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 ph34r wrote:
Custodes newbie here, so many options for each of our kits, what to choose?

I get the impression that I will need exactly 1 vexilla/standard bearer guy. Should I make this from a basic Custode?

The Allarus Terminators... are they worth making into a shield captain or vexilla? Or best to just make a squad of 3 guys?

Custodian Wardens... Use them to make a shield captain and/or Vexilla? Make them into a normal squad with axes or spears?

welcome to the golden club!

with your questions

1) i would recommend you build the vexilla out of a regular custodes and give him a storm shield and misracorda, so he has the extra survivability to stay alive.

2) I personally would say go for a squad of 3 termies, but its your call.

3) currently (ie with the 8th edition rules updated by the PA: war of the spider book and 9th ed imperial armour compendium) wardens are rather a poor choice. thier main problem is they are Elite choices and in competition with other Elite choices that, frankly are better uses of the space and points. its not that they are "bad", its just they are not better enough than the regular troops to really justify themselves. HOWEVER, that might change in the new codex, as GW have been trying to improve the suboptimal units in most codexs this edition and its quite possible they will make Wardens more useful in this coming edition.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
If you buy a box of allarus, make one Shield cap, one vex, and one regular termy.

2 box's would be ideal though.


For wardens, i bought a box and then got the FW upgrade kit and turned them into saggitarum as the models look great.

Out of curiosity, what makes the Allarus Vexilla better than the custodian vexilla? With a particular thought to, the terminator has 2+/5++, the custodian has 1+/4++?

The Allarus has a ranged weapon? Also the Allarus has a free Teleport.

Audustum wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
It really depends if GW limits the HH in numbers in any significant way, but they're definitely going to be a hard counter to the dread spam lists going around in the current scene.

Even just 3 HH's should do it I think. Three firing together is averaging 13.75ish damage even against a Telemon (my math will be a little off but that should be a pretty close idea). This is assuming no strat/HQ support of any kind, just the 'naked' models.

The bigger issue is to the Achillus/Galatus. Switching to 2+ to Wound hurts and takes the average to about 20 wounds, meaning they can realistically pop two of these Dreads per turn with enough consistency to make the Shield Boys have a sad day.

They'll pop infantry too but it's a much bigger waste of their shot due to overkill. 4W infantry are especially good because you resolve MW before regular damage, so the 3 damage gets eaten to take the model to 1W and then all the giant damage after that is overkill.

I run two Achillus Dreads (love the models more than anything else) and the HH concerns me quite a bit, although I haven't seen a Tau player since my last PCS.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Don't we get a 5+++ against all Mortals now?

Also, these Hammerheads are still weak to the same old things, As Son Goku once said, "I'mma try punching them, REALLY HARD."

Our Spear Naughts will still be top slayers in this. Actually, for the cost, Melta Contemptors would do good work with this as well.

2 of these render telemons non viable, which is a big deal since custodes lean on telemons.

The only other choice is the all shield list (which is getting worse in the new codex with a 4++ invul cap), and, well, I suspect tau will have the mid level shooting to ruin shieldguard too

I was thinking, that railgun shot even hurts when it shoots at Custodian Guard. If it hits a Sword/Board custodian he's toast. But then you apply mortal wounds too, which would be enough to take out another guard. An unbuffed Hammerhead can expect to take out 65 points of Custodians per turn with just its main gun.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I was thinking, that railgun shot even hurts when it shoots at Custodian Guard. If it hits a Sword/Board custodian he's toast. But then you apply mortal wounds too, which would be enough to take out another guard. An unbuffed Hammerhead can expect to take out 65 points of Custodians per turn with just its main gun.

see, i dont feel that a 200 point tank shooting as its only offensive option killing 65 points of custodians, thats within an acceptable return on investment for me, at least compared to a 180point dread or 300 point telemon.

Yeah, lets be honest, this is still just a really poorly designed faction, with a single big gun unit. That is still T7 13W, horrible bracketing, and a 3+ sv. You can shoot this off the table or even spear it off the table in a single FGLTC charge. Hell, a 5x squad of Bikes can one shot it in a single shooting phase with our new missiles, hell likely even with the HBs.

 ph34r wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
If you buy a box of allarus, make one Shield cap, one vex, and one regular termy.

2 box's would be ideal though.


For wardens, i bought a box and then got the FW upgrade kit and turned them into saggitarum as the models look great.

Out of curiosity, what makes the Allarus Vexilla better than the custodian vexilla? With a particular thought to, the terminator has 2+/5++, the custodian has 1+/4++?

The purpose of a vexilla is to buff your army so he needs more survivabilty and mobility options. Terminator armor gives both. The +1w is gonna be more useful than a +1sv in most situations as they both have a 4++. Granted the regular vex can take a spear or axe and be better in melee, but I've always been a fan of the termy vex.

