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How do people feel about a 10 man DC squad with nothing but Bolters and Chainswords? I am considering throwing in 2 Power Swords to the unit... But anything that NEEDS to die in a game is generally taken care of by my JP Librarian or Mephiston so it seems kind of a waste.

I would honestly rather put the 8 points into buying another Storm Bolter for my 3 Rhinos and 1 for my Razorback.

Joey86 wrote:
Hope you have some Stormraven. I tried to field 3 dcDreadnoughts with some dc and a libbiDreadnought. 2 of the dcnoughts were killed round one, the 3rd is way to slow to get near a combat in the first two rounds.

The Libbinought did good job getting deep in the enemy deployzone round one. Would have been nice if he would have goten quickening through. DC makes good damage and dies good. Well its there Fluff

I agree. Dreads are pretty easy to pop if they don't have a delivery system. I killed 3 of 4 of an opponents turn 1 with my DW/RW army in a tournament a couple weekends ago. This is why the libby dread is so good, can't target him.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
How do people feel about a 10 man DC squad with nothing but Bolters and Chainswords? I am considering throwing in 2 Power Swords to the unit... But anything that NEEDS to die in a game is generally taken care of by my JP Librarian or Mephiston so it seems kind of a waste.

I would honestly rather put the 8 points into buying another Storm Bolter for my 3 Rhinos and 1 for my Razorback.

No reason not to toss in a few power weapons. Swords or axes. I do like the 2+ to wound with axes for 1 extra point though...

Wandering Dark Angel here, but my son has succumbed to the Red Thirst and is playing Flesh Tearers (he usually played Orks). His list came up hard against two Chaos players yesterday. I was wondering if the group can offer some comments on his list:

Battalion Detachment:
HQ - Chaplain with Jump Pack, Captain
Troops - Five Man, Scout Squad, Five Man Tactical Squad, Five Man Tactical Squad
Elites - Vanguard Vets with Jump Packs, tooled with Power Fists and Power Swords
Heavy Support - Devastator Squad (Lascannon, Missile, Plasma Cannon, Heavy Bolter)

Vanguard Detachment:
HQ - Gabriel Seth (the point of the army for him), Sanguinary Priest;
Elites - Death Company (8 man with variety of weapons), Terminator Squad (5 man), Dreadnought
Flyer - Stormraven (Twin Assault Cannon, Twin Multimelta, Hurricane Bolters, Stormstrike Missiles)

He faced tournament styled lists - one was all Noise Marines. I was engaged in my my own game so I missed most of the action. The main constraint is staying Flesh Tearers with Gabriel. The Stormraven has been great against my OPFOR Genestealers, but it fell pretty quick to some Noise Marines in game 1 and a Dreadnaught in Game 2. Its a huge points sink, but Seth needs a delivery system - maybe a Drop Pod?

Appreciate any insights and Happy New Year!

Yeah, in my opinion the problem with his list is lack of target saturation for the Stormraven. It being the only vehicle in the list means all your opponents anti-vehicle will just focus on it and blow it out of the sky.

Drop pod with seth would probably be better since its hundreds of points cheaper, gets Seth close to the action and allows you to add in 200+ more points to his list.

bobafett012 wrote:
I agree. Dreads are pretty easy to pop if they don't have a delivery system. I killed 3 of 4 of an opponents turn 1 with my DW/RW army in a tournament a couple weekends ago. This is why the libby dread is so good, can't target him.

If you want a durable dread use a contemptor. It has a 5+ invuln sv., 10 wounds, move 9", and hits on 2+. Even with 3 wounds left it still moves and hits like a regular dread. There are more variants from FW. If you want an absolute beast of a dread use the leviathan. Its 308-366 pts., but its worth every point.

sorry if this has already been done but has anyone ran the numbers on our codex yet? like a PPD or wound output vs various units. interested to see the comparison between sang guard and DC..

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

Battalion Detachment:
HQ - Chaplain with Jump Pack, Captain
Troops - Five Man, Scout Squad, Five Man Tactical Squad, Five Man Tactical Squad
Elites - Vanguard Vets with Jump Packs, tooled with Power Fists and Power Swords
Heavy Support - Devastator Squad (Lascannon, Missile, Plasma Cannon, Heavy Bolter)

Vanguard Detachment:
HQ - Gabriel Seth (the point of the army for him), Sanguinary Priest;
Elites - Death Company (8 man with variety of weapons), Terminator Squad (5 man), Dreadnought
Flyer - Stormraven (Twin Assault Cannon, Twin Multimelta, Hurricane Bolters, Stormstrike Missiles)

Not a fan of vanguard and terminators. I would add more DC models instead of the vanguard. And sang guards instead of termis. To me DC and sang guard are the best CC units for BA. I also suggest 1 or 2 rhinos/razorbacks to reduce deployment count, to have a better chance at getting first turn.

