sets of Space Hulk Genestealers and Broollords
Carnifex/Old One Eye,
15 Gargoylles and 20 Hormagaunts and 20 Termagants.
Based on what you have, you could probably cobble together a rush list fairly easily. I'd probably start with a core of 2x Winged Hive Tyrants, 60 Hormagaunts, and 30 Gargoyles. Genestealers are excellent blenders, but since you don't have any dedicated delivery options you might be better served running them as Genestealer Cult Purestrain Genestealers with the Space Hulk Broodlords acting as Patriarchs (models are about the same size so can be used as a fill-in).
2018/01/02 19:28:58
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Based on what you have, you could probably cobble together a rush list fairly easily. I'd probably start with a core of 2x Winged Hive Tyrants, 60 Hormagaunts, and 30 Gargoyles. Genestealers are excellent blenders, but since you don't have any dedicated delivery options you might be better served running them as Genestealer Cult Purestrain Genestealers with the Space Hulk Broodlords acting as Patriarchs (models are about the same size so can be used as a fill-in).
Bear in mind that the price for purestrain genestealers hasn't been dropped and don't have access to Acid Maw.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
Amishprn86 wrote: I haven't played with warriors yet, but that sb.c i havent remodeled mine still from 5th ed.
I was going to play a large amount of them soon (i mean play them many times in many games).
From what i've seen/math i 100% sure i'm just going to do BS/DS's.
I do like HC and HVC a lot but i have 2 Harpies and HT's for that.
I've been using a squad of 9 with 3 VC and 6 DS and all have bone swords and adrenal glands out of a trygon - then I run a prime up to meet them. It's pretty amazing how much damage they put out when they shoot twice and pull off a charge.
I have 9? Shrieks i'm thinking about using a Swarmlord with them and seeng what they can do also.
Niiai wrote: I am, still, in the proces of painting 18 warriors. I finalt got to order the last 3 warriors, and I added some more bone swords to them.
However, in this process I thought mayby I could make some 9 more warriors, and then in ecah squad have 3 warriors with scything tallons and spinefists, just to buy 'more wounds' for the squad. Each of these extra hit points would only come at the price of 22 (as I am running adrenaline glands.) Although for 27 you get the bolter and sword, so maiby not.
I was thinking along the same lines when I was building my squads, which were 6 DS and 3 BS models for 9 models. Honestly though, "buying more wounds" doesn't seem worth it when the model is 22 points vs. only 3 points more for another Warrior with a Deathspitter. I'm starting to think Deathspitters all day every day for my army. The Deathspitters start doing damage from the get-go for only 3 points.
In the end, Bonesword models are 4 Attacks at S4 -2 in Combat.
Deathspitters are 3 Shots at 24" S5 -1, plus 3 Attacks at S4 -0 in Combat.
So a 6 attack potential compared to 4, three of which are higher Strength and don't require being within 1" of the enemy.
Based on what you have, you could probably cobble together a rush list fairly easily. I'd probably start with a core of 2x Winged Hive Tyrants, 60 Hormagaunts, and 30 Gargoyles. Genestealers are excellent blenders, but since you don't have any dedicated delivery options you might be better served running them as Genestealer Cult Purestrain Genestealers with the Space Hulk Broodlords acting as Patriarchs (models are about the same size so can be used as a fill-in).
Bear in mind that the price for purestrain genestealers hasn't been dropped and don't have access to Acid Maw.
Thanks for the tips N8.
What Hive fleet would suit the models you recommend? What would you recommend I get to beef it up. Also, I can get my hands on some Biovores and spores, they any good this edition?
ChargerIIC
I think 20 Purestrain Genestealers buffed by Might from Beyond (+1 A and S) and with an Acolyte Iconward with the Relic (+1 S) can do a lot more damage then Genestealers w/ Acid Maws.
