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 Marmatag wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
As a new Tyranid player, I am facing a dilemma in choices. It is tempting to take 30 (maybe 25?) Termagants with Devourers to pump out a ton of shots (w/Single-Minded Annihilation) or go with several small squads to screen. I kinda like the idea of a huge blob popping up with a Trygon Prime but that seems very expensive (for Tyranids anyways).

I'm overwhelmed with choices that Tyranids can provide and not quite sure which direction is the best to go.

So, i've played in 4 tournaments this year with my Tyranids.

I am going to drop the Trygon + Dakka Termagant portion of my list.

It just doesn't have the use case you would want. It's difficult to hit the sweet spot, and is best used to clear chaff, but in general those are now protected by scout moves. Considering it costs so many points, I would prefer to invest those 400 points into something that will be useful immediately.

It's also worth keeping in mind it is a colossal investment, and against its ideal targets, like Guardsmen, it's overall not that amazing. Investing 400 points and 2CP to wipe out 2-3 squads isn't really that great. And you're not scoring any secondaries doing that.

It does give you board control, but rippers are already great at this.

The best part about this ball is the Trygon, but being t6 3+ with no invuln, he gets taken apart rather quickly and easily. He's a good distraction Carnifex. My opponents who ignore him learn a valuable lesson, but that's usually people before you start getting swiss paired.

At the end of the day there are better ways to spend the points.

I have had the opposite experience as you have, and would recommend the gauntbomb to the new player.

I think that it really depends on what the rest of your list looks like. I think that, outside of Flying Tyants, Tyranids don't win or lose based on one good unit, but instead based on how well your units complement each others weaknesses.

I run the full 30 deveourer gaunts, plus Swarmlord and Genestealers, supported by Hive Guard (my list is a few pages back). Depending on what I'm facing, I use the termagants to clear out blockers so Swarmy/'stealers can get to something juicy, or I use the 'stealers to clear a hole for the gaunts to drop into, or I use the Hive Guard to get rid of things like Scouts that keep me from doing one of the other two things. I personally like using Trygons to deliver, but I think the argument for Jorgm/Raveners instead is very strong.

My biggest problem with a jorm detach for my gauntbomb is that I want maximum CP, and a Brigade is the best way to do that with minimum tax.

If we had a 45pt HQ that was as good as a Tau Fireblade, we'd have a lot of potential for spamming detachments. Unfortunately, with how good Tyrants are, it's hard to justify taking more than 1-2 Neurothropes. And even then, they're not that cheap.

Hmm... thinking on the upcoming FAQ’s unknown payloads:

“Swarmlord + Genestealers + Opportunistic Advance has great synergy” = tactica

“___ unit is presently undercosted” isn’t really tactica IMO

I mean I know it’s a concern when list building to win, but GW have adopted an approach that’s making a big thing of balance tweaks, and we really need to bear in mind that spending stacks of money on what’s efficient today is a recipe to be disappointed tomorrow

I think aggressively seeking the most efficient list is going to set some people up for more disappointment than you get from having an inefficient collection for six months

I’ve been playing a lot of games against new people lately, and have been using this as a chance to try out a lot of things that would seem like weaker choices or otherwise not be considered ‘optimal’ in normal matches.

Haruspex - Disappointing. He hits hard and can eat a lot of chaff, but that 4+ to hit just ruins him. He’d be okay against chaff but by its nature chaff stays in the enemy zone, and the haruspex will be dead long before it reaches there.

Behemoth Tyrant with Scythes and Monstrous Hunger - This guy does amazing work. You’re giving up slay the warlord but he will gib ANYTHING in a single melee phase. Pulled an average of ten wounds a phase, no one liked him at all.

Shrikes with fleshhooks/guns/swords - Ran these guys as Leviathan, they’re surprisingly sturdy and fast. They were expensive but I never felt like they didn’t make their points back.

3 squads of Zoanthropes - Used them out to try out the psychic barrage stratagem. By the time they all got close enough to hit anything worthwhile, the enemy was too spread out to be worth it. Definitely not something to plan for. The Zoanthropes themselves did alright. Had a neurothrope behind them for buffs and with smite heals they were practically invincible. 3++/6+++ 9 wound units that fire off damage no matter if they’re locked in combat or not are nasty. Probably not nearly as good after the smite nerfs come in though.

