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2017/11/29 21:16:50
Subject: Re:Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
endlesswaltz123 wrote: In regards to marines, I'm still and always will be of the opinion that all they need to do is get one techmarine on a major US military installation, and the same for Russia and they will have IT technology so advanced they will be in full control of the majority nuclear arsenal in not a lot of time.
Given how superstitious the 40k universe is about technology and the fact that such capabilities have never (as far as Im aware) been displayed by Techmarines or Techpriests really, I would be very surprised. Techmarines are much more field engineer and spanner monkey than elite hacker.
Another factor is how modern technology relies on being guided to targets. Yeah, the fleet assets cannot fire on the ground, but the thunderhawks don't have to even enter the atmosphere to cripple us. They can just spend a few hours sweeping satellites that are in orbit.
there are tens of thousands of satellites in orbit, most of them are junk, and theyre spread over many different orbital levels, most being dozens, hundreds or thousands of miles from the closest satellite. A chapter of Space Marines would only have 2-4 dozen Thunderhawks, that would take far more time than just a few hours to detect, identify, track, travel to, engage and destroy all of those. Likewise, if they're engaging satellites, they're in range of terrestrial weapons systems that can threaten and destroy them.
Such sweeps also hasn't generally been portrayed as something SM's typically engage in, seems an awful waste for genetically engineered super soldiers flying around in giant attack dropships to be doing what normal humans could do from far less valuable craft or even from the ground.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2017/11/29 22:29:28
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Formosa wrote: Adamantium, by today's understanding it's indestructible, im going off another universes interpretation of it as it exists in the "modern" world where "modern" weapons simply do nothing to it, it's a stretch but if 40k adamantium is the same stuff, then by extension nothing we have can even hurt it.
Space marine armour uses it, so do there tanks, so if the above statement is true, we literally have nothing that can destroy them. That's a big advantage.
the problem is we have ample evidence and examples of it being defeated by stuff that has very real modern day equivalents. Stuff like large Choppas wielded with enough force, autocannons, stubbers, mortars, grenades, etc.
What are the auto cannon rounds made from?
Seemingly explosive shells largely analagous to modern day ones by every account GW has ever given that I can find, they arent described as using particularly interesting materials or having exceptional armor penetration ability.
Stubber ammo?
By all accounts I can find, the same stuff modern bullets are made from, or worse. They are described, portrayed, and represented as identical to modern day weaponry.
Ork Shootas and Underhive gangers probably arnet using tungsten carbide adamantium wundermetals
Mortar shells can kill from over pressure,
two things here.
First, if marines are still vulnerable to overpessure this way, then any modern explosive will be perfectly effective against them, and they'll die to bombs, rockets, artillery, tank shells, etc that are form the majority of killing power on modern battlefields.
Second, at least in Storm of Iron, an IG infantry mortar is portrayed killing an Iron Warriors siege engineer and penetrating his armor with a direct hit.
How do we not know the ork background psychic nature isn't affecting how they fight space marines ? How strong is an actual ork?
By every account and every rule system and fluff description I have available, ork psychic background stuff has no bearing on the power of the weapon, rather its operation (e.g. they tend to go "click" and not "bang" in non Ork hands) and Ork strength is portrayed as above normal human level but not beyond match by the strongest of normal humans.
We make assumptions on all of this and some claim it as fact, a 40k assault rifle is identical to a modern one because it looks the same and uses bullets, it appears to apply damage in a similar manner, so it must be he same, at least I added the caveat that I was making a stretch.
looking over the old 2E Wargear book, FW books detailing things like Vraksian renegade stubbers, the FFGRPG books, etc, there appears to be no particular mention of exotic stubber ammo materials or the like being in common use (such ammo is available but is represented as being special and rare), but lots of commentary about how such weapons are ancient and tried and true designs popping up in the most remote, underdeveloped, material poor, last ditch, etc situations and places like underhive gangs and underdeveloped planets and the like.
So no, that "evidence" is just as worthless as my anecdotal statement
aside from the fact that most of the weapons ive listed are never described as using exotic materials for projectiles and in fact are represented as very similar to modern weapons by GW.
