Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/04/24 01:21:33
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Its a very hoard like army. Would work similar to a green tide focused on shooting instead of melee. Just gum up the middle of the table with gaunts and rippers (keeping your thropes protected) while your backfield does the damage. The lictors should be brought in turn 2 or 3 to hopefully bring in another 30 devilgaunts. The hive guard will double shoot every turn and be effectively immune to getting attacked if you place them properly and you keep your infantry spread out. Add in some heavy threat from meiotic spores coming in at something big with MO.
How are you getting another 30 Devilgants without reinforcement points set aside?
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2018/04/24 06:26:09
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Yeah, hydra and endless swarm has a serious issues at matched play. If they would make reinforcements free, but increase cp cost, that might solve the problem. Kronos seems very popular now, but I think that they are trying to do something (shooting) that is not what nids are supposed to do.
https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/ Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500)
2018/04/24 07:07:30
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Using Endless Swarm might have the advantage that you can practically put more than half of your PL in reserve. Because you will have some 100 points in reinforcements.
2018/04/24 07:17:54
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
lmao When I redid the lists I forgot I was saving points for endless.
Well you get the point. you need 240 points for endless swarm, as either a 30 devilgaunts, or 20 genestealers cost the same and those are the 2 best units to bring back.
Alternatively, for fun, you can save points for pyrovores, and go jormagundyr pyrobomb, but the last Big FAQ kinda hurts that one a lot.
Btw, there is one major advantage to endless swarm, even in matched play missions. They allow you to bring in a full sized squad on turn 4/5/6. Granted your handicapping yourself the first 3 turns of the game, but if you can reasonably hold out for that long, your opponent probably wont have the firepower left by that point in the game to deal with a full strength unit. This is a pretty large advantage in missions where end of the game scoring is enforced as even deep strikers will have to be down by turn 3.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 07:20:20
JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG
2018/04/24 08:41:55
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So after looking at the dex, I think I've settled on what I'm going to do this edition. I've always been a big fan of the Dakkafex and man they're back to being dope in melee again thanks to Acid Maws? Awesome. I'm going to have to paint up a couple of screamers for this list but I've always ran more Carnifex than most so it's time to make it official. This is entirely theorycraft as I haven't played the new edition of Nids yet, wanted to post it here before I finish building it up.
6 Dakkafex + 2 Screamerkillers for their utility. All 8 are hitting on 3+ around One Eye in combat and thanks to Gorgon, and the entire army will basically be rerolling to wound against anything non-tank because of universally high strength. Tyrannofexes Take the pods to drop 2 bricks up in their face for them to worry about, who start putting out serious hurt if not immediately dealt with. Broodlord is for easily survivable backfield synapse (TFex doesn't need Synapse thanks to auto hits) that can still have an offensive impact, and the Genestealers just fit the points and made sense as the troop, together they should be some nice little CC support.
Might tweak a few things if the need be after playtesting, but the 9 Carnifexes will likely be the core, I've always loved them and I'm just going to go all in on them this edition as they look real nice now. Not sure how drop pod TFexen will go, if they start getting decimated turn 1 then I might swap to Mawlocs or something, and I'll see if I want to adjust synapse or not.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 09:33:17
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/04/24 09:50:03
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I'd just swap the Tyranno's for sporocysts and mabey the genestealers for hormagaunts instead. Gives you more bodies on the table, mortal wound dealers, and a better screen for your carnies.
JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG
2018/04/24 10:31:14
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
1. Outside of Old One Eye, the rest of the Carnifexes dropped to S6 base so they have some difficulty wounding vehicles/monsters in melee outside of Living Battering Ram. You might want to consider Rupture Cannons on the Tyrannofexes to provide more heavy tank popping options or look towards adding some Crushing Claw or Stonecrusher Carnifexes. Alternatively, you could swap the Tyrannofexes out for Haruspexes and have them drop down in the Tyrannocytes instead. Haruspexes are similarly tough (T8 13 wounds vs T8 14 wounds) but are 16 points cheaper per model and bring either 4 S14 attacks or 4D3 S7 attacks (which make extra S14 attacks per kill).