Deathleaper/Red Terror - Tried these guys out as a silly deep strike combo. I ran into the same problem that came up with all the big fancy melee bugs; they did alright, but it always felt like genestealers would have done it just as well for cheaper. Deathleaper’s -2 to hit definitely helped, but only a 5+ meant he was dead if anything grazed him. Character status didn’t help, because putting stuff in front of them would reduce their already poor chance of assaulting in the first place.

The nice thing was that none of these units were particularly bad, there was just other stuff that did the same thing cheaper or with better survivability.

I used my Maleceptor in my last 2 tournaments, one at 1000 and the other at 2000 points.

At 1000 he was brutal, at 2000 he did some interesting stuff, but mostly he was a nice distraction fex, being always the first target in all games.

The only game where he didn't work was against Blood Angel, but i made a bad deployment mistake and basically lost by turn one.

The right way to use it was putting catalyst on him and double move into the enemy deployment zone.

He deals some mortal wounds, possibly gives you first blood (against tau drone it is highly likely), and then gets sacrificed. He will die, but if he is the only thing to die on that crucial enemy first turn, then it was worth it.

So don’t take this the wrong way, but what else do you have in your army list? Or did your opponent just have bad target priority? I can’t imagine a world in which the Maleceptor should be a primary target

So another question, I'm going to assemble my first squad of 3 Tyranid Warriors tonight (my first Tyranid unit, actually!. I know Boneswords and Deathspitters are the go-to choices, but is it worth giving one model a Venom Cannon? Usually, I will give a model a special weapon whenever possible to make the unit more versatile.

Yes. I think the venom cannon is worth it. The D3 can get annoying though IMO.

I also like to keep the warriors cheap, so I do Syth talons. Warriors for me are either all melee or a gunline. I normally go gunline and let my GS and Hormies charge in.

In a general sense I don't like splitting my army. You run into synapse problems and you open yourself for deep strike. But sometimes, it cannot be avoided.

HVC on a warrior, if you're running warriors, makes sense. A Tyranid prime with squads of warriors using a heavy venom might not be terrible, but in general there are better HVC platforms IMHO.

Overall I would say we have better shooting options. A Rupturefex would be better. Remember, warriors are targetable, too.

 luke1705 wrote:
So don’t take this the wrong way, but what else do you have in your army list? Or did your opponent just have bad target priority? I can’t imagine a world in which the Maleceptor should be a primary target

I guess it is just the psychological effect of a large monster moving across the board and dropping a few mortal wounds.

It’s probably going to inflict 8MW with no means of blocking them. If you’re Kraken, a couple of support characters will likely be caught up in that. That right there is a T7 4++ unit with a modest chance of sniping one of said characters if it’s not dealt with.

That said, picket line screening can easily shut it down. It’s got a useful niche that is well matched to aurahammer and makes it something people will want to deal with. Not a fan of the mini, myself, but it’s definitely not a 6ed pyrovore.

 lindsay40k wrote:
It’s probably going to inflict 8MW with no means of blocking them. If you’re Kraken, a couple of support characters will likely be caught up in that. That right there is a T7 4++ unit with a modest chance of sniping one of said characters if it’s not dealt with.

That said, picket line screening can easily shut it down. It’s got a useful niche that is well matched to aurahammer and makes it something people will want to deal with. Not a fan of the mini, myself, but it’s definitely not a 6ed pyrovore.

Mostly this, it's a beast that can move 20" inches without problems and end up near a juicy target to double smite (with +1), or if unable it will just put itself in the best point to unleash a psy overload.
Add to this that it is shutting down your psy phase and you cannot leave it unanswered.

Double smite? Hmm, tendrils happen “instead of manifesting any psychic powers in your psychic phase... if I’m rushing a Male then it’s going to smart bomb and Zoeys are going to Smite :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spore Field, or Meiotic Spores? For a mere 8pts premium, MS are looking a lot better. Take twice as much gun to clear, and don’t cost 3CP to drop in. And can fill some Detachment slots.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Double smite? Hmm, tendrils happen “instead of manifesting any psychic powers in your psychic phase... if I’m rushing a Male then it’s going to smart bomb and Zoeys are going to Smite :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spore Field, or Meiotic Spores? For a mere 8pts premium, MS are looking a lot better. Take twice as much gun to clear, and don’t cost 3CP to drop in. And can fill some Detachment slots.