I am not claiming it to be a fact though as I understand that we don't have any solid information about it, a good example is bolt rounds, .75 caliber and yet can be stopped by guard flak armour that looks similar to modern body armour
caliber alone doesnt tell us squat about its ability to defeat armor. In fact, what you generally want to defeat armor is a small buller going very fast, concentrating a lot of force over a small surface area. A 7.62mm Tokarev round will sail through a Level IIIA vest like butter, but that same vest will stop a larger and more powerful 9x19mm round every time. There's a video on Youtube (by Iraqveteran8888, a ridiculous gun channel) where they shoot an actual cannon at a modern body armor vest and it doesnt penetrate (though youd still be dead from the kinetic impact ).
More to the point, however, a bolter rounds killing power in this instance comes from the explosive, not the size of the shell, which something like Flak armor could be effective against if the shot were not dead on. A bolter round hitting the pillar 6" away from you might injure an unarmored person bad enough to pull them out of a fight or even kill if shrapnel found the right spot, but flak armor might save them. Blast concussion would probably kill on a direct hit no matter what.
So I suppose we get to my point or lack of one anyway, we don't know what sci fi space wizardry goes into the creation of these weapons, they may seem primitive by modern standards but still be eons ahead of us in every way,
So much of 40k is primitive however. Thats part of the setting. They have starships that turn gun turrets by having chain gangs of slaves literally turning giant cogwheels. Even the technowizardry of the Eldar and Tau has nothing like a modern beyond-visual-range anti aircraft missile capable of engaging a target over a hundred miles away, or stuff like radar guided counterbattery artillery fire, AWACS, GPS guided artillery, hell even Night Vision equipment that is available to every vehicle and soldier in the US military is relatively rare in 40k. Laser guided ordnance thats been available for decades in the real world appears to be in use with only one faction in 40k. Again, a modern MBT can move at highway speeds over rough ground at night and hit another tank also moving at speed over a thousand meters away more than 90% of the time, find me a faction in 40k that can do that
like an arrow that can destroy a challenger, we look at it and laugh, it's so primitive and we have seen what arrows can do, but somehow this super magic space arrow took it out clean, because that's the story, that's the setting.
what you've just described is a modern APFSDS armor piercing round that we are very familiar with in the real world
So no, modern earth could not stand up to any 40k army, because space magic and wizards off camera!
which makes the discussion impossible to have though
Grumblewartz wrote: People who don't think a space marine chapter could conquer earth are vastly overestimating our will to resist and never account for the more esoteric weapons and tools at their disposal. Their fleet assets would annihilate the planet.
Hence why we're setting aside space assets as it makes the conversation pointless otherwise, and even in 40k they almost never use space assets the way people talk about them being used in this situation (makes for a much more boring tabletop ground based game )
Even without using the guns, they could use the teleportation bays to jump in, assassinate leaders.
How to they know who the leaders are, and where they are, and is there enough space to teleport Terminators in? (A teleporting Terminator squad is probably not going to fit into an office building or something like the Pentagon without rematerializing halfway into an office door, cubicle wall, a desk, etc)
This is something usually overlooked in 40k. In most stories, the enemy is magically known in full detail ahead of time, as is seemingly location information, orders of battle, etc without any reason why they'd actually know of of that.
Rinse and repeat. Or Psykers using mind control could just force world leaders to launch nukes at each other. Etc., etc.
how do the psykers know who these leaders are, get within range, and do their stuff? How are they going to prevent safeguards or advisors from stopping what would probably appear to be irrational and sudden insane actions? A Librarian cant just sit in orbit, divine exactlt who the enemy leaders are, and magically find exactly who they need and control them like a puppet from there...thats not been a thing in any 40k fluff ever as far as I can recall.
Ok my Quote foo isnt as good as yours but bare with me.
1: No they are not portrayed the same as modern weapons, other than they make a bang and stuff in front of them die, this is an assumption you are making based on information, not a fact, which isnt to say its a bad thing.
2: of course marines are still vunerable to overpressure, it just takes a hell of a lot more than standard humans due to the armour they are in, apparently it has some magic lining or some such that helps, and a direct mortor hit killed him, what was the size of the shell? 60mm? 120mm, 300mm? its still conjecture your working with here.
3: sorry your just flat wrong here, Orks are much stronger than humans, sadly not in the crapy D6 system but in all the RPG's they are much stronger, not quite as strong as a marine though, also the background Ork psy field absolutely does affect an Orks strength, its what makes them get bigger and stronger in a Waaaagh.
4: Yeah thats my take too, too little information, remember that just because its not mentioned, doesnt mean its not there, at least thats GW's point of view, hence centurians etc. its stupid but its tried and tested GW.
5: again just because its looks the same and sounds the same, doesnt mean its the same, thats an assumption.
