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Cruentus wrote: With regard to the Canoness vs Jean, the paint job certainly doesn't do the canoness justice, and she does come with about a dozen weapon options and wargear, vs. Jean who only has the one loadout. And I do know you did discount it due to not being a named character.
I took my son to an LGS, as he wanted to buy some models with his allowance and holiday money. His words: "GW miniatures sure are expensive." He is 8. He was most disappointed that he couldn't find anything "cool" in the $15 range. He still bought 2 characters, but I could tell it pained him. I can see him moving to historicals soon. LoL
Dunno where you're getting a dozen weapon options from, there's two left hand options, two right hand options (does the books count as a weapon?) and two back pack options (which are purely cosmetic.)
Plus the body and the base, that's the 8 parts listed in the description.
But old sculpts ultimately do GW a lot of favors, as all their price rises for several years have been loaded into new releases, which can make old models start to look like good value, until you realize you're paying 2008 prices in 2018 and that when the range updates the number will explode.
Something for Sisters players to be glad for!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/16 04:18:26
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Cruentus wrote: I took my son to an LGS, as he wanted to buy some models with his allowance and holiday money. His words: "GW miniatures sure are expensive." He is 8. He was most disappointed that he couldn't find anything "cool" in the $15 range. He still bought 2 characters, but I could tell it pained him. I can see him moving to historicals soon. LoL
The guy that runs my FLGS had the same criticism. He finds it hard to sell GW to the younger crowd because there's nothing in the 'pocket money price point' anymore. Used to be you could pick up a single character for $15au or a 2-3 miniature blister for $25-$30au, but now it's rare to find anything below $50au.
Cruentus wrote: I took my son to an LGS, as he wanted to buy some models with his allowance and holiday money. His words: "GW miniatures sure are expensive." He is 8. He was most disappointed that he couldn't find anything "cool" in the $15 range. He still bought 2 characters, but I could tell it pained him. I can see him moving to historicals soon. LoL
The guy that runs my FLGS had the same criticism. He finds it hard to sell GW to the younger crowd because there's nothing in the 'pocket money price point' anymore. Used to be you could pick up a single character for $15au or a 2-3 miniature blister for $25-$30au, but now it's rare to find anything below $50au.
That's the ticket. Same thing in the us, prices adjusted of course. Lots of our games shops only carry small selections now, but bones has taken off like wildfire for reaper.
Pocket money priced stuff works as a hook
I collect:
Grand alliance death (whole alliance)
Stormcast eternals
Slaves to Darkness - currently Nurgle but may expand to undivided.
I took my son to an LGS, as he wanted to buy some models with his allowance and holiday money. His words: "GW miniatures sure are expensive." He is 8. He was most disappointed that he couldn't find anything "cool" in the $15 range. He still bought 2 characters, but I could tell it pained him. I can see him moving to historicals soon. LoL
Definitely GW's biggest mistake is pricing the younger end of the market out of their product. That's the problem with going corporate, you lose sight of long term goals because the shareholders reward more immediate success. The 'Easy to Paint' stuff is a step in the right direction, but there's not nearly enough variety in either army or sculpts to keep people going. They should have a variety of First Strike style releases and Easy to Paints to train the customer base.
And they should keep popping out that give-away Primaris Marine they had for the Dark Imperium launch. Any new customer should be handed one of those babies.
This named character mini, sculpted to insane levels of detailing and skill, an utter beauty to behold, the most recent and up to date figure in her line, will cost me £7.00, and it comes with an alternative head option. She is also metal.
Image of infinity model spoiled for size, it's the nifty new Joan
Spoiler:
This is the closest and cheapest GW equivalent that I could find, and it racks in at a surprisingly cheap £8.20, though when you consider and it is a 20 something year old sculpt that does bring some thoughts to mind. Actually this is a pretty damn good sculpt, and still holds up well today. She is also not a named character, and is thus discounted.
Spoiler:
BUT, we are comparing recent releases, so how about something more recent?
This initially springs to mind, but it is not a named HQ choice. Still, this rather ridiculously named HQ choice costs a whopping £22.00, an obscene amount for a poorly designed plastic kit.
