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 Galas wrote:
I like to think of Ironjawz as some type of Mok'nathal like in Warcraft, a kinda of hybrid style between Ogres and Orcs.

In my mind (And in the fluff to be honest) they are a completely different type of greenskin and they basically are just like black orcs where compared with normal orcs, and snotlings are to gnoblas and to hobgoblins and to goblins.

Yeah, they are explicitly a different type of orc. Someone made a goblin to regular orc comparison earlier and that is a largely accurate analogy (in physical terms), further that is the point.

As much as I like both kits I did have a blast doing my Ironjawz last year. I think the kit is quite versatile and the detail is very sharp. All preferences aside its always a shame when kits go OOP. Heck I still love the old bigger plastic Night gobbos!

Since incredulity was expressed, I will briefly list what I do not like about Ironjawz. I guess it is pointless to argue about taste in miniatures, since it is subjective, but just explaining my POV
1. Scale creep. I hate that Ironjawz are so much bigger than normal Orcs. Orcs are already huge, hulking brutes in Fantasy. Upscaling them to the size of small ogres seems pointless and excessive to me when we already have Ogres, and it also seems like one upmanship in the most crude and blatant way.
2. The armour. The armour on these guys is ridiculous. Black Orcs are already an almost ludicrously over armoured orc, these guys take it to a whole nother level with these gigantic plates and nearly every inch of them covered in plate armour. I think it looks awful, and is visually samey and not interesting at all. It also looks very much like how 40K mega armour is designed visually, and I think it just looks utterly out of place in a fantasy game.
3. The monsters. I think the gore gruntas and mawbeast look awful. The mawbeast looks so badly proportioned they had to make up some bs background reason as to why it can fly, and the gore gruntas are so blatantly "Oh, you thought Boar Boys were cool? Well LOOKIT DIS!" that it is nauseating.
4. Not entirely fair, but dear god the colour scheme. That bright yellow on the armour plates is a terrible choice and makes the models look god damn awful. Whose idea was that mess?

The army is visually not interesting, lacks variety, and is a poor replacement for proper orcs.

What exactly is the lore behind the Ironjawz? They’re orruks yes, but what kind? Are they spawned as Ironjawz or do they fight to become them?

AFAIK the story is now the same as 40K, the more they fight the bigger they get and these ones fight the most so they are the biggest.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think the Ironjawz kits look a lot better, as does our gaming group. Actually this is the first I've encountered of anyone who thinks the old ones look better.

Well, count a second then. I like the old orcs quite a bit more than the new Ironjawz scultps, in general.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
2. The armour. The armour on these guys is ridiculous. Black Orcs are already an almost ludicrously over armoured orc, these guys take it to a whole nother level with these gigantic plates and nearly every inch of them covered in plate armour. I think it looks awful, and is visually samey and not interesting at all. It also looks very much like how 40K mega armour is designed visually, and I think it just looks utterly out of place in a fantasy game.

Actually, that's the fun bit...

(Images by TheDraconicLord)



They do wear a <removed - please do not circumvent the language filter> of armor, but only in the front... they basically wear heavily armored aprons xD

 Da Boss wrote:
Since incredulity was expressed, I will briefly list what I do not like about Ironjawz. I guess it is pointless to argue about taste in miniatures, since it is subjective, but just explaining my POV
1. Scale creep. I hate that Ironjawz are so much bigger than normal Orcs. Orcs are already huge, hulking brutes in Fantasy. Upscaling them to the size of small ogres seems pointless and excessive to me when we already have Ogres, and it also seems like one upmanship in the most crude and blatant way.
2. The armour. The armour on these guys is ridiculous. Black Orcs are already an almost ludicrously over armoured orc, these guys take it to a whole nother level with these gigantic plates and nearly every inch of them covered in plate armour. I think it looks awful, and is visually samey and not interesting at all. It also looks very much like how 40K mega armour is designed visually, and I think it just looks utterly out of place in a fantasy game.

The part that gets to me about the armor (and a lot of the heads), is it looks like pieces are just stuck on with glue. Which admittedly is literally the case, but a well made model shouldn't look that way. There should be natural attachment points and joins that look good, not just bits stuck together in an approximation of armor, hanging on in defiance of gravity and sense. They just look awful.

