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Dandelion wrote:
I tried to look up "XV 8 commander" but this is all I found:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/searchResults?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=-14736544295679261&qty=&sorting=&view=&Ntt=XV8+commander

Look at that, even the description for the Crisis team doesn't say you can make a commander. Yet, it has rules in the codex. It's almost as if GW expects you to build it from the existing kit. But no that can't be right. GW clearly doesn't want that...

Wow, that's really interesting. Tell me, what do the instructions and artwork say on the box for the Crisis kit? Does it say you can build a Commander?! No way!

^ Pretty much that.

As much as we love to harp on about converting things...it accomplishes nothing. Sure, They added Lieutenants and Exalted Champions...but all those are are Captains and Chaos Lords, 1 tier lower - easily represented by the same models. Essentially they exist for smaller games where a Captain or Chaos Lord might be a bit too pricey to fit.

The others - not only are they mentioned in the descriptions of their respective 'box' units...they're really no different save a paint job.

And even then that's not 100% - as they've since produced a model for a Tau Commander (2 in fact, 4 if you treat the Farsight variants as versions) since the original 'build it from the box'.

The Orks are...troublesome. Because even though their range is mostly plastic it has some very worrying flaws and gaps.

Their CORE HQ choice exists as metal, metal, OOP starter box plastic or plastic forced into a box with extra.

You might complain that the Terminator Captain and Chaplain are the same - but you can easily buy the DW variants of the same models to get the character. There is no alternative source for a plastic Warboss save that damn box.

Then Orks have...some odd finecast units (though perhaps not to the scale of Eldar suffering - Aspects are a mess and will be a mess to convert over as no other army essentially has that many specialist units and they really are fond of 2-in-1 plastic kits which isn't feasible for the Aspects).

And then some of their plastics units are either OOP (Deffkoptas) or downright ancient - Traks and Warbuggies.

Orks need a lot of gaps to be plugged - and to be honest I can see them being the 'last' of the initial replacement codex wave to allow for GW to do a biggish release and plug these gaps.

As much as Sisters players love to complain about their range - at least your range is pretty complete. You complain about the age - well, half your range is newer than about half the CSM range so...

So this is a problem with what's on the box and not in the box? Changing the directions is the easiest thing to do.

Dandelion wrote:
So this is a problem with what's on the box and not in the box? Changing the directions is the easiest thing to do.

OK so if and when they do it I guess I'll be able to field Meganobz as Megaboss. Till then, no such luck.

Thoughts on the rest of the models that don't exist? No Big Mek? No character on bike...

Dandelion wrote:
I tried to look up "XV 8 commander" but this is all I found:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/searchResults?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=-14736544295679261&qty=&sorting=&view=&Ntt=XV8+commander

Look at that, even the description for the Crisis team doesn't say you can make a commander. Yet, it has rules in the codex. It's almost as if GW expects you to build it from the existing kit. But no that can't be right. GW clearly doesn't want that...

I could help you with that by pointing out the XV8 Commander option is a Legacy option to accomodate for an existing model from 4th edition.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Thoughts on the rest of the models that don't exist? No Big Mek? No character on bike...

Orks might end up getting a release similar to the Death Guard in the sense that they get a lot of single-frame mono-pose plastic blister pack releases. So they'll get a Big Mek, a Warboss, and a few odds and ends. Anything bigger (like a Mek or Dok on a bike) will go the way of the Dodo.

Of course, that in and of itself is a double-edged sword, because those single-frame minis have gone from being a great way of getting cheap character models out there to being an albatross around the rules writers throats. Perfect example is this fella. That's all he can get unless you happen to own this guy, and even then that's all the options he can get. Two different bolters, a plasma pistol, a fist or a sword. Nothing else, because there is no other "Primaris Captain" model. You can't even take a sword and pistol, it's just Gun 1, Gun 2, Gun 1 + Sword, Gun 2 + Sword, or replace all with Plasma/Fist.

