Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys, I wanted to Try OOE, and in order to do it I wanted to run a kraken list with only two 18" synapses, a swarmlord with t guards and a winged hive tyrant.

Is it possible to run a list with only 2 synapses?

Everything is possible. Hope you dont take leadership saves or need to shoot something backfield. OOE is good.

Nothing wrong with OOE. Hell, a Carnifex stampede can pretty much run off on their own with him and not need much babysitting. I’d recommend Stonecrushers and Behemoth, but Kraken should be fine, notwithstanding uncommon but not rare attacks that roll against Ld.

Only one Flyrant and Swarmie... you’ll face tough matches. Lascannon-heavy lists that take first turn will be extremely painful, especially if it’s not a table you can hide on. Biovores might be a useful solution to long-range inaccuracy - guaranteed disruption, regardless of hit rolls, and can easily hide to avoid morale issues (or just take loads of single model units).

 Niiai wrote:
Everything is possible. Hope you dont take leadership saves or need to shoot something backfield. OOE is good.

My armylist is:

Vanguard Detachment:

HQ1: Swarmlord, catalyst, onslaught, WL, trait Alien Cunning

Elite1: 3 T Guards, AG, TS

Elite2: 3 Venomthropes

Elite3: Lictor



Batallion Detachment:

HQ2: Winged HT, MSC, HVC, TS, AG, the horror, psychic scream

HQ3: Broodlord, the horror

HS1: Trygon, AG

T1: 30 Dakkagants

T2: 20 Genestealers, RC, ST, 5 Acid Maws

T3: 20 Genestealers, RC, ST, 5 Acid Maws

T4: 28 Hormagaunts, ST

T5: 3 Ripper Swarms



I have no Malanthrope and only 1 Batallion + Vanguard because usually where I play we cannot use FW and we cannot double detachments, so no 2 or 3 batallions and so on...

By the way running 3 synapses (two 18" and one 12") I never had any problems, and as the Broodlord is too expensive for what he does and specially for his resistance, I was thinking about OOE which is great.

More than having synapses problems I think I may have some psychic powers problems. I mean, usually I want the Hive Tyrant to do his magic with smite, scream, d3 HVC shots and charge, and if I don't have the Broodlord the HT to cast the Horror couldn't run his smite + psychic scream.

And I was also thinking to change the HT's horror with a nice paroxysm. Even if that power is extremely situational, that power can be very useful against stuff that always fights first, otherwise 90% if the times the HT will smite and scream.

I just wanted to try OOE, but I really cannot find place for him in the synergies running in this list, so I have probably to build another list completely different. :(

Unless I am playing over 2000pts I leave Swarmy and the tyrant guard home and take another flyrant insted. This frees up about 200 pts from your current list. I'd guess you would drop a brood of stealers and the Trygon for OOE and some carnifex love?

Timeshadow wrote:
Unless I am playing over 2000pts I leave Swarmy and the tyrant guard home and take another flyrant insted. This frees up about 200 pts from your current list. I'd guess you would drop a brood of stealers and the Trygon for OOE and some carnifex love?

To be honest Swarmlord is my favourite model and I want to play him, and playing it a lot I've noticed that in some games I couldn't win without his abilities and all the synergies that he has in THAT particular armylist.

He will be the 6th deployment drop and he will redeploy hiding himself somewhere in case of opponent's 1st turn, or he will be in the first line in case of my 1st turn.

He can make a single unit of GS move more than 30" in a single turn, which is a huge thing considering that lots of anti infantry weapons are range 24".

He can make a GS unit move after they pop out from their node.

And for some armies he is simply unstoppable.

I've played It something like 30 times till now and he NEVER disappointed me.

The real bonus that the Swarmlord brings to my army is the capability to adapt to the enemy.

But of course to play It you need to build a list around him, and that will take a lot of points. You need some more wounds because in case you need to expose him to enemy fire for one turn in has to survive, so you need to buy him the T guards.

Then you need to use something that will protect him against enemy deep strikers, so you will need some sacrificial stuff like hormagaunts or termagants and as you are playing Kraken hormagaunts are a fantastic choice!