Eventually we find our (relatively) recently released named character unit in the form of the all new plastic Kharn the Betrayer. For the low, low, price of £22.00 you can own a cartoonishly sculpted Kharn that tries to gloss over the poorly sculpted detail with vast amounts of excess bling and gribbly bits that add nothing to the overall model, save to hopefully distract you from how the 'hair' on the tassels took more like fins, or how the grill texturing is so thick and clunky. And to be honest, Kharn is one of the better releases since they moved over to this new style.
Spoiler:
Yes, there are cheaper HQ's, with many coming as low as £10.25 (Uriah Jacobus) but these are the ancient sculpts that have yet to be updated, and are often generic unnamed characters. For this test we needed a recent release of a named character of 28 - 30mm in height. And we got one all right.
So, compare Corvus Belli's Joan D'Arc with GW's Kharn the betrayer and weep as you realise just how blatantly overpriced GW's products are.
That Kharn model was absolutely awful, far worse than the one before him, which is sad, because kharn is a neat character from the HH series.
I have a problem master of ordinance. Your joan of arc price is off For me she wil cost €15.75 whereas Kharn will cost 29. so that's only 100-ish percent more.
For the record Kharn (and GW as a whole) is expensive. There are brands/ miniature makers that are way cheaper because their company culture is centered around that. Gw is a premium-priced brand and therefore has to maintain premium prices to maintain that part of their audience. Snob-attitude is thing, see the recent raw water craze.
The price of a model(or products as a whole) is decided by what the market is willing to pay and not production cost. US health care is the most obvious example of what happens when you let a market run completely crazy. tough there are other factors involved there. On the other end of that, entire markets have crashed because people weren't buying it anymore.
So on a pure value perspective GW isn't worth it compâred to some of it's competition, really when compared to some re-casters like the $11 las turrets someone linked earlier in the thread they're saints.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/16 12:43:34
Increase or no, she is still cheaper, and a far superior model too.
I think you did highlight a major problem with GW though, namely that they are a culture in their own. When average Joe thinks of wargaming he thinks of GW, and when his kids want to get into the hobby they go to GW, and GW is all they know. Couple this with GW's delusional self-branding as "purveyors of premium collectable miniatures" and you have an open license for the company to hike its prices and charge ludicrous amounts of money for what are essentially very poor and clunky figures of limited detail, and because of the mix of a dedicated, almost cult like, fanatical fanbase, the massive IP and the simple fact that they are often the place that people come to in order to enter the hobby they can get away with what would be to any other company cooperate suicide.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
This named character mini, sculpted to insane levels of detailing and skill, an utter beauty to behold, the most recent and up to date figure in her line, will cost me £7.00, and it comes with an alternative head option. She is also metal.
Eventually we find our (relatively) recently released named character unit in the form of the all new plastic Kharn the Betrayer. For the low, low, price of £22.00 you can own a cartoonishly sculpted Kharn that tries to gloss over the poorly sculpted detail with vast amounts of excess bling and gribbly bits that add nothing to the overall model, save to hopefully distract you from how the 'hair' on the tassels took more like fins, or how the grill texturing is so thick and clunky. And to be honest, Kharn is one of the better releases since they moved over to this new style.
Soooo...We have model that's cheap in small quantities due to material vs model that is expensive in small quantities due to material and top of that model you have little reason to buy more than 1 which just limits on number of copies GW is expecting to sell...
This is why GW shouldn't use plastic for everything.
Quality of sculpt is another subject but it's totally unrealistic for the Kharn to be equally priced as the Joan. That would be GW doing loss quite likely. MAYBE work for generic loyal space marine special character(generic as in not chapter tied) but not for world eater special character.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/16 20:17:20
This named character mini, sculpted to insane levels of detailing and skill, an utter beauty to behold, the most recent and up to date figure in her line, will cost me £7.00, and it comes with an alternative head option. She is also metal.
Eventually we find our (relatively) recently released named character unit in the form of the all new plastic Kharn the Betrayer. For the low, low, price of £22.00 you can own a cartoonishly sculpted Kharn that tries to gloss over the poorly sculpted detail with vast amounts of excess bling and gribbly bits that add nothing to the overall model, save to hopefully distract you from how the 'hair' on the tassels took more like fins, or how the grill texturing is so thick and clunky. And to be honest, Kharn is one of the better releases since they moved over to this new style.
