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In light of the Death Guard leaks today, I can say now I'm a bit worried. They have access to a lot of non-psychic phase mortal wounds (such as Eruption of Filth and Blight Bombardment). That will hurt quite a bit. Fleshmowers are also pretty potent and for 135 points seem like they'd bring down 2 Terminators per-combat, on average.

DP's with malefic talons also increased in power, with one DP being able to be S8 while also lowering toughness by 1 due to their new doctrine-esque ability. End result, that DP is wounding Custodes infantry on 2's with a flat 2 damage weapon.

Mortarion is also more fearsome than originally expected now that we see his warlord traits. He'll be T8 with -1 damage, a 5+++ and shuts off auras within 3" (meaning our HQ's have to hang back outside of combat to buff the combatants inside combat).

The Blightspawn with his flamer is also more deadly. With a Pathogen he can re-roll number of hits and get a permanent +1S.

I do not think DG is overpowered by any means, but our particular match-up against them is no longer about even. We are decided underdogs.

Well, according to the latest links, there can only be a SINGLE dp Per list now, so that's a big relief, also they completely gutted chaff spam, so our two biggest threats went away. As for Psyker defense, we have more than enough counters for those. And if you let their pskers suvive too long, I would tell you, don't do that.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well, according to the latest links, there can only be a SINGLE dp Per list now, so that's a big relief, also they completely gutted chaff spam, so our two biggest threats went away. As for Psyker defense, we have more than enough counters for those. And if you let their pskers suvive too long, I would tell you, don't do that.

I was specifically referring to non-psychic MW. They have a lot of them.

I think DP's are just one per detachment, not one per army.

Audustum wrote:
In light of the Death Guard leaks today, I can say now I'm a bit worried. They have access to a lot of non-psychic phase mortal wounds (such as Eruption of Filth and Blight Bombardment). That will hurt quite a bit. Fleshmowers are also pretty potent and for 135 points seem like they'd bring down 2 Terminators per-combat, on average.

DP's with malefic talons also increased in power, with one DP being able to be S8 while also lowering toughness by 1 due to their new doctrine-esque ability. End result, that DP is wounding Custodes infantry on 2's with a flat 2 damage weapon.

Mortarion is also more fearsome than originally expected now that we see his warlord traits. He'll be T8 with -1 damage, a 5+++ and shuts off auras within 3" (meaning our HQ's have to hang back outside of combat to buff the combatants inside combat).

The Blightspawn with his flamer is also more deadly. With a Pathogen he can re-roll number of hits and get a permanent +1S.

I do not think DG is overpowered by any means, but our particular match-up against them is no longer about even. We are decided underdogs.

That’s actually not how that WL trait works. It says units within 3” of the warlord do not get the benefit of auras from models from that unit’s army. So he doesn’t actually turn off auras like the AdMech copters do, he just prevents units within 3” of himself from benefitting from them.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Audustum wrote:
In light of the Death Guard leaks today, I can say now I'm a bit worried. They have access to a lot of non-psychic phase mortal wounds (such as Eruption of Filth and Blight Bombardment). That will hurt quite a bit. Fleshmowers are also pretty potent and for 135 points seem like they'd bring down 2 Terminators per-combat, on average.

DP's with malefic talons also increased in power, with one DP being able to be S8 while also lowering toughness by 1 due to their new doctrine-esque ability. End result, that DP is wounding Custodes infantry on 2's with a flat 2 damage weapon.

Mortarion is also more fearsome than originally expected now that we see his warlord traits. He'll be T8 with -1 damage, a 5+++ and shuts off auras within 3" (meaning our HQ's have to hang back outside of combat to buff the combatants inside combat).

The Blightspawn with his flamer is also more deadly. With a Pathogen he can re-roll number of hits and get a permanent +1S.

I do not think DG is overpowered by any means, but our particular match-up against them is no longer about even. We are decided underdogs.

That’s actually not how that WL trait works. It says units within 3” of the warlord do not get the benefit of auras from models from that unit’s army. So he doesn’t actually turn off auras like the AdMech copters do, he just prevents units within 3” of himself from benefitting from them.

Ugh, that's even worse for us.

Is there any value now to re-considering the base GW contemptor with Multi-melta as a cheap (Real money) alternative AT-Dread?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The points nerf to allarus had to happen. They would have been too good with the new NWSWF secondary.