Then you will need some units to benefit from his unique special ability, so in with the Genestealers.

But to cover yourself against Warp Times, Death Hexes and Null Zones you will need an advanced not targettable psyker, and as you are playing some genestealers the best choice is a Broodlord.

But then you will need some anti horde fire to kill bubblewraps and you bring devilgaunts, so your genestealers can hit their target.

But your devilgants will need to be delivered so you will pay them a Trygon.

But then you will need an advanced synapse for your deep striking devilgants, so here is the Winged Hive Tyrant.

Is a fantastic machine where everything is like a gear and has a purpose.



To use OOE I should start building a list from the scratches, it cannot be the same list implant.

Mmm, I think there’s things to be said for T-cyte for Devilgaunt drops. Spitters and stranglers are fine additions to a horde clearing squadron, and it can daisy-chain synapse to keep them in the fight. Though it doesn’t help fill out a formation, and Trygons are also excellent.

Absolutely agree that Swarmy wants a list built around him, and that OOE is similar in this respect.

Well for 174 points a Trygon is a HUGE threat.

If that thing can manage to catch a tank or an elite unit can cripple it without any mercy.

But the most important thing about it is that is fantastic to intercept incoming overwatch fire instead of something else, or can go against units with a lot of flamers that wil martoriate your charging infantries.

So a big ovale base that can easily allow you to try multiple charges, 12 wounds T6 and a Sv3+ are quite good to take some enemy overwatch fire instead of your infantry.

And like everything with a +1 to charge has good chances to charge if you still have a command re roll. Charging on a 8+ if you roll a 6 re rolling the 1 you have 83% chance of success. If you roll a 5 re rolling the other dice you have a 66% chance to get a 3+ and charge. If you roll a 4 re rolling the other dice you still have a 50% chance to make your charge. And if is really important even if you roll a 3 you can try the charge on a 5+.

 Master Chief VF wrote:
Well for 174 points a Trygon is a HUGE threat.

If that thing can manage to catch a tank or an elite unit can cripple it without any mercy.

But the most important thing about it is that is fantastic to intercept incoming overwatch fire instead of something else, or can go against units with a lot of flamers that wil martoriate your charging infantries.

So a big ovale base that can easily allow you to try multiple charges, 12 wounds T6 and a Sv3+ are quite good to take some enemy overwatch fire instead of your infantry.

And like everything with a +1 to charge has good chances to charge if you still have a command re roll. Charging on a 8+ if you roll a 6 re rolling the 1 you have 83% chance of success. If you roll a 5 re rolling the other dice you have a 66% chance to get a 3+ and charge. If you roll a 4 re rolling the other dice you still have a 50% chance to make your charge. And if is really important even if you roll a 3 you can try the charge on a 5+.

In all seriousness I can't get behind the idea of only having Toughness 6 on such a huge model (and for its cost it isn't cost effective at "soaking damage"). Leman Russes get Toughness 8 for 50 fewer points whilst shooting from 72" away. Trygon needs a statline improvements as of now

there is a reason why no top competitive lists plays no swarmlord nor trygon, nice models but...points sink wihout real game impact.

lol I don't know how this guy can be so wrong in one post.


Theres a lot of top lists with Swarmlord in this, mine included.

show them pls, thx, referrred with tournaments, cause im not intersted to see a list played in local store tournaments that matter nothing.

My list is currently undefeated in 6 rounds of Tourny play, so equivalent to a GT. This is from an ongoing tournament series called the Louisiana state 40k series and has me at Number 4 overall points (using ITC format).


It is also undefeated in numerous games at my local store.