I liked this thread more when it was about codex releases instead of whatever is going on now. :(

 daedalus wrote:
I liked this thread more when it was about codex releases instead of whatever is going on now. :(

it just degenerates into whatever about the codex of the day/week.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Let me help you out bro, maybe then you'll get it;

She's not your bro, bro.
Also weren't you the one telling us about how much more likely Orks were to have new model releases that Sisters because they were so much more popular? Are you now arguing that they get no model options? Confusing.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You see how there's no model that comes up?

Completely and utterly irrelevant to the idea that you can't use it to represent a warboss, and you know it.

I'm not your "bro". Apparently, I'm just a better, more experienced 40k hobbyist than you, because I know what the feth WYSIWYG means.

Feth, man, don't you know the long, LONG history of looted vehicles being used to represent trukks and other Ork vehicles? Orks are THE most customizable faction visually. I'm not arguing that Orks don't need a miniature update. I'm just saying your hyperbole is completely and utterly farcical, the idea that you can't use a mega armored nob as a Warboss in Mega Armor goes against everything that this hobby's represented for decades.

text removed.

 Melissia wrote:
Feth, man, don't you know the long, LONG history of looted vehicles being used to represent trukks and other Ork vehicles? Orks are THE most customizable faction visually. I'm not arguing that Orks don't need a miniature update. I'm just saying your hyperbole is completely and utterly farcical, the idea that you can't use a mega armored nob as a Warboss in Mega Armor goes against everything that this hobby's represented for decades.

You seem to be going about this backwards Mel.

This isn't about not being able to use the Meganobz as a Warboss in Mega-Armour - of course you can, the idea that you can't is silly - but it's more a case of that GW does not make a Mega-Armoured Warboss miniature, so are just as likely to remove it from the rules as they are to release a new miniature to cover that option when they do the new Codex.

Do I personally believe that they would remove it from the rules? Of course not! That would, again, be silly. But this is the modern reality of GW, where no model = no rules, so things might (and will) vanish when a new Codex comes around no matter how easy it is to kitbash them (again, Deathwatch wargear restrictions are basically the poster child for this inane nonsense).

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Here's what Orks are lacking according to the GW store;

We don't have a Warboss in Mega Armour model excluding Ghaz. Are they going to remove it from the codex?

We don't have a Warboss with Power Klaw model excluding Grukk. As above, are they to be removed from dex?

We only have a metal Warboss with Big Choppa.

We don't have a Warboss on Bike model excluding FW Zhadsnark.

We don't have a Big Mek on Bike model.

We don't have a Painboy on Bike model.

We don't have a Big Mek without the Shokk Attack Gun model.

Surely we're due an update on some of these.

1) Can use the mega nobz kit
2) Can use the Nobz kit
3) Can use the Nobz kit
4) Can use the Warbike kit
5) No kit
6) No kit
7) You do have a regular mek that might count, though I'm not sure.

So that's 3 units that will most likely be dropped unless Orks get new kits at release.

As an aside, I do hope GW incorporates future HQs in bigger squads like they did for Custodes just so that we can get more variety in poses.

So long as we are talking about orks, I'd like to point out that the nobs are stil on 25mm bases, same with lootas, burnas and the top heavy storm boys.



It's time we transitioned to 32's like every other non-human sized army, and tankbustas/commandos double plastic kit would be appreciated. While I agree conversions are the cornerstone of the Ork look and hobby, I would also like to see a versatile war-boss in plastic that isn't Grukk.

I haven't collected/painted orks since 5th edition, but if they came out with a new boyz box I would be all in. (Love the old box, but it's showing its age imo)

Hopefully you get new wartraks and buggies before new boyz again though.
Kind of think all the boyz should be on 32mms too, though if they were to redo the nobz as well they'd scale creep them to 40mms.

Dandelion wrote:

1) Can use the mega nobz kit
2) Can use the Nobz kit
3) Can use the Nobz kit
4) Can use the Warbike kit
5) No kit
6) No kit
7) You do have a regular mek that might count, though I'm not sure.