This isn't unique to these models by any means, but it stands out given the relative young age of the kit and what GW is capable of today rather than in the 80s/90s.

I like the Mawbeast. It looks like a Monster Hunter wyvern.

Even the pose reminds me of a Tigrex, and after all these years and killing most likely hundreds of them, still makes me uneasy...

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I like the Mawbeast. It looks like a Monster Hunter wyvern.

Even the pose reminds me of a Tigrex, and after all these years and killing most likely hundreds of them, still makes me uneasy...

The greatest thing about the model is the lore on how it flies.

As fascinating as this tangent is can we please stick to News and rumours for Age of Sigmar. Feel free to create a new thread to carry on the other discussion.
Thanks,
ingtaer.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
What exactly is the lore behind the Ironjawz? They’re orruks yes, but what kind? Are they spawned as Ironjawz or do they fight to become them?

Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1MSP9RQry4

part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkC6R7iwMGk

from new WD preview ... new look at free people?

I think that's a recycled art from the big book. The art shows how cultures look on a specific realm, I wouldn't base much on it.

 Knight wrote:
I think that's a recycled art from the big book. The art shows how cultures look on a specific realm, I wouldn't base much on it.

Yep. The BRB has some nice artwork in it that doesn't have models.

Looking at that design, I’m wondering if High Elf bits would be suitable for Free People conversations. Scale mail, pointy shoulder pads, more high fantasy than the empire. Maybe?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xking wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
What exactly is the lore behind the Ironjawz? They’re orruks yes, but what kind? Are they spawned as Ironjawz or do they fight to become them?

Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1MSP9RQry4

part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkC6R7iwMGk

Thanks!

 aracersss wrote:
from new WD preview ... new look at free people?

It's just a modelling article, like the one from January when it was talking about modelling your army/terrain from the Realm of Fire. February is the Metal's turn.

Don't expect any new miniatures there, just hints to help you give a theme for your army with painting/converting.

I wouldn't mind realm-specific upgrade sprues for Free Peoples, though. That'd be pretty cool.

That would be sweet. Or even basing kits.

We're talking about AoS. GW is still chilly with this game, so I wouldn't bet much money on basing kits/upgrade sprues specifically for Realms. If it was for 40k, it would be more likely.

What do you mean by chilly exactly? We've already had themed bases for a while now. Realm specific one's could easily come in a multiple box.

They seem pretty committed to the game to me. They just updated almost all the finecast Squig models and released a ton of new plastic kits for the gobbos.

 Sarouan wrote:
We're talking about AoS. GW is still chilly with this game, so I wouldn't bet much money on basing kits/upgrade sprues specifically for Realms. If it was for 40k, it would be more likely.

This is objectively wrong. GW had a ton of releases last year for AoS, and has already started several previews and a large release this year.

GW is quite committed to AoS at this point, and it clearly shows.

GW isn't chilly towards AoS. Quite the opposite in fact. The new grot release alone is proof of that.

 Sarouan wrote:
We're talking about AoS. GW is still chilly with this game, so I wouldn't bet much money on basing kits/upgrade sprues specifically for Realms. If it was for 40k, it would be more likely.

The customer base could easily be described as chilly , at least initially (personally, I was fundamentally opposed), and GW was rather cautious with releases for the first 8 months (Sigmarines, Blood blooders and more and more Sigmarines, then just reboxing lizardmen), but that's long gone.

Especially with '2nd edition' AoS, GW has been happily crazed about the property and has gone a bit mad (in a good way) with it. Pinned down the setting, got into sketching out places and people (though the latter needs more work) and gone all out on several of the newer releases. Shadespire is even functioning as a gateway property for people to dabble in a small band of models to try out an army's aesthetics and painting potential.


Truthfully, they're doing a lot more with AoS than they did with Fantasy Battles. It got to the point they were just turning over books with a few new kits with no direction or idea what to do with them, which led to things like Wood Elves in the 'time out' box for over a decade. AoS elves have a lot more depth and thought attached to them, even with the superfluous 'a' attached to their noun.

