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2018/02/13 15:56:36
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Anyone have any advice on screening flyrants? I have two in my list for an escalation league - (one with a Balethorn cannon and one with all scythes) but the damn things seem to draw an unimaginable amount of firepower as soon as they show up. I'm having trouble keeping them alive for more than a couple turns. Is there any way to mitigate that or turn it to my advantage?
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
ChargerIIC wrote: Anyone have any advice on screening flyrants? I have two in my list for an escalation league - (one with a Balethorn cannon and one with all scythes) but the damn things seem to draw an unimaginable amount of firepower as soon as they show up. I'm having trouble keeping them alive for more than a couple turns. Is there any way to mitigate that or turn it to my advantage?
Land near hive guards. Land near malanthrope or venom thrope.
Be Leviathan. Be Kraken with the minus to hit.
Vs charges you can screen with gargoyles.
I would rather recomend comming in kicking and screaming with the instintive killer and shoot down whatever you are kittet out against. I often choose ork boys and let it ripp with 24 S6 BS3 re-roll to hit shots. Works like a charm.
ChargerIIC wrote: Anyone have any advice on screening flyrants? I have two in my list for an escalation league - (one with a Balethorn cannon and one with all scythes) but the damn things seem to draw an unimaginable amount of firepower as soon as they show up. I'm having trouble keeping them alive for more than a couple turns. Is there any way to mitigate that or turn it to my advantage?
I'd probably look towards Gargoyles for screening duties. They are fast and can deep strike on their own so they should pair nicely with the Tyrants. As far as drawing fire away, the only thing you can really do is try to have other targets of equal or greater perceived threat value. It might not hurt to look towards a Hive Crone or Harpy to run interference. Both are a larger models so they look imposing and are fast enough that they can put themselves in charge range turn 1 or 2.
2018/02/13 20:44:17
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Great write up, @Zinko. Quick point of order, as a Chaos mainer - your Daemons opponent broke an important rule when those Horrors failed a morale check; you don’t get to Split with models that flee. Though it looks like it didn’t make a decisive difference in their favour *nom*
lindsay40k wrote: Great write up, @Zinko. Quick point of order, as a Chaos mainer - your Daemons opponent broke an important rule when those Horrors failed a morale check; you don’t get to Split with models that flee. Though it looks like it didn’t make a decisive difference in their favour *nom*
Oh I see, that makes sense. So he should have removed more pinks instead of replacing blues with brims. Or if he chose to remove the blues then brims don't pop out. Thanks I'll keep that in mind for the future.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/13 20:49:27
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2018/02/13 21:02:25
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
ChargerIIC wrote: Anyone have any advice on screening flyrants? I have two in my list for an escalation league - (one with a Balethorn cannon and one with all scythes) but the damn things seem to draw an unimaginable amount of firepower as soon as they show up. I'm having trouble keeping them alive for more than a couple turns. Is there any way to mitigate that or turn it to my advantage?
Your options are Tyrant Guard, Malthropes, threat saturation, and killing the things that kill Hive Tyrants.
Tyrant Guard are annoying to keep in good position when using flying Tyrants and can only eat so much firepower. I can see some weird Jorgm. build using Raveners to deliver them at the same time as the Tyrants being fun, but I'm not sure it would work that well.
Malthropes are better, but they run into the same mobility issues as Tyrant Guard do. If the rest of your list wants Malthropes (that is, lots of small walking bugs), you can likely get use out of them protecting the Tyrants with careful positioning. If not, I would recommend against bringing them just for the Tyrants.
Threat saturation is simply bringing more targets than they have ways to kill that kind of target. 5 Hive Tyrants instead of 2, or 3 Hive Tyrants and 3 Trygons, that sort of thing. You accept that they will kill 2-3 of them, but bring so many that you still win.
The last option works will all of the previous ones, and is just a matter of being careful to focus on the things that can hurt your Tyrants. If he has nothing left but bolters, your Tyrants will be in good shape. Obviously this is harder in practice than it is on a chat forum.