5 Genestealers w/ Acid Maws produce 20 s4 -3 D1 attacks. The other 15 are then doing 60 s4 -1 D1 with 6+ to wound becoming -4.
20 Purestrain Genestealers with maximum support dole out 100 S6 -1 D1 attacks with 6+ to wound becoming - 4.
Biovores are great this edition. Easy mortal wounds, and misses are actually often better than hits as they either force the enemy to shoot them (wasting shooting just to deny the wound), move around them, or allow themselves to be hit.
As for what you should get to add, you have loads of troops: hive guard with impaler cannons are a great option for anti-tank, trygon/prime for getting genestealers in close (if you don't go for the GSC patrol instead), make one of those hive tyrants into a swarmlord if you can.
You have a boatload of tyranids, mainly just need to figure out which big bugs you want to run next to your large groups of horms/terms/gargoyles.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/02 22:06:11
The executions will continue until morale improves
2018/01/02 22:56:42
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I think 20 Purestrain Genestealers buffed by Might from Beyond (+1 A and S) and with an Acolyte Iconward with the Relic (+1 S) can do a lot more damage then Genestealers w/ Acid Maws.
5 Genestealers w/ Acid Maws produce 20 s4 -3 D1 attacks. The other 15 are then doing 60 s4 -1 D1 with 6+ to wound becoming -4.
20 Purestrain Genestealers with maximum support dole out 100 S6 -1 D1 attacks with 6+ to wound becoming - 4.
The purestrains cost 25% more points than hive fleet genestealers, and are also relying on a couple of support units to get those buffs. They're nice buffs, but you're paying a lot for them.
The hive fleet genestealers get some pretty awesome bonuses just for being in a detachment (Krakens super advance, plus fall back and charge in the same turn is utterly amazing for genestealers).
Plus they have their own support units and psychic powers (catalyst is great defensively, along with -1 to hit bonuses from malan/venomthropes)
Not to mention being troops rather than elites.
For now at least, until GSC get their codex, hive fleet genestealers are a fair bit better.
2018/01/03 09:11:45
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
What Hive fleet would suit the models you recommend? What would you recommend I get to beef it up. Also, I can get my hands on some Biovores and spores, they any good this edition?
Kraken is probably going to go best with the rush list, being both the fastest adaptation and allowing your units to leave combat and still assault. Most of the units in the hypothetical core have Fly, so the adaptation means those units can more or less act normally after leaving combat.
Biovores are very good, though are less a damage dealer than a utility piece. Their ability to drop Spore Mines anywhere allows you to control enemy movement and interfere with certain abilities (Smite being a big one). That said, Spores do mortal wounds, so they are surprisingly handy against big targets and armored infantry.
Spoletta wrote: Do not underestimate the built in deep strike on those stealer though.
More or less this. Hive Fleet Genestealers are cheaper but they rely on other units to deliver them at full strength which brings the total cost up to the point that the two are more or less equal. Purestrains also can go back into ambush via Return to Shadows to reposition if needed. In either case though, Odrankt said he was wanting to run Tyranids alongside GSC so it made sense to consider them given his Tyranid collection doesn't have any Tunnelers or Tyrannocytes to act as delivery systems.
2018/01/03 20:16:50
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The purestrains cost 25% more points than hive fleet genestealers, and are also relying on a couple of support units to get those buffs. They're nice buffs, but you're paying a lot for them.
The hive fleet genestealers get some pretty awesome bonuses just for being in a detachment (Krakens super advance, plus fall back and charge in the same turn is utterly amazing for genestealers).
Plus they have their own support units and psychic powers (catalyst is great defensively, along with -1 to hit bonuses from malan/venomthropes)
Not to mention being troops rather than elites.
For now at least, until GSC get their codex, hive fleet genestealers are a fair bit better.