2. Genestealers really want to be taken in larger units due to the Flurry of Claws ability. If all you require is some form of troops to hold an objective, you may be better served with Rippers since they can hide in reserve and deploy where needed. Alternatively, you could go for 4-5 Warriors and swap the Brood Lord for a Tyranid Prime to add more synapse coverage and multi-wound saturation.
2018/04/24 10:52:07
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I would also use some Hive Guards, if possible in a 6 Man Unit .. with their S8 -2 D3 Damage, not needing a visible target, 36" range and the possiblity of Single Minded Annihilation Stratagem they might be our best Anti-Tank units right now
2018/04/24 11:02:48
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Depends on the number of enemy vehicles. If you want to pop just one per melee, then the stratagem which gives reroll to wound to a monster is enough to let a screamer killer do a decent job (hit on 2+ rerollable with 5 attacks thanks to OOE).
Drukhari will hate that list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 11:03:28
2018/04/24 11:38:13
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
It's going to be a little difficult to keep all these carnifexes next to OOE. I would go half of them with Acid maw to go with the guy and another pack with enhanced senses to ride alone. This way I could spread them more and keep them relevant at the same time.
On the other hand, what about the 100% melee-fex? 2x scything talons, spore cysts, tusks, adrenal glands. It turns out to be very cheap, and it is pretty devastating on the charge. MW on a 4+, +1 to hit and +1 attack, plus one more from the dual weapons and reroll 1's. You get per charge:
MW on a 4+, 6 attacks with WS 3+ and reroll 1's, str 6. You can sprinkle a couple of them with crushing claws for the really tough targets and have them ride by the OOE to benefit from his aura. If you make them Kraken, you can leave combat and charge again at the same turn to benefit from all the charge bonuses again and again. Oh and with spore cysts, they are not going down any time soon.
14000
15000
4000
2018/04/24 13:04:19
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Deploy Swarmlord, 2x Hormagaunt units, triple Zoanthropes and the Hive Guard. Swarmlord can, I believe, Hive Commander itself up to keep pace with the Hormagaunts. Zoanthropes will advance and then start blasting out Smites, as well as probably Catalyst and Onslaught. Hive Tyrants will have Paroxysm and Scream. Hive Guard should shoot stuff up from behind LoS blocking terrain.
Mawlocs, Tyrants and Termagants w/ Pod arrive T2 as a big old Beta strike. The Mawlocs can come in tight to the enemy, the Tyrants don't necessarily need to and are nicely mobile. The Termagants and 'Cyte can toss out a fair amount of firepower - I think they would want to come in on top of an objective and just hold onto it.
Deploy Swarmlord, 2x Hormagaunt units, triple Zoanthropes and the Hive Guard. Swarmlord can, I believe, Hive Commander itself up to keep pace with the Hormagaunts. Zoanthropes will advance and then start blasting out Smites, as well as probably Catalyst and Onslaught. Hive Tyrants will have Paroxysm and Scream. Hive Guard should shoot stuff up from behind LoS blocking terrain.
Mawlocs, Tyrants and Termagants w/ Pod arrive T2 as a big old Beta strike. The Mawlocs can come in tight to the enemy, the Tyrants don't necessarily need to and are nicely mobile. The Termagants and 'Cyte can toss out a fair amount of firepower - I think they would want to come in on top of an objective and just hold onto it.
Is there a specific reason why the spearhead is behemouth? May kronos for the anti-psyker or Jormagunder for the +1 save on the mawlocs
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is the Hive Crone more viable now for the T1 charge? Like the model... but cant make myself use it because its so bad for the points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 14:13:16
Swarm all!
2018/04/24 14:24:52
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Deploy Swarmlord, 2x Hormagaunt units, triple Zoanthropes and the Hive Guard. Swarmlord can, I believe, Hive Commander itself up to keep pace with the Hormagaunts. Zoanthropes will advance and then start blasting out Smites, as well as probably Catalyst and Onslaught. Hive Tyrants will have Paroxysm and Scream. Hive Guard should shoot stuff up from behind LoS blocking terrain.
