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2018/04/28 12:45:36
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I hadn’t noticed that index FAQ, that’s great news for shrikes. As I understand it, you can use anything from the index, as long as points come from the current codex. So it would be valid, assuming some sort of apocalyptic end of index event doesn’t happen.
For shrikes to really benefit though the Prime would probably have to deepstrike through a pod or Jormungandr stratagem, or they’re gonna leave him in the dust.
2018/04/28 13:13:33
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The Malanthrope is so much more protected against enemy shooting. It only take a volley of S4 shots to make the Venomthropes useless.
140pts well spent, especially against tau, am and orks.
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Badablack wrote: I hadn’t noticed that index FAQ, that’s great news for shrikes. As I understand it, you can use anything from the index, as long as points come from the current codex. So it would be valid, assuming some sort of apocalyptic end of index event doesn’t happen.
For shrikes to really benefit though the Prime would probably have to deepstrike through a pod or Jormungandr stratagem, or they’re gonna leave him in the dust.
Wings for the prime.... That’s the dream!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/28 13:15:37
Swarm all!
2018/04/28 13:37:10
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I’m goin go the London GT in May, I know for sure I won’t win all my games, because well- I am not tactical genius. But does my list look decent enough to fight against other armies using the new beta rules / FAQ?
The missions are eternal war primary with maelstrom secondary so I’ve gone for a reasonably fast army with the ability to deep strike some rippers later into the game for objective grabbing.
The warriors are there to give a bit more synanpse to the backfield as well as some heavy Bolter shots... thanks for any feedback!
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [104 PL, 2000pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kraken
Stratagem: Bounty of the Hive Fleet (-1 CP): 1 Extra Bio-artefact
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Army wide -1 shield thanks to Venomthropes, combined with 6+ FNP thanks to Leviathan, should make for a hard chunk of units to remove, and I'm thinking that block of 6 Venoms in a unit might just be an actual CC threat on their own and they actually aren't too pricey.
Enhanced senses on all Dakkafexes, not too worried about tarpits with two full units of Bonesword Warriors hitting on 2+ (Prime bubble), and their durability synergises well with the army buffs. Heavy shooting army with strong CC coverage thanks to the versatility of Warriors, and a strong emphasis on durability without any obvious targets (Exocrine dependent, but I think his coverage is necessary). I think this list actually has me excited to play Nids again, and I actually have all the models except the Venoms (I doubt anyone own 6 Venoms before this edition ).
This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2018/04/29 04:01:58
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/04/29 15:54:14
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
SHUPPET wrote: Alright I'm looking at making my something a little more balanced foe a 2k points bracket, with hopefully a lot of staying power.
I really like that list, but you need 1 more HQ choice for battalion detachment. I'd suggest dropping the Exocrine (somewhat redundant with the Hive Guard) for another Prime so your warrior broods can operate independently if needed and use the left over points for a Sporocyst with Barbed Stranglers (comes to the exact amount left over and does a lot for the army - increased synapse coverage and provides another source of mortal wounds via its bombs). Alternatively you could go for a Hive Tyrant of some form to keep up the monster count.
I'm thinking that block of 6 Venoms in a unit might just be an actual CC threat on their own and they actually aren't too pricey.
I've been using them fairly heavily with my Jormungandr lists (using the stratagem to deploy them up-field with whatever else) and they have done some good work. The first time I ran them they tore up a Dakkajet that ended its move too close (lashed it in shooting, then charged it and finished it off) and helped finish off a unit of Nobs before the game ended. The most recent game with a block of 6 saw them kill a Necron scarab unit, an Immortal unit that had been tied down by Hormagaunts, and put some wounds on a Pylon before going down in the resulting explosion. They are kinda like a warrior unit that does half of its attacks in the shooting phase, albeit one that trades accuracy for rerolls to wound.
Also worth keeping in mind they are able to use the Feeder Tendrils stratagem so it is worth keeping an eye out for character targets to suck the brains out of. Having a means of regaining CP is nice, if admittedly highly conditional to get off.
gigasnail wrote: @Strat_N8 you can't use The Enemy Below on venomthropes, if that's what you were referring to. They have the FLY keyword.