1) Conversion, no official model, not guaranteed to survive (Biker Chaos Lords and Sorcerers would like to remind you they existed).
2) Conversion, official model only has the Power Klaw. The Eldar Autarch and the messy FAQ gakstorm that followed would like to say hello.
3) Doesn't address the point made. Plus Nob scale is like me telling you to use a Tyranid Warrior for missing options for a Hive Tyrant.
4) Conversion, no official model, not guaranteed to survive (Remember the Biker Chaos Lords?)
5) You've just proved his point.
6) Again!
7) It might count but it's still pretty crappy. Imagine SM only had the Techmarine option from the cannon and no other Techmarine options....that's what Orks get now.

 n0t_u wrote:
Hopefully you get new wartraks and buggies before new boyz again though.
Kind of think all the boyz should be on 32mms too, though if they were to redo the nobz as well they'd scale creep them to 40mms.

Indeed, I have 50+ boys painted and the most frustrating part was painting the bottom of the boot that was handing off of the base edge.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

1) Can use the mega nobz kit
2) Can use the Nobz kit
3) Can use the Nobz kit
4) Can use the Warbike kit
5) No kit
6) No kit
7) You do have a regular mek that might count, though I'm not sure.

1) Conversion, no official model, not guaranteed to survive (Biker Chaos Lords and Sorcerers would like to remind you they existed).
2) Conversion, official model only has the Power Klaw. The Eldar Autarch and the messy FAQ gakstorm that followed would like to say hello.
3) Doesn't address the point made. Plus Nob scale is like me telling you to use a Tyranid Warrior for missing options for a Hive Tyrant.
4) Conversion, no official model, not guaranteed to survive (Remember the Biker Chaos Lords?)
5) You've just proved his point.
6) Again!
7) It might count but it's still pretty crappy. Imagine SM only had the Techmarine option from the cannon and no other Techmarine options....that's what Orks get now.

First off, I am not trying to prove him wrong. I am trying to discuss whether certain units will be carried over assuming no new kits are made.

GW's policy, as it seems to me, is that if you can buy any ONE kit and build any particular unit (gear included), then that unit gets rules. Those "conversions" don't require any "converting", you just declare that the model you made from the box is in fact a warboss. You wouldn't argue that XV8 commanders are conversions, would you?
So, if I were to hazard a guess, the first 4 options listed will stay while the last 3 will go away. (unless you get new kits)

Besides, I never claimed Orks were in a good spot model wise. They do need new kits and updated models, but it is a bit much to say that all those options will go away. At least not yet.

Dandelion wrote:
1) Can use the mega nobz kit
2) Can use the Nobz kit
3) Can use the Nobz kit
4) Can use the Warbike kit

You continue to miss the point...

I hope Orks get some new kits. They need some.

This thread really needs some Dark Eldar info to chew on.

Well they're next week, right? I'm sure each of them will get some variation on the special rules all the other armies will get, and their leaders will get new Auras that either give re-rolls, +1/-1 to something, or cause mortal wounds.

The Codices are paint by numbers by now. All we can do is take bets as to whether this book will have a lot of competing army special rules, or one that gives your army -1 To Hit and a bunch that no one ever takes because of that first one.

 Melissia wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
There's nothing in there that explicitly says you can't, and decades of tradition of kitbashing Ork miniatures to make them look unique and interesting that says you can.

Actually, no, that is your rule. As long as it meets WYSIWYG and is distinguishable from the other MANz, there is NOTHING wrong with making them in to a mega armored warboss. Your ridiculous, irrational hyperbole aside.

Problem is you are approaching this from rational pro-kitbash view. GW is working on opposite view.

Sure you CAN kitbash warlord with warboss from mega armoured nob(though warlord should be significantly bigger...). Problem is without specific kit on sale GW will remove it from codex so you are stuck with using index rules for it. Hopefully that is still good enough that it's worth taking over codex options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You see how there's no model that comes up?

Completely and utterly irrelevant to the idea that you can't use it to represent a warboss, and you know it.

I'm not your "bro". Apparently, I'm just a better, more experienced 40k hobbyist than you, because I know what the feth WYSIWYG means.

