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You say they won’t pay GW’s prices.

I’d say £38,000,000 profit in six months has rathe pissed on your chips on that count....

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, I get that.

But it's flawed logic when it can be applied to any other model which, should it have a lower purchase price, makes the cost per hour even smaller. It still makes the cost of GW against a competitor just as relatively high.

He said he didn't game. When you build models to paint and build, you don't want "cheap" models just to paint and build for the act of doing it. You want specific pieces that you love how they look, to motivate you. So is basically approaching GW's product form a different perspective. If you just want them has a gaming piece, yeah they are overpriced. If you want them has a "painting/modelism" proyect, well. They can't be overpriced has long as you believe the look is good enough to justify the price, becuase in that "Hobby" everything is subjetive.

Oh right, and nobody has ever made a miniature that anyone's wanted for less than GW sell theirs for? Frankly, if you're buying models to paint only, GW are a fairly crude and basic choice, they're designed as gaming pieces at least in part and plastic doesn't have the resolution of detail resin does.

You're right that most things are subjective, and "this model gets me X hobby hours" is a perfectly fine rationalization on a personal level, but it doesn't make for a very strong argument against the very objective comparison of models made from the same materials using the same techniques and offered for radically different selling prices.

Probably this is because I have slept 6 hours in the last two days and I have just come home from a exhausting W40K tournament. But I don't understand what you are saying.
I agree, theres other companies doing better products from a "propainter" perspective at better prices. But at the same time, when you are measuring their products from a pure aesthetic subjetive way, you can't really say they are overpriced. It doesn't matter that other companies are doing other models with a better technical, proportion, whatever level, at a better price, in resin with finer detail, etc... if the painter prefers the aesthetic of the GW model, the rest will not work for him.

This is not like Mantic where GW has gaming pieces are, objetively, overpriced (This of course doesn't mean they are priced out of the market. They normally aren't, at least if they aren't extreme cases like Fyreslayers, Witch Elves, Vampire Bloodknights) because a Mantic dwarf with an axe is just as usefull has a gaming piece has a GW dwarf with an axe.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

This is in a discussion about the market including cheaper competitors of equivalent quality, or at least a better value for price. GW's overhead, shareholders and branding requirements don't factor into the customer's comparison shopping.

This is very true, but what DOES factor into the comparison shopping is the IP and hype machine GW has built up over decades. Valuable IPs are by definition valuable and can therefore charge more.

To a degree, GW's product is more valuable because it's attached to a better IP people care more about. The hype machine costs money to run, which raises the price as well. The release schedule requires cash flow. And so on.

Even at GW prices it's still a cheap hobby, relatively speaking. Yes, you can spend less going with other company's products, if you're very price sensitive. I can't bring myself to pay $45 CAN for a single 32mm character model either, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to abandon buying GW product entirely, it just means I'm going to be more selective.

That said, I backed a lot of miniature KS that I haven't painted much of once I got the product and was disappointed, so cheaper product doesn't necessarily mean good value either. The best value is the miniature you're excited to paint and play with, regardless of its source and/or cost. Mantic's Enforcers are cheaper than Space Marines, but I'd rather paint Space Marines.

I noticed some people say that they purchased GW mini's for painting and that there where none better out there. Can I ask them where they have been for the past decade?
There are many mini producers whom sell far superior models to GW (not hard to do in all honesty, unless you consider 'cartoony animeish with chunky features and way too much bling' to be good) and at prices that are far lower than the absurd sum that our beloved GW demands.

 master of ordinance wrote:
I noticed some people say that they purchased GW mini's for painting and that there where none better out there. Can I ask them where they have been for the past decade?
There are many mini producers whom sell far superior models to GW (not hard to do in all honesty, unless you consider 'cartoony animeish with chunky features and way too much bling' to be good) and at prices that are far lower than the absurd sum that our beloved GW demands.

I do tend to prefer GW LOTR/Hobbit minis to Mithrils, but yeah the 40k/AoS models are just too cartoony for my tastes. I prefer the malifaux and Confrontation metals to paint.

I remember buying Njal Stormcaller for $12 in the late 90's, even with inflation that would be under $20 in today's money.

The EXACT same model is now $33 (converted to inferior resin when it used to be metal) while the new plastic characters weigh in at $50.

That said, I think Blood Bowl these days is pretty good value, and the only thing I've bought from them recently. GW pricing is wonky as all hell, some things don't seem to bad others are just crazy.