They don't benefit from Jormungandr's adaptation due to having FLY, but The Enemy Below only requires the target be a Jormungandr Infantry unit. Maybe you're thinking Opportunistic Advance?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/29 16:25:27
2018/04/29 17:39:03
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
gigasnail wrote: @Strat_N8 you can't use The Enemy Below on venomthropes, if that's what you were referring to. They have the FLY keyword.
They don't benefit from Jormungandr's adaptation due to having FLY, but The Enemy Below only requires the target be a Jormungandr Infantry unit. Maybe you're thinking Opportunistic Advance?
I don't normally comment on specifics like this without book in hand but I was pretty certain the FLY prohibition was in the strat. It certainly isnt...my mistake there.
2018/04/29 18:22:28
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I'm agreeing that malanthrope + 60-90 hormagaunts is going to be the starting block of most of my lists here out. Not too terribly expensive points wise, but the gaunts are plenty fast enough to get to the opponent's lines turn 2 at the latest. This is also a place where I'm thinking of dusting off my old gargoyles. Plus, more and more I'm thinking that Leviathan might be the best fleet in the long run. Yeah, the mega ferrari genestealers are good, but enough people have seen that gimmick that I doubt it will work much longer. Getting that additional 16% durability on our hordes will be crucial.
Gaunts and Gargs will move in fast to pick on screens/outliers, hopefully together. I'm also hoping that between the warriros, tyrants, and hive guard that I have enough AT. Not sure which 'thrope will move foreward and which will sit with the hive guard. I understand that in most cases devourers are a better choice than the HVC on tyrants, I just have a meta heavy in vehicles, so I need that extra punch to get through all the dreads and preds I see on a day-to-day.
2018/04/29 19:19:45
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Whoops good catch, thanks, I'll juggle it around a bit, or maybe (probably) just not go for a Battalion. You think the Exocrine is not so important?
Good to hear Venoms are capable of pulling a little weight, I'm interested to see what I can pull off with them. Also How easy is it for most armies to chew a 6 man unit down by 4 so that mcs lose the bonus?
(I doubt anyone own 6 Venoms before this edition ).
I actually did... I have 3 of the finecast ones from 5th edition and built 3 of the new (very pretty) plastic ones when their kit came out.
Lol you maniac
tho to be fair, I also have the finecast one, and it's easily the worst quality model in my entire army, the entire thing is basically spaghetti and it even just bent over time (not from handling) at the tail and sits on a strong lean. Can't believe this was something GW thought was a good idea.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/29 21:55:00
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/04/30 03:01:51
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I won a local tourney this weekend using all the updated errata, and I’d have to say my MVPs were definitely three Sporocysts. Having a near monopoly on deepstriking and board control turn 1 was huge. They were invariably blown off the board, but having the rest of my army free to go where they wanted made the mostly objective based missions much easier to snatch up.
2018/04/30 06:58:28
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
There are no easy ways to take out venoms, they are bad targets no matter what you shoot at it.
- Hit penalty
- Multi wound
- At long range
- Almost always in cover for a 4+
The only weapon which was decent against them, the mortars, just got badly capped.
Apart from that there are no long range weapons which specialize in taking down multi wound low armored targets. IG arty and tanks are the ones that do this better, but they are badly hurt by the -1 to hit, and d3 damage is bad at taking down 3W targets (1,78 damage rolls required to kill one). This means that a Catachan manticore kills on average 1 venom. You are looking at a firing 4-5 times the venom's point cost to kill it, and that's with one of the best weapons out there for this job. Only problem would be Dark Reapers, each of them kills 0,46 venoms.
Add to this that venoms are a forced target for your enemy, so they are the perfect place to put your catalyst.
