Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I might point out that list has IMPERIAL KNIGHTS as 4th. Does anyone actually believe knights are dominating 9th? Or that Dark Angels are among the worst in the game? Or Necrons the worst? This list is sus as hell.

From what I've been seeing on Goons Imperial Knights actually are having a bit of a renaissance. Necrons place occasionally but most people seem to think they do have issues. Competitively, DA are kinda of seen as a dud despite how awesome they look on paper.

So as far as 'how performance at the US Opens went', yeah, I can see it.

Now that Knights can actually play the Objective game, they're back as serious contenders (and just as importantly significant gatekeepers). That's pushed their performance back up, especially on the lower to mid tier tables. Their overall swinginess and vulnerability to the kinds of dedicated AT that is all over the game right now means they're at a bit of a disadvantage on the higher tiers, but they can do the work in the right hands.

Sterling191 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I might point out that list has IMPERIAL KNIGHTS as 4th. Does anyone actually believe knights are dominating 9th? Or that Dark Angels are among the worst in the game? Or Necrons the worst? This list is sus as hell.

From what I've been seeing on Goons Imperial Knights actually are having a bit of a renaissance. Necrons place occasionally but most people seem to think they do have issues. Competitively, DA are kinda of seen as a dud despite how awesome they look on paper.

So as far as 'how performance at the US Opens went', yeah, I can see it.

Now that Knights can actually play the Objective game, they're back as serious contenders (and just as importantly significant gatekeepers). That's pushed their performance back up, especially on the lower to mid tier tables. Their overall swinginess and vulnerability to the kinds of dedicated AT that is all over the game right now means they're at a bit of a disadvantage on the higher tiers, but they can do the work in the right hands.

Can you back up that assertion with actual data? Because right now, the new Secondaries and 9th 2.0 hasn't even been out yet. How has there been any analysis of Knights and the new 9th? Apologies if you are talking about old 9th, in which case, what?

What do you all use to store your custodes? Specifically terminators and guard? There are 200+ storage companies and none of them make it super obvious which foam system to use.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I might point out that list has IMPERIAL KNIGHTS as 4th. Does anyone actually believe knights are dominating 9th? Or that Dark Angels are among the worst in the game? Or Necrons the worst? This list is sus as hell.

From what I've been seeing on Goons Imperial Knights actually are having a bit of a renaissance. Necrons place occasionally but most people seem to think they do have issues. Competitively, DA are kinda of seen as a dud despite how awesome they look on paper.

So as far as 'how performance at the US Opens went', yeah, I can see it.

Now that Knights can actually play the Objective game, they're back as serious contenders (and just as importantly significant gatekeepers). That's pushed their performance back up, especially on the lower to mid tier tables. Their overall swinginess and vulnerability to the kinds of dedicated AT that is all over the game right now means they're at a bit of a disadvantage on the higher tiers, but they can do the work in the right hands.

Can you back up that assertion with actual data? Because right now, the new Secondaries and 9th 2.0 hasn't even been out yet. How has there been any analysis of Knights and the new 9th? Apologies if you are talking about old 9th, in which case, what?

Knights got a buff in GW's Big FAQ (which wasn't that big) for the year letting the Armigers get access to ObSec. I think that's what he's referring to and it has been producing some results for them.

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
What do you all use to store your custodes? Specifically terminators and guard? There are 200+ storage companies and none of them make it super obvious which foam system to use.

I put Little magnets under the bases and got a metallic Inlay within my Transportbox. That works pretty Fine!

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I might point out that list has IMPERIAL KNIGHTS as 4th. Does anyone actually believe knights are dominating 9th? Or that Dark Angels are among the worst in the game? Or Necrons the worst? This list is sus as hell.

From what I've been seeing on Goons Imperial Knights actually are having a bit of a renaissance. Necrons place occasionally but most people seem to think they do have issues. Competitively, DA are kinda of seen as a dud despite how awesome they look on paper.

So as far as 'how performance at the US Opens went', yeah, I can see it.

Now that Knights can actually play the Objective game, they're back as serious contenders (and just as importantly significant gatekeepers). That's pushed their performance back up, especially on the lower to mid tier tables. Their overall swinginess and vulnerability to the kinds of dedicated AT that is all over the game right now means they're at a bit of a disadvantage on the higher tiers, but they can do the work in the right hands.

Can you back up that assertion with actual data? Because right now, the new Secondaries and 9th 2.0 hasn't even been out yet. How has there been any analysis of Knights and the new 9th? Apologies if you are talking about old 9th, in which case, what?

Knights got a buff in GW's Big FAQ (which wasn't that big) for the year letting the Armigers get access to ObSec. I think that's what he's referring to and it has been producing some results for them.