A unit of 10 with spears at 650 pts just had to have a single one live to get you 5 points.

Now that same unit is 700pts, which puts them more in line with our other heavy lifting options.

Guard going down is great, bikes going down is great, and we can only hope that the vex gets his flag for free (as he was overcosted).

Also officially the ares/orion can be deployed on any map and not be useless for a turn. We had already come to that consensus here on dakka, but many did not agree.



On the flip side, our tanks get yet another nerf, not being able to use Vengence of the Machine Spirit strat anymore (its only useable by Ven Land Raiders). Pretty much killed them honestly. With the loss of rerolls incoming with our new book they are grossly inefficient in the current state of the game. Being able to shoot the main gun after getting blown up was really their only saving grace.

"Nerfs to Allarus had to happen considering how GW is mega buffing everyone else's terminators" Ummm... what mate?

Releasing the lions for NWSWF is a hilariously niche tactic. Because you are taking your best hammer and combat unit that you have, by necessity, spent a good chunk of points on, and you need to, you know, take objectives and win the game and making them extremely inefficient and weak. For a whole 5 points. *Anime Wow*

Tiberias wrote:
Huh, I did not expect them to make dawneagle bikes cheaper, but I'll take it.

Also, am I missing something or is the new "while we stand we fight" secondary really good now with a large blob of allarus termis that you can then split up with unleash the lions? Correct me if I'm wrong here but after you split them up, you could just hide one single terminator of that original big unit and still score the 5 points...isnt that bonkers good?

For a whole 5 points.

Guys, 5 points.

By ruining the combat efficiency of your hammer unit.

DO NOT DO THIS. You will lose all your games.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
You can run a spearhead with 20 allarus, 5 aquillons, a termy captain, and a vexilla (assuming the banner is free) or Greyfax.


It plays similar to the all shield guard list (which also got better).

Unleash the lions and hide. 20 allarus terminators hiding out of LOS will be basically unkillable as one man units.

WOO you get 15 points now. Too bad ya ain't killing gak by doing this and lose your games hard.

Audustum wrote:
In light of the Death Guard leaks today, I can say now I'm a bit worried. They have access to a lot of non-psychic phase mortal wounds (such as Eruption of Filth and Blight Bombardment). That will hurt quite a bit. Fleshmowers are also pretty potent and for 135 points seem like they'd bring down 2 Terminators per-combat, on average.

DP's with malefic talons also increased in power, with one DP being able to be S8 while also lowering toughness by 1 due to their new doctrine-esque ability. End result, that DP is wounding Custodes infantry on 2's with a flat 2 damage weapon.

Mortarion is also more fearsome than originally expected now that we see his warlord traits. He'll be T8 with -1 damage, a 5+++ and shuts off auras within 3" (meaning our HQ's have to hang back outside of combat to buff the combatants inside combat).

The Blightspawn with his flamer is also more deadly. With a Pathogen he can re-roll number of hits and get a permanent +1S.

I do not think DG is overpowered by any means, but our particular match-up against them is no longer about even. We are decided underdogs.

I said earlier deathguard were looking to be a hard counter to us from the previews. So, yes. They gonna kick the poop out of us.

Now, that said, with their full rule reveal, wellp, DG using some of their plagues are broken AF. The movement and reroll denial ones for sure.

@Stratigo

Everything this guy said, I didn't quote you because your post was massive as is.

But I'm, really sick of the rubber band Terminators we have. It literally feels month to month with these guys, and it's always they are trash or they are better than Aquilons, nothing inbetween. Really confused as to what GW expects our TERMINATOR CUSTODES units to be when the Primaris and Deathguard units get slightly lesser but just as hard hitting if not moreso, for roughly half the cost.

lmao I can tell from your reply you arent actually doing well in competitive 9th.

15 points is huge considering your opponent cant get any good secondaries against you and primary caps out at 45.


But, your right that it does weaken our already subpar offence.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
lmao I can tell from your reply you arent actually doing well in competitive 9th.

15 points is huge considering your opponent cant get any good secondaries against you and primary caps out at 45.


But, your right that it does weaken our already subpar offence.

I get stratigos point, breaking up your allarus and hiding one model would only amount to 5 points of that secondary, though those 5 points are almost guaranteed. You'd have to keep your other 2 most expensive units alive as well to get 15
And if those other two units are also allarus squads....lets be honest, you probably won't get to play unleash the lions on all of them.

