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 JohnnyHell wrote:
Yeah. Too bad people forget fluff =/= collecting. This is like those posts where someone complains about a White Scars army being all bikes, Custodes simply existing, someone having collected Deathwing Knights (that are CC). Lording fluff over people is silly when crunch and model ranges don't always match it.

If you complain about someone with a Deathwing army wanting viable CC, why aren't you kicking off that the Ultramarines Codex now seems to read "Though Shalt Spam Razorbacks", or that every third army contains a Primarch?

Just let people collect what they want and air their gripes. People are allowed to be disappointed in a disappointing Chapter Tactic. Telling them "you should have different models to fit my view of your fluff" is just silly.

But by pigeon holing rules to force players to play their army in form X when that's not actually how they actually work interferes with collecting that army.

When you have white scars with rule that pretty much forces player to play bike horde or throw away his chapter tactic you get in way of people wanting to play white scars as they are actually described in fluff which is not all bikes stupidity.

Similarly if Blood Angels don't work as TAC codex adhering chapter but instead go to some weird assault marine/death company/sanguinor guard alpha strike melee army that's invalidating tons of blood angel armies.

Stupid pigeon holing rules are huge problem.

so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Yeah. Too bad people forget fluff =/= collecting. This is like those posts where someone complains about a White Scars army being all bikes, Custodes simply existing, someone having collected Deathwing Knights (that are CC). Lording fluff over people is silly when crunch and model ranges don't always match it.

If you complain about someone with a Deathwing army wanting viable CC, why aren't you kicking off that the Ultramarines Codex now seems to read "Though Shalt Spam Razorbacks", or that every third army contains a Primarch?

Just let people collect what they want and air their gripes. People are allowed to be disappointed in a disappointing Chapter Tactic. Telling them "you should have different models to fit my view of your fluff" is just silly.

But by pigeon holing rules to force players to play their army in form X when that's not actually how they actually work interferes with collecting that army.

When you have white scars with rule that pretty much forces player to play bike horde or throw away his chapter tactic you get in way of people wanting to play white scars as they are actually described in fluff which is not all bikes stupidity.

Similarly if Blood Angels don't work as TAC codex adhering chapter but instead go to some weird assault marine/death company/sanguinor guard alpha strike melee army that's invalidating tons of blood angel armies.

Stupid pigeon holing rules are huge problem.

Anyone can play a fully Codex-adherent army using Codex: Blue Marines and counts-as. Nothing invalidates the adherent style if that's how you want to play.

It makes sense that the split Codexes get the 'flavourful' and non-adherent rules, else there's no point in the book.

Mental Surge wrote:
so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

They even got their second one, as Codex Chaos Space Marines is avaiable for quite some time.

Mental Surge wrote:
so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

Seeing as it looks like all the major codicies are going to be out by easter, no-one can really complain when compared to previous release schedules.

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Yeah. Too bad people forget fluff =/= collecting. This is like those posts where someone complains about a White Scars army being all bikes, Custodes simply existing, someone having collected Deathwing Knights (that are CC). Lording fluff over people is silly when crunch and model ranges don't always match it.

If you complain about someone with a Deathwing army wanting viable CC, why aren't you kicking off that the Ultramarines Codex now seems to read "Though Shalt Spam Razorbacks", or that every third army contains a Primarch?

Just let people collect what they want and air their gripes. People are allowed to be disappointed in a disappointing Chapter Tactic. Telling them "you should have different models to fit my view of your fluff" is just silly.

But by pigeon holing rules to force players to play their army in form X when that's not actually how they actually work interferes with collecting that army.

When you have white scars with rule that pretty much forces player to play bike horde or throw away his chapter tactic you get in way of people wanting to play white scars as they are actually described in fluff which is not all bikes stupidity.

Similarly if Blood Angels don't work as TAC codex adhering chapter but instead go to some weird assault marine/death company/sanguinor guard alpha strike melee army that's invalidating tons of blood angel armies.

Stupid pigeon holing rules are huge problem.

People should not being tying to have it both ways. Either the army is "different" to normal Marines and needs a separate codex - or it isn't and it doesn't. Otherwise its the old I want to have cake and eat it.

Angels and Wolves have currently got codexes for good or ill (my vote is the latter) but they can't simply be Codex Marines plus extra stuff or why is there a Codex Marines at all.

All three were originally mainly codex adherent - with a few minor changes but sadly every new edition of their dex means gotta have more wulfy Wulf stuff or more Bloody Blood stuff or more monk stuff to self justify their existence and sell new models for this subfaction.

There is a vicious circle at the moment - these codex's need new models (have to keep making new Marines rather than the dozens of other non marine models that need making) and so have to have ever increasing flanderisation - especially with the Wulfy Wulf Wolves but the other two are following.

Seeing as it looks like all the major codicies are going to be out by easter, no-one can really complain when compared to previous release schedules

The old release schedule was terrible - this is not good either if you happen to want anything other than marines in the first 6-8th months of the game.

Mental Surge wrote:
so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

Anyone who wants to play 40K needs to be aware that SMs sell more than everything else put together. Unsurprisingly, GW prioritise SM books and kits.

You have to either accept this, or do a different game.

Mental Surge wrote:
so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

I dont understand that unless the reality of 40k is discounted. Space marines pay the bills for GW as for every Dark Eldar player I imagine there are at least 50 space marine players. It's just how it is.

I went and bought the codex today, looking foward to picking it up next week

I think it's a legitimate gripe.

Dark Angels and Blood Angels have been able to bash the Index with the basic Space Marine codex to have a very reasonable army (particularly with Chapter Approved available for points changes - though they didn't get any because of hte Codices).