6: all that blah blah, this is GW were talking about remember, they dont know gak about balistics and penetration, they have bolt rounds going through power armour and yet its stopped by flak armour, but I agree that blast concussion and shrapnel from that fully auto grenade launcher would be the biggest killer.
7: assumptions and more assumptions, every faction is capable of all of what you have said in the fluff, the Taros campaign had tau engaging from at least a K to stay out of the way of the standard russ range, but the Vanquisher could hit back, so there is that example, every marine has NVG, every marine tank, every tau battlesuit and infantry soldier they also have target designation systems, so do marines and guard, how else do you think that HK missile has unlimited range, its funny bit this game plays very differently to how its portrayed, the TT ranges are not accurate and should be utterly ignored.
8: no, its an arrow fired from a bow, but a magic arrow!!!!!!!!! lol
9: and thats basically my point, 40k doesnt have enough detail to make these comparisons and pass them off as fact, so dont do it
BTW to get all our info all any race would need to do is log into our internet, but if there is a password... we will be fine.
2017/11/29 23:04:19
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Auto weapons are noted in rogue trader and the 2nd ed background stuff as being equivalent to modern day military weapons except using caseless ammo. The Necromunda auto 's for Esher were AKs. It's impossible to quote fact as this is all fictional, but there are references abounding on the equivalence of weapon effectiveness.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also just remembered that Rogue Trader also had black powder weapons included at S2 I think, so S3 for modern firearms sounds about right.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/29 23:07:35
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Flinty wrote: Auto weapons are noted in rogue trader and the 2nd ed background stuff as being equivalent to modern day military weapons except using caseless ammo. The Necromunda auto 's for Esher were AKs. It's impossible to quote fact as this is all fictional, but there are references abounding on the equivalence of weapon effectiveness.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also just remembered that Rogue Trader also had black powder weapons included at S2 I think, so S3 for modern firearms sounds about right.
well thats been retconned since they clearly dont use caseless ammunition lol, some might do but not a single model I have seen does, they always have little ammo links and spent ammo on the floor, like bolters, they are supposed to be caseless too, but clearly are not (models)
2017/11/30 07:53:58
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
It's never been explicitly reconnect, so some autoweapon's will still be caaseless. But that's irrelevant as the strength characteristic system has never been changed and auto weapons have always had the same strength as lasguns.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Yeah my understanding is that autoguns translate pretty much to present-day assault rifles, and are roughly equivalent to lasguns in stopping power.
For me, I tend to look to the crunch over narrative-based novels and such for hard comparisons between weapon potency. While you have the limits of a D6 system and game balance to wade through, it's a more reliable measure than BL novels where a lasgun's power is directly proportional to the plot-significance of the shot.
So, as both Lasguns and Autoguns are S3, they're both roughly comparable, at least in the limitations of a base-10 strength system.
Wasn’t there rules for Eldar Craftworlds in BFG? A little off topic but kinda relevant if you squint from far away and tilt your head...
Craft worlds have to fight in someone’s head fluff. And that’s the beauty of 40k your mind is your limitation. If you want a craft world to assault a planet why not! Realistically we would likely die though, if a whole craftworld invaded even a minor one, hundreds of millions of far technological superior space elves vs earth.... Elves win.
2017/11/30 20:55:36
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Flinty wrote: It's never been explicitly reconnect, so some autoweapon's will still be caaseless. But that's irrelevant as the strength characteristic system has never been changed and auto weapons have always had the same strength as lasguns.
In the RPGs, there was ammo variety for autoguns, some of which made them hit harder than lasguns (HE ammo turns the autogun into a poor man's bolter, to name an example). But yeah, the basic ammo for autoguns is on par with lasguns.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ynneadwraith wrote: Yeah my understanding is that autoguns translate pretty much to present-day assault rifles, and are roughly equivalent to lasguns in stopping power.
For me, I tend to look to the crunch over narrative-based novels and such for hard comparisons between weapon potency. While you have the limits of a D6 system and game balance to wade through, it's a more reliable measure than BL novels where a lasgun's power is directly proportional to the plot-significance of the shot.
So, as both Lasguns and Autoguns are S3, they're both roughly comparable, at least in the limitations of a base-10 strength system.
They are similar to modern military firearms, enough that many assume that they are just modern firearm analogues that use caseless ammo. But autoguns are actually more advanced (but still simple compared to lasguns).