Pretty much. Combine with Armigers counting as 5 models and big Knights counting as 10 for objective control means it’s significantly more difficult to deny Knights primary scoring.

As for data, both flavors of Knights (spiky and otherwise) are sitting at just under a 50% 4WWR based on event results. Limited data set for sure, but compared to where they’ve been at earlier in the 9th cycle it’s not a difficult conclusion to draw. They’ve for sure been helped by adjustments to AdMech, but with Drukhari where they are I have few doubts about how much is meta shifts versus being actually able to play the Primary game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/rfejaf/meta_monday_121321/

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
What do you all use to store your custodes? Specifically terminators and guard? There are 200+ storage companies and none of them make it super obvious which foam system to use.

I play mostly Infantry and FW Dreads, I like magnetization but I moved a lot in my career so I went with a foam solution. Went with Battlefoam since it's sturdy enough to survive being in a moving crate even though it is pricey. If you're considering them I'd wait for one of their sales and try to get it 20-30% off. They also have a flat military discount year round.

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
What do you all use to store your custodes? Specifically terminators and guard? There are 200+ storage companies and none of them make it super obvious which foam system to use.

I use a toolbox (can't remember brand name off the top of my head) that has available pluck-foam tray inserts. The toolboxes can also clamp onto another toolbox from the same line, so you can have short boxes, tall boxes, boxes with wheels, boxes with lids, boxes with drawers, ect. Pretty modular setup, but the pluck foam fits them all.

I like the idea I saw in a video, magnetize the bottom of your minis, and put a dry erase pad in the bottom of a plastic container. Most magnetic dry erase boards have a sticky side that can be glued to the case. Then as long as the magnet is strong enough on your mini, it's not going anywhere. Now if you are talking the big bois like Telemons and the Gunship, you can just carry those in a back pack, or just fling them across the room. Leave it under the car seat, it'll be fine. Those finecast models are designed to be tough.

BTW next revised codex would be craftworld eldar(after gsc), it is...way better than custode's. 2022 would be tyranid/eldar year i guess

yeah, not loving their new leaks. They basically get a DE army. Great. Another OP faction that can crush us easily with their basic units.

Love the leak about how they are essentially getting Miracle dice but called "threads of fate" or something.

Yuuuuup, whole ya'll like Eldar master race. Even if they manage to kick DE out of the running, another Eldar shall take its place.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yuuuuup, whole ya'll like Eldar master race. Even if they manage to kick DE out of the running, another Eldar shall take its place.

Wait, what's happening now? Do we know something new about eldar? Let me guess their shooting gets some extra ap and range.

https://spikeybits.com/2021/08/rumors-new-combined-eldar-40k-codex-plastic-kits.html

we dont KNOW, but we got a whole buncha rumours.
And none of them look fun or on the same power level as things we got.

The threads of fate thing was teased as similar to miracle dice, only you can change your opponents dice instead of your own.

This is big cringe for us, as it means they will make us fail saves.

Hopefully its a bit more limited in what it can effect and in how many of these dice they can accumulate.

They did say something about how you roll so many dice at the start of the game (based on size) and thats all they get.

rumours say they can replace a dice that they roll with a dice that they rolled if it is equal and have it count as a 6 IIRC

that means they can only change their dice, and not yours, but to make THEIR saves if they want it. That sounds more fair, but is also very dangerous. Roll a 3" charge, make it 12". Boom.

Or, they now do Mortals on 6s with one of their guns, I forget which.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Or, they now do Mortals on 6s with one of their guns, I forget which.

The D-cannon/scythes if I remember correctly.

Come on guys! Stop lamenting about our faction before they even get their new codex. The latest Meta Watch even shows that the Custards are still pretty damn good and that’s still 8th codex. I’m not going to cry over Eldar that don’t exist yet.

Back on point, I think Wardens are going to be a thing for sure if they get a points drop.

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Come on guys! Stop lamenting about our faction before they even get their new codex. The latest Meta Watch even shows that the Custards are still pretty damn good and that’s still 8th codex. I’m not going to cry over Eldar that don’t exist yet.

Back on point, I think Wardens are going to be a thing for sure if they get a points drop.

man my informant got the codex like almost two months ago, gw screwed up, thats it. But custodes will be in upper middle position of A tier fraction for sure.

If your "informant" Got the full codex, why do we still have unanswered questions? Can't you just tell us what the statlines are for certain units? What there are for strats?

Probably because it is an earlier revision of the codex from a playtester.
The codex most likely got delayed to Jan due to the book not arriving in time from the printers in china.

superninja_834 wrote:

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Come on guys! Stop lamenting about our faction before they even get their new codex. The latest Meta Watch even shows that the Custards are still pretty damn good and that’s still 8th codex. I’m not going to cry over Eldar that don’t exist yet.