+++ Round3 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [113 PL, 1999pts] +++

++ Fortification Network (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ Fortification +

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ Heavy Support +

Biovores: 2x Biovore

Biovores: 2x Biovore

+ HQ +

Neurothrope: Power: Onslaught

Neurothrope: Power: The Horror

Neurothrope: Power: Paroxysm

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

Stratagem: Bounty of the Hive Fleet (-1 CP): 1 Extra Bio-artefact

+ Heavy Support +

Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxinspike

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, Toxin Sacs, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Paroxysm, Power: The Horror, The Miasma Cannon, Toxin Sacs, Wings

The Swarmlord: Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream

+ Troops +

Genestealers: 4x Acid Maw
. 19x Genestealer: 19x Rending Claws

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants
. 25x Termagant (Devourer): 25x Devourer
. 4x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

The thing is that Swarmlord gives you is the ability to hit very hard at a real long range.

Always been using the Swarmlord, at the moment with the new codex I have something like more than 30 games and only victories.

Not because I could be a better player than someone else, but just because of the flexibility it gives to your army, so you are capable of adapt from enemy to enemy and change your approach if needed.

If using 7 flyrants you find a Magnus or 3+ predators or a Repulsor, you are having a very bad match up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the most important thing about him is that it gives you the chance to attack OVER the first line of sacrificial stuff and bubblewraps, and not to shoot all your Flyrant's devourers on some conscripts...

A little modeling problem here. I'm magnetizing some models, but I'm unsure of the size of the magnets needed.

The models in question are a Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord/Flyrant, a Tyrannofex/Tervigon and some Warriors.

Well I just had my best case scenario tonight with my Maleceptor. Can guarantee he will never be that good again. Got 16 mortal wounds off of a Psychic Overload. Very rare case but it makes me like him a little more.

 Master Chief VF wrote:
Hi guys, I wanted to Try OOE, and in order to do it I wanted to run a kraken list with only two 18" synapses, a swarmlord with t guards and a winged hive tyrant.

Is it possible to run a list with only 2 synapses?

I run with just a tyrant and a nero all the time with OOE at 2000 points. Works well.

You give the Nero the Relic that adds 6 inches to the synapse Helps a lot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
there is a reason why no top competitive lists plays no swarmlord nor trygon, nice models but...points sink wihout real game impact.

Have to disagree with this a lot. To say that both don't have impact is odd. Most people worry about both right away when they are in a list. People know they need to focus on them or their in trouble. Building a list to take advantage of this is smart.


Swarmlord gives you many options. You would be foolish to dismiss him as not useful or a threat.

Trygon or Trygon Primes give you the best delivery system for devigaunts with Synapse if you take a prime.
Str 7 is rare for tyranids so they are a big issue for dreds and toughness 7 units. He is also one of our only d6 damage dealers.

A trygon is a flexible threat by itself. it needs 8 inches for a charge. Moves 9 inches. Is a great target for onslaught or even double move from Swarmlord.

Tyranids have been doing well with many different list at the local and GT level. No one list has become the must take list. Which is a good thing.

People playing 5 to 7 Tyrants have been doing ok. One won in a special format. In ITC i have seen people with that list having a lot issues.

To say Tyrgons or Swarmlord aren't any good... That person has not played with them much or vs someone that use them effectively.

Tyran wrote:
A little modeling problem here. I'm magnetizing some models, but I'm unsure of the size of the magnets needed.

The models in question are a Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord/Flyrant, a Tyrannofex/Tervigon and some Warriors.

I use for most parts 3x1mm round neodym magnets. For the tervigon/tyrannofex arms I used 4x2mm round neodym magnets. Rupture cannon should be build with a stabilizer to hold the weapon forward, or it will sink down to the ground till contact. Acid spray got an inbuilt stabilizer.

I got some samples how i magnetized stuff in my images. Not the best pictures though.

Hmm. Swarmlord is going to attract a lot of firepower.

I guess in high level play there's no point making him warlord and an early drop to try to false flag your opponent's big guns. Any wise player will ignore that honey pot.

I run with just a tyrant and a nero all the time with OOE at 2000 points. Works well.

You give the Nero the Relic that adds 6 inches to the synapse Helps a lot.

Are you referring to the crown? It only adds to ignore Instinctive behavior, not synapse.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
My list is currently undefeated in 6 rounds of Tourny play, so equivalent to a GT. This is from an ongoing tournament series called the Louisiana state 40k series and has me at Number 4 overall points (using ITC format).