2018/04/30 13:00:31
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So I just picked up Tyranids and I know a lot is in flux right now so finding solid information is tough but I was wondering if these seemed like workable units to use:
2 Hive Tyrants with wing
6 Hive Guard
30 Termagants with Devorer
2 Tyrannofex
I'm realizing now a little late that I think I would have preferred Hormogants or at least just stock weapon on the Termagants.
I can't seem to make sense of relics. I haven't played a game yet but to an uneducated read through it seems like the Norn Crown could be super relevant but everywhere I read says this thing should never, ever be taken.
2018/04/30 13:14:11
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Yeah, nearly every list I build takes the Norn Crown because almost everything else seems to be utterly bland. Balethorn is the only other thing that interests me, but even that’s a niche anti-Daemon weapon that requires you to take a HT in a Kronos HQ slot that could instead be a Neurothrope or Malanthrope or even a Prime that benefits a gunline Detachment far more by virtue of better buffs and not dying on the first turn of it’s a serious threat to your opponent’s MVU.
If Primes could take a monstrous weapon, then it’d be a very different story.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 13:15:08
SHUPPET wrote: Thing is, Malanthropes are 1 model with a 3" bubble. That's not a lot of models especially with the size of the main models we probably want to be protecting right, especially when factoring in terrain, and it severely restricts their movement too, theseunits have to remain within spitting distance of a 5" movespeed Malanthrope. As for Venomthrope, they cover the needed ground a lot better but won't cover the important models if one gets killed, which is easy to do because no character, and they don't provide synapse.
I don't think either unit is particularly good at its own role and both have next to zero offensive presence, I don't think either will ever make back the points cost in wounds prevented.
Just move and advance him. You can daisy chain and effectively have him shroud at least half your army. I have done it with 30x hormies, 2x 20 blocks of GS and a flyrant nearby. He shrouded everyone as I advance up.
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SHUPPET wrote: Alright I'm looking at making my something a little more balanced foe a 2k points bracket, with hopefully a lot of staying power.
Army wide -1 shield thanks to Venomthropes, combined with 6+ FNP thanks to Leviathan, should make for a hard chunk of units to remove, and I'm thinking that block of 6 Venoms in a unit might just be an actual CC threat on their own and they actually aren't too pricey.
Enhanced senses on all Dakkafexes, not too worried about tarpits with two full units of Bonesword Warriors hitting on 2+ (Prime bubble), and their durability synergises well with the army buffs. Heavy shooting army with strong CC coverage thanks to the versatility of Warriors, and a strong emphasis on durability without any obvious targets (Exocrine dependent, but I think his coverage is necessary). I think this list actually has me excited to play Nids again, and I actually have all the models except the Venoms (I doubt anyone own 6 Venoms before this edition ).
You need an HQ...Like maybe a Malanthrope instead of venoms.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
stalkerzero wrote: So I just picked up Tyranids and I know a lot is in flux right now so finding solid information is tough but I was wondering if these seemed like workable units to use:
2 Hive Tyrants with wing
6 Hive Guard
30 Termagants with Devorer
2 Tyrannofex
I'm realizing now a little late that I think I would have preferred Hormogants or at least just stock weapon on the Termagants.
I can't seem to make sense of relics. I haven't played a game yet but to an uneducated read through it seems like the Norn Crown could be super relevant but everywhere I read says this thing should never, ever be taken.
Thats a fantastic core to build a solid list around. YOu can still get some GS in there.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/30 13:22:16
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SHUPPET wrote: Thing is, Malanthropes are 1 model with a 3" bubble. That's not a lot of models especially with the size of the main models we probably want to be protecting right, especially when factoring in terrain, and it severely restricts their movement too, theseunits have to remain within spitting distance of a 5" movespeed Malanthrope. As for Venomthrope, they cover the needed ground a lot better but won't cover the important models if one gets killed, which is easy to do because no character, and they don't provide synapse.
I don't think either unit is particularly good at its own role and both have next to zero offensive presence, I don't think either will ever make back the points cost in wounds prevented.
