Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius

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**Xirax**

Ok,
after two more test games I finally beat that Death guard list of mine.

For the third game I altered the list even more to get more durability.

This was the winning list, I'll play one more game tonight, against myself though, but test game anyways.. To see if it really has potential.

List tailoring such way is a bit stupid because I have no idea how it fairs against other lists.

List and quick

Spoiler:

Still, don't really know what to take from all this regarding the tourney up ahead..

EDIT:

In the spoiler, there's a quick summary on one more test game..

If you guys know how DG is like, what things I need to focus on when opposing a necron silver tide, just focus units one at a time and try to DS those buffing characters T2 and forward?

**gkos**

Has anyone much experience with scout bikes, or bikes in general? I'm really liking them at the moment fast, tough and put out plenty of shots

I have yet to get to use their mortal wounds stratagem, but it looks fun.

**jcd386**

Scout bikes are great. Normal bikes quite so much, since the improved save isn't worth the price increase imo.

**Bremon**

Scout bikes are nice; very good at dakka. Normal bikes are great if you want to run a vanilla outrider detachment; Salamander bikes with meltas really leverage their rerolls nicely and can get into melta range in short order.

If you want plasma you’re better off with 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol in a BA assault squad, or Inceptors.

**Cephalobeard**

gkos wrote:
Has anyone much experience with scout bikes, or bikes in general? I'm really liking them at the moment fast, tough and put out plenty of shots

I have yet to get to use their mortal wounds stratagem, but it looks fun.

I use 3x3. Love them.

**Voidwraith**

Unsure if anyone else noticed this and posted it here, but there's been clarification from GW on units jumping around the board if they were deployed on the board turn 1.

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/2013246645662631/?type=3&theater

**gkos**

Voidwraith wrote:
Unsure if anyone else noticed this and posted it here, but there's been clarification from GW on units jumping around the board if they were deployed on the board turn 1.

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/2013246645662631/?type=3&theater

looks like that's cleared that up nicely

only a complete FAQ'er could argue against the use of stratagems to get into the other players DZ now.

**casvalremdeikun**

Well, I think I finally decided to make Captain Slamguinius. I am going to use the Blood Angels Chaplain as the base. Replace the crozius with a Thunder Hammer and the Inferno Pistol with a Storm Shield. Should work quite nicely. I haven't decided if I am going to paint him black or red. Probably red and paint the saltires black(I will almost always run him with Death Visions of Sanguinius, but I want to differentiate him from a Chaplain). Paint the wings white instead of red. In terms of how he is laid out, what is the best way? Obviously Angel's Wing. Warlord Trait seems to be between Artisan of War and and Gift of Foresight. Artisan makes him hit like a bus, but Foresight makes him even more survivable. Which is the better option?

Maybe I should do half red and half gold, with dark red muscle...

**p5freak**

I usually go for gift of foresight in combination with death visions of sanguinius to give him 5+++. Its great to do 4 damage, but if you fail to charge, fail to hit, fail to wound, the enemy makes its saves, its good to be tougher and live one more turn.

**casvalremdeikun**

p5freak wrote:
I usually go for gift of foresight in combination with death visions of sanguinius to give him 5+++. Its great to do 4 damage, but if you fail to charge, fail to hit, fail to wound, the enemy makes its saves, its good to be tougher and live one more turn.

That is kind of what I am thinking. 5+++ with a reroll on an already fairly survivable platform. And really, he is already going to wreck most things anyway dealing three wounds a pop.

Now, I am wondering if, with the 5+++ from Gift of Foresight, does he really need that 3++ on top of his existing 4++? Would a special pistol be worth it on him? Maybe a Combi weapon? I get that his job is to smash face and never die, but could adding more shooting be worth it? He does still have grenades and a bolt pistol, I guess.

**p5freak**

casvalremdeikun wrote:

Now, I am wondering if, with the 5+++ from Gift of Foresight, does he really need that 3++ on top of his existing 4++? Would a special pistol be worth it on him? Maybe a Combi weapon? I get that his job is to smash face and never die, but could adding more shooting be worth it? He does still have grenades and a bolt pistol, I guess.