I do agree that the special chapter codices should have likely been last. It's far easier to cope with a generic Space Marine codex than just an Index for other Xenos armies. It would have been a nice nod to the rest of the player base.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Mental Surge wrote:
so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

Anyone who wants to play 40K needs to be aware that SMs sell more than everything else put together. Unsurprisingly, GW prioritise SM books and kits.

You have to either accept this, or do a different game.

No one has to accept anything - this is a long standing self fulfilling prophercy.

If you spend virtually all of your resources on marketing one element of the game then only release new models for various differnt coloured Marines in the last six months - wierdly they sell the most.

I am quite interested in the DA fluff for the new Codex with all th changes in the universe but worry it will continue the trend of the last few.

I find the Vanilla SM codex to be pretty underwhelming. I played a WS Biker list with Flyer support in 6th and 7th. Can't find myself excited about list writing in 8th. I don't use Guilliman. I don't use Razor backs. I don't even use Troops.

We have a player who collects DA as well as Primaris UM. He utilizes the Scion of Guilliman strategem regularly. To me, Grim Resolve saves him a CP. Remember, GW is pushing the Primaris as the new Marines. If you can't see Grim Resolve (and the +1Dam strategem) being made for Hell blasters specifically, I have some news for you....

So do we have any idea what the Inner Circle rule will actually be?

Dark Angels Stormravens! Dark Angels Stormravens!

This was posted on /tg/



Looks a bit shady - like the text etc, idk.

 Nogil wrote:
This was posted on /tg/

Spoiler:

Looks a bit shade - like the text etc, idk.

Wow, not even worth 2 cp, unless it's hellblasters or something... maybe black knights?

I dunno. It looks a little blurry, but it's plausible enough. Not exactly too crazy for just 1 unit at 2 cp.

"...unless it's hellblasters or something"

Exactly!

2 CP's isn't bad for this ability.

It's not infantry only either.

Land Raiders, Mortis Dreads, etc.. the whole range.

Its a expensive but flexible Stratagem. Is not something to build your strategy around. Is something you use when the moment is ideal, and can you win you the game. Or help to it.

 Nogil wrote:
This was posted on /tg/

Spoiler:

Looks a bit shady - like the text etc, idk.

It's real from this Facebook teaser vidyo https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/videos/1936068110047152/

 Galas wrote:
Its a expensive but flexible Stratagem. Is not something to build your strategy around. Is something you use when the moment is ideal, and can you win you the game. Or help to it.

Would have loved this in a game the other day. Enemy assault termies grab my land raider in combat. It survives but needs to back out to let my other guys into the combat (tight terrain, no time to run around). Problem is, they've got TH/SS, my boys only have lightening claws.

Being able to unload a full land raider volley into them before charging would have been super helpful.

Another over priced strategem. 2 CPs for a single unit that ultrmarines can do for free.

Ultramarine tanks, etc. cannot do that for free.

 Elbows wrote:
I think it's a legitimate gripe.

Dark Angels and Blood Angels have been able to bash the Index with the basic Space Marine codex to have a very reasonable army (particularly with Chapter Approved available for points changes - though they didn't get any because of hte Codices).

I do agree that the special chapter codices should have likely been last. It's far easier to cope with a generic Space Marine codex than just an Index for other Xenos armies. It would have been a nice nod to the rest of the player base.

There are two sides to this coin; the snowflake chapters reuse a lot from the vanilla book, but many people play them for their unique units. BA and DA probably sell more than dark eldar or tau. Makes more sense to put in the low effort required for snowflake marines and please more people than more work for less people.

bobafett012 wrote:
Another over priced strategem. 2 CPs for a single unit that ultrmarines can do for free.

Ultra Marines can do it, but at -1 to hit. Also, that's their chapter tactic, so DA get something in addition too. Not to mention DA can do it with vehicles.

All I observed is that the CT benefits devastators with plasma cannons more than terminators.

That doesnt mean the codex wont have viable CC, DW, or DW builds.

A friend of mine who's a dark angel player pointed something out to me, if you park a Hellblaster squad next to one of those plasma terrain pieces in am industrial zone, and then used the Dark Age stratagem, you could have 20 S9 Ap-4 D4 shots.

Throw in Azrael and a lieutenant in for those re rolls and laugh as that shadow sword is now gone.

I know it's extremely situational but its still crazy to think about

That's nuts

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Mental Surge wrote:
so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

Anyone who wants to play 40K needs to be aware that SMs sell more than everything else put together. Unsurprisingly, GW prioritise SM books and kits.

You have to either accept this, or do a different game.

No one has to accept anything - this is a long standing self fulfilling prophercy.

If you spend virtually all of your resources on marketing one element of the game then only release new models for various differnt coloured Marines in the last six months - wierdly they sell the most.

I am quite interested in the DA fluff for the new Codex with all th changes in the universe but worry it will continue the trend of the last few.

Except that is not true.

GW spend the better part of 3 decades giving 40K and Warhammer Fantasy the exact same amount of releases. One Codex 40K, one Army book Fantasy, one plastic kit 40K, one plastic kit Fantasy. And never were they equally popular or was the demand from customers responsive to the relative amount of effort and resources GW spent.

They cannot control demand, even if they try. They were themselves surprised by the success of Space Marines in the first place. Companies much, much bigger than GW, including some of the world's largest corporations such as Coca Cola, McDonalds, Apple, the big car makers, etc.. have all tried to steer demand, and yet they cannot control which product will be classic coke and which one will be new coke, which one will be the next iPhone and which one will be Apple TV.

It doesn't work that way.

GW can only answer to the demand that is out there. And if 60% of the customers want Space Marines, than 60% of the releases should be Space Marines. Putting only .. dunno 10% of your resources into products that make up the 60% of the demand, while putting the same 10% into an army that is only demanded by 5% of the customer base is not only unfair to your customers but also commercial suicide.