Smite and Scream.

Meiotic Spores are 18 i think.

Meiotic Spores are indeed 18 each (54 for a unit). I think they are well worth their points though. I use 3 units to deny deep strikers any viable targets on turn 1. Hive Guard lists love them and they fit nicely into an outrider detachment or a brigade.

So, if i'm reading it correctly, when you use metabolic overdrive you move 2M +3d6 if you advance both times.

Can we use this to propel mucolid spores into the opponent's face?

Hmm. Meiotic or Mucolid?

Meiotic (and Sporefield) are pre-battle deployment.

MO happens after a unit moves. So, after deploying a Spore unit before the battle begins, and moving it in your movement phase, you can move it again. This is not moving 2M+3D6, it’s moving M+D6 once and then doing it again.

Dropping Spore Mines and Mucolid Spores are set up in the movement phase, not moved, so MO wouldn’t be allowed in those cases.

So, if a Spores unit *starts the turn in play*, it *can* use MO. And, if it does so and gets within 3” of an enemy unit, it will deliver the payload.

Question is: is it worth it? Moving an extra M+D6 but not charging, and taking a MW for every sixth mine? You’d get a better range, on average, by saving the CP and charging.

Main niche purpose? Throwing them at units with flamers and the like. MO move won’t trigger Overwatch.

Of course, if you’re Kraken, you can throw another CP at them to Opportunist Advance. That moves around M+10 and then M+10 again. That *can* make a whole load of them zoom over a screen, gang up around a support character, and hose it down with Mortal Wounds.

With full sized units and estimated fractions:

9 Spore Mines = 7.5 survive MO = 7.5 MW
3 Mucolid Spores = 2.5 survive MO = 4.8 MW
9 Meiotic Spores = 8.25 survive MO = 16 MW, 17.5 if you use a reroll, omg that’s a dead Primarch this is totally a viable trick

No opportunistic advance for Meiotic Spores...they have the Fly keyword after all

Aaah, shot down


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BUT do bear the numbers in mind if you’ve got a load of Spores a foot away from a warlord with a screening unit in the way


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can actually move them four times, which can be even better than OA:

- Movement Phase + MO

- Swarmlord Shooting Phase + MO

With Kraken, that can easily pole-vault over a modest screen and do an assassination ploy so sneaky, you could put a purple badge on it and call it a Decepticon

Still doable without Kraken

 lindsay40k wrote:
Aaah, shot down


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BUT do bear the numbers in mind if you’ve got a load of Spores a foot away from a warlord with a screening unit in the way


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can actually move them four times, which can be even better than OA:

- Movement Phase + MO

- Swarmlord Shooting Phase + MO

With Kraken, that can easily pole-vault over a modest screen and do an assassination ploy so sneaky, you could put a purple badge on it and call it a Decepticon

Still doable without Kraken

Metabolic overdrive can only be used in the movement phase, so 3 times is the most you will get.

Have to say though that they move more than you estimated, since the bonus from the first advance lasts for the whole movement phase, which means that the second move is M+the previous D6+ the new D6.

It's a trick i've been preparing mostly for the mucolid spores, since they will not die from the MW and i usually have some deployed to fill the brigade requirements. Not something i'm going to do turn 1, but an interesting tool to have during the game.

Has anyone tried this? Move 9 kraken meiotic spores with metabolic overdrive and the SL? They can fly over screens and blow up in the juicy centre

Spoletta wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Aaah, shot down


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BUT do bear the numbers in mind if you’ve got a load of Spores a foot away from a warlord with a screening unit in the way


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can actually move them four times, which can be even better than OA:

- Movement Phase + MO

- Swarmlord Shooting Phase + MO

With Kraken, that can easily pole-vault over a modest screen and do an assassination ploy so sneaky, you could put a purple badge on it and call it a Decepticon

Still doable without Kraken

Metabolic overdrive can only be used in the movement phase, so 3 times is the most you will get.

Have to say though that they move more than you estimated, since the bonus from the first advance lasts for the whole movement phase, which means that the second move is M+the previous D6+ the new D6.