Vanguards with storm shields are actually very useful.

Martel732 wrote:
Vanguards with storm shields are actually very useful.

Depends on your target. Against AP0 weapons SS are useless. Against AP weapons they are excellent.

We've got lots of units good against AP 0. Not very many against high AP.

Couple general questions:

Does using Lucifer Pattern Engines actually count as advancing? Upon rereading it, it says use it before advancing, and then never says it counts as advancing. At the end, it does say do not roll a die, which may imply advancing, but it's not clear...

Also, am I crazy, or have I just missed again and again that the wording of the banners each of our Ancients carry say that the abilities they grant effect units or models within 6" of Blood Angel Ancients (not just the banner bearer they happen to be near). Meaning, if I had all 3 different banner bearing Ancients on the field at once, the units in effect range of each banner would receive all 3 banner effects even if the Ancients were no where near one another. Am I reading that right?

 Voidwraith wrote:
Couple general questions:

Does using Lucifer Pattern Engines actually count as advancing? Upon rereading it, it says use it before advancing, and then never says it counts as advancing. At the end, it does say do not roll a die, which may imply advancing, but it's not clear...

Yes, LPE counts as advancing. Thats the way i read, and understand it. What i dont understand is why.

 Voidwraith wrote:

Also, am I crazy, or have I just missed again and again that the wording of the banners each of our Ancients carry say that the abilities they grant effect units or models within 6" of Blood Angel Ancients (not just the banner bearer they happen to be near). Meaning, if I had all 3 different banner bearing Ancients on the field at once, the units in effect range of each banner would receive all 3 banner effects even if the Ancients were no where near one another. Am I reading that right?

Yes, if one unit is within 6" of all three ancients it would receive all three banner effects.

p5freak wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:

Also, am I crazy, or have I just missed again and again that the wording of the banners each of our Ancients carry say that the abilities they grant effect units or models within 6" of Blood Angel Ancients (not just the banner bearer they happen to be near). Meaning, if I had all 3 different banner bearing Ancients on the field at once, the units in effect range of each banner would receive all 3 banner effects even if the Ancients were no where near one another. Am I reading that right?

Yes, if one unit is within 6" of all three ancients it would receive all three banner effects.

Thanks for answers.

Yes, I know that if a unit is with 6" of all 3 ancients it would receive all the banner effects. What I'm pointing out is it appears that the way the banner rules are worded, all 3 banner bearers could be in different corners of the battlefield and if, say, a tactical squad was within 6" of one, it'd receive all 3's banner abilities.

As i am reading in my German Codex.
You get +1 to your morale,. dont matter how many Ancients are around you.
Edit: At least 1


The TremiAncient and the Sanguinary Ancient Banner only work 6 inch arount that model, while the Company Ancient lets you do his buff around any BloodAngel Ancient.

 Voidwraith wrote:

p5freak wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:

Also, am I crazy, or have I just missed again and again that the wording of the banners each of our Ancients carry say that the abilities they grant effect units or models within 6" of Blood Angel Ancients (not just the banner bearer they happen to be near). Meaning, if I had all 3 different banner bearing Ancients on the field at once, the units in effect range of each banner would receive all 3 banner effects even if the Ancients were no where near one another. Am I reading that right?

Yes, if one unit is within 6" of all three ancients it would receive all three banner effects.

Thanks for answers.

Yes, I know that if a unit is with 6" of all 3 ancients it would receive all the banner effects. What I'm pointing out is it appears that the way the banner rules are worded, all 3 banner bearers could be in different corners of the battlefield and if, say, a tactical squad was within 6" of one, it'd receive all 3's banner abilities.

this is the first interpretation I’ve seen like this. To say this seems against the spirit of the rules and has no basis in “rules as intended” is putting it mildly. I’ll have to read my codex when I’m home from work to check “rules as written”, but again, I would think this isn’t possible.