I disagree with his point however that if you do it for one squad it's a bad idea because it breaks up you hammer unit. If you play a big squad of allarus and deepstrike them turn two via teleport Homer or dread host deepstrike, you can't unleash them anyway. So that turn they are going to wreck something as a squad. Unleashing them the next turn and hiding one model of the squad can be a decent strategy imo depending on the match up.
Though for this strategy to work, it also largely depends on what your other two most expensive units are, because I don't think going 3 big squads of allarus is a good idea in general.

In the list i posted (which may or may not be the best way to take advantage of WWSWF), I had 2 units of 5 allarus and a unit of 5 aquillons that would have been the 3 units for the secondary.

You would start one unit of 5 on the board and immediately split them up, and have the other 2 units off the board (if dread host). If not dread host i would keep the second unit on the board and running up a flank.

Your opponent, knowing that they were worth points to you would then have to focus a chunk of his force to that flank and try to deal with them, leaving alot of his kill power away from the opposite side of the table.

Turn 2 comes around and you have options. You can either try to counter smash your opponents main force (that went for your second allarus unit) by dropping your aquillons on them, or go to the weak side, knowing the aquillons would wipe that side up and be hard to kill by the end of the game.

The second units of allarus could also split up (because they shouldnt have been completely wiped out in one turn between Auramite and steel and arcane genetic alchemy).

So now your opponent has to either deal with your whole army at close quarters for 4 turns, or reposition over the rest of the game to try and reclaim a table side you took (while leaving you 10 potential points alive).

 Eihnlazer wrote:
In the list i posted (which may or may not be the best way to take advantage of WWSWF), I had 2 units of 5 allarus and a unit of 5 aquillons that would have been the 3 units for the secondary.

You would start one unit of 5 on the board and immediately split them up, and have the other 2 units off the board (if dread host). If not dread host i would keep the second unit on the board and running up a flank.

Your opponent, knowing that they were worth points to you would then have to focus a chunk of his force to that flank and try to deal with them, leaving alot of his kill power away from the opposite side of the table.

Turn 2 comes around and you have options. You can either try to counter smash your opponents main force (that went for your second allarus unit) by dropping your aquillons on them, or go to the weak side, knowing the aquillons would wipe that side up and be hard to kill by the end of the game.

The second units of allarus could also split up (because they shouldnt have been completely wiped out in one turn between Auramite and steel and arcane genetic alchemy).

So now your opponent has to either deal with your whole army at close quarters for 4 turns, or reposition over the rest of the game to try and reclaim a table side you took (while leaving you 10 potential points alive).

I mean, that's a cool idea and all, but wouldn't such a list be rather one sided? I mean you have one secondary covered, but you have to consistently also score other secondaries and primaries. You are not mobile and you don't have any anti tank fire power or long range firer power. Sure your guys are tough, especially with stratagem support, but would that be a well rounded list? I'm honestly not sure, but like I said, I think it's a cool idea. If you personally have the models for it, I'd love to hear how it performed.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
lmao I can tell from your reply you arent actually doing well in competitive 9th.

15 points is huge considering your opponent cant get any good secondaries against you and primary caps out at 45.


But, your right that it does weaken our already subpar offence.

If you are taking three allarus squads... well your army has already failed at the conceptual stage for competitive gaming, but if you are doing that with the intention to unleash the lions on them, you are also failing on the table because it is a bad plan.


Unleashing ONE squad, which is all you should be taking most of the time, is 5 points. For neutering your hammer unit. It is a bad idea except in niche scenarios. It DOES NOT justify a point hike.

don't take allarus, take aquillons, they're superior for actually winning games with

So, on another note. What is, just hypothetically, our most efficient way to kill mortarion now that he is even more of a monster than before.
I am not very good at math hammer, but I would argue that considering he is -1 dmg now, really hurts aquilons in dealing with him with their dmg2 fists. So, could a double fist telemon with eternal penitent punch him to death? I don't think so actually, at least not in one round. A bunch of bikes and try to do some chip dmg with a million hurricane bolter shots and then charge him? I don't know...

So how do we deal with him? Ignore him and play the mission? Can we even afford to do that considering that he can dish out a lot of mortals each turn and is really nasty in combat?