Mawlocs, Tyrants and Termagants w/ Pod arrive T2 as a big old Beta strike. The Mawlocs can come in tight to the enemy, the Tyrants don't necessarily need to and are nicely mobile. The Termagants and 'Cyte can toss out a fair amount of firepower - I think they would want to come in on top of an objective and just hold onto it.
Is there a specific reason why the spearhead is behemouth? May kronos for the anti-psyker or Jormagunder for the +1 save on the mawlocs
That is why I asked for advice on Hive Fleet options. Wasn't really sure what would have the best synergy. They will be close enough that re-rolling charges probably won't matter and can usually just be CP'd to success. Kronos only offers the psyker strategem, but the adaptation doesn't really benefit the detachment. Nor does Jormungandr as much, since they are CC units that want to be charging. I posited Behemoth or Kraken because they would theoretically benefit the detachment as a whole. Leviathan maybe useful too, just for an added layer of durability.
Harpies and Hive Crones are much more useful now, much like Heldrakes, for charging into a bunch of tanks and clogging them up. Their shooting and melee are still pretty bad but they have the wounds to eat up overwatch and the base to multi assault everything that you don’t want knocking down your important stuff for a turn. I prefer harpies in my spore mine list just to choke up more of the board with spores.
2018/04/24 20:26:49
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Might just be formatting, but are those 3 individual Zoanthropes or one unit of 3 Zoanthropes? Zoanthrope broods need a minimum of 3 models and really want to have at least 4 models to unlock their brood bonus. I'd probably forgo upgrades on the Mawlocs. They really aren't there to fight so much as disrupt and tie things down for other units and neither of the biomorphs are hugely beneficial to them (Adrenal Glands are mostly irrelevant since they tend to be in the thick of things post arrival and Toxin Sacs aren't especially helpful due to the lack of AP on their attacks).
The biggest "issue" I see with the list is that it doesn't really feel like a beta strike list so much as one tailored for board control. It has a lot of highly mobile units and disruption tools but relatively light killing power. It isn't really going to win based on a crippling counter punch so much as the ability to pin down enemy assets while aiming to dominate on objectives. Not a bad thing mind you.
That is why I asked for advice on Hive Fleet options. Wasn't really sure what would have the best synergy. They will be close enough that re-rolling charges probably won't matter and can usually just be CP'd to success. Kronos only offers the psyker strategem, but the adaptation doesn't really benefit the detachment. Nor does Jormungandr as much, since they are CC units that want to be charging. I posited Behemoth or Kraken because they would theoretically benefit the detachment as a whole. Leviathan maybe useful too, just for an added layer of durability.
Jormundgandr is actually (and appropriately) good for Mawlocs since the turn they arrive they are forbidden from charging, so having a 2+ makes them an even more obnoxious fire magnet than usual. Main problem though is that it does nothing for the winged Tyrants beyond maybe their unique Warlord Trait.
I think out of all of the adaptations Leviathan is probably the only one that really synergies with your list. There are quite a few models with Fly that can be used to set of their stratagem and quite a bit of synapse creatures to benefit from the adaptation itself. Plus, the Leviathan warlord trait is fairly good on a Hive Tyrant (one free reroll per round).
2018/04/24 20:39:13
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Might just be formatting, but are those 3 individual Zoanthropes or one unit of 3 Zoanthropes? Zoanthrope broods need a minimum of 3 models and really want to have at least 4 models to unlock their brood bonus. I'd probably forgo upgrades on the Mawlocs. They really aren't there to fight so much as disrupt and tie things down for other units and neither of the biomorphs are hugely beneficial to them (Adrenal Glands are mostly irrelevant since they tend to be in the thick of things post arrival and Toxin Sacs aren't especially helpful due to the lack of AP on their attacks).