Soooo...We have model that's cheap in small quantities due to material vs model that is expensive in small quantities due to material and top of that model you have little reason to buy more than 1 which just limits on number of copies GW is expecting to sell...
This is why GW shouldn't use plastic for everything.
Quality of sculpt is another subject but it's totally unrealistic for the Kharn to be equally priced as the Joan. That would be GW doing loss quite likely. MAYBE work for generic loyal space marine special character(generic as in not chapter tied) but not for world eater special character.
They probably be should be doing special named characters through forge world. though their already existing character series.
Desubot wrote: They probably be should be doing special named characters through forge world. though their already existing character series.
So they can all get massive scenic bases that are in no way practical?
Well they dont need to be though i will say the dead marine the primarus apothocary guy is standing on did make it hell to put him on a gw plastic urban base.
Quality of sculpt is another subject but it's totally unrealistic for the Kharn to be equally priced as the Joan. That would be GW doing loss quite likely. MAYBE work for generic loyal space marine special character(generic as in not chapter tied) but not for world eater special character.
Cost of sales (the cost of making and developing the product in order to sell it) currently runs ~25% of RRP before sales tax. Now that'll swing up and down based on each product, but it's a useful average.
On that basis, GW could sell the plastic Kharn for the same price as Joan and still realise a profit. The reason they don't is because a) they can charge more and people are paying it and b) CB have nothing like the overhead that GW do. GW customers pay a hefty premium for their stores, even if they live in a part of the world that doesn't have any.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/16 21:25:35
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
The thing from my end of it, having come from DnD back in the 80s, is that those generic minis were a couple of bucks each, tops, and Bones is now in that market area - I just bought two amazing looking Pathfinder Battles Gnolls by Deep Cuts, pre primed grey, for $3.99. That was value for me, and I bought them just to paint them up.
On the other hand, GW's move to Finecast was supposed to be due to the increasing cost of metals (cheaper for the consumer), plastics were supposed to be cheaper for the consumer. Neither of these has panned out, in fact, with minor exceptions, prices have continued to increase, not decrease.
Perry can do metal historicals at 6 models for 7GBP. Warlord do metal characters for their historicals lines for $3-4 each. (Historicals have no IP to protect, so arguably there is less 'development', I know, and more competition for like models, so that keeps prices down). So you can't tell me that the price of metals is such that they HAVE to use plastic. Other companies even do resin far cheaper than GW or FW. We are clearly paying what the market will bear, and for the IP.
I also don't see it changing. Of course, as a player of all kinds of miniature games, I'll also continue to buy GW, but at a waaaay lesser rate than I did, and I have way more disposable income now.
With re: to comparing to other companies, with Jean D'Arc as an example, I have all kinds of Jean models from different sculptors, and I wouldn't buy the Infinity one, it looks odd to me. So, as a personal preference I wouldn't spend my money on it, there is no value for me. And that's the way cost and comparison discussions will always go.
"There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions." - Railguns
I dunno direct shipment of metal models could be a problem since they seem to do quite a lot of direct sales and ship quite a lot of product around different gw stores.
it may seem small but that gak adds up.
Not sure about historical and their logistical issues.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/16 22:02:15
So, compare Corvus Belli's Joan D'Arc with GW's Kharn the betrayer and weep as you realise just how blatantly overpriced GW's products are.
Ya know
just seeing the minimarket sale.
just took a look at those bat man models.
they are single figures in metal with fantastic sculpts that are 20$ per model.
The funny thing is that those figures still only come to £14.50, which is far cheaper than the supposedly 'cheap material' Kharn, and they look far better.
This named character mini, sculpted to insane levels of detailing and skill, an utter beauty to behold, the most recent and up to date figure in her line, will cost me £7.00, and it comes with an alternative head option. She is also metal.
Eventually we find our (relatively) recently released named character unit in the form of the all new plastic Kharn the Betrayer. For the low, low, price of £22.00 you can own a cartoonishly sculpted Kharn that tries to gloss over the poorly sculpted detail with vast amounts of excess bling and gribbly bits that add nothing to the overall model, save to hopefully distract you from how the 'hair' on the tassels took more like fins, or how the grill texturing is so thick and clunky. And to be honest, Kharn is one of the better releases since they moved over to this new style.