I was always kind of hoping we could/would get the fluff based Vex. The Vex is purported in the books to be the best warrior or most experienced in the small teams. The Grizzled old Sgt to the Captain. And considering most Custodes are 1k+ years old, that's saying something. I'd love for the Vex to have abilities besides just the flag. +1 to wound against Chaos or Xenos (Chosen at battle round zero) or something. Just give them their due.

 Eihnlazer wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
If you buy a box of allarus, make one Shield cap, one vex, and one regular termy.

2 box's would be ideal though.


For wardens, i bought a box and then got the FW upgrade kit and turned them into saggitarum as the models look great.

Out of curiosity, what makes the Allarus Vexilla better than the custodian vexilla? With a particular thought to, the terminator has 2+/5++, the custodian has 1+/4++?

The purpose of a vexilla is to buff your army so he needs more survivabilty and mobility options. Terminator armor gives both. The +1w is gonna be more useful than a +1sv in most situations as they both have a 4++. Granted the regular vex can take a spear or axe and be better in melee, but I've always been a fan of the termy vex.

Is that correct, the allarus have 4++? I must be misreading somewhere. Which rule gives them the 4++?

Everyone has a native 5++, and our faction purity bonus is a +1 bonus for invulnerable saves, so 4++. Its in our codex, detachment abilities I think

Oh, gotcha. So basic custodes have 5++ improved to 4++, allarus custodes have 5++ improved to 4++, and custodes with storm shields have 4++ which doesn't get improved?

Basically, everyone has 4++?

 ph34r wrote:
Oh, gotcha. So basic custodes have 5++ improved to 4++, allarus custodes have 5++ improved to 4++, and custodes with storm shields have 4++ which doesn't get improved?

Basically, everyone has 4++?

Right now, with the current 8th Ed Codex, custodes with storm shields have a 4++ that gets improved to a 3++.

This might change in our new codex which is due to be released....soon hopefully since it should be out already, but has been delayed.

Yeah I think it's unlikely we'll get to keep the 3++ with Storm Shields since GW for the most part is trying to get rid of 3++, it hurt losing it on Ahriman to be a once per game ability.

So the storm shield has a special group of words, it's pedantic, but important. It improves the Save roll by +1, it does not give +1 to the save. Small, but important. The Shields for Custodes make their overall profile 1+3++5+++, until we get the full codex with rules and explanations, some time in Feb/March time. The new box set will not have a full codex, so expect to still play 8th rules until then.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So the storm shield has a special group of words, it's pedantic, but important. It improves the Save roll by +1, it does not give +1 to the save. Small, but important. The Shields for Custodes make their overall profile 1+3++5+++, until we get the full codex with rules and explanations, some time in Feb/March time. The new box set will not have a full codex, so expect to still play 8th rules until then.

They don't have a 5+++, never have....where's that coming from now? Custodes only have a FNP against psychic and even then it's only on 6s.
The storm shields are rather straight forward.... you get a flat 4++ and your armor save gets improved by 1. Right now custodes Infantry and bikers get +1 to their invulns, hence why we have the stellar 1+ save, 3+ invuln right now on our shield guys. Which we might lose, or likely lose in the new codex.

Right, I should have made my comment more specific. I thought one of the leaker's bits was a 5+ against ALL MWs? Instead of a 6+++ only against MWs in the Psychic phase. (Important Distinction there). It seemed odd that we would loose the +1 to all, but gain a 5+ against all MWs, but as others have said, the leaks appear to be valid so far?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right, I should have made my comment more specific. I thought one of the leaker's bits was a 5+ against ALL MWs? Instead of a 6+++ only against MWs in the Psychic phase. (Important Distinction there). It seemed odd that we would loose the +1 to all, but gain a 5+ against all MWs, but as others have said, the leaks appear to be valid so far?

I think that leak was a 4+++ to MW and while we do get it, it's tied to one of our sub-factions.

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right, I should have made my comment more specific. I thought one of the leaker's bits was a 5+ against ALL MWs? Instead of a 6+++ only against MWs in the Psychic phase. (Important Distinction there). It seemed odd that we would loose the +1 to all, but gain a 5+ against all MWs, but as others have said, the leaks appear to be valid so far?

I think that leak was a 4+++ to MW and while we do get it, it's tied to one of our sub-factions.

Thank you for the correction then! Still, right now we are using 8th rules until late Q1 2022 when the codex actually goes out. Earlier if it gets "leaked" to a russian website that instantly puts it on the Net. Praying for Custodes owning hackers...