The biggest "issue" I see with the list is that it doesn't really feel like a beta strike list so much as one tailored for board control. It has a lot of highly mobile units and disruption tools but relatively light killing power. It isn't really going to win based on a crippling counter punch so much as the ability to pin down enemy assets while aiming to dominate on objectives. Not a bad thing mind you.
That is why I asked for advice on Hive Fleet options. Wasn't really sure what would have the best synergy. They will be close enough that re-rolling charges probably won't matter and can usually just be CP'd to success. Kronos only offers the psyker strategem, but the adaptation doesn't really benefit the detachment. Nor does Jormungandr as much, since they are CC units that want to be charging. I posited Behemoth or Kraken because they would theoretically benefit the detachment as a whole. Leviathan maybe useful too, just for an added layer of durability.
Jormundgandr is actually (and appropriately) good for Mawlocs since the turn they arrive they are forbidden from charging, so having a 2+ makes them an even more obnoxious fire magnet than usual. Main problem though is that it does nothing for the winged Tyrants beyond maybe their unique Warlord Trait.
I think out of all of the adaptations Leviathan is probably the only one that really synergies with your list. There are quite a few models with Fly that can be used to set of their stratagem and quite a bit of synapse creatures to benefit from the adaptation itself. Plus, the Leviathan warlord trait is fairly good on a Hive Tyrant (one free reroll per round).
Darn. Thought Zoanthropes were 1+. That screw up my list a bit. Will have to adjust with some other filler unit. Probably just do Rippers or something. Should be fine without them for Synapse. And I see your point about it not being as much about being a turn two glass cannon - or "Beta Strike". More meant that it really lands on T2, as all my units should be on the opponent by then.
I do like Leviathan for the list. The added durability seems worth it when I am in the opponent's face and likely eating a load of shooting. The strategem is a decent perk too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 20:40:59
Spreelock wrote: Yeah, hydra and endless swarm has a serious issues at matched play. If they would make reinforcements free, but increase cp cost, that might solve the problem. Kronos seems very popular now, but I think that they are trying to do something (shooting) that is not what nids are supposed to do.
Tyranids have always been a hybrid army, with surprising amounts of shooting. It is one of the odd things that make them fun.
Kronos is popular because it brings psychic denial and shooting, and can be splashed in a way that compliments other Hive Fleets. Aggressively played deeps striking Kronos Rippers combined with an aggressive Kronos warlord Neurothrope can do a lot to limit casting, shutting down key spells, Hive Guard and Biovores are strong (even after the cost increase), and the core Kronos battalion (3x3 Ripper, 2x Neuro) is less than 240 points. Lots of utility there.
2018/04/25 12:01:28
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So I am re-working my previous list with the Mawlocs and was curious what folks thought about the viability of deploying them T1, then opting to Burrow in your movement phase. Mostly I am leaning towards this because I can't seem to keep half my army off table easily and this would open up to a larger T2 arrival.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: So I am re-working my previous list with the Mawlocs and was curious what folks thought about the viability of deploying them T1, then opting to Burrow in your movement phase. Mostly I am leaning towards this because I can't seem to keep half my army off table easily and this would open up to a larger T2 arrival.
Thoughts?
I too plan on doing this. Haven't actually played it yet, but it seems like a good option.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
em_en_oh_pee wrote: So I am re-working my previous list with the Mawlocs and was curious what folks thought about the viability of deploying them T1, then opting to Burrow in your movement phase. Mostly I am leaning towards this because I can't seem to keep half my army off table easily and this would open up to a larger T2 arrival.
Thoughts?
I too plan on doing this. Haven't actually played it yet, but it seems like a good option.
My big concern is eating a full round of shooting before I can burrow, then another one when I pop up. This seems like a potentially awful liability. Not easy to hide a Mawloc behind terrain either. Though I guess you could just put them out of range of enemy guns?
No reason you can't just put them in a corner outside the range of most weapons. Any weapons they do absorb is just weapons not firing at your other stuff.
6000+
2500
2000
2000
2018/04/25 15:05:40
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Zimko wrote: No reason you can't just put them in a corner outside the range of most weapons. Any weapons they do absorb is just weapons not firing at your other stuff.