Just move and advance him. You can daisy chain and effectively have him shroud at least half your army. I have done it with 30x hormies, 2x 20 blocks of GS and a flyrant nearby. He shrouded everyone as I advance up.
Teach me how to fit 6 Carnifexes, 20 Warriors and an Exocrine within 3" of a Malanthrope and then keep them there all the way up the board.
I think it might be army specific, seems like Malanthrope works better at shielding infantry units who only need to keep one model close to benefit the squad
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/04/30 13:23:49
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
lindsay40k wrote: Yeah, nearly every list I build takes the Norn Crown because almost everything else seems to be utterly bland. Balethorn is the only other thing that interests me, but even that’s a niche anti-Daemon weapon that requires you to take a HT in a Kronos HQ slot that could instead be a Neurothrope or Malanthrope or even a Prime that benefits a gunline Detachment far more by virtue of better buffs and not dying on the first turn of it’s a serious threat to your opponent’s MVU.
If Primes could take a monstrous weapon, then it’d be a very different story.
The norn Crown is useless unless your playing on a really large table for Apoc. IB hardly every comes up. Try taking the Reaper of Obliterax with Toxin sacs
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3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
stalkerzero wrote: So I just picked up Tyranids and I know a lot is in flux right now so finding solid information is tough but I was wondering if these seemed like workable units to use:
2 Hive Tyrants with wing
6 Hive Guard
30 Termagants with Devorer
2 Tyrannofex
I'm realizing now a little late that I think I would have preferred Hormogants or at least just stock weapon on the Termagants.
I can't seem to make sense of relics. I haven't played a game yet but to an uneducated read through it seems like the Norn Crown could be super relevant but everywhere I read says this thing should never, ever be taken.
I think Crown is a good choice in this edition. You are probably reading old info, because it's been a garbage choice forever up till now just cause of how the ruled were structured. It's still not particularly incredible, but neither are the other options and it seems more practical then the rest.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 13:26:31
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/04/30 13:26:58
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
SHUPPET wrote: Thing is, Malanthropes are 1 model with a 3" bubble. That's not a lot of models especially with the size of the main models we probably want to be protecting right, especially when factoring in terrain, and it severely restricts their movement too, theseunits have to remain within spitting distance of a 5" movespeed Malanthrope. As for Venomthrope, they cover the needed ground a lot better but won't cover the important models if one gets killed, which is easy to do because no character, and they don't provide synapse.
I don't think either unit is particularly good at its own role and both have next to zero offensive presence, I don't think either will ever make back the points cost in wounds prevented.
Just move and advance him. You can daisy chain and effectively have him shroud at least half your army. I have done it with 30x hormies, 2x 20 blocks of GS and a flyrant nearby. He shrouded everyone as I advance up.
Teach me how to fit 6 Carnifexes, 20 Warriors and an Exocrine within 3" of a Malanthrope and then keep them there all the way up the board.
I think it might be army specific, seems like Malanthrope works better at shielding infantry units who only need to keep one model close to benefit the squad
Well your problem there is you have all MC. Of course thats not got to fit all that. If your running Dakka Fex and Exocrine I would put them in cover if you can. If not just accept that they will get shot. I ran a Leviathan list that shrouded that many warriors. Just put the malanthrope in the middle. Prime behind to buff the warriors. Then warriors to either side, daisy chaining them. Solid firebase with Prime and Malantrhope buffs, and Leviathan 6+++. Did a tourney on it, no one ever killed more than half my warriors.
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So what you're saying is that it's army dependant, and doesn't work that well at covering mcs? Cause I feel like that's what I just said. *glances upwards* Yup, that's definitely what I just said.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/04/30 14:36:25
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
SHUPPET wrote: So what you're saying is that it's army dependant, and doesn't work that well at covering mcs? Cause I feel like that's what I just said. *glances upwards* Yup, that's definitely what I just said.
You can run carnifexs with -1 to hit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zimko wrote: They're carnifexes... they come with their own -1 for 10 pts (and it doesn't stack with venoms). The rest can easily fit into a bubble.