The other day, I read that thread about GW making a profit, and my jaw dropped.

It amazes me that they are still in business with those prices. Why?

Let me give you some examples.

I haven't bought WD in years, and a flicked through a copy at WH Smith the other day.

Pages of adverts, gak poor articles, the usual format that has stayed the same.

Later on, I'm in a model railway shop. And I see Humbrol paint. And Tamiya paint. And it's cheaper. And the quality is better than GW paints, and then I remember Vallejo paints that are cheaper, better, and give you more.

And yet, I'm lead to beleive that in this day and age of the internet, people still buy GW paints.

And then you look at some of their crazy model prices.

And then you look at a ton of other companies doing high quality models...for cheaper...

And you wonder where GW is making this profit from...

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, I get that.

But it's flawed logic when it can be applied to any other model which, should it have a lower purchase price, makes the cost per hour even smaller. It still makes the cost of GW against a competitor just as relatively high.

To this i would say that its true, its cheaper per hour to get a cheaper model, but when the comparison is between paying £1 per hour or £3 its neither here nor there for me.

master of ordinance wrote:I noticed some people say that they purchased GW mini's for painting and that there where none better out there. Can I ask them where they have been for the past decade?
There are many mini producers whom sell far superior models to GW (not hard to do in all honesty, unless you consider 'cartoony animeish with chunky features and way too much bling' to be good) and at prices that are far lower than the absurd sum that our beloved GW demands.

To both of these i will concede that GW minis are not the best on the market. However I absolutely love 40k lore and the setting, and whilst i can get a tank approximately equivalent to a LRBT in terms of modelling that is probably cheaper and more detailed, it just doesn't excite me. I don't see it scything through hordes of orks or anything awesome like that, to me it's just a ww2 tank.

Its totally subjective, but for me that's part of my main enjoyment of the hobby.

Just when you want to get nasty over it... remember-

 John Prins wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

This is in a discussion about the market including cheaper competitors of equivalent quality, or at least a better value for price. GW's overhead, shareholders and branding requirements don't factor into the customer's comparison shopping.

This is very true, but what DOES factor into the comparison shopping is the IP and hype machine GW has built up over decades. Valuable IPs are by definition valuable and can therefore charge more.

To a degree, GW's product is more valuable because it's attached to a better IP people care more about. The hype machine costs money to run, which raises the price as well. The release schedule requires cash flow. And so on.

Even at GW prices it's still a cheap hobby, relatively speaking. Yes, you can spend less going with other company's products, if you're very price sensitive. I can't bring myself to pay $45 CAN for a single 32mm character model either, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to abandon buying GW product entirely, it just means I'm going to be more selective.

That said, I backed a lot of miniature KS that I haven't painted much of once I got the product and was disappointed, so cheaper product doesn't necessarily mean good value either. The best value is the miniature you're excited to paint and play with, regardless of its source and/or cost. Mantic's Enforcers are cheaper than Space Marines, but I'd rather paint Space Marines.

Bingo. Warmahordes was, when I played, way cheaper and many of the models were of equal quality (since I quit I know their prices spiked as well).

The 40K IP is just way, way, too damn good. Even when I wasn't playing 40k, I sitll bought every major game release (Dawn of War 3, Total war, etc.) because I love the lore behind 40k and fantasy. Theres just so much, and some of it is amazing. The characters and universe have so many possibilities. And while the models are amazing, and yes others are doing them just as good if not better, the lore and character of their universes (so far) cannot compete with 40k.

That said, the start up of 40k is expensive... but once your in, its not so bad. $75 for a new land raider, or $60 for the new Call of Duty? At least the Land raider I won't get bored of after 20 hours. Yes, the games expensive, but if your playing 40k your probably not necessarily "poor".... just pick the models you want and buy them one at a time.

master of ordinance wrote:I noticed some people say that they purchased GW mini's for painting and that there where none better out there. Can I ask them where they have been for the past decade?
There are many mini producers whom sell far superior models to GW (not hard to do in all honesty, unless you consider 'cartoony animeish with chunky features and way too much bling' to be good) and at prices that are far lower than the absurd sum that our beloved GW demands.

I think a lot of GW's customer base is just used to their aesthetics and proportions. If one doesn't play GW games exclusively (or heavily) then it's easier to get away from that. But if you need GW-like stuff because you play their games and are used to that then it's harder to get away from it. It's ingrained and takes time to dislodge. It's not set in stone (FW is a bit less exaggerated proportioned and sometimes with less bling) but you have certain parameters to keep in mind for your squad/army to look cohesive.

