Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius

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**Bremon**

I dislike spending too many points on characters. Sanguinor isn’t a bad option though after his points drop; you pay a slight premium to guarantee “Unleash Rage” that you can leverage into buffing multiple units, and you get a CC monster, and all you lose is Smite and a deny taking into account what a Librarians usual role for me is.

The SGA warlord I generally run with the Deny trait. Sometimes the fearless aura to help protect a fat blob of SG from morale. I’m going to try running a standard SG as warlord soon though and see if I miss the trait compared to the guaranteed rerolls.

I experimented with auto bolt rifles but almost always miss the extr range and the AP of the standard version, and paying a point for the assault version is a slap in the face.

The relic banner is easily our best relic though. It adds a lot of survivability. The jump pack is usually worth paying an extra CP for though.

**Martel732**

Sanguinor is great for wiping out enemy characters as well. Fall back and charge is nice on him.

**p5freak**

Sanguinor sucks compared to mephiston.

**lash92**

Sure Mephiston is better in CQC than Sanguinor.
But you get a guaranteed Unleash Rage, which can not be banned. Also you don't have to rely on a power for mobility and have a 4++.

Problem is I only have 3 HQ slots to work with, because I'm souping BA together with my AdMech.
So Captain Smash is fixed, as is Corbulo or a regulary Sanguinary Priest for my Intercessor block. So third place is Mephiston vs Sanguinor.
Mephiston would give me some psychic defense, while Sanguinor would be the better buffer.

**p5freak**

lash92 wrote:
Sure Mephiston is better in CQC than Sanguinor.
But you get a guaranteed Unleash Rage, which can not be banned. Also you don't have to rely on a power for mobility and have a 4++.

If the sanguinor fails his charge you get nothing. You would have to conga chain your intercessors back to him, reducing his buff.

**lash92**

With 32mm bases you can position your units so that you don't lose a single guy attacking while still being in the 6" bubble.

**Spado**

Hello,
I adjusted the list a little bit: I'd appreciate your precious feedback.

Spoiler:

Cheers,

Spado

**Bremon**

p5freak wrote:
Sanguinor sucks compared to mephiston.

Mephiston is swingy as hell in a game that already has way too much dice rolling to begin with. He can be a demigod or he can be trash. There is value in guaranteed buffs.

p5freak wrote:
lash92 wrote:
Sure Mephiston is better in CQC than Sanguinor.
But you get a guaranteed Unleash Rage, which can not be banned. Also you don't have to rely on a power for mobility and have a 4++.

If the sanguinor fails his charge you get nothing. You would have to conga chain your intercessors back to him, reducing his buff.

If a conga line involves a model in CC and a model within an inch of said model so it’s able to attack in CC as well...sure, you have to conga line.

**Martel732**

Sanguinor no longer sucks compared to mephiston. 3 hqs is a bit rough. Maybe dump the priest and capt smash to experinent.

**lash92**

I don't know about Captain Smash, he is just such a beast. Maybe dropping the Priest / Corbulo for Mephiston.
I would lose the 1+ S and healing / revive plus Veritas Vitae if I take a regular Priest.
On the other hand, some psychic would be nice.

But like Bremon said, Mephiston is just so fething swingy...

**Martel732**

Capt smash is not useful in several matchups, imo. Hes not mandatory.

**Bremon**

Flying restricted to movement phase really destroyed some of our toolbox, and the homing missile aspect of Captain Smash took a huge nerf.

**Martel732**

He also suffers vs 4++ melee invulns. Or better. I'm using him more and more as a sheriff.

**Bremon**

4++ melee invulns definitely hurt his efficiency in a bad way. In those cases you’re better sending a large number of SG. Even the D3 damage of SG can disappoint.

**Martel732**

I send dakka after 4++. Tarpits are bad.

**Bremon**

Not many things have a 4++ that 30 SG attacks won’t take care of.

**Martel732**

Most of my lists don't have sg, though. Only specialty lists.

**Bremon**

I take them every time. Love the models despite the kit being crap and it’s one of the few things we have that I don’t wonder “why doesn’t everyone else have access to this too?”

**Martel732**

I dont think theres any unit I use every time.

**soomemafia**

Cheers guys! Coming back after a year so I don't have much clue about the current meta.

I might read through the 60 pages of this thread eventually, but it will take time so I have a couple of questions.

1) is a budget version of Slamguinius worth it?
Playing him with a relic blade and jump pack comes in at about 100 points.

2) Troops, it's always about the Troops, isn't it? I've seen a lot of lists just going with three five man Scout Squads.
Any use for Tacticals? What's the optimal way?

3) When the 8th arrived it seemed to me like there would be no use in running a Baal Predator when you could simply take Razorbacks with Assault Cannons.
Has this changed? Any opinions on it?

And also, have there been any tournament-tier BA lists that haven't run 6+ Stormravens ;D

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, an additional question.

Librarians still worth it? I would assume that Unleash Rage and Shield of Sanguinius are the top choices?

**p5freak**

1) is a budget version of Slamguinius worth it?
Playing him with a relic blade and jump pack comes in at about 100 points.

If you use him as an infantry killer, yes. Otherwise go PF. Its also 9 pts. has S*2 but -1 to hit.

2) Troops, it's always about the Troops, isn't it? I've seen a lot of lists just going with three five man Scout Squads.
Any use for Tacticals? What's the optimal way?

Tacticals are meh. If you have a captain nearby you could go with combiplasma and plasmagun. Otherwise go with the loyal 32, or three scout units with knives or boltguns, if you want pure BA.

3) When the 8th arrived it seemed to me like there would be no use in running a Baal Predator when you could simply take Razorbacks with Assault Cannons.
Has this changed? Any opinions on it?