Plenty of gear options, all with pros and cons, you have to decide yourself. My captn slammy usually is only CC and maximum toughness.

**Ordana**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
p5freak wrote:
I usually go for gift of foresight in combination with death visions of sanguinius to give him 5+++. Its great to do 4 damage, but if you fail to charge, fail to hit, fail to wound, the enemy makes its saves, its good to be tougher and live one more turn.
That is kind of what I am thinking. 5+++ with a reroll on an already fairly survivable platform. And really, he is already going to wreck most things anyway dealing three wounds a pop.

Now, I am wondering if, with the 5+++ from Gift of Foresight, does he really need that 3++ on top of his existing 4++? Would a special pistol be worth it on him? Maybe a Combi weapon? I get that his job is to smash face and never die, but could adding more shooting be worth it? He does still have grenades and a bolt pistol, I guess.

The captain is such a massive threat that the enemy HAS to deal with him asap. Forcing him to dedicate more and more firepower to do it is worth it. Hence the increased move to Gift of Foresight aswell.
the SS reduces failed saves by 33%. its pretty big.

**casvalremdeikun**

Ordana wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
p5freak wrote:
I usually go for gift of foresight in combination with death visions of sanguinius to give him 5+++. Its great to do 4 damage, but if you fail to charge, fail to hit, fail to wound, the enemy makes its saves, its good to be tougher and live one more turn.
That is kind of what I am thinking. 5+++ with a reroll on an already fairly survivable platform. And really, he is already going to wreck most things anyway dealing three wounds a pop.

Now, I am wondering if, with the 5+++ from Gift of Foresight, does he really need that 3++ on top of his existing 4++? Would a special pistol be worth it on him? Maybe a Combi weapon? I get that his job is to smash face and never die, but could adding more shooting be worth it? He does still have grenades and a bolt pistol, I guess.
The captain is such a massive threat that the enemy HAS to deal with him asap. Forcing him to dedicate more and more firepower to do it is worth it. Hence the increased move to Gift of Foresight aswell.
the SS reduces failed saves by 33%. its pretty big.

That is certainly true. Making him a good Distraction Carnifex on top of big threat is good. I am going to go Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer.

**gkos**

Blimey, I just got my backside handed to me on a platter by Necrons, how do you guys kill a doomsday ark?

Quantum Shielding negated my heavy firepower, Triarch Stalkers one shotted my libby dread and a squad of destroyers took my pred down to one wound in one round of firing.

**Voidwraith**

gkos wrote:
Blimey, I just got my backside handed to me on a platter by Necrons, how do you guys kill a doomsday ark?

Quantum Shielding negated my heavy firepower, Triarch Stalkers one shotted my libby dread and a squad of destroyers took my pred down to one wound in one round of firing.

Haven't faces one yet, but my new list has 2 Stalkers, which should be great against the quantum shielding (six 2 damage shots per stalker) and 3 predators for killshot potential. 2 of the predators will be predator autocannon with heavy bolter sponsons, which, again, is a bunch of shots that will do 2 damage (with killshot).

I figure this configuration will be good against most armies, as the FLY keyword is pretty common.

Also going Flesh Tearers for this list, so Gabriel Seth and a Lieutenant will be providing rerolls.

**gkos**

yes, I need to look at stalkers, Necrons have so many fly models with big guns it's depressing.

And lets not mention living metal.. I had a captain and LT but to be honest, after his first turn I had little to shoot back with. A pred on it's lowest tier is not much of a threat to anyone.. plus, when it blew up it took wounds of my HQ.

all in all, not a good day at the office for BA

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So come on, what are our serious combinations to include in a 2k battle against Necron?

This thread has been an argument about DS for a while, lets talk tactics about taking out Necrons without the Beta rules.

**Karhedron**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Warlord Trait seems to be between Artisan of War and and Gift of Foresight. Artisan makes him hit like a bus, but Foresight makes him even more survivable. Which is the better option?