If somebody moves more into the paining side of the hobby then there still that connection to GW even if there's no direct need for exactly the same proportions. It's like a comfortable habit, nobody will just give it up. I remember liking GW when I got into the hobby and then when exploring other miniature lines not being satisfied with those. GW had certain exaggerated features but that also made paining more fun or accessible. Even if another company had miniatures of the same size the more normal proportions meant details like hands/faces/weapons were usually much smaller (and less impactful). It took me some time but at some point GW's more extreme exaggeration started to look more grotesque or like they are overdoing it and I think in the long term size and scale creep helped other manufacturers more than GW. It allowed others to have details that are a bit bigger with more normal proportions while GW had to keep the degree of exaggeration relatively constant to keep their lines cohesive.

AOS minis (new fantasy) and the new Marines are all bigger by default and seem a bit (a tiny bit) less exaggerated and that seems like their way out of about two decades of consistent styling/sizing/proportions. In the end it's about personal preference and somebody linking mostly only GW miniatures doesn't make them wrong although it might indicate a unusually focused appreciation of aesthetics.

 Zid wrote:
That said, the start up of 40k is expensive... but once your in, its not so bad. $75 for a new land raider, or $60 for the new Call of Duty? At least the Land raider I won't get bored of after 20 hours. Yes, the games expensive, but if your playing 40k your probably not necessarily "poor".... just pick the models you want and buy them one at a time.

This argument makes no sense. It's possible to not be "poor" and still think their prices are simply too high. I've got more than enough disposable income to play 40k, but I find much more value elsewhere in the hobby. This leaves much of that disposable income for other things outside of the hobby, which is a nice bonus.

If someone really likes the universe, you said yourself there's ways they can enjoy it that are more reasonable. They have novels and video games for both phones/tablets and PCs. I'll happily buy Total War Warhammer or Dawn of War to enjoy the universe while also laughing with the rest of my gaming group about their insane model pricing over a game of Infinity or Malifaux.

I just dropped $300+ on Plastic Soldier Company products. From what I can see the box says made in Great Britain. So at least some of the products are made by people with the same standard of living as the consumers.

For example- a German late war panzer army has the following for $57-

This late war German panzer army box set will give you all you need to start fighting on the Eastern and Western fronts of WW2. Included in this box you will get 6x Panzer IV's, 4x Panthers, 4x SdKfz 251/D Halftracks, 2x Tiger I's, 47x Panzergrenadiers, including 3x LMG teams, Command and panzerfausts and panzerschrecks, 1x mixed base sprue and a generic decal sheet with balkankreuz.


I got it here, in case it seems too good to be true. http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/lawargepaarp.html

Point is there are still wargame companies out there offering value.

This horse has been beaten dead a million times. GW prices are simply not related to cost of production.

 master of ordinance wrote:
I noticed some people say that they purchased GW mini's for painting and that there where none better out there. Can I ask them where they have been for the past decade?
There are many mini producers whom sell far superior models to GW (not hard to do in all honesty, unless you consider 'cartoony animeish with chunky features and way too much bling' to be good) and at prices that are far lower than the absurd sum that our beloved GW demands.

And potato heads. Don't forget the potato heads. You look at it and think - yeah, if that were a bit bigger, i'd put it in a pot and boil it and then eat it when it was done with some steak and vegetables. Bobby G has a potato head, and he's one of the more recent models. It does make you wonder.

 Galef wrote:
I never buy individual characters. It's cheaper just to buy a box of similar models and convert. It is also adds more character to your army

It is how I put it in the gw survey. In believe the price of squad is still acceptable but heroes are way too expensive. The point of extra bits is also very relevant to me. But in a way I also understand that they sacrified customizable part to achieve better dynamism of the models. A great exemple is boyz, which are very customizable but have a more "toy" feeling due to how arm and torso should be interchangeable. Still a pair of head and pistols could always be an option.