Soooo...We have model that's cheap in small quantities due to material vs model that is expensive in small quantities due to material and top of that model you have little reason to buy more than 1 which just limits on number of copies GW is expecting to sell...
This is why GW shouldn't use plastic for everything.
Quality of sculpt is another subject but it's totally unrealistic for the Kharn to be equally priced as the Joan. That would be GW doing loss quite likely. MAYBE work for generic loyal space marine special character(generic as in not chapter tied) but not for world eater special character.
The funny thing is that Plastic, along with FinecrapTM where both implemented to bring the costs of producing the figures down and to thus allow the models to be sold at a lower price, and yet for some weird reason the prices of GW's products continue to rise again and again. Kharn should, in theory, be pricing in at around £6 to £8 at the very most, though in all honesty the detailing is not good enough to warrant that, but even so the material and production costs do not add up. Joan is a metal model, cast from a far more expensive substance in a process that is far more costly and using moulds that will wear out far faster and yet CB still manages to turn over a profit. Kharn is a plastic model, cast in a cheaper material using a cheaper production method and moulds that are far hardier and longer lasting, and yet he manages to come in at over 3 times the price? Something is most certainly wrong there.
You also pointed out that Kharn, as a named character, will not sell as many models as a generic HQ unit, a valid point I will give you that, and that this is a good enough excuse for him to price in at such a stupendous amount of money when compared to Joan. This is inherently wrong, once again Joan is also a named HQ for a subfaction of a faction (as is Kharn). She will not sell as well as, say, a Knight blister or a Remote pack, but still CB manages quite happily to turn over a profit with her and her far pricer production costs. So if the whole "named special snowflake" label is not a valid reason to hike the pricing on a single model up vastly then what is?
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
Cruentus wrote: The thing from my end of it, having come from DnD back in the 80s, is that those generic minis were a couple of bucks each, tops, and Bones is now in that market area - I just bought two amazing looking Pathfinder Battles Gnolls by Deep Cuts, pre primed grey, for $3.99. That was value for me, and I bought them just to paint them up.
By Wizkids. Deep Cuts is the product line name. Nolzur's Marvelous Unpainted Miniatures is the product line name for the D&D minis which the WizKids company makes.
I had no idea that they were pre-primed. How well are they cleaned? That sort of plastic can be a PITA to deal with. If it is the same plastic as the WizKids pre-paints.
So, compare Corvus Belli's Joan D'Arc with GW's Kharn the betrayer and weep as you realise just how blatantly overpriced GW's products are.
Ya know
just seeing the minimarket sale.
just took a look at those bat man models.
they are single figures in metal with fantastic sculpts that are 20$ per model.
The funny thing is that those figures still only come to £14.50, which is far cheaper than the supposedly 'cheap material' Kharn, and they look far better.
They're also licensed, so you're getting charged for the IP license, but Kharn (and Warhammer in general) is GW's own IP, thus no licensing costs, and still costs way more?
As can be expected, the comparison between models becomes far, far worse in Australia. Joan is $19, Batman miniatures are anywhere between $15 and $25 for a single named character, Malifaux I can buy special characters in plastic with far, far better sculpts for as low as $12 a model, almost all of which are a higher percentage of an actual list than a GW character (lowest comes to 10% of a standard list, but in terms of models it's usually 12% at the least, and cost wise it's 20% or higher)
What about Kharn? What does he cost? $60.
For the same price as him, I could buy a crew starter plus extras for Malifaux, Infinity or Batman and be able to comfortably play a game. Any of those options can get me unique, named special characters, and in the case of Batman they're superheroes that have 40+ years of established background and a well known IP, but the models themselves are still 30-50% of the cost of Kharn after licensing
This named character mini, sculpted to insane levels of detailing and skill, an utter beauty to behold, the most recent and up to date figure in her line, will cost me £7.00, and it comes with an alternative head option. She is also metal.
Eventually we find our (relatively) recently released named character unit in the form of the all new plastic Kharn the Betrayer. For the low, low, price of £22.00 you can own a cartoonishly sculpted Kharn that tries to gloss over the poorly sculpted detail with vast amounts of excess bling and gribbly bits that add nothing to the overall model, save to hopefully distract you from how the 'hair' on the tassels took more like fins, or how the grill texturing is so thick and clunky. And to be honest, Kharn is one of the better releases since they moved over to this new style.