It depends on who you are facing. Against a list with CC heavy hitters or bit monsters, Artisan of War works out better as the best defense Captain Smash can get is to make sure he kills whatever he is charging ASAP. Against shootier armies where you are confident of the kill, the problem is surviving the retaliatory shooting and this is where GoF comes in handy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gkos wrote:
Blimey, I just got my backside handed to me on a platter by Necrons, how do you guys kill a doomsday ark?

Quantum Shielding negated my heavy firepower, Triarch Stalkers one shotted my libby dread and a squad of destroyers took my pred down to one wound in one round of firing.

Overcharged plasma is probably the most effective answer to quantum shielding. Hellblasters or Inceptors probably have the best chance here. Alternatively just charge it with Death Company and drown it with weight of dice. Even with 14 wounds, it is only T6 with a 4+ save. Death Company will chew through it pretty quickly. Plus if it withdraws from combat, it will have to fire on its weaker profile since it moved.

Your Libby Dread is a Character, make full use of screening to protect it from shooting. Destroyers are nasty, there is no denying it. They don't have anything like quantum shielding though so actually make a pretty decent target for your anti-tank shooting or for Captain Smash.

**Covenant**

Why not choose the WL-trait from the rulebook for one additional attack after a Charge?

**Ordana**

Covenant wrote:
Why not choose the WL-trait from the rulebook for one additional attack after a Charge?

7 attacks (4+1+d3(2) doing 4 damage is 15 wounds against a vehicle (T7 3+)
8 attacks doing 3 damage is 13 wounds.

Against T6 4++ Artisan does 9 wounds. Extra attack does 7.8

If your going for a suicide run +1D is better then an extra attack.
Unless your charging something with 3 wounds or less. But thats not the captains main target.
Prob better against Necrons tho but a 5++ re-roll 1's still sounds better there then 1 more attack.

**Covenant**

I'm not realy good at getting those 5s

**Karhedron**

Covenant wrote:
I'm not realy good at getting those 5s

You're relationship with your dice is probably not something we can fix on this forum.

**casvalremdeikun**

Karhedron wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Warlord Trait seems to be between Artisan of War and and Gift of Foresight. Artisan makes him hit like a bus, but Foresight makes him even more survivable. Which is the better option?

It depends on who you are facing. Against a list with CC heavy hitters or bit monsters, Artisan of War works out better as the best defense Captain Smash can get is to make sure he kills whatever he is charging ASAP. Against shootier armies where you are confident of the kill, the problem is surviving the retaliatory shooting and this is where GoF comes in handy.

The good thing is that Warlord traits are decided at the start of the battle. So it isn't adjusting my list whatsoever. So I can change him up depending on what he is crashing into. I agree, GoF is much better for shooty armies. Artisan would be better for stuff with a lot of wounds. Smashing a Knight to pieces will be great!

**p5freak**

gkos wrote:
Blimey, I just got my backside handed to me on a platter by Necrons, how do you guys kill a doomsday ark?

Anything that has S7+ and damage 1-3. Captn slammy with TH, DC with TH/fists, SG with fists, stalkers with icarus stormcannons, dreads with autocannons, overcharged plasma, predators with predator autocannon, etc.

**Karhedron**

Ordana wrote:
Covenant wrote:
Why not choose the WL-trait from the rulebook for one additional attack after a Charge?
7 attacks (4+1+d3(2) doing 4 damage is 15 wounds against a vehicle (T7 3+)
8 attacks doing 3 damage is 13 wounds.

Against T6 4++ Artisan does 9 wounds. Extra attack does 7.8

If your going for a suicide run +1D is better then an extra attack.
Unless your charging something with 3 wounds or less. But thats not the captains main target.
Prob better against Necrons tho but a 5++ re-roll 1's still sounds better there then 1 more attack.

Also Artisan works on every round of combat whereas the +1A trait only applies on the turn you charge.