Modern, real-world firearms would be considered "stubbers" or "stubguns" in 40k.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/30 20:58:50
Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k
2017/11/30 21:02:35
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
One the other hand, lasguns are usually described in novels as dismembering humans, blowing up limbs, melting faces. Which is more than what you would get from most modern firearms.
In addition, thermal weaponry has different implications than kinetic one and will interact differently to targets (for example, lasers should have terrible penetration, and will require greater energy to inflict similar damage).
And the fact that lasguns also have the ability to regulate their firepower doesn't help.
2017/11/30 21:53:29
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Tyran wrote: One the other hand, lasguns are usually described in novels as dismembering humans, blowing up limbs, melting faces. Which is more than what you would get from most modern firearms.
Most modern firearms are developed to shoot at relatively unarmored humans and/or unarmored beasts. If we found ourselves having to shoot at armored gorillas, we would be using different weaponry.
A shotgun would have poor penetration against an armored target, and would require its operator to get into the optimum range for most of a Space Marine's weapons. Something like an M107 would probably do the trick a bit more efficiently and safely, but indirect fire support would be best.
2017/11/30 22:45:31
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Tyran wrote: One the other hand, lasguns are usually described in novels as dismembering humans, blowing up limbs, melting faces. Which is more than what you would get from most modern firearms.
Most modern firearms are developed to shoot at relatively unarmored humans and/or unarmored beasts. If we found ourselves having to shoot at armored gorillas, we would be using different weaponry.
For example:
Yeah, that's an machine shotgun!
To go with Lucifarian, yeah, a shotgun is a terrible choice against armored targets. A modern 2A vest will stop buck, and slugs don't go far or fast. Up close they'll bring more energy than a service rifle, but unless you're using a steel slug, you're going to have poor terminal performance against even modern III type body armors.
Luciferian wrote: A shotgun would have poor penetration against an armored target, and would require its operator to get into the optimum range for most of a Space Marine's weapons. Something like an M107 would probably do the trick a bit more efficiently and safely, but indirect fire support would be best.
If that shotgun is loaded with slugs, or saboted with DU cores, it's going to do (comparatively) very well against armored targets, such as a SM who managed to get in close. Given that a fair number of SMs have Jump Packs, having a close-in solution like the Pancor Jackhammer is a good idea.
And it's not like we lack AMRs & ATRs to comfortably deal with SMs at range.
But yes, a M107 would be a good choice.
Notionally, this is in the context of where we've gotten past initial contact and understand what we're up against. We've seen 5.56 or 7.62 ball ammo, and typical of SM tactics of mindlessly charging into blackpowder range, so we would recognize heavier weapons would be generally required along with very heavy close-in weapons like shotguns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/01 00:46:57
Any army that brings spaceships pretty much automatically wins. Almost every faction has orbital bombardment capability and Earth has basically zero means of clearing orbit of hostiles. So the opening engagement of any invasion would be to destroy any military bases/vehicles visible from orbit. Following that, you broadcast surrender orders or continue bombarding stuff you don't like.
Tactics change for some races, but the Tyranids invade in sufficient force to overwhelm any world that's not a fortress planet to begin with (we are not one of these).
And the arguments about tabletop ranges isn't really valid - the fluff isn't the rules.
Luciferian wrote: A shotgun would have poor penetration against an armored target, and would require its operator to get into the optimum range for most of a Space Marine's weapons. Something like an M107 would probably do the trick a bit more efficiently and safely, but indirect fire support would be best.
If that shotgun is loaded with slugs, or saboted with DU cores, it's going to do (comparatively) very well against armored targets, such as a SM who managed to get in close. Given that a fair number of SMs have Jump Packs, having a close-in solution like the Pancor Jackhammer is a good idea.
And it's not like we lack AMRs & ATRs to comfortably deal with SMs at range.
But yes, a M107 would be a good choice.
Notionally, this is in the context of where we've gotten past initial contact and understand what we're up against. We've seen 5.56 or 7.62 ball ammo, and typical of SM tactics of mindlessly charging into blackpowder range, so we would recognize heavier weapons would be generally required along with very heavy close-in weapons like shotguns.
If shotguns had the power to penetrate power armor, it would rip off the arm of the poor guy firing it.
We don't have handheld weapons that could hope to penetrate power armor, because recoil and weight are an issue to humans.