I suggest you add heavy threats and try to eliminate anti-monster units. A Trygon delivering 30 devourer Termagants works well-the Trygon is a major threat that forces a choice between it and the Tyrants, and the devilgants are very good at killing infantry-double shoot them to get rid of screens that are keeping your big guys away from gun tanks, or to kill infantry with heavy weapons like Dark Reapers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now I'm off to write a weird list focused around deep striking Tyrant Guard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/13 21:05:53
2018/02/14 14:41:52
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Karang029 wrote: So I'm torn on what I should get next for updating my Tyranids force. The options I'm looking at are:
Maleceptor
Haruspex
Exocrine
Maybe some Tyranids Warriors/Prime
Are any of them just outright bad and I should avoid or any helpful input
Exocrine and warriors can do ok. Warriors give you more flexibility. Exocrine can do lackluster damage sometimes compared to it's price. Maleceptor and Haruspex are overpriced pieces of trash.
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2018/02/14 16:10:13
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Karang029 wrote: So I'm torn on what I should get next for updating my Tyranids force. The options I'm looking at are:
Maleceptor
Haruspex
Exocrine
Maybe some Tyranids Warriors/Prime
Are any of them just outright bad and I should avoid or any helpful input
The utility of Warriors/a Prime depends on how many you’ve already got. I generally field a dozen + Prime, or none.
Exocrine’s use largely depends on the concentration of 2W models in your meta. If you’re knee-deep in Primaris, Terminators, Bikers, and Possessed, it’ll arrive like a comet. Also very good against Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons - wounds all the infantry on a 3+, and 1W models fail 22% more DR saves when the attack does 2D. It’s probably inefficient against regular MEQs (but a very imposing scarecrow for them), and against a horde of cannon fodder it’s very inefficient (and they won’t hesitate to banzai charge and tarpit it). Incinerates light vehicles, it’s... adequate against medium vehicles, but against Land Raiders and worse it’ll fall short.
I have not intention of adding a Maleceptor, and I haven’t even bothered getting my old Haruspex conversion out of the cabinet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/14 16:12:21
^Poor Haruspex. It's rules look really fun, but it sure takes a second seat to other options.
Definitely agree with the take on Warriors. I think you have to go big or go home. Very durable units in large numbers though, a full squad take a while to chew through.
The Exocrine/Haruspex is a good kit that you can swap out the forward section on, giving nice flexibility.
So how many flyrants are people using? I played a couple of games against Nids at a tournament at the weekend. One guy had 9 and the other had 6. I managed to scrape a draw against the guy with 9 and narrowly beat the 6. It was hard work!
2018/02/14 19:13:46
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Mandragola wrote: So how many flyrants are people using? I played a couple of games against Nids at a tournament at the weekend. One guy had 9 and the other had 6. I managed to scrape a draw against the guy with 9 and narrowly beat the 6. It was hard work!
People are spamming them because that's kind of what people do in 40k, but i'm not convinced it's the best list for ITC.
I use 2 Flyrants.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2018/02/14 21:03:29
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Karang029 wrote:So I'm torn on what I should get next for updating my Tyranids force. The options I'm looking at are:
Maleceptor Haruspex Exocrine Maybe some Tyranids Warriors/Prime
Are any of them just outright bad and I should avoid or any helpful input
- Maleceptor: It is usable, but is currently overshadowed by the Hive Tyrant since they have very similar stats and cost but the Tyrant is a better fighter and has more options (plus people have tons of Tyrants around from 7th). That said, if the Smite nerf goes through they will be a bit more attractive for smite spam since they get +1 to cast and have the option to use Psychic Overload instead if the casting value is too high.
- Haruspex: I actually like the Haruspex, particularly with its new price point in the codex. The main selling point it has is that it is one of three T8 bugs in the codex, so a lot of common anti-monster weapons need a 4+ or worse to wound it and most enemy troops need 6's. Combined with its innate regeneration capabilities it is actually a fairly durable brick with S14 melee attacks for armor cracking and its writhing maw for anti-infantry. The main problem is that it is relatively slow so it needs a pod or heavy monster saturation to get it across the field intact (it is a huge Lascannon magnet) and its WS is rather poor for a melee beast (can be mitigated to an extent with Leviathan's stratagem).