**casvalremdeikun**

I am thinking of adding a Relic Sicaran Battle Tank to my army. Yay or nay? One neat thing about it is it can benefit from Lucifer Pattern Engines and still fire its main weapon, so it becomes quite zippy. On the subject of sponsors, lascannons or heavy bolters? I am a bit lacking in anti-tank, so the lascannons will help some, I guess.

**Wulfey**

I tried out a 2x slamcaptain + 3x5 scout battalion as a helper to my admech force. Just marking it down here that slam captains are the best. BLANGELS are an awesome splash force that provides an amazing way to turn CP into damage. I usually gave angel's wing to cap1 and the no -1 to hit hammer to cap2.

Depending on the opponent I could either go 5+++ WLT on a cap or take the 4 damage on the no -1 to hit hammer cap. These guys were super heroes (one of them took 7 CP and killed a wraithknight and an eldar flyer in a single charge). Their only fault is lack of 2+ armor.

**p5freak**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am thinking of adding a Relic Sicaran Battle Tank to my army. Yay or nay? One neat thing about it is it can benefit from Lucifer Pattern Engines and still fire its main weapon, so it becomes quite zippy. On the subject of sponsors, lascannons or heavy bolters? I am a bit lacking in anti-tank, so the lascannons will help some, I guess.

Moving 20" and still being able to fire (at -1) is nice. If you shoot a FLY unit you ignore that -1. Not only that -1, every modifier there is

Move 20" and shoot that eldar flyer which already has -2 to hit, it would be -3 but not with the accelerator autocannon

**Ordana**

Wulfey wrote:
I tried out a 2x slamcaptain + 3x5 scout battalion as a helper to my admech force. Just marking it down here that slam captains are the best. BLANGELS are an awesome splash force that provides an amazing way to turn CP into damage. I usually gave angel's wing to cap1 and the no -1 to hit hammer to cap2.

Depending on the opponent I could either go 5+++ WLT on a cap or take the 4 damage on the no -1 to hit hammer cap. These guys were super heroes (one of them took 7 CP and killed a wraithknight and an eldar flyer in a single charge). Their only fault is lack of 2+ armor.

Let me guess.
Battlescribe?

Artisan of War includes a little important bit at the end.
'This cannot apply to relic weapons'

**Wulfey**

Ordana wrote:
Wulfey wrote:
I tried out a 2x slamcaptain + 3x5 scout battalion as a helper to my admech force. Just marking it down here that slam captains are the best. BLANGELS are an awesome splash force that provides an amazing way to turn CP into damage. I usually gave angel's wing to cap1 and the no -1 to hit hammer to cap2.

Depending on the opponent I could either go 5+++ WLT on a cap or take the 4 damage on the no -1 to hit hammer cap. These guys were super heroes (one of them took 7 CP and killed a wraithknight and an eldar flyer in a single charge). Their only fault is lack of 2+ armor.
Let me guess.
Battlescribe?

Artisan of War includes a little important bit at the end.
'This cannot apply to relic weapons'

It was my first time with the codex and I would have aced that wraithknight even without the 4 damage since I used HONOR THE CHAPTER. That makes the +1 dam WLT not as good . EDIT: actually, since I did 18 damage to the WK on the first swing ... I don't even think I used the 4 dam.

**casvalremdeikun**

p5freak wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am thinking of adding a Relic Sicaran Battle Tank to my army. Yay or nay? One neat thing about it is it can benefit from Lucifer Pattern Engines and still fire its main weapon, so it becomes quite zippy. On the subject of sponsors, lascannons or heavy bolters? I am a bit lacking in anti-tank, so the lascannons will help some, I guess.

Moving 20" and still being able to fire (at -1) is nice. If you shoot a FLY unit you ignore that -1. Not only that -1, every modifier there is Move 20" and shoot that eldar flyer which already has -2 to hit, it would be -3 but not with the accelerator autocannon

Holy crap, you're right about the Accelerator Cannon. No penalties to units with the Fly keyword. Period. End of story. That is awesome! Too bad I can only take one of them at a time. I kinda want to get a second one and take out my Repulsor tank. That is a spicy tank, for sure!