While 20 Purestrain cost 320pts compared to 20 NidStealers that cost 240pts (80pt cheaper) I still think Purestrain are better if not tougher. Icon Acolyte is only 53pts and he gives 6+ FnP to models within 6" of him and +1 S to units with 6". So for 373 you now have Purestrains who are S5 -1 D1 with the 6+ FnP. Patriarch will make this "Deathstar" 520-30pts but he allows them +1 to hit and can cast either Might from Beyond for +1 A and S or can cast Mass Hypnosis which stops the enemy target from Overwatch, fighting 1st and a -1 to hit until the next phase.
Combo might be expensive and take up a 1/4 if your armies points but youl have a T6-5 Melee killer that will make up for the points you spent.
Also, my main army is Necrons so I am used to dumping loads of points just to get good units lol
If your looking for strong/reliable CC units then GSC Aberrants are your new best friend. If equipped with Hammers they are S10 -3 D 3 w/ -1 to hit. Put these bad boys with an Acolyte and Primus for +1 S (S12 -3 D 3), 6+ FnP and +1 to hit from the Primus. Or, run them in a Supreme Command detach to get these guys, Iconward, Primus and Magus. Do as above but use the Magus to either cast Mass Hypnosis to not get Overwatched or Might from Beyond to make them S14. Youl wound most things on 2+ and doing a flat 3 dmg per wound is always nice.
I posted this on Tyranid Hive board, come to share this.
I've been thinking, Flyrant with 2 pairs of talon takes Mind Eater WL trait going on a characters-hunting mission. Unlike Overrun stratagem this trait doesn't restrict you to move within 1" of enemy unit in Fight phase.
So vs list with alots of Characters like IG you can do like DS, charge and kill a character, move to within 1" of another nearby character (easy to do with 16" + D6" + 1"), activate Adrenaline Surge to kill that character. Then move again to lock-in combat with other stuff like tanks.
2018/01/04 10:31:09
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The purestrains cost 25% more points than hive fleet genestealers, and are also relying on a couple of support units to get those buffs. They're nice buffs, but you're paying a lot for them.
The hive fleet genestealers get some pretty awesome bonuses just for being in a detachment (Krakens super advance, plus fall back and charge in the same turn is utterly amazing for genestealers).
Plus they have their own support units and psychic powers (catalyst is great defensively, along with -1 to hit bonuses from malan/venomthropes)
Not to mention being troops rather than elites.
For now at least, until GSC get their codex, hive fleet genestealers are a fair bit better.
While 20 Purestrain cost 320pts compared to 20 NidStealers that cost 240pts (80pt cheaper) I still think Purestrain are better if not tougher. Icon Acolyte is only 53pts and he gives 6+ FnP to models within 6" of him and +1 S to units with 6". So for 373 you now have Purestrains who are S5 -1 D1 with the 6+ FnP. Patriarch will make this "Deathstar" 520-30pts but he allows them +1 to hit and can cast either Might from Beyond for +1 A and S or can cast Mass Hypnosis which stops the enemy target from Overwatch, fighting 1st and a -1 to hit until the next phase.
Combo might be expensive and take up a 1/4 if your armies points but youl have a T6-5 Melee killer that will make up for the points you spent.
Also, my main army is Necrons so I am used to dumping loads of points just to get good units lol
If your looking for strong/reliable CC units then GSC Aberrants are your new best friend. If equipped with Hammers they are S10 -3 D 3 w/ -1 to hit. Put these bad boys with an Acolyte and Primus for +1 S (S12 -3 D 3), 6+ FnP and +1 to hit from the Primus. Or, run them in a Supreme Command detach to get these guys, Iconward, Primus and Magus. Do as above but use the Magus to either cast Mass Hypnosis to not get Overwatched or Might from Beyond to make them S14. Youl wound most things on 2+ and doing a flat 3 dmg per wound is always nice.
The purestrain g stealers are 300, not 320 i believe. The problem with stacking the above auraes is that they need to roll the same reserve dice. That can be hard to do. With so much invested you want to use a primus with the new stratagem to deliver them. That is 375 points. You also need to remove chaff as everyone bundels up vs tyranids.