Tiberias wrote:
So, on another note. What is, just hypothetically, our most efficient way to kill mortarion now that he is even more of a monster than before.
I am not very good at math hammer, but I would argue that considering he is -1 dmg now, really hurts aquilons in dealing with him with their dmg2 fists. So, could a double fist telemon with eternal penitent punch him to death? I don't think so actually, at least not in one round. A bunch of bikes and try to do some chip dmg with a million hurricane bolter shots and then charge him? I don't know...

So how do we deal with him? Ignore him and play the mission? Can we even afford to do that considering that he can dish out a lot of mortals each turn and is really nasty in combat?

Death Guard is a hard counter, and mortarion is part of it.

I think I'd prefer bikes because of their inbuilt charge reroll and ability to get him from a distance. But Aquillons are probly the best mathmatically.

Or, most most likely, shooting him with an ares.

Tiberias wrote:
So, on another note. What is, just hypothetically, our most efficient way to kill mortarion now that he is even more of a monster than before.
I am not very good at math hammer, but I would argue that considering he is -1 dmg now, really hurts aquilons in dealing with him with their dmg2 fists. So, could a double fist telemon with eternal penitent punch him to death? I don't think so actually, at least not in one round. A bunch of bikes and try to do some chip dmg with a million hurricane bolter shots and then charge him? I don't know...

So how do we deal with him? Ignore him and play the mission? Can we even afford to do that considering that he can dish out a lot of mortals each turn and is really nasty in combat?

I don't think you can ignore him. His board presence is too big.

Aquillons only deal 1 damage to him. Out. MW are the most efficient way to hurt him and we've got about zip there so skip. It takes about 550 Hurricane Bolter shots to kill him (over 3k points of Jetbikes).

Slamming 3 Achillus into him might not be a bad idea. I don't like using planes to hit him because their volume of fire is too low.

stratigo wrote:

Tiberias wrote:
So, on another note. What is, just hypothetically, our most efficient way to kill mortarion now that he is even more of a monster than before.
I am not very good at math hammer, but I would argue that considering he is -1 dmg now, really hurts aquilons in dealing with him with their dmg2 fists. So, could a double fist telemon with eternal penitent punch him to death? I don't think so actually, at least not in one round. A bunch of bikes and try to do some chip dmg with a million hurricane bolter shots and then charge him? I don't know...

So how do we deal with him? Ignore him and play the mission? Can we even afford to do that considering that he can dish out a lot of mortals each turn and is really nasty in combat?

Death Guard is a hard counter, and mortarion is part of it.

I think I'd prefer bikes because of their inbuilt charge reroll and ability to get him from a distance. But Aquillons are probly the best mathmatically.

Or, most most likely, shooting him with an ares.

A rare case of the d3 dmg lances actually being better than flat 2dmg weapons.
Correct me if I'm wrong here but 60 hurricane bolter shots would do about 3 unsaved wounds on morty and that is before considering the 5+ feelnopain he still has. So yeah, weight of dice is a nice idea, but I don't see it working against him now that he is T8 also.
What about allarus with the strat to give them +1 to wound? Yes, you can and would do that on the aquilons also for sure, but with the castellan axes you have a chance to high roll on the dmg.

The best option against morty now is a VERY lucky Ares Gunship. If all the dice swing in their favor, the Ares is the only thing that can reliably drop him now, fast. Sorry to say it, but Morty is now basically a Shadowsword/Castellan Knight Level threat. HE's priority 1 for all competitive lists. Just his physical damage capability aside, Charging him is useless because he will usually fight first with that stupid ability. There is nothing short of a Custodes Aquillon squad of 5+ guys that can withstand 7 S16 AP4 D3+3 attacks. He will DELETE pretty much anything that tries to charge him. Better to go heavy long range. Storm cannons and up from max range. Ares now has to become the focus of our builds. We have knight level characters running around.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The best option against morty now is a VERY lucky Ares Gunship. If all the dice swing in their favor, the Ares is the only thing that can reliably drop him now, fast. Sorry to say it, but Morty is now basically a Shadowsword/Castellan Knight Level threat. HE's priority 1 for all competitive lists. Just his physical damage capability aside, Charging him is useless because he will usually fight first with that stupid ability. There is nothing short of a Custodes Aquillon squad of 5+ guys that can withstand 7 S16 AP4 D3+3 attacks. He will DELETE pretty much anything that tries to charge him. Better to go heavy long range. Storm cannons and up from max range. Ares now has to become the focus of our builds. We have knight level characters running around.