Nevertheless, considering the opener pov, I would like to make some comments:
• the price of a mini is in no way related to material
• cost of sculpting, painting, displaying each mini is getting more expensive as quality goes up
• molding protocols for plastic are more expensive than for other materials
• these costs are less important in proportion when the number of sold items goes up
• 1$ in 2018 is not 1$ in 1990
• your wallet as a working adult is not your wallet as a kid

I think all things considered the last point is the more important. GW is perfectly aware they ahave a captive and passionate grown up market and it is why they have different kind of prices. Their politic looks like to me as "if you want exclusive stunning character models, pay for it"

My only major problem is that GW's increases prove people don't care. They'll happily forgive years of dickery for a fresh coat of paint and false promises. 8th edition 40k is the best it's ever been, the likes we haven't seen since the olden days, yet the game is probably as bad as it's ever been as well, and yet people don't care and still clamor to buy it. 40k killed off all its competition here when before it was roughly even, and for what? For a game that promised to be better and while it might better than the awful mess of 7th edition is still pretty much a dumpster fire.

That's the worst part. GW has learned that they can put up enough smoke and mirrors, throw up a community site and have mediocre painting videos from a mook who has become a meme, and then still ignore game balance, and they'll make record profits.

Or we're shown that different people care about different things, and that's perfectly normal?

 -Loki- wrote:

 Zid wrote:
That said, the start up of 40k is expensive... but once your in, its not so bad. $75 for a new land raider, or $60 for the new Call of Duty? At least the Land raider I won't get bored of after 20 hours. Yes, the games expensive, but if your playing 40k your probably not necessarily "poor".... just pick the models you want and buy them one at a time.

This argument makes no sense. It's possible to not be "poor" and still think their prices are simply too high. I've got more than enough disposable income to play 40k, but I find much more value elsewhere in the hobby. This leaves much of that disposable income for other things outside of the hobby, which is a nice bonus.

If someone really likes the universe, you said yourself there's ways they can enjoy it that are more reasonable. They have novels and video games for both phones/tablets and PCs. I'll happily buy Total War Warhammer or Dawn of War to enjoy the universe while also laughing with the rest of my gaming group about their insane model pricing over a game of Infinity or Malifaux.

I can see your point. I suppose it depends on how you look at it, I love the universe and GW's models, and coming back I was a bit afraid of the prices. Now that I've established an army I guess i'm OK with them. If I dislike the price of a model, I'll find a way to convert one or build one from cheaper kits

Wayniac wrote:
My only major problem is that GW's increases prove people don't care. They'll happily forgive years of dickery for a fresh coat of paint and false promises. 8th edition 40k is the best it's ever been, the likes we haven't seen since the olden days, yet the game is probably as bad as it's ever been as well, and yet people don't care and still clamor to buy it. 40k killed off all its competition here when before it was roughly even, and for what? For a game that promised to be better and while it might better than the awful mess of 7th edition is still pretty much a dumpster fire.

That's the worst part. GW has learned that they can put up enough smoke and mirrors, throw up a community site and have mediocre painting videos from a mook who has become a meme, and then still ignore game balance, and they'll make record profits.

Thats a little hard on Duncan. Why don't you eat a snickers?

A $45 CAN space marine captain might not seem so bad if you've got 3000 points of space marines - it's certainly not NECESSARY - after all, you've got 3000 points of space marines, but you obviously like space marines at that point. It's an expensive optional buy, but because it's strictly optional you probably don't care so much about the price.

It's going to bite a lot harder if you're just starting primaris space marines and you need a captain for the sweet, sweet re-roll buff, and it's a lot harder to convert a Captain because the primaris kits don't come with tons of options.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when GW discontinues Dark Imperium, though we'll probably see Start Collecting Primaris Space Marines with a Captain, Intercessor and the ETB dread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

That's the worst part. GW has learned that they can put up enough smoke and mirrors, throw up a community site and have mediocre painting videos from a mook who has become a meme, and then still ignore game balance, and they'll make record profits.

Thats a little hard on Duncan. Why don't you eat a snickers?

Duncan's videos are aimed at beginners, but are pretty decent for that. He's actually pretty good at communicating technique.

You just have to remember that the videos are there to sell GW product (GW brushes! GW paint! GW water pot! GW palette paper!) more than anything else.

If you believe GW plc are just selling minatures to people who collect them at any price.(Snob value.)
Or to ''collectors who play'' who think ''..if I just buy some more it will validate all my previous purchases...'' (Sunk cost fallacy.)
Or to new customers who believe the marketing hype.

And they are not selling to people who care about the game play experience, or who expect similar value for money that other companies give.

Then you are right!
But you also have to believe there are enough ''GW loyal fans'' to keep paying any price no matter how high.Otherwise GW plc would have gone bust by now.