Alternativly you can for those points just run 2 units of nids stealers of 15 for 360 points.
What do you think about the death-leaper? He is kind of interesting. Not so much for his ability to set up really close characters but for the ability to set up even closer to other things. Plus he's -2 to hit all the time.
Is he just too expensive and too easy to counter? IDK.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2018/01/04 18:41:55
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Xenomancers wrote: What do you think about the death-leaper? He is kind of interesting. Not so much for his ability to set up really close characters but for the ability to set up even closer to other things. Plus he's -2 to hit all the time.
Is he just too expensive and too easy to counter? IDK.
Deathleaper lost the ability to set up right next to characters in the codex. Now it just deepstrikes normally, but with a re-roll to charge. Same as regular lictors. It's basically just a regular lictor, but slightly better. Unfortunately it's still pretty bad. It's supposed to be a character hunter, but doesn't do enough damage for that job.
One of the poorer units in the codex I'd say.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/04 18:44:39
0020/02/25 18:52:02
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Xenomancers wrote: What do you think about the death-leaper? He is kind of interesting. Not so much for his ability to set up really close characters but for the ability to set up even closer to other things. Plus he's -2 to hit all the time.
Is he just too expensive and too easy to counter? IDK.
Deathleaper lost the ability to set up right next to characters in the codex. Now it just deepstrikes normally, but with a re-roll to charge. Same as regular lictors.
It's basically just a regular lictor, but slightly better. Unfortunately it's still pretty bad. It's supposed to be a character hunter, but doesn't do enough damage for that job.
One of the poorer units in the codex I'd say.
Just FYIHQ builder's rules on him are still index. Almost no reason to take him over a regular lictor. :(
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/05 17:01:50
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2018/01/05 07:37:45
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I've been thinking, Flyrant with 2 pairs of talon takes Mind Eater WL trait going on a characters-hunting mission. Unlike Overrun stratagem this trait doesn't restrict you to move within 1" of enemy unit in Fight phase.
It says you move like as if it was your movement phase. The core rules says that you can't move within 1" of an enemy unit in the movement phase. So I'd say nope, unfortunately.
2018/01/05 14:19:30
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Xenomancers wrote: What do you think about the death-leaper? He is kind of interesting. Not so much for his ability to set up really close characters but for the ability to set up even closer to other things. Plus he's -2 to hit all the time.
Is he just too expensive and too easy to counter? IDK.
He seems like a slightly better lictor, especially after the codex dropped he got nerfed. Personally, i would prefer that they took out the Red Terror and Death Leaper and put hte Doom of Malantai and Paraiste of Mortex back in.
10000+
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3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Xenomancers wrote: What do you think about the death-leaper? He is kind of interesting. Not so much for his ability to set up really close characters but for the ability to set up even closer to other things. Plus he's -2 to hit all the time.
Is he just too expensive and too easy to counter? IDK.
He seems like a slightly better lictor, especially after the codex dropped he got nerfed. Personally, i would prefer that they took out the Red Terror and Death Leaper and put hte Doom of Malantai and Paraiste of Mortex back in.
Well, we all know why it is the way it is. They have the models for the first two and not the other two.
Xenomancers wrote: What do you think about the death-leaper? He is kind of interesting. Not so much for his ability to set up really close characters but for the ability to set up even closer to other things. Plus he's -2 to hit all the time.
Is he just too expensive and too easy to counter? IDK.
Deathleaper lost the ability to set up right next to characters in the codex. Now it just deepstrikes normally, but with a re-roll to charge. Same as regular lictors.
It's basically just a regular lictor, but slightly better. Unfortunately it's still pretty bad. It's supposed to be a character hunter, but doesn't do enough damage for that job.
One of the poorer units in the codex I'd say.
Just FYIHQ builder's rules on him are still index. Almost now reason to take him over a regular lictor.