I honestly don't want to seem pessimistic or overly critical or anything, but I don't understand how the ares would do the trick either. Isn't it just too few shots against T8 and 4++?

Edit: I get you said the ares would have to be lucky, but aren't we talking astronomical here? What I am saying is, that if you tech in an ares when you play against death guard, I would argue that it won't make its points back most of the time.

Almost nothing drops mortarion in one turn. Like, it's literal titans that are capable of it.

He's going to be the heart of many a DG list because he is that hard to kill and has that much effect on the board. He's pretty brutal. And it'll be half a year to almost a year before he gets an adjustment.

He's still not even the best thing about new DG.

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The best option against morty now is a VERY lucky Ares Gunship. If all the dice swing in their favor, the Ares is the only thing that can reliably drop him now, fast. Sorry to say it, but Morty is now basically a Shadowsword/Castellan Knight Level threat. HE's priority 1 for all competitive lists. Just his physical damage capability aside, Charging him is useless because he will usually fight first with that stupid ability. There is nothing short of a Custodes Aquillon squad of 5+ guys that can withstand 7 S16 AP4 D3+3 attacks. He will DELETE pretty much anything that tries to charge him. Better to go heavy long range. Storm cannons and up from max range. Ares now has to become the focus of our builds. We have knight level characters running around.

I honestly don't want to seem pessimistic or overly critical or anything, but I don't understand how the ares would do the trick either. Isn't it just too few shots against T8 and 4++?

Edit: I get you said the ares would have to be lucky, but aren't we talking astronomical here? What I am saying is, that if you tech in an ares when you play against death guard, I would argue that it won't make its points back most of the time.

Well, I mean yeah, it's almost back to 1st turn losses of 8th edition here. Is the Ares cant shoot him with the main gun, and kill him with 1-3(2) shots of s14 ap4 d3+6, and he would have to fail his saves, we are pretty boned. Just do a low detachment with a Shadowsword? That can one shot him. I just feel like there is no point in charging him with his movement stopping aura. You pretty much have to kill him at range.

stratigo wrote:
Almost nothing drops mortarion in one turn. Like, it's literal titans that are capable of it.

He's going to be the heart of many a DG list because he is that hard to kill and has that much effect on the board. He's pretty brutal. And it'll be half a year to almost a year before he gets an adjustment.

He's still not even the best thing about new DG.

I mean, armies are figuring out ways. Ultramarines and Deathwatch seem able to down him with 3 units of Eradicators/Hellblasters next to Guilliman or a Watch Master. Not the worst thing in the world. Others are going to pop up too.

The problem is for us Custodes because Death Guard has been redesigned as something we hate. It's super tanky, like us, but does a lot of damage, not like us. It also has a lot of non-psychic MW which is extra bad for us.

I still think Achillus Dread shooting + charging is likely the best solution. You'll need Eternal Penitent on all 3.

From what I read, he has a 6-9 inch aura that halves all movement, so you would need a 12 to charge him at 6 inches, and that makes it practically impossible to charge him inside of 9 inches. The only clear way I can see is either he does -1 to all damage, so our d3 weapons are basically pointless unless we roll 3s, and even then we would need too many. Even the Aquilons flat damage fists are ugly up close to him and he will destroy the entire squad in a single turn of cc. I feel like large squads of bikes with missiles, then charge?

Clarification: The Droning specifically only halves the Movement Characteristic of affected models. It doesn't impact charges or advances.

Audustum wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Almost nothing drops mortarion in one turn. Like, it's literal titans that are capable of it.

He's going to be the heart of many a DG list because he is that hard to kill and has that much effect on the board. He's pretty brutal. And it'll be half a year to almost a year before he gets an adjustment.

He's still not even the best thing about new DG.

I mean, armies are figuring out ways. Ultramarines and Deathwatch seem able to down him with 3 units of Eradicators/Hellblasters next to Guilliman or a Watch Master. Not the worst thing in the world. Others are going to pop up too.

The problem is for us Custodes because Death Guard has been redesigned as something we hate. It's super tanky, like us, but does a lot of damage, not like us. It also has a lot of non-psychic MW which is extra bad for us.

I still think Achillus Dread shooting + charging is likely the best solution. You'll need Eternal Penitent on all 3.