Bremon wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:

p5freak wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:

Also, am I crazy, or have I just missed again and again that the wording of the banners each of our Ancients carry say that the abilities they grant effect units or models within 6" of Blood Angel Ancients (not just the banner bearer they happen to be near). Meaning, if I had all 3 different banner bearing Ancients on the field at once, the units in effect range of each banner would receive all 3 banner effects even if the Ancients were no where near one another. Am I reading that right?

Yes, if one unit is within 6" of all three ancients it would receive all three banner effects.

Thanks for answers.

Yes, I know that if a unit is with 6" of all 3 ancients it would receive all the banner effects. What I'm pointing out is it appears that the way the banner rules are worded, all 3 banner bearers could be in different corners of the battlefield and if, say, a tactical squad was within 6" of one, it'd receive all 3's banner abilities.

this is the first interpretation I’ve seen like this. To say this seems against the spirit of the rules and has no basis in “rules as intended” is putting it mildly. I’ll have to read my codex when I’m home from work to check “rules as written”, but again, I would think this isn’t possible.

FWIW, I have only ever ran one of the Ancients in any of my lists, so it's not as if I'm trying to break the game or anything. I was just re-reading the codex and the wording of the banner abilities caught me off guard. I also do not have my codex on me to give a direct quote, but please re-read those banner abilities to see what I'm talking about.

Also, this take doesn't apply to the Relic banner. It's not worded in a way that made me think it did anything other than effect models within 6" of the actual banner bearer.

Actually, i think you are right. RAW if you have the banner on the field, every ancient give the aura.

PandatheWarrior wrote:
Actually, i think you are right. RAW if you have the banner on the field, every ancient give the aura.

The Sanguinary Ancient starts with "Blood Angels units within 6" of any friendly Blood Angels Ancients add 1 to their Leadership." This is common to all the BA Ancients, so if you are within 6" you get the plus 1 - nothing special as they all have that anyway.

Where they differ is with their second ability. The Company and Primaris Ancients give the 4+ chance for an attack by a model destroyed within 6" of any friendly Blood Angels Ancients. The way it it written does indicate that you would also get this for being within 6" of the other two Ancients that lack this line just by having the Company or Primaris on the field. The Sangunary Ancient extra ability (reroll Wound rolls of 1) is only for units with a model within 6" of this model. The Terminator Ancient additional boon of rerolling hit rolls in th fight phase is also for units within 6" of this model.

So I read it as a mixed bag. In two cases they patch over (the last surge of strength), while in two they don't.

Cheers

I also checked. It seems like the way to use this would be to have say...the sanguinary ancient with relic banner with his SG buddies and some inceptors getting all the SG banner benefits, and then have a bland company ancient backfield with a firebase, and suddenly you have SG and inceptors firing off shots/attacks as they die in addition.

Interesting combo.

Another mistake is the combi-grav into sergent equipement wich you can take twice.

Hi all I'm looking for some advice on what to equip a squad of 5 jump VV and my 2nd squad of 5 SG with.

For the VV I'm thinking of options that others can't get like Lightning Claws and TH+/SS whilst avoiding chainswords/hand flamers(DC) and power fists/plasma pistol(SG). I'm looking for anyone's thought's on numbers and any special set-up's anyone really favour's. I'm tempted to just go inferno pistol and TH myself to give me some mobile big stuff killers although i do fancy some SS

As for the 2nd squad of SG I'm really tempted to just go all out with 5 PF+PP as it's only buttons to upgrade to PP from AB. Other squad is standard 5 ES+AB. I'm thinking now that maybe 4 PF+PP and 1 ES+AB and split them through the 2 squads might be a better idea. Or think of them as a 10 man unit and have 4 PF+AB and 6 ES+PP then the slightly more important fists won't get blown up before they strike and trim a few point's as well

I'm not set on any particular set-up with either unit. I just can't finalise it in my own mind and would greatly appreciate any and all advice.

Cheer's, K.

 Voidwraith wrote:

Bremon wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:

p5freak wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:

Also, am I crazy, or have I just missed again and again that the wording of the banners each of our Ancients carry say that the abilities they grant effect units or models within 6" of Blood Angel Ancients (not just the banner bearer they happen to be near). Meaning, if I had all 3 different banner bearing Ancients on the field at once, the units in effect range of each banner would receive all 3 banner effects even if the Ancients were no where near one another. Am I reading that right?