Back on point, I think Wardens are going to be a thing for sure if they get a points drop.

man my informant got the codex like almost two months ago, gw screwed up, thats it. But custodes will be in upper middle position of A tier fraction for sure.

I appreciate that you gave us an advanced preview, but I'm not sure I agree with your balance view. We're already a good contender. A small push is all we need. While thr Eldar mechanic is novel, we don't need something that crazy (even though it'd be fun).

I remember when the GK book came out, the public reaction was they were B+ to A tier. People thought Interceptor and Strike spam were the way. Then a few folks pointed out Dreads were actually good. All the sudden, Dread lists were podium'ing and winning tournaments to the point that some competitive scene watchers were complaining we lived in a Dark Eldar, AdMech and GK world.

We need strats and secondaries, but there's some good stuff here to goose us over the finish line.

We don't really have enough details right now to really say for sure, it's only one person's opinion. And besides, I hardly think being an upper A tier army qualifies as "dropping the ball" on our codex, that's an excellent place to be. We just don't know how all our rules will interact with each other yet or even put any of it on the table to get the reps and experience in actually playing the army with the new codex. People have been wrong on first impressions with new codexes before, I'm old enough to remember Drukhari players complaining about how they changed Power From Pain and DG players on how they changed DR, things turned out pretty well for both of them. The doom and gloom right now is unwarranted and based on pure conjecture.

So, since we know that allarus are apparently able to run in 1 man units now, has anyone got an opinion on the use of them in 1 or 2 man units? Could they have value as cheap(ish) objective holders, as deep strike screening, or in some other job? Obviously, they would clog up the an elite slot doing so, but curious if this ability to deploy singly is useful or not.

I dont think so.
They cant do actions
and while they're tough, you cant not rely on them entirely for obj holding. They're not invincible... and for DS screening I'd prefer troop sisters.
I mean if you have points to spare, as they're now pretty much our cheapest unit, drop one or two in to get to the limits and threating a backpiece artillery. Losing one turn of shooting if you can tag it is a nice bonus.
But other than that... I still think 3-6 man are the norm.
Maybe one can use them as speed bumps to block some choke, but damn, that feels BAD.

they can certainly do actions, just not the new ROD.

They are great for raising banners and/or doing the new deploy homers action secondary.

There might also be a faction specific secondary that use's actions.

Honestly at 60pts apiece, 1 or 2 single man units are looking nice at shoring up 2 of our weakenses. Those being number of deployment drops and number of units on the table.

Lets say your not spamming dreads, but want to run bikes. You can now take 3 units of bikes, 2 3man guard, a unit of prosecutors, whichever HQ's you want, and 3-4 single man allarus units with a vexilla.

In the deployment phase you'd almost assuredly have to drop your bikes down before your opponent dropped his anti-tank, but now you have potentially 6-8 drops you can put down before you even have to put a single bike squad down, letting you hide them much better.


It also makes getting Behind Enemy Lines almost an auto-take secondary for us. 4 units of single allarus is gonna guarantee us 8 points with that secondary and likely net us more.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
So, since we know that allarus are apparently able to run in 1 man units now, has anyone got an opinion on the use of them in 1 or 2 man units? Could they have value as cheap(ish) objective holders, as deep strike screening, or in some other job? Obviously, they would clog up the an elite slot doing so, but curious if this ability to deploy singly is useful or not.

Assuming that carries over into the codex, I can see a role for them as backline objective holders and banners action monkeys. They'll eat into Elite slots but I don't think you'd really need more than 2 units of 1 for the role and I feel like we'll likely be running battalions now since Prosecutors are Troops now so the slots won't be a huge issue. You could also use Prosecutors to do this but with single Allarus you can now use those Prosecutors to do things like RND and Deploy Teleport Homer now, since they're cheap Troops they're the ideal unit to do those actions if you strategic reserve them (and if they get access to deep strike even better).

I don't see us remaining a B tier if we don't see any massive points buffs. Right now we lose to almost every Meta matchup, HARD. Right now we have the most expensive, least threatening units in the game. Our basic troop unit is 50ppm, and has very little offensive power (which is the name of the game in 9th) to show for it. What good is a 2+4++ 4W stat line if you can't kill anything and get shot off the table very efficiently?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I don't see us remaining a B tier if we don't see any massive points buffs. Right now we lose to almost every Meta matchup, HARD. Right now we have the most expensive, least threatening units in the game. Our basic troop unit is 50ppm, and has very little offensive power (which is the name of the game in 9th) to show for it. What good is a 2+4++ 4W stat line if you can't kill anything and get shot off the table very efficiently?

Jesus, are you always like this?