Not a legal way to play it though outside of friendlies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/05 16:48:54
I don't know about the DL. The fact that he is a character and that he has -2 to hit him is something I have not really taken into account. Perhaps we could use him as a champion of sorts as long as there are some gaunts between him and the rest. Your opponent can not shoot him. He is S6 in melee.
He is indeed fairly tough to take down. You could even stick him next to a malanthrope or venomthropes if you want for a -3 to hit. Probably fairly pointless to do so however, as the character rule does far more to protect him against shooting than an improved negative hit modifier would.
The problem is that his attacks are kinda weak, and he doesn't do anything else interesting. Most characters have no trouble surviving the kind of damage he dishes out, and even with the -2 to hit him in combat, can probably deal about as much damage back as he did to them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/05 22:04:50
2018/01/05 22:11:32
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I kind of want them to get rid of the red terror and turn the prime into something far more modular.
Kind of like the consul (?) From 30k ( the generic hq that can be upgraded into a bunch of stuff). Stock prime is a warrior. Serpent prime replaces the red terror. Wings prime for shrikes that could mirror Mortex.
I feel like that would be much better.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2018/01/06 00:36:47
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I'm going to work a Tyrannofex into my list. I like the idea of the acid spray. Will playtest this weekend.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2018/01/06 01:18:20
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Lance845 wrote: I kind of want them to get rid of the red terror and turn the prime into something far more modular.
Kind of like the consul (?) From 30k ( the generic hq that can be upgraded into a bunch of stuff). Stock prime is a warrior. Serpent prime replaces the red terror. Wings prime for shrikes that could mirror Mortex.
I feel like that would be much better.
That would be fantastic. A pricey standalone kit for him with a treasure trove of bits like that would be an instant buy for me.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2018/01/06 06:27:06
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So I noticed that the Stone-Crusher Carnifex doesn't get a +1 to hit rolls after a successful charge like the Codex Carnifexes(Carnifexen?) do. What are the odds that the FW rules are going to get updated to be in line with its Carnifex-brothers?
Also on that note, thoughts on the 2x Wrecker Claws vs the 1x Claw, 1x Flail?
2018/01/06 07:45:07
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
ShiokenStar wrote: So I noticed that the Stone-Crusher Carnifex doesn't get a +1 to hit rolls after a successful charge like the Codex Carnifexes(Carnifexen?) do. What are the odds that the FW rules are going to get updated to be in line with its Carnifex-brothers?
Also on that note, thoughts on the 2x Wrecker Claws vs the 1x Claw, 1x Flail?
While we're talking Carnifexes, how are you guys keeping them alive? I've tried running three SC Carnifexes + OOE in like four games so far and I haven't gotten better than one wounded one + OOE into combat. They just seem to get sniped by AT weapons on the walk up, even with Trygons/Mawlocs being there to draw fire.
2018/01/06 13:24:11
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
ShiokenStar wrote: So I noticed that the Stone-Crusher Carnifex doesn't get a +1 to hit rolls after a successful charge like the Codex Carnifexes(Carnifexen?) do. What are the odds that the FW rules are going to get updated to be in line with its Carnifex-brothers?
Also on that note, thoughts on the 2x Wrecker Claws vs the 1x Claw, 1x Flail?
While we're talking Carnifexes, how are you guys keeping them alive? I've tried running three SC Carnifexes + OOE in like four games so far and I haven't gotten better than one wounded one + OOE into combat. They just seem to get sniped by AT weapons on the walk up, even with Trygons/Mawlocs being there to draw fire.
Pick Kraken, and run those bad boys as fast as you can. Use swarmlord for extra movement.
But Yeah, I have run them 2x, and they are AT magnets. Which is fine bc my tryants get to live.
10000+
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3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
You don't take Deathleaper for his damage output, you take him so you can deepstrike an untargetable character onto an objective and score easy points.
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
The executions will continue until morale improves 
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