This
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 14:41:57
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You put the priority targets near the Malanthrope, and as they die over the course of a game you move the ‘Thrope around to cover new targets. The Exocrine is going to be taking a lot more fire than the Warriors if you’re fighting a parking lot, and so on.
2018/04/30 15:42:16
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Zimko wrote:They're carnifexes... they come with their own -1 for 10 pts (and it doesn't stack with venoms). The rest can easily fit into a bubble.
Dynas wrote:
SHUPPET wrote: So what you're saying is that it's army dependant, and doesn't work that well at covering mcs? Cause I feel like that's what I just said. *glances upwards* Yup, that's definitely what I just said.
You can run carnifexs with -1 to hit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zimko wrote: They're carnifexes... they come with their own -1 for 10 pts (and it doesn't stack with venoms). The rest can easily fit into a bubble.
This
Lol.
Cool, so what you guys are saying is that the Malanthrope won't be able to shroud 6+ mcs, and that it's effectiveness in covering your models is army dependant? Cause I feel like I've already said that twice now *glances upwards* I'm getting some serious DejaVu here.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/04/30 15:54:08
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
What you said was that neither Malanthrope or Venoms are going to be great at making back their points and cited reasons why which included the Malanthrope behing unable to cover 6 carnifexes. We're just pointing out why that is not a valid reason to say that Malanthrope can't do their job since Malanthropes are not needed to provide -1 to carnifexes.
But sure, just ignore context.
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2018/04/30 15:56:06
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Zimko wrote: What you said was that neither Malanthrope or Venoms are going to be great at making back their points and cited reasons why which included the Malanthrope behing unable to cover 6 carnifexes. We're just pointing out why that is not a valid reason to say that Malanthrope can't do their job since Malanthropes are not needed to provide -1 to carnifexes.
But sure, just ignore context.
You're the one completely ignoring the context.
The guy literally quoted my list with 6 Carnifexes, an Exocrine, 2 units of Hive guards in the same post and said that a Malanthrope can be used to shroud MY army well. Recheck that context you claim others are ignoring because that's beyond ironic.
If your entire army fits under a Malanthrope bubble more power to you, that's an interesting input on my original quote from days ago, but doesn't change gak to do with the context of this one.
Also, never mind the fact that regardless of context. every response made by him was literally just repeating what I'd already said.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/04/30 16:11:30
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/04/30 16:24:56
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
gigasnail wrote:
I don't normally comment on specifics like this without book in hand but I was pretty certain the FLY prohibition was in the strat. It certainly isnt...my mistake there.
No need to worry. I've made similar goofs myself.
SHUPPET wrote: You think the Exocrine is not so important?
Not so much unimportant as much as it seemed like the least disruptive thing to drop as far as threat saturation goes. A single Exocrine is a bit of a fire magnet, especially without any other 12+ wound monsters around to attract heavy firepower.
SHUPPET wrote:
tho to be fair, I also have the finecast one, and it's easily the worst quality model in my entire army, the entire thing is basically spaghetti and it even just bent over time (not from handling) at the tail and sits on a strong lean. Can't believe this was something GW thought was a good idea.
One of mine did that as well. Just give it a brief dunk in hot water and the bulk of it will snap back into its original shape by itself or with a little prodding. Repeat as necessary.
I can't seem to make sense of relics. I haven't played a game yet but to an uneducated read through it seems like the Norn Crown could be super relevant but everywhere I read says this thing should never, ever be taken.
The main issue with the Norn Crown is that it only affects the range that the bearer disables Instinctive Behavior without extending synapse range proper, meaning it is only really useful to allow a front-line synapse character to keep backfield artillery under control. Most of the other relics are for customizing your Hive Tyrants with unique equipment, with a handful of exceptions (Reaper of Oblitrax, Ymgarl Factor, Maw Claws, Gorgon Relic, Kraken Relic, Jormungandr Relic).
I have 3 of the finecast ones from 5th edition and built 3 of the new (very pretty) plastic ones when their kit came out.
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