 Zid wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Zid wrote:
That said, the start up of 40k is expensive... but once your in, its not so bad. $75 for a new land raider, or $60 for the new Call of Duty? At least the Land raider I won't get bored of after 20 hours. Yes, the games expensive, but if your playing 40k your probably not necessarily "poor".... just pick the models you want and buy them one at a time.

This argument makes no sense. It's possible to not be "poor" and still think their prices are simply too high. I've got more than enough disposable income to play 40k, but I find much more value elsewhere in the hobby. This leaves much of that disposable income for other things outside of the hobby, which is a nice bonus.

If someone really likes the universe, you said yourself there's ways they can enjoy it that are more reasonable. They have novels and video games for both phones/tablets and PCs. I'll happily buy Total War Warhammer or Dawn of War to enjoy the universe while also laughing with the rest of my gaming group about their insane model pricing over a game of Infinity or Malifaux.

I can see your point. I suppose it depends on how you look at it, I love the universe and GW's models, and coming back I was a bit afraid of the prices. Now that I've established an army I guess i'm OK with them. If I dislike the price of a model, I'll find a way to convert one or build one from cheaper kits

Conversion only gets you so far. I've got about 2k of Tyranids in the cupboard, not including my Heirophant. I'd really like to get them out and use them. I really would! But there's things I want, because I've used those for a long time and have gotten a bit bored with them. I would really like a pair of Exocrines, a pair of Haruspex and a pair of Trygons. I played the old Epic games, so these are awesome nostalgia pieces. Those are not models that you just convert. However, that's also about $600au. That buys me a LOT of other things.

Alternately, there's things I want for Malifaux and Infinity. I'd like the Hassassin Bahram starter and Hassassin Muyibs box to expand my Haqqislam. I'd like the Amphibious Assault box and Waldgeists for the Zoraida crew I got for Christmas. Box of those expansions to my collection are under $100. They add more to my collection than what I'd have added with those Tyranids in terms of what they open up in terms of gameplay. Buying both also leaves me with ~$400 to do other things with. That's where I see value.

 Brotherjulian wrote:
believe me, it isn't 30 cents worth of material.

The characters are insanely priced, there’s no doubt, but the “cost of materials” argument is irrelevant. The design, tooling and manufacturing of hard plastic miniatures costs a lot, from wages to production.

It in no way justifies the cost of characters, but I am kinda tired of the argument that the raw material is very cheap, therefore we are getting screwed.

 MarsNZ wrote:
You think your prices are bad? Go to the GW site and change your shipping address to New Zealand then start browsing the madness.

The new big Nurgle daemon is almost $300. A single Primaris Lieutenant is $45, for a single space marine model.

Needless to say kiwi wargamers do quite a bit of business in China.

That's nothing. GW charges $23,000 for a single model if you're in Japan!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:
You think your prices are bad? Go to the GW site and change your shipping address to New Zealand then start browsing the madness.

The new big Nurgle daemon is almost $300. A single Primaris Lieutenant is $45, for a single space marine model.

Needless to say kiwi wargamers do quite a bit of business in China.

That's nothing. GW charges $23,000 for a single model if you're in Japan!

Wait what?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The other day, I read that thread about GW making a profit, and my jaw dropped.

It amazes me that they are still in business with those prices. Why?

Let me give you some examples.

I haven't bought WD in years, and a flicked through a copy at WH Smith the other day.

Pages of adverts, gak poor articles, the usual format that has stayed the same.

There is practically no adverts in White Dwarf these days - the odd Job opportunities ad, a page or two of BL stuff, but it is nothing compared to the WD of yore. The articles I suppose are a matter of taste, but the mag has improved out of sight since the weekly pamphlet was dropped. The format has changed dramatically in this latest incarnation.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Later on, I'm in a model railway shop. And I see Humbrol paint. And Tamiya paint. And it's cheaper. And the quality is better than GW paints, and then I remember Vallejo paints that are cheaper, better, and give you more.

Again, this is a matter of taste, but as you have been out of the GW for many years I am guessing you haven't used GW paint recently. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, in fact it is very good. It is much better than Humbrol. I use paint from Vallejo and Minitaire with the odd P3 thrown in. A have a few GW pots too - mainly for specific colours. And their technical paints are very handy. I don't use them as my main paints because they are far too expensive. But the quality is absolutely fine.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
And yet, I'm lead to beleive that in this day and age of the internet, people still buy GW paints.

It makes sense if you are new to painting, or not a confident painter - the GW tutorials are actually pretty good, and obviously direct you with GW specific paints.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
And then you look at some of their crazy model prices.