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, lets be honest, this is still just a really poorly designed faction, with a single big gun unit. That is still T7 13W, horrible bracketing, and a 3+ sv. You can shoot this off the table or even spear it off the table in a single FGLTC charge. Hell, a 5x squad of Bikes can one shot it in a single shooting phase with our new missiles, hell likely even with the HBs.

5 bikes is 450 points man.

Which is probably triple what a hammerhead will cost, and 3 hammerheads will kill the entire bike squad in a turn, a 1:1 return.

We have no idea what a Hammerhead will cost, and those 5 bikes will still have a purpose after dispatching the hammerheads. Anything charging them out of reinforcements will likely kill a hammerhead, even a squad of spear wardens. Bikes are just better charge odds. 3 New and improved Spear wardens with the +1 to wound strat drop one. A Melta Contemptor drops one if it makes the charge. There are still ways to deal with this.

You all forget a lil thing - the thing has 72" range.
You have to get there. And the Hammerhead isnt the only thing on the board.
Also, if he rolls going first and you rely on DS to get it, you give it 2 rounds of shooting.
It could also easily hide behind obscuring, come in from reserves or anything else.
There is basically no way this thing is unable to get its 100% return of value if the tau player isnt totally incompetent.

The only thing you can do to counter this thing is bring no vehicles. And even then, it can probably just shoot of 2 Shield Guard per turn off an objective.
This thing kills 120 pts at LEAST per turn if it gets to shoot, even at suboptimal custodes targets.

 Thairne wrote:
You all forget a lil thing - the thing has 72" range.
You have to get there. And the Hammerhead isnt the only thing on the board.
Also, if he rolls going first and you rely on DS to get it, you give it 2 rounds of shooting.
It could also easily hide behind obscuring, come in from reserves or anything else.
There is basically no way this thing is unable to get its 100% return of value if the tau player isnt totally incompetent.

The only thing you can do to counter this thing is bring no vehicles. And even then, it can probably just shoot of 2 Shield Guard per turn off an objective.
This thing kills 120 pts at LEAST per turn if it gets to shoot, even at suboptimal custodes targets.

So does Mortarion. And Belakor. And Eradicators. And Wytch Cults. And Drashaar (Sp?) And Knights. Lethality is not a new thing for 40k. And as others have said, we have yet to see the codex. I am sad we don't get many big strong 3 damage weapons, but oh well. I'd rather not be part of that problem right now.

A lot of those things can be screened and/or outranged.
Nothing of those reaches across the table from behind obscuring T1, which is my major gripe.
Its unstoppable if he goes first and makes its points back basically.. always.

We have no idea how much it will cost. It is expected to be around 200. It might be 300points. It might be like LR where it has to be fielded as a unit of 1-3. We have no idea.

Side question: Anyone out there with Warhammer + battle app? How long does it generally take GW to update their units once the codex drops? I am wondering if it would be simpler to just subscribe to the app or buy the codex when it comes out later. I just don't see my store getting many, and those they get will likely be snatched up.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
We have no idea how much it will cost. It is expected to be around 200. It might be 300points. It might be like LR where it has to be fielded as a unit of 1-3. We have no idea.

Side question: Anyone out there with Warhammer + battle app? How long does it generally take GW to update their units once the codex drops? I am wondering if it would be simpler to just subscribe to the app or buy the codex when it comes out later. I just don't see my store getting many, and those they get will likely be snatched up.

A matter of days, but you will still need the codex code from a book, or you wont get strats, warlord traits, relics, unit abilities etc.

So there is literally no way to legally get a digital copy of the codex?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So there is literally no way to legally get a digital copy of the codex?

Separate from the purchase of the physical book, no. Even the warhammer app is missing information like secondary objectives, as a matter of deliberate omission so they don't miss out on that sweet dead tree sales profit

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Thairne wrote:
You all forget a lil thing - the thing has 72" range.
You have to get there. And the Hammerhead isnt the only thing on the board.
Also, if he rolls going first and you rely on DS to get it, you give it 2 rounds of shooting.
It could also easily hide behind obscuring, come in from reserves or anything else.
There is basically no way this thing is unable to get its 100% return of value if the tau player isnt totally incompetent.

The only thing you can do to counter this thing is bring no vehicles. And even then, it can probably just shoot of 2 Shield Guard per turn off an objective.
This thing kills 120 pts at LEAST per turn if it gets to shoot, even at suboptimal custodes targets.

So does Mortarion. And Belakor. And Eradicators. And Wytch Cults. And Drashaar (Sp?) And Knights. Lethality is not a new thing for 40k. And as others have said, we have yet to see the codex. I am sad we don't get many big strong 3 damage weapons, but oh well. I'd rather not be part of that problem right now.

Drukhari utterly stomp shieldstodes and only telemons prop our faction up against them. Using them as an example is kinda silly because they are far and away the best faction in the game and unfair to play against