Soooo...We have model that's cheap in small quantities due to material vs model that is expensive in small quantities due to material and top of that model you have little reason to buy more than 1 which just limits on number of copies GW is expecting to sell...
This is why GW shouldn't use plastic for everything.
It really shouldn't be causing prices to be that dramatically high.
Wyrd set up their boxes so that you'll never want to buy it more than once. If it's a model you can legally take more than once, they will usually (mostly old models don't do this, new models absolutely do) set up the amount in the box to be a bit more than you'd reasonably take in a normal game, so it's unlikely most people will actually ever field the whole contents let lone want to buy it again. If it's a model that has a specific maximum you can take, they will put that maximum in the box.
Their individual infantry sized characters are about 1/4 the cost of GW's, and their large boxes are at most the cost of a tactical squad. Again, for something you'll only ever buy once. They also outsource all of their mold tooling and production, which increases the cost compared to GW who do it in house and just pay wages.
GW set their prices as high as they do for several reasons. They have shareholders to appease (because Kirby spent over a decade telling them they were the Porsche of miniatures, so they can't drop the prices). They have a retail chain to sustain (there's a reason no one else does this). Basically any reason you can come up with for their prices being so high, they're either self inflicted or they know their customers are gullible.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/17 01:03:37
It is up to the consumers to determine if they are getting value for their money and they will ultimately determine what prices GW charges and whether they stay in business. I assess the value of my gaming miniature purchases based on a number of factors including: how they look, how their "fluff" appeals to me, how they assemble/paint, how they play on the table top and, perhaps most importantly, how likely I am to play with them on the tabletop. Wonderfully detailed and cheap miniatures for a game that nobody plays are of very little value to me.
I will drop $30 CAD on a Dark Angels Lieutenant because he looks cool, his background appeals to me, he plays well and I will actually get to play him on the tabletop. I will not spend $15 CAD on a random Sci Fi game model regardless of how it looks or how much it is cheaper, because I will not play it. I know that I can go to a city in North America and Europe and find a game of 40K. That is wrapped up in the value for me.
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
I’d say £38,000,000 profit in six months has rathe pissed on your chips on that count....
GW had a pretty bad decade if you'll recall. One of the primary complaints was pricing; the other was the state of the rules. GW has apparently given a well-received rule set and given some discount starting boxes to address these concerns. However, the pricing issue is becoming ever more relevant with each new release. how many poor codex releases will it take for GW to reverse all their progress?
This is in a discussion about the market including cheaper competitors of equivalent quality, or at least a better value for price. GW's overhead, shareholders and branding requirements don't factor into the customer's comparison shopping.
This is very true, but what DOES factor into the comparison shopping is the IP and hype machine GW has built up over decades. Valuable IPs are by definition valuable and can therefore charge more.
To a degree, GW's product is more valuable because it's attached to a better IP people care more about. The hype machine costs money to run, which raises the price as well. The release schedule requires cash flow. And so on.
Even at GW prices it's still a cheap hobby, relatively speaking. Yes, you can spend less going with other company's products, if you're very price sensitive. I can't bring myself to pay $45 CAN for a single 32mm character model either, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to abandon buying GW product entirely, it just means I'm going to be more selective.
That said, I backed a lot of miniature KS that I haven't painted much of once I got the product and was disappointed, so cheaper product doesn't necessarily mean good value either. The best value is the miniature you're excited to paint and play with, regardless of its source and/or cost. Mantic's Enforcers are cheaper than Space Marines, but I'd rather paint Space Marines.
I've had the opposite experience. GW has devalued their IP greatly in my eyes. I also have bought a lot of KS minis and minis from other manufacturers, but I have generally been satisfied with their quality and their utility.m even when I wanted to buy more GW minis, I had a hard time overcoming the opportunity cost because there were so many other minis that gave better perceived value than what GW offered.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/17 06:49:36
I’d say £38,000,000 profit in six months has rathe pissed on your chips on that count....
GW had a pretty bad decade if you'll recall. One of the primary complaints was pricing; the other was the state of the rules. GW has apparently given a well-received rule set and given some discount starting boxes to address these concerns. However, the pricing issue is becoming ever more relevant with each new release. how many poor codex releases will it take for GW to reverse all their progress?