And then you look at a ton of other companies doing high quality models...for cheaper...

And you wonder where GW is making this profit from...

Their pricing is insane, I think everyone has agreed on this for the past 30 years. I got into the hobby around 1991, so have seen many different eras of pricing and manufacturing. I game in most periods and I have plastic kits from Warlord, PSC, Fireforge, Conquest, Battlefront, Victrix to name a few. All of these kits are high quality and very reasonably priced. You can get a big Bolt Action army up and running very cheaply with some great plastic kits for example. But that doesn't mean GW kits don't have an appeal - firstly they have a unique IP that people love. Secondly they are usually a lot of fun to build and a lot of fun to paint. I don't really game with any GW systems anymore, but I still buy the odd boxed set - the Primaris Marines were an absolute joy to paint, a lot of fun. I'm putting together some Sector Mechanicus terrain for Necromunda at the moment, and the quality is outstanding, the models are an absolute blast to paint and they look wonderful when finished. True, I had to harvest a kidney to buy them, but I don't mind because they provide me with the sort of rush I love that this hobby gives me. And besides, everything in this hobby is cheap compared to my other hobby, which is photography. And every day I am thankful I was never bitten by the "classic car" bug!

Kiwis don't understand global logistics. That's why PSC >>> Battlefront for minis.

As a further comparison:

This named character mini, sculpted to insane levels of detailing and skill, an utter beauty to behold, the most recent and up to date figure in her line, will cost me £7.00, and it comes with an alternative head option. She is also metal.
Image of infinity model spoiled for size, it's the nifty new Joan
This is the closest and cheapest GW equivalent that I could find, and it racks in at a surprisingly cheap £8.20, though when you consider and it is a 20 something year old sculpt that does bring some thoughts to mind. Actually this is a pretty damn good sculpt, and still holds up well today. She is also not a named character, and is thus discounted.


BUT, we are comparing recent releases, so how about something more recent?
This initially springs to mind, but it is not a named HQ choice. Still, this rather ridiculously named HQ choice costs a whopping £22.00, an obscene amount for a poorly designed plastic kit.

Eventually we find our (relatively) recently released named character unit in the form of the all new plastic Kharn the Betrayer. For the low, low, price of £22.00 you can own a cartoonishly sculpted Kharn that tries to gloss over the poorly sculpted detail with vast amounts of excess bling and gribbly bits that add nothing to the overall model, save to hopefully distract you from how the 'hair' on the tassels took more like fins, or how the grill texturing is so thick and clunky. And to be honest, Kharn is one of the better releases since they moved over to this new style.


Yes, there are cheaper HQ's, with many coming as low as £10.25 (Uriah Jacobus) but these are the ancient sculpts that have yet to be updated, and are often generic unnamed characters. For this test we needed a recent release of a named character of 28 - 30mm in height. And we got one all right.
So, compare Corvus Belli's Joan D'Arc with GW's Kharn the betrayer and weep as you realise just how blatantly overpriced GW's products are.

Caliginous wrote:
Again, this is a matter of taste, but as you have been out of the GW for many years I am guessing you haven't used GW paint recently. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, in fact it is very good. It is much better than Humbrol. I use paint from Vallejo and Minitaire with the odd P3 thrown in. A have a few GW pots too - mainly for specific colours. And their technical paints are very handy. I don't use them as my main paints because they are far too expensive. But the quality is absolutely fine.

GW paints are very good. Their main issues are (as usual) price and the pots suck. If you're happy paying double what you'd pay from Vallejo and/or prefer the colour range, go for it. Under no circumstances should they be left in GW's pots to dry out - buy yourself some dropper bottles and decant them into it. GW are not alone in this - Privateer Presses paint range is the same. Fantastic paints, awful pots with lids that break after a few uses and should be decanted into dropper bottles.

Technical paints can't really have their pots changed, but those are very good too. I really like their blood effect paint, and it's much easier to use than Tamiya Clear Red. I'll pay more for an easier user experience.

With regard to the Canoness vs Jean, the paint job certainly doesn't do the canoness justice, and she does come with about a dozen weapon options and wargear, vs. Jean who only has the one loadout. And I do know you did discount it due to not being a named character.

I took my son to an LGS, as he wanted to buy some models with his allowance and holiday money. His words: "GW miniatures sure are expensive." He is 8. He was most disappointed that he couldn't find anything "cool" in the $15 range. He still bought 2 characters, but I could tell it pained him. I can see him moving to historicals soon. LoL