It's a trick i've been preparing mostly for the mucolid spores, since they will not die from the MW and i usually have some deployed to fill the brigade requirements. Not something i'm going to do turn 1, but an interesting tool to have during the game.

Aha, I had confused MO with OA, which the CT FAQ confirms as being useable in any phase when a standard move is made.

However, on the subject of advancing twice and stacking, the CT FAQ has shot that down. When you advance, you add D6 to your M for the whole phase, and you can’t advance twice in a phase. So, Advance to make a Kraken Spore’s M=8ish, then MO to make another move of the same value, then Swarmlord for another move (during which it can Advance, making a fresh roll).

Still doable for a Kraken Spores unit to clear a screen a scrag a character.

I have used this on a unit of 5 Meiotic Spores to jump over a screen and deal 10 mortal wounds to an Imperial Knight. My opponent was quite shocked.

But everything lindsay said is correct. The FAQ explains how all these strategems interact with advancing and it can be a little confusing.

For example, the FAQ clearly allows you to use Opportunistic Advance (on a non fly unit) in the shooting phase after using Swarmlord's Hive Commander. But it does not give permission to do so with Metabolic Overdrive.

So the best case scenario is you spend 1 CP to Metabolic Overdrive and move at most 18 inches with Meiotic Spores in the movement phase. I would never dream of wasting Hive Commander on them but 18 inches is sufficient to jump most screens and hit something valuable. It can be especially amusing to snipe a character this way with an average of 6 mortal wounds for 3 meiotic spores. That seems worth a CP to me.

Anyone thought of imbedding spore mines in with their melee units to deter charges and or follow up after your Hormies or GS get in. This could be good vs other armies that are melee based like Blood Angels, Beserkers, etc....

I envision spacing them out within your lines about 1" back from the front so they are within range if charged. Also, if you don't get charged you can bring them in subsequent rounds once the enemy has been locked in combat and has no way of shooting them in Overwatch.

I've tried the spore mine rush, and a lot of them just get shot up.

Still want to try the spore mine spam with Sporecyst, biovores, etc..., but havn't had a chance.

It's a decent tactic in theory but hard to find a use case for it. Meiotic Spores are usually ahead of your lines to deter deep strikers. They're a first screen. If you put them behind your secondary screen then it kind of defeats the point of having them.

Spores are far too slow to actively embed in mobile melee units. Dropping them in a unit that looks like it’ll get charged next turn is an option. Though they’d almost always be better placed as forward screens.

Honestly i prefer mucolid spores, mostly because you can use them as a unit of 1 for a cheap cost, fill a FA slot in a brigade, have the cheapest cost to wound ratio, have T3 and 6+ and don't die to MO. You either plant them into a termagant screen that you know that is going to be assaulted, or just drop them 12" from a target that is getting swamped, so that next turn you go boom on it.

Problem is that while i would like to play a lot of those, getting those models is impossible.

2 to 3 sporocysts combo'd with biovores and genestealers all in your enemies lines really ruins their tempo.

Its just so many threats inside their deploy zone they cannot ignore it, meaning your big bugs and gaunts might not even get shot at, or the sporocysts will get ignored and keep spawning more.

remember at 104 points, a sporocyst that makes it to turn 3 has spawned 90 points of mines and shot 3 times, easily making its points back and also probably giving you objective points. They are durable enough that they have to send somthing big at them or waste a ton of small arms fire on them.

Spoletta wrote:
Honestly i prefer mucolid spores, mostly because you can use them as a unit of 1 for a cheap cost, fill a FA slot in a brigade, have the cheapest cost to wound ratio, have T3 and 6+ and don't die to MO. You either plant them into a termagant screen that you know that is going to be assaulted, or just drop them 12" from a target that is getting swamped, so that next turn you go boom on it.

Problem is that while i would like to play a lot of those, getting those models is impossible.

Find someone who purchased a tyrannocyte and buy the spores off of them.

If that fails, glue a peanut to a toothpick, lol.

And i agree with literally everything you said in regards to spores.

They also allow you to move forward and not have people deep striking with 9" of your back line, or act as general deep strike denial from spots other than where your screens are. I use rippers for this if i don't take recon.

Get a bag of walnuts and a GS cable/tentacle roller. Sorted.