This is in a discussion about the market including cheaper competitors of equivalent quality, or at least a better value for price. GW's overhead, shareholders and branding requirements don't factor into the customer's comparison shopping.
This is very true, but what DOES factor into the comparison shopping is the IP and hype machine GW has built up over decades. Valuable IPs are by definition valuable and can therefore charge more.
To a degree, GW's product is more valuable because it's attached to a better IP people care more about. The hype machine costs money to run, which raises the price as well. The release schedule requires cash flow. And so on.
Even at GW prices it's still a cheap hobby, relatively speaking. Yes, you can spend less going with other company's products, if you're very price sensitive. I can't bring myself to pay $45 CAN for a single 32mm character model either, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to abandon buying GW product entirely, it just means I'm going to be more selective.
That said, I backed a lot of miniature KS that I haven't painted much of once I got the product and was disappointed, so cheaper product doesn't necessarily mean good value either. The best value is the miniature you're excited to paint and play with, regardless of its source and/or cost. Mantic's Enforcers are cheaper than Space Marines, but I'd rather paint Space Marines.
I've had the opposite experience. GW has devalued their IP greatly in my eyes. I also have bought a lot of KS minis and minis from other manufacturers, but I have generally been satisfied with their quality and their utility.m even when I wanted to buy more GW minis, I had a hard time overcoming the opportunity cost because there were so many other minis that gave better perceived value than what GW offered.
I often think discussions like this are filled with a lack of understanding between the different parties.
I don't think that's the fault of either party in the discussion.
They simply are involved in different hobbies. Ones a general Wargamer the other a GW collector/painter/player.
The price (or quality) of other systems to the GW fan is a complete irrelevance. You might as well be offering them a price comparison with a fishing rod.
The funny thing is that Plastic, along with FinecrapTM where both implemented to bring the costs of producing the figures down and to thus allow the models to be sold at a lower price, and yet for some weird reason the prices of GW's products continue to rise again and again. Kharn should, in theory, be pricing in at around £6 to £8 at the very most, though in all honesty the detailing is not good enough to warrant that, but even so the material and production costs do not add up. Joan is a metal model, cast from a far more expensive substance in a process that is far more costly and using moulds that will wear out far faster and yet CB still manages to turn over a profit. Kharn is a plastic model, cast in a cheaper material using a cheaper production method and moulds that are far hardier and longer lasting, and yet he manages to come in at over 3 times the price? Something is most certainly wrong there.
You also pointed out that Kharn, as a named character, will not sell as many models as a generic HQ unit, a valid point I will give you that, and that this is a good enough excuse for him to price in at such a stupendous amount of money when compared to Joan. This is inherently wrong, once again Joan is also a named HQ for a subfaction of a faction (as is Kharn). She will not sell as well as, say, a Knight blister or a Remote pack, but still CB manages quite happily to turn over a profit with her and her far pricer production costs. So if the whole "named special snowflake" label is not a valid reason to hike the pricing on a single model up vastly then what is?
Yes plastic costs less than metal but molds cost crapload more than metal molds that are basically free. Metal is CHEAPER than plastic for small print runs. How hard this simple concept is to grasp? If you have print run of 100 models metal is LOT CHEAPER than plastic to produce. Plastic is cheap for stuff you sell tons. Basic troops. The stuff you expect to sell many many many boxes to single customer and preferably to many many customers. Maybe even needing more than 1 sprue per box. It comes very expensive however when you sell only 1 sprue per customer. Which isn't even for every customer you have(world eater model isn't going to be of interest to imperium, eldar, tau, tyranid, ork or even many chaos players).
Joan is made of metal DESIGNED for small print runs(like special characters) while Kharn is from matel that is pretty much designed to be anti-small print runs. Joan costs LESS to produce than Kharn. Surprise surprise it costs less. Even if GW didn't put any GW extra Joan would cost less. Unless GW somehow like 100x their customer base.
If you can sell few dozen Joan's you have recoupped production expenses basically. Designer's salary of course is another thing. Few hundred's wouldn't even make notable dent in production expenses(salary of designer excluded) of Kharn...