Yup. Hide them in the corner and/or behind LoS blocking terrain.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Long time lurker, not much of a chatter... but no one is answering my question online.
Before game starts:
Unit of genestealers use Jormungandr stratagem to burrow.
Turn 1 movement:
Previously deployed lictor moves up the field (like normal)
End of turn 1 movement:
Unit of tunneling raveners using Pheromone Trail stratagem tunnel towards the Lictor up field.
Unit of burrowed genestealers then burrow to raveners now on the table.
So my questions are:
1. Can I use pheromone trail turn 1 to tunnel raveners outside my deployment zone?
If so....
2. Can I tunnel a previously burrowed infantry unit (using Jormungandr stratagem) to the just "un-tunneled" raveners?
2018/04/26 14:25:03
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
PartyMuffin wrote: Long time lurker, not much of a chatter... but no one is answering my question online.
Before game starts:
Unit of genestealers use Jormungandr stratagem to burrow.
Turn 1 movement:
Previously deployed lictor moves up the field (like normal)
End of turn 1 movement:
Unit of tunneling raveners using Pheromone Trail stratagem tunnel towards the Lictor up field.
Unit of burrowed genestealers then burrow to raveners now on the table.
So my questions are:
1. Can I use pheromone trail turn 1 to tunnel raveners outside my deployment zone?
If so....
2. Can I tunnel a previously burrowed infantry unit (using Jormungandr stratagem) to the just "un-tunneled" raveners?
This topic is heavaly discussed over at the hive mind forum. You should take this to you make the call, and not on the strategy section.
Until it is in the you make the call section of the forum there will be no discussion of this.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: So I am re-working my previous list with the Mawlocs and was curious what folks thought about the viability of deploying them T1, then opting to Burrow in your movement phase. Mostly I am leaning towards this because I can't seem to keep half my army off table easily and this would open up to a larger T2 arrival.
Thoughts?
I too plan on doing this. Haven't actually played it yet, but it seems like a good option.
My big concern is eating a full round of shooting before I can burrow, then another one when I pop up. This seems like a potentially awful liability. Not easy to hide a Mawloc behind terrain either. Though I guess you could just put them out of range of enemy guns?
They're like 100 pts each. Play 4. Let them shoot at your Mawlocs. Be happy if they do, really. 2 rounds of heavy shooting to down 200 pts worth of monsters? yes please, do it more. Greatest DISTRACTION CARNIFEX of this edition.
Plus on turn two you can charge from 1" away and block a big shooter for the next turn.
14000
15000
4000
2018/04/26 14:54:36
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
em_en_oh_pee wrote: So I am re-working my previous list with the Mawlocs and was curious what folks thought about the viability of deploying them T1, then opting to Burrow in your movement phase. Mostly I am leaning towards this because I can't seem to keep half my army off table easily and this would open up to a larger T2 arrival.
Thoughts?
I too plan on doing this. Haven't actually played it yet, but it seems like a good option.
My big concern is eating a full round of shooting before I can burrow, then another one when I pop up. This seems like a potentially awful liability. Not easy to hide a Mawloc behind terrain either. Though I guess you could just put them out of range of enemy guns?
They're like 100 pts each. Play 4. Let them shoot at your Mawlocs. Be happy if they do, really. 2 rounds of heavy shooting to down 200 pts worth of monsters? yes please, do it more. Greatest DISTRACTION CARNIFEX of this edition.
Plus on turn two you can charge from 1" away and block a big shooter for the next turn.
Can't play 4. Max of 3. And they can't charge on T2, because that is when they would arrive and is thus prohibited by Terror from the Deep - unless I missed a FAQ because we have sooooooo many now to keep up with (side-eye to GW for that nonsense).
But really just putting them out of range seems a good option, but still having to eat a turn of shooting is a pain. Though with three arriving along with a few Flyrants, it might be more than many armies can handle.
14000
15000
4000 
10000+
8500+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
6000+
2000