But that's why we have airstrikes and artillery, although we would need direct hits.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/01 03:44:52
2017/12/01 03:50:39
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
IandI wrote: In order to make it even remotely fair, assume the 40k faction cannot just obliterate us all from space. Their fleet assets can deliver ground troops and equipment only. The 40k faction does have access to all the inter atmosphere aircraft and vehicles a force of their size would normally have plus a few superheavies.
What's your take dakka?
With your parameters I actually feel sorry for those opponents - they are going to learn what real war is from the folks who invented it. The surviving Orks and Nids might be saved by a Facebook campaign. The rest? Sorry about your luck.
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
2017/12/01 04:01:20
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
IandI wrote: In order to make it even remotely fair, assume the 40k faction cannot just obliterate us all from space. Their fleet assets can deliver ground troops and equipment only. The 40k faction does have access to all the inter atmosphere aircraft and vehicles a force of their size would normally have plus a few superheavies.
What's your take dakka?
With your parameters I actually feel sorry for those opponents - they are going to learn what real war is from the folks who invented it. The surviving Orks and Nids might be saved by a Facebook campaign. The rest? Sorry about your luck.
I'm interested in how you imagine we could defeat Tyranids, whose basic strategy is to flood the planet with a few billion gants as first wave while also poisoning the planet.
2017/12/01 04:06:51
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Luciferian wrote: A shotgun would have poor penetration against an armored target, and would require its operator to get into the optimum range for most of a Space Marine's weapons. Something like an M107 would probably do the trick a bit more efficiently and safely, but indirect fire support would be best.
If that shotgun is loaded with slugs, or saboted with DU cores, it's going to do (comparatively) very well against armored targets, such as a SM who managed to get in close. Given that a fair number of SMs have Jump Packs, having a close-in solution like the Pancor Jackhammer is a good idea.
And it's not like we lack AMRs & ATRs to comfortably deal with SMs at range.
But yes, a M107 would be a good choice.
Notionally, this is in the context of where we've gotten past initial contact and understand what we're up against. We've seen 5.56 or 7.62 ball ammo, and typical of SM tactics of mindlessly charging into blackpowder range, so we would recognize heavier weapons would be generally required along with very heavy close-in weapons like shotguns.
If shotguns had the power to penetrate power armor, it would rip off the arm of the poor guy firing it.
We don't have handheld weapons that could hope to penetrate power armor, because recoil and weight are an issue to humans.
That is flatly untrue. The force experienced by the firer is spread out over a larger area over a longer period of time, whereas the target receives a concentrated strike in an instant.
Is a BAR, 0.50 sniper rifle or AMR considered a handheld weapon? What about an ATR?
Luciferian wrote: A shotgun would have poor penetration against an armored target, and would require its operator to get into the optimum range for most of a Space Marine's weapons. Something like an M107 would probably do the trick a bit more efficiently and safely, but indirect fire support would be best.
If that shotgun is loaded with slugs, or saboted with DU cores, it's going to do (comparatively) very well against armored targets, such as a SM who managed to get in close. Given that a fair number of SMs have Jump Packs, having a close-in solution like the Pancor Jackhammer is a good idea.
And it's not like we lack AMRs & ATRs to comfortably deal with SMs at range.
But yes, a M107 would be a good choice.
Notionally, this is in the context of where we've gotten past initial contact and understand what we're up against. We've seen 5.56 or 7.62 ball ammo, and typical of SM tactics of mindlessly charging into blackpowder range, so we would recognize heavier weapons would be generally required along with very heavy close-in weapons like shotguns.
If shotguns had the power to penetrate power armor, it would rip off the arm of the poor guy firing it.
We don't have handheld weapons that could hope to penetrate power armor, because recoil and weight are an issue to humans.
That is flatly untrue. The force experienced by the firer is spread out over a larger area over a longer period of time, whereas the target receives a concentrated strike in an instant.
Is a BAR, 0.50 sniper rifle or AMR considered a handheld weapon? What about an ATR?
You need a tripod or a surface to support it to use those with any degree of success, and I'm doubtful they would penetrate power armor, as bolters are considerably larger weapons and those still need sustained fire to penetrate it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/01 04:21:13
2017/12/01 04:25:43
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
IandI wrote: In order to make it even remotely fair, assume the 40k faction cannot just obliterate us all from space. Their fleet assets can deliver ground troops and equipment only. The 40k faction does have access to all the inter atmosphere aircraft and vehicles a force of their size would normally have plus a few superheavies.
What's your take dakka?