Nothing changed, baal preds are still meh. Use razorbacks with twin AC instead.

Librarians still worth it? I would assume that Unleash Rage and Shield of Sanguinius are the top choices?

Depends. Unleash rage is ok when you have a big CC unit nearby. Otherwise its quickening and wings of sanguinius, which is great with the libby dread. Shield of sanguinius used to be 4+, now is 5+. I dont use it. I dont even use a regular librarian. Its mephiston and/or the libby dread. Mephiston doesnt need the shield, because he already has a 2+ sv, AP-3 brings him to 5+, which is the same as the shield. The dread is harder to wound with T7.

**Bremon**

soomemafia wrote:
Cheers guys! Coming back after a year so I don't have much clue about the current meta.

I might read through the 60 pages of this thread eventually, but it will take time so I have a couple of questions.

1) is a budget version of Slamguinius worth it?
Playing him with a relic blade and jump pack comes in at about 100 points.

2) Troops, it's always about the Troops, isn't it? I've seen a lot of lists just going with three five man Scout Squads.
Any use for Tacticals? What's the optimal way?

3) When the 8th arrived it seemed to me like there would be no use in running a Baal Predator when you could simply take Razorbacks with Assault Cannons.
Has this changed? Any opinions on it?

And also, have there been any tournament-tier BA lists that haven't run 6+ Stormravens ;D

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, an additional question.

Librarians still worth it? I would assume that Unleash Rage and Shield of Sanguinius are the top choices?

1)Relic blades are objectively bad. Power fist is a better choice imo.
2)Tacs are awful and worse after CA. Loyal 32 for soup CP, or Intercessors for reasonable objective holders, or Scouts for cheap troop tax and area denial.
3)my precious Baal Preds are piss poor and Razorbacks are easily the superior option.
4)Shield of Sanguinius is crap at 5+++. Unleash Rage is good but Sanguinor guarantees the +1 and can give it to multiple units simultaneously. Only good librarian at this point is Meph or Dread with Quickening and Wings imo.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
I dont think theres any unit I use every time.

IG has you picking your models up at the end of turn two every time anyway though, right? I’d imagine I’d try a new list every time in that case as well, if not just for the variety of units on the table for 2 turns.

Kidding of course, but our book isn’t in a great place so at this point I tend to just run my favourite stuff since I don’t care to spend money on soup or time painting hideous models like Scouts or IG.

**Martel732**

I don't like being predictable. Also, sg are very weak vs a lot of meta choices. Sometimes they can be disastrous for the though.

Unleash rage does stack with sanguinor.

**Bremon**

It does stack, but is another character in an army that already seems to revolve around Death Stars. At what point is it too many eggs in one basket? 320 SG plus some inferno pistols, plus 70ish for SGA, 150 for Sanguinor, 120 for a librarian.

**Martel732**

It doesn't have to go on SG. It can go on anything. Just a thought.

**lash92**

Are you guys making any use of Psykers post CA?
As pointed out Mephiston is swingy as hell, which also applies to a Librarian Dreadnough (even more so with just 3 attacks base imo).
On the other hand having a successfull deny or unleash rage can be such a game changer. So I was thinking about adding a JP Librarian. But he is just 24 / 40 points cheaper than a Librarian dreadnought, mhh...

**fatbudda319**

What are people's thoughts on TLLC and CCW dreads now after the points drop? Can either waddle up the field with 2 lascannon shots a turn or sit with a castle offering decent counter charge potential (4 S12 Ap-3 flat 3 damage) all for 132 points.

Probably not going to rock the super competitive world but then if you're playing blood angels you already know that.

**Bremon**

Martel732 wrote:
It doesn't have to go on SG. It can go on anything. Just a thought.

What are the most valuable targets for it though? Taking a ten man DC unit from 40 attacks to 50? A captain +1 Attack? There aren’t many suitable targets because we tend to MSU heavily.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

lash92 wrote:
Are you guys making any use of Psykers post CA?
As pointed out Mephiston is swingy as hell, which also applies to a Librarian Dreadnough (even more so with just 3 attacks base imo).
On the other hand having a successfull deny or unleash rage can be such a game changer. So I was thinking about adding a JP Librarian. But he is just 24 / 40 points cheaper than a Librarian dreadnought, mhh...

Deny doesn’t tend to do much for me, and I generally use the Deny warlord trait. Once I start using an SG warlord maybe a librarian will be of more value but a JP librarian is a pretty poor use of points imo. One smite, deny and possibly Unleash Rage isn’t really worth it when the platform it’s comig from hits like a wet blanket against most things you’d like to kill with him. Libby dread is a whole different ball game.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

fatbudda319 wrote:
What are people's thoughts on TLLC and CCW dreads now after the points drop? Can either waddle up the field with 2 lascannon shots a turn or sit with a castle offering decent counter charge potential (4 S12 Ap-3 flat 3 damage) all for 132 points.

Probably not going to rock the super competitive world but then if you're playing blood angels you already know that.

If we had venerable dreads (wtf do Furioso not hit on 2+?) then maybe you’d have a case but I think they’re pretty terrible gun platforms. They blow up too quickly, and not enough dakka. Better off advancing something as quickly as possible, or a platform like a Razorback that is cheaper and more durable. Walking a TL Las hitting on 4+ every turn doesn’t accomplish a whole lot imo.

**lash92**

You like / use the Libby Dread? Or no Psykers at all?

**Bremon**

I often run no psyker at all. I’ll likely play the Librarian dread again. The character keyword turns him into a nice bully to help your infantry out. He can also once in a long while pull off both spells he needs to make himself a useful melee brute.