- Exocrine: The Exocrine is actually fairly strong with double-tapping plasma with better than usual accuracy in codex, but to get the most out of it must remain static which is at odds with most Tyranid lists which focus on high mobility. It also overlaps a bit with Impaler Cannon Hive Guard who spit out comparable firepower but can hide out of line of sight for protection and have had a model for longer (anyone from 5th probably has 6-9 of them laying around). Still, it is a fairly good shooting platform as long as you can keep it safely bubble wrapped against alpha strikes.
Not going to comment on Warriors as opinions are heavily divided on them to put it mildly.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/02/14 23:05:37
2018/02/14 23:31:10
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
luke1705 wrote: I use zero Flyrants in the ITC format. My HQs are typically Swarmy and a neurothrope or two with a Malanthrope.
Do you run a brigade?
Do you run dakka-fex for some mid value/volume shooting?
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2018/02/15 03:29:42
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I intend to try to make them into an editable PDF eventally. But it's a lot of work and other projects are on my radar first. Best way to fill it in is download GIMP (free photoshop) and use the text tool. It's pretty easy to do.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2018/02/15 10:04:22
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I'm running 1 flyrant, exactly as I always have. My other HQ's are a Neurothrope and a malanthrope. Occasionally a Broodlord if I'm feeling Genestealery
Has anyone tried a pure tyranid gunline? Kronos hive fleet, 6-9 impaler cannot hive guard, 2 t-fexes with rupture cannons, a couple of exocrines. 2 big units of warriors with deathspitters and VC/BS, a tyranid prime to buff them up and a couple of malanthropes for synapse and cover. Spend rest of the points on termagants to bubble wrap your monsters and hormagants to go hunt forward objectives.
Could this be a thing?
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2018/02/15 11:44:09
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
topaxygouroun i wrote: Has anyone tried a pure tyranid gunline? Kronos hive fleet, 6-9 impaler cannot hive guard, 2 t-fexes with rupture cannons, a couple of exocrines. 2 big units of warriors with deathspitters and VC/BS, a tyranid prime to buff them up and a couple of malanthropes for synapse and cover. Spend rest of the points on termagants to bubble wrap your monsters and hormagants to go hunt forward objectives.
Could this be a thing?
I've been running a kraken assault force accompanied by a Kronos gunline and in the past 5 test games I've been very happy with there performance.
Kronos battalion
Hq Neurothrope
Neurothrope
Troops
3x rippers
3x rippers
3x rippers
Elite
3x implaler hive guard
Heavy
2x rupture cannon tfex's w'toxin sacs
I had the extra two points so that's why the fex's have toxin sacs haha honestly tho last two games they've been quite handy when my gunline gets charged ha
My last game against admech/ ironhands my hiveguard were deff my mvp's
Taking out a ironclad, then with double tap finished final 8 wounds off a dunecrawler which then exploded and dealt a lot of damage to his rear lines.
Then the rupturefex's deleted another dunecrawler and one whiffed and only dealt 3 wounds to the second dunecrawler which my hive guard finished off
In other games I've had each rupture fex delete a leman Russ on turn 1, eliminated a titan, crashed a fire raptor wth 3 wounds left on my only remaining fex albeit some very lucky 6's to hit ha ( also love that it still remains 5+ to hit in final bracket)
So far this gunlines been working well for me along with my kraken battalion. Against deepstrike heavy lists I can spread them out within 12" of a neuro, unit of devilgants spread across my deployment and if need be I can place some rippers in the back to deny more pockets. T1 my assault force can freely advance forward without worry about units DS behind. In a game against BA with a lot of DC I went second and he made mistake to wait unit I rushed forward. On his turn 2 he had nowhere to deploy but inches ahead of his deployment haha
I'll be using this list in a couple weeks at my first itc GT tournament
I think in any sort of gunline I’d want a unit of biovores. They’re great against dug in units with reduced chances to hit, and can toss extra bodies on the field which can be important when you don’t have the points for screening units.