With your parameters I actually feel sorry for those opponents - they are going to learn what real war is from the folks who invented it. The surviving Orks and Nids might be saved by a Facebook campaign. The rest? Sorry about your luck.
I'm interested in how you imagine we could defeat Tyranids, whose basic strategy is to flood the planet with a few billion gants as first wave while also poisoning the planet.
We have guns and weapons that do really well against "hordes."
As an aside, we don't need help if the aim is to actually destroy the world. We are fully capable of doing that without assistance.
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
2017/12/01 04:39:43
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Luciferian wrote: A shotgun would have poor penetration against an armored target, and would require its operator to get into the optimum range for most of a Space Marine's weapons. Something like an M107 would probably do the trick a bit more efficiently and safely, but indirect fire support would be best.
If that shotgun is loaded with slugs, or saboted with DU cores, it's going to do (comparatively) very well against armored targets, such as a SM who managed to get in close. Given that a fair number of SMs have Jump Packs, having a close-in solution like the Pancor Jackhammer is a good idea.
And it's not like we lack AMRs & ATRs to comfortably deal with SMs at range.
But yes, a M107 would be a good choice.
Notionally, this is in the context of where we've gotten past initial contact and understand what we're up against. We've seen 5.56 or 7.62 ball ammo, and typical of SM tactics of mindlessly charging into blackpowder range, so we would recognize heavier weapons would be generally required along with very heavy close-in weapons like shotguns.
If shotguns had the power to penetrate power armor, it would rip off the arm of the poor guy firing it.
We don't have handheld weapons that could hope to penetrate power armor, because recoil and weight are an issue to humans.
That is flatly untrue. The force experienced by the firer is spread out over a larger area over a longer period of time, whereas the target receives a concentrated strike in an instant.
Is a BAR, 0.50 sniper rifle or AMR considered a handheld weapon? What about an ATR?
You need a tripod or a surface to support it to use those with any degree of success, and I'm doubtful they would penetrate power armor, as bolters are considerably larger weapons and those still need sustained fire to penetrate it.
40k military technology appears to be comparable to late-WW1 Earth technology, and their firearms are comparable to early Renaissance technology. SM power armor is probably only mild steel, which is why a standard Earth shotgun fitted with a "krak" slug would have good odds against it.
John Prins wrote:Any army that brings spaceships pretty much automatically wins. Almost every faction has orbital bombardment capability and Earth has basically zero means of clearing orbit of hostiles.
We have missiles that can get there pretty readily.
We would win. Pretty easily. Just look how short ranged all their weapons are. Even the Space Marines and hordes of Tyranids would get slaughtered while they were running up to try and engage people in close combat.
2017/12/01 21:30:12
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Albino Squirrel wrote: We would win. Pretty easily. Just look how short ranged all their weapons are. Even the Space Marines and hordes of Tyranids would get slaughtered while they were running up to try and engage people in close combat.
The problem with Tyranids is you run out of bullets before they run out of bodies. Termagants for example are described as being expended on purpose to exhaust the enemy's ammunition.
2017/12/01 21:53:57
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Flinty wrote: Auto weapons are noted in rogue trader and the 2nd ed background stuff as being equivalent to modern day military weapons except using caseless ammo. The Necromunda auto 's for Esher were AKs. It's impossible to quote fact as this is all fictional, but there are references abounding on the equivalence of weapon effectiveness.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also just remembered that Rogue Trader also had black powder weapons included at S2 I think, so S3 for modern firearms sounds about right.
well thats been retconned since they clearly dont use caseless ammunition lol, some might do but not a single model I have seen does, they always have little ammo links and spent ammo on the floor, like bolters, they are supposed to be caseless too, but clearly are not (models)
You might be thinking of heavy stubbers, which are basically HMGs in SPHESS. Heavy stubbers do use metallic cased ammo.
Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k
2017/12/01 23:25:33
Subject: Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by a 40k Faction?
Albino Squirrel wrote: We would win. Pretty easily. Just look how short ranged all their weapons are. Even the Space Marines and hordes of Tyranids would get slaughtered while they were running up to try and engage people in close combat.
Space Marines are a gimme - their weapons are blackpowder and their armor is mild steel. And there's only 1,000 of them. As long as you don't have to fight them 1:1 in HtH, the SMs auto-lose.
Tyranids are an auto-loss, as one bug gets into the world, and it's game over for the entire world. Same with the fungus men. Auto-loss.
But Space Marines are a Worf army that only sounds scary but gets curbstomped without any trouble.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