Feth, man, don't you know the long, LONG history of looted vehicles being used to represent trukks and other Ork vehicles? Orks are THE most customizable faction visually. I'm not arguing that Orks don't need a miniature update. I'm just saying your hyperbole is completely and utterly farcical, the idea that you can't use a mega armored nob as a Warboss in Mega Armor goes against everything that this hobby's represented for decades.

But the problem is you are going to lose those options you CAN kitbash when GW drops them. Just look at how much stuff they have dropped from codex if they don't have specific kit. That's a HUGE list. And ork index isn't all that powerful now so you think those options will be all that competive with index rules when you are stuck with them when codex drops with power boosted? If warboss on mega armour would be on codex it would get power boost. But as without new kit it will be left in index you are stuck with index rules.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well they're next week, right? I'm sure each of them will get some variation on the special rules all the other armies will get, and their leaders will get new Auras that either give re-rolls, +1/-1 to something, or cause mortal wounds.

The Codices are paint by numbers by now. All we can do is take bets as to whether this book will have a lot of competing army special rules, or one that gives your army -1 To Hit and a bunch that no one ever takes because of that first one.

Quite possible yeah. I see an outside chance they might give them some stacking morale offense like the "freakshow" lists from 7th.

Most interested in seeing what they do with the Covens side of things.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
1) Can use the mega nobz kit
2) Can use the Nobz kit
3) Can use the Nobz kit
4) Can use the Warbike kit

You continue to miss the point...

You believe GW will phase out those options because a dedicated single model kit doesn't exist. I think they'll keep them because existing kits already provide those options. My belief is based on the existence of crisis commanders, grandmaster dreadknights, and custodes shield captains.

Worrying about them phasing out these HQs is premature since we don't really know which options will get axed, nor do we know if Orks will get a new kit (or several).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Sure you CAN kitbash warlord with warboss from mega armoured nob(though warlord should be significantly bigger...). Problem is without specific kit on sale GW will remove it from codex so you are stuck with using index rules for it. Hopefully that is still good enough that it's worth taking over codex options.

It's not a kitbash if you're only using one kit. You take the mega nobz kit, you make a nob, and you declare it's a warboss. Done. There's no defined metric for how big or ornamented a warboss should be.

It's really not hard to understand GW's reasoning: If you can make the HQ from a SINGLE kit, then you get the HQ as a unit, with wargear restricted to the kit in question.

Dandelion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Here's what Orks are lacking according to the GW store;

We don't have a Warboss in Mega Armour model excluding Ghaz. Are they going to remove it from the codex?

We don't have a Warboss with Power Klaw model excluding Grukk. As above, are they to be removed from dex?

We only have a metal Warboss with Big Choppa.

We don't have a Warboss on Bike model excluding FW Zhadsnark.

We don't have a Big Mek on Bike model.

We don't have a Painboy on Bike model.

We don't have a Big Mek without the Shokk Attack Gun model.

Surely we're due an update on some of these.

1) Can use the mega nobz kit
2) Can use the Nobz kit
3) Can use the Nobz kit
4) Can use the Warbike kit
5) No kit
6) No kit
7) You do have a regular mek that might count, though I'm not sure.

So that's 3 units that will most likely be dropped unless Orks get new kits at release.

As an aside, I do hope GW incorporates future HQs in bigger squads like they did for Custodes just so that we can get more variety in poses.

Using nobs as warbosses looks really stupid and confusing.

Dandelion wrote:
You believe GW will phase out those options because a dedicated single model kit doesn't exist. I think they'll keep them because existing kits already provide those options. My belief is based on the existence of crisis commanders, grandmaster dreadknights, and custodes shield captains.

The Shield Captain is a terrible example, because they have specifically said that the kit, or rather kits, all four of them, come with the specific parts to make Shield Captains.

And I don't believe that all of those things will be axed. I believe some of them will get new releases, and the remainder will be axed. I also believe that the new kits that come out will be sparse in options, creating a situation where a Warboss will only be able to get 2-3 weapons because that's all the kit has.