So let me get this straight, you are suggesting to run 3 achillus in a list to down mortarion?! I'm in! That sounds freakin epic
Would be kind of a meme list, but I like it. How would you consistently deliver 3 achillus though?

Anyway, my best friend started his death guard army end of last year, so I assume I'll be facing mortarion soon enough.

Another thing that is a real bummer for me personally are venatari against death guard. I love those guys and I love running them against space marines with their dmg2 pistols... Well yeah, against death guard they don't seem that appealing anymore suddenly.
A lot of death guard players apparently were upset about losing the 5+++, but honestly an army wide -1 dmg is just as nasty...in some matchups even more so imo.

Honestly, with the multitude of melee abilities that DG have now, I am really not interested in playing them as anything other than a top WAAC list. The DG vs the Custodes match is going to be ugly, long, and boring, where our melee fights might last the entire game, and our non-existent psyker presence means we can't shut down their spells. No thanks, pass. I'll just wait till our codex comes out. There are already 5 DG players in my FLGS, and dear god the state of DG right now makes me salty.

Math hammer: how many Telemon Fist punches would it take to reliably down Morty now?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Honestly, with the multitude of melee abilities that DG have now, I am really not interested in playing them as anything other than a top WAAC list. The DG vs the Custodes match is going to be ugly, long, and boring, where our melee fights might last the entire game, and our non-existent psyker presence means we can't shut down their spells. No thanks, pass. I'll just wait till our codex comes out. There are already 5 DG players in my FLGS, and dear god the state of DG right now makes me salty.

Math hammer: how many Telemon Fist punches would it take to reliably down Morty now?

It doesn't look appealing to fight them, but I will hold of judgment until I actually had a match against them. Regarding the Telemon: again I am not good at doing quick-maffshammer, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think a double fist telemon with eternal penitent would do about 3 unsaved wounds on morty. So with them -1dmg thats 9dmg and then he still has his 5+ feelnopain...so he'll take what...6-7dmg in total? I love double fist telemons to death, but that's not a great showing. Even if morty would fail more saves than average, I am doubtful that a double fist telemon could down him in one turn.

Tiberias wrote:

Audustum wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Almost nothing drops mortarion in one turn. Like, it's literal titans that are capable of it.

He's going to be the heart of many a DG list because he is that hard to kill and has that much effect on the board. He's pretty brutal. And it'll be half a year to almost a year before he gets an adjustment.

He's still not even the best thing about new DG.

I mean, armies are figuring out ways. Ultramarines and Deathwatch seem able to down him with 3 units of Eradicators/Hellblasters next to Guilliman or a Watch Master. Not the worst thing in the world. Others are going to pop up too.

The problem is for us Custodes because Death Guard has been redesigned as something we hate. It's super tanky, like us, but does a lot of damage, not like us. It also has a lot of non-psychic MW which is extra bad for us.

I still think Achillus Dread shooting + charging is likely the best solution. You'll need Eternal Penitent on all 3.

So let me get this straight, you are suggesting to run 3 achillus in a list to down mortarion?! I'm in! That sounds freakin epic
Would be kind of a meme list, but I like it. How would you consistently deliver 3 achillus though?

Anyway, my best friend started his death guard army end of last year, so I assume I'll be facing mortarion soon enough.

Another thing that is a real bummer for me personally are venatari against death guard. I love those guys and I love running them against space marines with their dmg2 pistols... Well yeah, against death guard they don't seem that appealing anymore suddenly.
A lot of death guard players apparently were upset about losing the 5+++, but honestly an army wide -1 dmg is just as nasty...in some matchups even more so imo.

That's exactly what I was proposing.

Delivery method: Dread Host. 3D6, re-rolling charge with Eternal Penitent. As pointed out, Morty doesn't lower the charge range. He's also way too big and important on the frontlines to screen out for more than T1. Even screening on T2 the DG player is starting to cripple himself.

Due to delivery method, however, you should just put two Achillus because an Allarus Captain is the third since you can only Golden Light two Dreads. Put Twin Adrathic Destructors on both. The Captain gets Admonimortis (flat 3 damage) and Bane of Monsters (re-roll wounds against Vehicle/Monster). Math looks like this (leaving out Miasma of Pestilence):

8 shots of Twin Adrathic Destructor (combined both Dreads): Averages 1.73 damage on Morty (29% chance of 0).
4 shots of Dreadspear: Averages 1.30 damage (38% chance of 0).
2 shots of Castellan Axe: .22 average (80% chance of 0, but you might as well)
Ballistus Grenade Launcher: .11 average (90% chance of 0, but you might as well still)

Total shooting average: 3.36. Morty's down to about 15-16 on average, so some chip got through. Now we fight.