2018/02/15 12:32:43
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
No love for shooting warriors? A deathspitter is basically a heavy bolter and a warrior with a heavy bolter for 25 pts is better than a marine with a heavy bolter for 22. Tyranid prime really makes them into marines and kronos will make sure that the damage output is plenty. Having 2 venom cannons in a unit of 6 is also no joke.
Synapse
Shadow in the warp
12 x str 5, ap-1, dmg 1, 24"
2d3 x str 8, ap -2, dmg 3, 36"
CC: 24 attacks, WS 3+, str 4, ap-2
Next to a Prime, they have BS 3+ with reroll 1's and CC on a 2+ !?!
The way I see it, the two venom cannons are strictly better than a predator autocannon for the same points (+1 str, +1 ap). Also the heavy bolter shooting is much appreciated for a TROOP (normal troops cannot have a heavy bolter for each model. 3 wounds , toughness 4 and 4+ save are just fine for an 27 pt model and it's hth output is tremendous, should you dare to try and engage them.
Basically they look to me as if they are a perfect all-arounder for decent pricing. Sure, a tyranid prime is expensive, so why not double down and get two units of warriors? This brings the price of the Prime to half, since we are basically only paying for the aura.
Also, with 12 warriors plus a prime in the list, we can afford to forego other synapse granting HQ tax units like neurothropes.
Does anyone else find tyranid warriors sexy?
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2018/02/15 13:25:03
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
warriors are great on paper but are swingy verses certain opponents.
They will do excellent againgst hoard armies that cant spam long range 2 damage guns.
They will do excellent againgst armies that have small numbers and cant clear chaff (since you should have some chaff in front of them).
They will do fine againgst armies that cannot focus their attention on them due to you having other threats they must get rid of (carni spam).
They can be used in any nid army decently, however they aren't good enough at any one role for you to stick them in a tourney list unless you spam them, and if you do that you run the risk of getting hard countered.
The only ways to run warrior spam are Leviathan for the FNP or jormy for the always cover. Really a shame we cant buy extended carapace for them though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/15 13:25:20
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2018/02/15 13:27:15
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
You could bring a GSC Spearhead Detachment and bring 3 GSC Russ's w/ Battle cannon, twin Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter or Lascannons for 177-190pts and that nets you;
Problem with prime is that he has no ranged himself, is great in CC, but is there purely to buff the warriors shooting, so he's a little confused in his role! The issue with him is how many warriors to take before his buff becomes cost effective - I'd say you need two squads realistically and if they are fully tooled with deathspitters and venom cannons that becomes pricey.
"We didn't underestimate them but they were a lot better than we thought."
Sir Bobby Robson
2018/02/15 13:55:32
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The Prime is basically a 33% increase in damage of other Warriors. If you have 300 pts of warriors with it then it has payed itself, if you have more than that then it can be quite cost-efficienct.
But yeah if you are using Primes then you are spamming warriors.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/15 13:55:57
2018/02/15 14:35:36
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Its probably the most competitive way to go for all warrior troops. Note for the warlord, you could probably just go boneswords and give him the Ymgarl relic instead.
ruminator wrote: Problem with prime is that he has no ranged himself, is great in CC, but is there purely to buff the warriors shooting, so he's a little confused in his role! The issue with him is how many warriors to take before his buff becomes cost effective - I'd say you need two squads realistically and if they are fully tooled with deathspitters and venom cannons that becomes pricey.
I ran an ITC list with 12 warriors and prime.
Warriors had 6x squads with 4x DS and 2x VC and scything talons and used them as a fire base while my GS, HT closed in, rippers grabbed objectives.
I used leviathan and placed a malanthrope and prime in the middle of the 2 squads. They did well. Definitely agree that you need to go big and I think the malanthrope/prime is a must for them to be survivable/ and more deadly.
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I then fill the rest of the army with, usually, 2 battalions of Kraken forces. I'm still playing with builds for those but the Kronos detachment is pretty much set. Having Individual Biovore units allows me to ignore morale and to deep strike all I want in the main force.
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2018/02/15 15:51:54
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I am not convinced at all that 40 pts for 1 mortal wound per turn is a good purchase. I know people are crazy over biovores but they just don't click it for me.
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