That's the sad reality of no model = no rule.

Now it is entirely possible that they will repurpose existing kits to make new units (like the Ogryn Bodyguard in the Guard 'Dex), so they could say parts X, Y and Z when put together make a Mega-Armoured Warboss, but we don't know that. Until then we can only go on what we've seen, and we've seen far more removals and restrictions than we have Dreadknight Grandmaster entries.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
You believe GW will phase out those options because a dedicated single model kit doesn't exist. I think they'll keep them because existing kits already provide those options. My belief is based on the existence of crisis commanders, grandmaster dreadknights, and custodes shield captains.

The Shield Captain is a terrible example, because they have specifically said that the kit, or rather kits, all four of them, come with the specific parts to make Shield Captains.

And I don't believe that all of those things will be axed. I believe some of them will get new releases, and the remainder will be axed. I also believe that the new kits that come out will be sparse in options, creating a situation where a Warboss will only be able to get 2-3 weapons because that's all the kit has.

That's the sad reality of no model = no rule.

Now it is entirely possible that they will repurpose existing kits to make new units (like the Ogryn Bodyguard in the Guard 'Dex), so they could say parts X, Y and Z when put together make a Mega-Armoured Warboss, but we don't know that. Until then we can only go on what we've seen, and we've seen far more removals and restrictions than we have Dreadknight Grandmaster entries.

I'm hoping the no model = no rules will end up being a good thing for the game. It should force GW to actually produce kits. Though, in the interim many unsupported units will be removed.

text removed.

Reds8n

The topic here is codex releases.

Not what type of 40k model is/isn't available or suitable for conversion. Please stay on topic.

Dandelion wrote:


I'm hoping the no model = no rules will end up being a good thing for the game. It should force GW to actually produce kits. Though, in the interim many unsupported units will be removed.

My issue is what they apply as a baseline - as I've pointed out earlier there have been cases where models exist that AREN'T conversions or made from other kits...and no rules.
And then there's cases where no model exists and they get rules.
Then there's the mess of what's allowed as upgrades, wargear etc. going by the model.

Back on track - again, as I pointed out earlier...the current Ork situation makes them a prime candidate for a last release (at least for the initial replacement codexes) - especially if the rumours of Armageddon being a summer release are true - they can dedicate several releases to Orks, they can throw in some Daemon and Khorne kits and do a quick summer splash for World Eaters and they can throw some IG gaps in...plus I figure this is where we'll see Sly Marbo's proper release.

But with the coming codexes...

Really not too sure what they're going to do with Harlequins. They already had a very small amount of units - so odds of us seeing them get access to DE or Craftworld vehicles (Flyers in particular) anyone?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Dandelion wrote:


I'm hoping the no model = no rules will end up being a good thing for the game. It should force GW to actually produce kits. Though, in the interim many unsupported units will be removed.

My issue is what they apply as a baseline - as I've pointed out earlier there have been cases where models exist that AREN'T conversions or made from other kits...and no rules.
And then there's cases where no model exists and they get rules.
Then there's the mess of what's allowed as upgrades, wargear etc. going by the model.

Back on track - again, as I pointed out earlier...the current Ork situation makes them a prime candidate for a last release (at least for the initial replacement codexes) - especially if the rumours of Armageddon being a summer release are true - they can dedicate several releases to Orks, they can throw in some Daemon and Khorne kits and do a quick summer splash for World Eaters and they can throw some IG gaps in...plus I figure this is where we'll see Sly Marbo's proper release.

But with the coming codexes...

Really not too sure what they're going to do with Harlequins. They already had a very small amount of units - so odds of us seeing them get access to DE or Craftworld vehicles (Flyers in particular) anyone?

I don't expect much coming from Harlequins maybe 1-2 new units top like a new HQ like mimes or a Great Harlequin model as much.
In the other Hand they may Create the *Avatar of Cegorach* if keep moving a bit the lore showing them getting closer to the final Battle against Slaanesh but wouldn't expect it until Slaanesh Demons are updated.