It is also undefeated in numerous games at my local store.


+++ Round3 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [113 PL, 1999pts] +++

++ Fortification Network (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ Fortification +

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ Heavy Support +

Biovores: 2x Biovore

Biovores: 2x Biovore

+ HQ +

Neurothrope: Power: Onslaught

Neurothrope: Power: The Horror

Neurothrope: Power: Paroxysm

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

Stratagem: Bounty of the Hive Fleet (-1 CP): 1 Extra Bio-artefact

+ Heavy Support +

Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxinspike

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, Toxin Sacs, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Paroxysm, Power: The Horror, The Miasma Cannon, Toxin Sacs, Wings

The Swarmlord: Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream

+ Troops +

Genestealers: 4x Acid Maw
. 19x Genestealer: 19x Rending Claws

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants
. 25x Termagant (Devourer): 25x Devourer
. 4x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Just wat to say, Dang! Nice list!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. Swarmlord is going to attract a lot of firepower.

I guess in high level play there's no point making him warlord and an early drop to try to false flag your opponent's big guns. Any wise player will ignore that honey pot.

Personally I don't use her, because I think it is priced too high.

But image a senario like this... You set an infestation node up front, protected by a large Termagant Brood. Then you place your Swarmlord someplace safe, suggesting that you plan to double move her close in T2. Then you steal or take your first turn ...you reposistion the Swarmy right out front, yell Waagh! pop the stealers and speed rush that fool. You would almost certainly put then on their back foot, and let you dictate the flow of the game, dice permitting. It just might make a "can't win" into a amazing win.


So. just because I think the price is too high, that does not mean Swarmy can't be useful.

Unless your being very careful to place the termagants super spread out the gs cannot move through their unit. Keep that in mind.

 Eihnlazer wrote:


So. just because I think the price is too high, that does not mean Swarmy can't be useful.

I've been playng the Swarmlord a lot and honestly even if he is very expensive I don't think at all that his price is too high. And I'm playing him (300 points) and 3 T Guards with RC, ST, AG and TS (117 points).

He is way tougher than a normal Hive Tyrant considering that in close combat has a 3+ invo (not only 4+) and he is extremely easy to hide him from incoming enemy fire.

He is a better psyker than a Hive Tyrant, casting 2 powers and dispelling 2 powers (insteas of only one).

He is simply terrifying in close combat! On his last wound he still fights better than an average Hive Tyrant. 4 attacks, hitting always on 2+, S6, 3 damages per unsaved wound and an extra mortal wound on 6+ to wound. This on his last wound...

His ability is extremely powerful! It gives your genestealers an amazing board control, and your maximum threat range is outranging a damn Lascannon. But let's say that on an average a genestelers unit can get a charge range of 42" or 44" in one turn. And that is completely insane counting that you are moving the second time whenever you want in the shooting phase AFTER cleaning bubblewraps, so is not a warp time that happens before shooting, this happens automatically (no psychic power to cast on a 6+, no way to dispell or preventing it) and AFTER shooting.

His warlord trait is simply amazing.



Only him is 300 points, but he is fantastic and having more than 30 games using him (always on the battlefield, no T cytes, just 3 T guards) in my point of view his price is not too high counting ALL the things that he is bringing to your army.

Tyrant Guard need to be faster. They need to be able to match their Hive Tyrant's pace on the battlefield without having to advance to do so.

 Lance845 wrote:
Tyrant Guard need to be faster. They need to be able to match their Hive Tyrant's pace on the battlefield without having to advance to do so.

They don't need to fight, They are just 9 more wounds for your hive tyrants.

If they manage to fight is just something bonus.

 Master Chief VF wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:


So. just because I think the price is too high, that does not mean Swarmy can't be useful.

I've been playng the Swarmlord a lot and honestly even if he is very expensive I don't think at all that his price is too high. And I'm playing him (300 points) and 3 T Guards with RC, ST, AG and TS (117 points).