The funny thing is that Plastic, along with FinecrapTM where both implemented to bring the costs of producing the figures down and to thus allow the models to be sold at a lower price, and yet for some weird reason the prices of GW's products continue to rise again and again. Kharn should, in theory, be pricing in at around £6 to £8 at the very most, though in all honesty the detailing is not good enough to warrant that, but even so the material and production costs do not add up. Joan is a metal model, cast from a far more expensive substance in a process that is far more costly and using moulds that will wear out far faster and yet CB still manages to turn over a profit. Kharn is a plastic model, cast in a cheaper material using a cheaper production method and moulds that are far hardier and longer lasting, and yet he manages to come in at over 3 times the price? Something is most certainly wrong there.
You also pointed out that Kharn, as a named character, will not sell as many models as a generic HQ unit, a valid point I will give you that, and that this is a good enough excuse for him to price in at such a stupendous amount of money when compared to Joan. This is inherently wrong, once again Joan is also a named HQ for a subfaction of a faction (as is Kharn). She will not sell as well as, say, a Knight blister or a Remote pack, but still CB manages quite happily to turn over a profit with her and her far pricer production costs. So if the whole "named special snowflake" label is not a valid reason to hike the pricing on a single model up vastly then what is?
Yes plastic costs less than metal but molds cost crapload more than metal molds that are basically free. Metal is CHEAPER than plastic for small print runs. How hard this simple concept is to grasp? If you have print run of 100 models metal is LOT CHEAPER than plastic to produce. Plastic is cheap for stuff you sell tons. Basic troops. The stuff you expect to sell many many many boxes to single customer and preferably to many many customers. Maybe even needing more than 1 sprue per box. It comes very expensive however when you sell only 1 sprue per customer. Which isn't even for every customer you have(world eater model isn't going to be of interest to imperium, eldar, tau, tyranid, ork or even many chaos players).
Joan is made of metal DESIGNED for small print runs(like special characters) while Kharn is from matel that is pretty much designed to be anti-small print runs. Joan costs LESS to produce than Kharn. Surprise surprise it costs less. Even if GW didn't put any GW extra Joan would cost less. Unless GW somehow like 100x their customer base.
If you can sell few dozen Joan's you have recoupped production expenses basically. Designer's salary of course is another thing. Few hundred's wouldn't even make notable dent in production expenses(salary of designer excluded) of Kharn...
Which raises the question why GW decided to produce single-pose character models in hard-plastic?
Convenience would be my guess. Same model design platform and rapid prototyping type affair. If a Studio Member can design Mook Squad #39583, they can design a special character.
It also suggests something about their confidence in their sales volumes. Only suggests though, not as if I or anyone else outside of GW's bean counters would have any actual data on that.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Cruentus wrote: I took my son to an LGS, as he wanted to buy some models with his allowance and holiday money. His words: "GW miniatures sure are expensive." He is 8. He was most disappointed that he couldn't find anything "cool" in the $15 range. He still bought 2 characters, but I could tell it pained him. I can see him moving to historicals soon. LoL
The guy that runs my FLGS had the same criticism. He finds it hard to sell GW to the younger crowd because there's nothing in the 'pocket money price point' anymore. Used to be you could pick up a single character for $15au or a 2-3 miniature blister for $25-$30au, but now it's rare to find anything below $50au.
This. I dont but new gw stuff much anymore but i wanted to add to my eldar. I got a 25 USD gift card and went to the website. There was like almost nothing i could get. Especially because every single phoenix lord seems out of stock for the US. WTF you just released the codex?
For $25 you can get a lot from other companies. Plus i really like trying out other rules.
Haven’t read much of the convo to this point, apologies. I’ve simultaneously considered their prices a ripoff and yet still bought them for the past 20 years. The difference is that for the past few years I only buy stuff above $30 U.S. from eBay, used (~50% off) or new at a discount.
I’m a bit of a fool, I suppose, as even with (or because of) the discounts, I have so many unassembled models, it’s ridiculous. I don’t really care for other companies’ products, and don’t play AoS or any other GW games. 40k is and will probably always be my only interest, wargaming-wise.
Legio Suturvora 2000 points (painted)
Daemonhunters 1000 points (painted)
Flesh Tearers 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '02 52nd; Balt GT '05 16th
Kabal of the Tortured Soul 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '08 85th; Mechanicon '09 12th
Greenwing 1000 points (painted) - Adepticon Team Tourny 2013
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
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