No, they're still chilly with AoS. Compare with the number of releases made for 40k and AoS -it's definitely not the same. For example, Kill Team has its own separate release with extensive (and interesting rules). What do we have for AoS Skirmish ? A mere update in the White Dwarf, that's hardly interesting in itself since it's just a few modifications here and there without any great advancement. I hoped for something like Hinterlands from Bottle, and was really disappointed with this. And from what I saw from the campaign rules in the february preview for the White Dwarf, it's just the old campaign from the first edition of skirmish. You can expect there won't be any special box for this "new update" like for Kill Team - terrain bundles, and so on.

Sure, they did a great job with the recent goblins. But do you remember what we had for Beast of Chaos ? It's a bit difficult to understand where exactly GW want to go with AoS. The background is evolving, I admit it, but it still feels like something is missing. The timeline is really rough, the realms are a lot of emptyness begging to be filled with the player's own story, and so on. So far, what I feel we have is merely a few sand boxes here and there, and still something that is slowly building.

I do believe the burn from AoS's first launch is still there. And sometimes, I don't feel like the studio has a lot of love for AoS background. What is found in the battletomes barely scratch the surface, we need more details. Competitive players don't care about that, of course, but the narrative players are hungry for more. IMHO.

40k on the other hand is really doing well, as I feel it. AoS is still building, in comparison. You can see as well the space devoted to unit's background is sensibly smaller than the one for 40k units (AoS units usually have several units on the same page, and don't have as many details as in 40k's codex. This is especially showing in the Maggotkin battletome when you read the description for demons and then the same demons in the Chaos Demon Codex for 40k - much more details for 40k even though they're actually the same demons in both universes !).

I don't expect any new basing kit for AoS before a very, very long time. What we will have, though, are modelling articles in the White Dwarf - but always using existing sprues and giving hints for conversions, nothing more.

By the way, did you notice the squig dice are already on Last Chance to Buy on the GW Website ? Barely the month of release is passed and it's already out. Another sign that what is made for AoS doesn't last as much as for 40k.

Putting it quite bluntly, Skirmish with AoS just doesn't really work out well. Path to Glory is, IMO, far superior.

Dice and stuff like that going to "last chance to buy" is a joke to point at. You know that's not something GW produces themselves, right?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Putting it quite bluntly, Skirmish with AoS just doesn't really work out well. Path to Glory is, IMO, far superior.

Dice and stuff like that going to "last chance to buy" is a joke to point at. You know that's not something GW produces themselves, right?

Yes, and since it's on "last chance to buy" so fast really shows they didn't make a lot of them. That's why I say they're still chilly with AoS products - they don't expect to sell as much as 40k stuff.

Reason why Skirmish doesn't really work out well is because what they made is just a quick "copy and paste" from the first edition of AoS Skirmish rules that was sold as a (small) separate book. It wasn't thought as a separate game like Kill Team. And the reason why is because GW doesn't seem to want to put specific ressources like they did for Kill Team to do something really great for the skirmish game version of AoS.

So we have a White Dwarf update, and that's all. Which I think is sad, because there is a potential to make something really interesting - like "Mordheim in AoS" with specific rules akind to Kill Team/Necromunda...GW can do that, they already proved it.

 Sarouan wrote:
Yes, and since it's on "last chance to buy" so fast really shows they didn't make a lot of them. That's why I say they're still chilly with AoS products - they don't expect to sell as much as 40k stuff.

Or maybe they sold so well that all they have is a handful left. One is just as likely as the other.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
Yes, and since it's on "last chance to buy" so fast really shows they didn't make a lot of them. That's why I say they're still chilly with AoS products - they don't expect to sell as much as 40k stuff.

Or maybe they sold so well that all they have is a handful left. One is just as likely as the other.

Still not making the Skirmish update in the White Dwarf better.

But hey, I admit I put my expectations too high here. It's clear GW doesn't want to make a version of Kill Team release for AoS for now.

I don't think the comparison of skirmish to kill team should be taken as representative of how 'chilly' GW is towards AoS. Better to count the number of new kits released in the last year for each. Considering we know 40k generates more sales by a fair margin, even close to a similar number of model releases would mean GW is pushing AoS pretty hard.