Achillus Melee is 6 attacks at S14 AP-3 1D3+3 damage base, hitting on 2's, wounding on 3's. Averages 4.44 damage on Morty (15% chance of 0, yes I took his -1 damage into account too). Multiply that by two and it's 8.88 damage. Pop Slayers of Nightmares on an Achillus though because it's 1CP and gives a boost (you can use it on Dreads too). With Slayers of Nightmares on one of the Achillus, that would add an extra two wounds to the total average pull, so about ~10 wounds from the two Achillus with Slayers.

Now to the Captain (save 1 CP to give the Captain a re-roll charge if you need it, puts him on the same reliability as the Dreads). He gets 5 attacks hitting on 2's, wounding on 3's re-rolling (Bane isn't an aura so Morty doesn't shut it off). He gets 2.5 damage average (14% chance of 0).

Total melee average: 12.5 damage.

Melee + shooting average: 15.86, rounding puts it at ~16. So 15-16 wounds from this three punch combo. It costs you 475 points and 6-7 CP so it's not a small investment, but you should be able to chip off the remaining 2-3 wounds of Morty's life from there (if we COULD get 3 Achillus on Morty it would increase the average to take him down).

If you change ONE Achillus to a Telemon, it reworks like this:

Telemon Shooting Average (double Caeustus):

4D3 Twin Plasma Injector: 1.11 (32% chance of 0)
Spiculus: 1.08 (33% chance of 0)

Average shooting: 2.19
Average Shooting combined with 1 Achillus and 1 Captain: 4.035. Morty's at ~14.

Telemon Melee Average: 6 attacks at S6 AP-3 flat 4 damage base = 8.33 average damage (standard deviation is ~4 though so it's swingy).
Average Melee combined with 1 Achillus and 1 Captain (Slayers of Nightmares on Achillus): ~16 damage average
Total Average: 4 + 16 = ~20 average.

With Miasma up, Morty probably survives unless it's 2 Telemons and a Captain Dread Hosting in. Without Miasma you can get away with 1 Telemon and 1 Achillus. 1 Telemon and 1 Achillus + the Captain will cost you 555 points. About comparable to Morty's 490.

EDIT: Keep in mind too that Morty's player can Counter-Offensive to interrupt you and try to break the combo by smashing a Dread. Counter-play is an option here.

@Audustum:
Thabks for doing the math! One thing though, the allarus captain with admonimortis wounds on 4s, except if you spend the +1to wound strat on him, but the achillus would be the better target for that though as you said. So the dmg of the captain might go down a smidge.
What about giving the allarus captain all seeing annihilator as his wl trait to give him an the achillus exploding 6s to hit? That might boost the melee dmg a bit.

One consideration in all of this is though you probably won't get all of that dmg through, even if you make all the charges and roll well, simply because of the fact that the DG player will 100% interrupt with morty and in all probability kill one of the achillus.

Tiberias wrote:
@Audustum:
Thabks for doing the math! One thing though, the allarus captain with admonimortis wounds on 4s, except if you spend the +1to wound strat on him, but the achillus would be the better target for that though as you said. So the dmg of the captain might go down a smidge.
What about giving the allarus captain all seeing annihilator as his wl trait to give him an the achillus exploding 6s to hit? That might boost the melee dmg a bit.

One consideration in all of this is though you probably won't get all of that dmg through, even if you make all the charges and roll well, simply because of the fact that the DG player will 100% interrupt with morty and in all probability kill one of the achillus.

I wrote 3 but did the math with 4 I believes so math should be good, sorry!

I thought about Annihilator but Morty shuts off aura benefits within 3" so it won't help anyone, even the Captain. He doesn't reduce their range to 0, he just shuts them off. Bane gets by because it's not an aura at all.

Counter-offensive is the big wrinkle in any melee plan. You need to either get the DG player to use it somewhere else or be down on CP enough it's safe (unlikely).

Another math piece: 10 Jetbikes, on the charge (so they get to re-roll wounds), only do ~7-~8 wounds to him. That's 850 points of Jetbike. Not a good solution.