Yes, if one unit is within 6" of all three ancients it would receive all three banner effects.

Thanks for answers.

Yes, I know that if a unit is with 6" of all 3 ancients it would receive all the banner effects. What I'm pointing out is it appears that the way the banner rules are worded, all 3 banner bearers could be in different corners of the battlefield and if, say, a tactical squad was within 6" of one, it'd receive all 3's banner abilities.

this is the first interpretation I’ve seen like this. To say this seems against the spirit of the rules and has no basis in “rules as intended” is putting it mildly. I’ll have to read my codex when I’m home from work to check “rules as written”, but again, I would think this isn’t possible.

FWIW, I have only ever ran one of the Ancients in any of my lists, so it's not as if I'm trying to break the game or anything. I was just re-reading the codex and the wording of the banner abilities caught me off guard. I also do not have my codex on me to give a direct quote, but please re-read those banner abilities to see what I'm talking about.

Also, this take doesn't apply to the Relic banner. It's not worded in a way that made me think it did anything other than effect models within 6" of the actual banner bearer.

No worries about defending yourself, I’m sorry if I came across as accusatory. I do see what you mean though; the terminator and sanguinary Guard ancients specify being within 6” of them for their unique abilities, while the company and Primaris ancients spec “any ancient”. So RAW I’d say you’re right. When is our FAQ out? Lol. I’m really hoping our FAQ shows Lucifer Engines aren’t mostly useless.

Bremon wrote:
When is our FAQ out? Lol. I’m really hoping our FAQ shows Lucifer Engines aren’t mostly useless.

and brings the cost of our preds in line with the marine book as it seems like an error.

bobafett012 wrote:

Bremon wrote:
When is our FAQ out? Lol. I’m really hoping our FAQ shows Lucifer Engines aren’t mostly useless.

and brings the cost of our preds in line with the marine book as it seems like an error.

I am not holding my breath on either. LPE should just give a straight increase to movement at the cost of not being able to Advance that turn (who would anyway?!), but I could see GW being moronic as usual and think it is somehow this great bonus.

They need to give the Baal Predator a rule that lets it fire heavy weapons after advancing. Otherwise it will still be outclassed by Dakka Inceptors.

bobafett012 wrote:

Bremon wrote:
When is our FAQ out? Lol. I’m really hoping our FAQ shows Lucifer Engines aren’t mostly useless.

and brings the cost of our preds in line with the marine book as it seems like an error.

I completely agree with this sentiment.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:

Bremon wrote:
When is our FAQ out? Lol. I’m really hoping our FAQ shows Lucifer Engines aren’t mostly useless.

and brings the cost of our preds in line with the marine book as it seems like an error.

I am not holding my breath on either. LPE should just give a straight increase to movement at the cost of not being able to Advance that turn (who would anyway?!), but I could see GW being moronic as usual and think it is somehow this great bonus.

They need to give the Baal Predator a rule that lets it fire heavy weapons after advancing. Otherwise it will still be outclassed by Dakka Inceptors.

i agree LPE needs to be a movement bonus, or Baal Preds buffed. I also never made the comparison to inceptors before, which doesn’t favour the Baal Pred at all. Yikes. Fingers crossed that the FAQ clarifies Killshot for Baal Preds or my BP’s will be Razorbacks for the foreseeable future. So glad I magnetized lol.

I just want my tri-las/AC/LC preds to not cost 12 points more than all other marines for absolutely no reason what so ever.

Killshot will be allowed for Baal preds almost assuredly. ITC already does it and GW has it in print somewhere.

Thanks to bobba, Martel and p5Freak for the advice! He can borrow from the Rock to try some options out (Azrael is feeling indulgent). He does well with the Vanguard Vets (my old V2 Dark Angels Assault Marines), so we'll kitbash a Stormshield armed one for them. He's looking at either swapping the Terminators for a Predator to give some more firepower and something to draw fire, or dropping the Stormraven and adding a Drop Pod, Razorback and Rhino.

Cheers!

Martel732 wrote:
Killshot will be allowed for Baal preds almost assuredly. ITC already does it and GW has it in print somewhere.

That and if LPE is just a movement bonus would actually meant Baal Predators might be able to do their job. Too bad it cost 2 CP to do it(so does everything else we want to do...).

Brigades are possible with BA by using single heavy bolter attack bikes and 5-man reiver squads, though.