He is way tougher than a normal Hive Tyrant considering that in close combat has a 3+ invo (not only 4+) and he is extremely easy to hide him from incoming enemy fire.

He is a better psyker than a Hive Tyrant, casting 2 powers and dispelling 2 powers (insteas of only one).

He is simply terrifying in close combat! On his last wound he still fights better than an average Hive Tyrant. 4 attacks, hitting always on 2+, S6, 3 damages per unsaved wound and an extra mortal wound on 6+ to wound. This on his last wound...

His ability is extremely powerful! It gives your genestealers an amazing board control, and your maximum threat range is outranging a damn Lascannon. But let's say that on an average a genestelers unit can get a charge range of 42" or 44" in one turn. And that is completely insane counting that you are moving the second time whenever you want in the shooting phase AFTER cleaning bubblewraps, so is not a warp time that happens before shooting, this happens automatically (no psychic power to cast on a 6+, no way to dispell or preventing it) and AFTER shooting.

His warlord trait is simply amazing.



Only him is 300 points, but he is fantastic and having more than 30 games using him (always on the battlefield, no T cytes, just 3 T guards) in my point of view his price is not too high counting ALL the things that he is bringing to your army.

If you have decent LoS blocking terrain then yes you can hide him. That isn't always the case though. With the Tyrannt Guard you are paying another 100+ points for that model. Basically you have 400+ points in a single HQ slot. That is 20% of your list in a 2k point game. You can get 2 Flyrants for that (24 wounds) vs your swarmy plus TG (21 wounds, and slower movement). As other have mention that is a hefty tax, not to mention the TG are slow , so if Swarmy uses the Double move on himself he leaves them behind. IMO

I think the warlord redeploy trait is crap. I would rather have the ability to choose my own trait, or at least pick one of the Hive Fleets (and not any trait). Redeploying CAN work, but its a one time effect, whereas many other WL Traits are persistent throughout the entire game.

Another way I think about the WL trait is this. You are basically using your WL trait as an equivalent of Flyrant Wings. Instead of DS though, you redeploy turn 1 and he can still be shot at possibly. Even if you hide it their is the chance the opponent goes first and moves to within LoS to shoot it. The WL trait is at best, priced to be 40 points when compared to wings, but you don't get the WL trait the entire match like you do wings. Just not worth it.

 Lance845 wrote:
Tyrant Guard need to be faster. They need to be able to match their Hive Tyrant's pace on the battlefield without having to advance to do so.

Are you talking about giving them a 9inch or 16inch movement?

The should take a page out of DOWII and make TG have a movement of 5", but it is buffed to 9" if within 6" of a HT.

 Master Chief VF wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Tyrant Guard need to be faster. They need to be able to match their Hive Tyrant's pace on the battlefield without having to advance to do so.

They don't need to fight, They are just 9 more wounds for your hive tyrants.

If they manage to fight is just something bonus.

1) you pay for them to be able to fight. They SHOULD be able to fight. 2) they are 9 more wounds that you kind of have to move first to make sure your Swarmlord/Hive Tyrant doesn't outpace them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Tyrant Guard need to be faster. They need to be able to match their Hive Tyrant's pace on the battlefield without having to advance to do so.

Are you talking about giving them a 9inch or 16inch movement?

9


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyran wrote:
The should take a page out of DOWII and make TG have a movement of 5", but it is buffed to 9" if within 6" of a HT.

I am fine with this too.

My problem with the idea of tyrant guard as ablative wounds for a hive tyrant, is that points per wound there's not all that much difference between them and the tyrant they're guarding. That's before considering that it's easier to damage the guard than the tyrant.
So why not just put those points towards a second tyrant?

I do like the idea of a bodyguard creature from a fluff perspective.

I don't think making them any cheaper is the answer. That would probably just lead to them being used as a tough assault unit, rather than bodyguards.
A special rule to make them better at bodyguarding in a different manner to just adding wounds might make them more appealing.
Perhaps something like the old Fortress of Chitin formation, where they buff the saves of both themselves and their tyrant while close to each other.