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Has anyone found the base size for the Blade champion yet? I'd like to get started on my conversion. It's looking like 50?

Necronmaniac05 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I have seen some mention of 4+ saves vs mortal wounds but nothing leaked so far shows that so where is that coming from? WOuld be great if so given that is the Custodes' Achilles heel.

It's the vanilla fighting stance featured on warcom:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/02/powerful-new-shield-host-rules-cement-the-adeptus-custodes-as-the-true-elites-of-humanity/

Yes but my understanding was that was only if your shield host was the Emperors Chosen, so if you instead wanted to be the Shadowkeepers then you wouldn;t get that? Or am i getting confused?

That's a shame since I normally run Shadowkeepers I was hoping all Custodes got better FNP vs Mortals.

I also run Sword and Board so losing that 3++ Invul is a big blow. The subfaction traits look pretty fun though and I'm glad Valerian was boosted, I may give him a shot sometime.

The funny thing is...
You can get your effective 3++ back.
If you JUST invest another 105 pts into a praetor...

I love arguments like that.

I thought the only 3++ was the Eagle's Eye which got nerfed to once per game just like Ahriman. Praetor is only cover bonus right?

yes, but you end up with a 0+ save which is only worse against AP-4 (or ignore cover, which does not tend to go below -2 that often).

Alright gents in order to curb the negatively, here’s my first draft for the CA points (look for those leaks if you unaware of these points changes, and be aware we get knives for free everywhere). This list doesn’t use any FW units, so it probably could be optimized more. That said I like it as a first draft, as I believe MSU lists with emperors chosen makes the most sense overall.

Emperors.Chosen

Trajann 160 + 1CP, warlord

Biker cap 160 (-3 CP for; radiant mantle trait, superior creation trait, and auric aquilues relic)

Terminator Cap 115, +10 for unstoppable destroyer captain command trait, 125 (-2 CP for; eagle eye relic and emperors chosen trait)

Troops

3 spear guardians 135
3 spear guardians 135
5 prosecutors 60
5 prosecutors 60

Elites
3 ax terminators 180
3 ax terminators 180
3 ax terminators 180
3 ax wardens 150
Regular vexilla +1 attack 105
Terminator vexilla magnifica 115 (default relic, Obliterarium)

Fast attack
3 bikes with salvo launcher = 255

Starts with 8 CP

Plan here is just to where my opponents resources down, while using mostly army wide obsec to gain early points. Bikers and termi bannerman act as anti-vehicle firepower at range. Biker cap is a backfield harassment unit. Everyone else goes into 2 sorta bricks, with Trajanns brick taking the lead with the +1 attack bannerman, and the termi cap takes brick/wave 2 with termi bannerman.

Overall feels like it could be pretty good, as most armies should struggle some to kill this many wounds, especially since everyone is getting 1 CP trans human and emperors auspice.

So, compared to the GSC codex, our book seems like a complete afterthought. They have strong, fluffy rules and good on them, they deserve it.

Our book seems like a complete afterthought in comparison. The weapon profiles are an atrocity. Shields losing the 3++ is fine, but only making them +1 save is laughable. Our custodian guard and termis dropping in points and not gaining some survivability like +1W is super dumb and about the most in-fluffy thing you can do with custodes.

The only things I am excited about are our characters, the shield host traits and that we retained some of our bread and butter stratagems.

 Thairne wrote:
yes, but you end up with a 0+ save which is only worse against AP-4 (or ignore cover, which does not tend to go below -2 that often).

Ahhhh, I see what you mean. Well I did recently paint up a praetor I suppose I can give him a shot.

Haven't seen the GSC codex yet but I am glad they are getting fluffy rules, they certainly deserve it after being bottom of the barrel for so long. I'm also disappointed that Custodes didn't get a +1W across the board. I was thinking since Orks were getting T5 they may decide to make Custodes T6 or +1W but, here we are.

It's so weird because, to me, this codex seemed so easy to make awesome.

Simplify rules, add a few stat increases across the board, adjust weapon profiles a bit towards the standards of 9th, add a few genuinely exciting little gameplay tweaks and abilities, make sure that lesser-used units are good now, and you are pretty much done.

I feel they took what was probably the easiest codex to adapt and turned it into a really lackluster and boring slog.

As one of the goonhammer dudes put it:

"This codex feels like it’s lacking something I can point to and say “Yeah, that’s Custodes right there, that’s what this army is all about.”

leerm02 wrote:
It's so weird because, to me, this codex seemed so easy to make awesome.

Simplify rules, add a few stat increases across the board, adjust weapon profiles a bit towards the standards of 9th, add a few genuinely exciting little gameplay tweaks and abilities, make sure that lesser-used units are good now, and you are pretty much done.

I feel they took what was probably the easiest codex to adapt and turned it into a really lackluster and boring slog.

As one of the goonhammer dudes put it:

"This codex feels like it’s lacking something I can point to and say “Yeah, that’s Custodes right there, that’s what this army is all about.”

I mean, the other two previewers were more positive:

The Custodes codex seems like a pleasant surprise – a book that threads the needle of taking the previous iteration and reining in some really tiresome effects, while retaining and improving some of the useful flavour and power and adding some new bits of its own. Throughout 9th edition the Adeptus Custodes have sat in a middle-to-high tier 2 place in the meta, capable of going the distance and winning events but without the easy power that gives a faction a lock on the top placings (looking at you, Drukhari). That’s a good place for a book to be, and there was a lot of concern in the run-up to this Codex that it would swing Custodes too far in one direction or another – would GW overreact and strip away what made them work before, or would they “fix” units by turning all the knobs at once and creating a monster?

It looks like the answer is “neither”, and instead this feels like a well-considered book which adds some new depth to the faction, keeping it in the conversation for upper-mid tier power without overcooking it in a way that makes an opponent sigh when they see the golden boys across the table from them.

That was Corrode. Wings added:

What seems to be really key to making it work is the variable cost Stratagems, and I think if you’re an existing Custodes player looking at this and feeling faintly disappointed, definitely play a few games to get a feel for just how transformative 1CP Arcane Genetic Alchemy and Emperor’s Auspice are – it’s big stuff. I also feel like Ka’tahs are one of the more impactful versions of the “changing ability over the game” effect that GW have written, and the rewards if you choose to go for an Infantry/Biker heavy list are considerable.

These guys have it about right in my opinion. My view is that we're going to play different, but we're still going to play strong.

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-adeptus-custodes-9th-edition-the-goonhammer-review/

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Has anyone found the base size for the Blade champion yet? I'd like to get started on my conversion. It's looking like 50?

32mm, going off the Shadow throne box contents (1x50,3x40,10x32,13x25) the 50 is the genestealer patriach and the 3 40mm are the allarus, so he kinda has to be a 32mm base.

Audustum: I'm slowly starting to come around to your final point.

I don't think the faction is screwed, it's just... different. Harder to use, honestly, with a lot more fiddly bits to keep track of and a lot more care that needs to go into playing them.

That's not a bad thing... but the Custodes used to always be my "Lazy Army". Now they are just a bit more of a thinker, and are going to have a much higher learning curve.

I guess I need to start hitting the books, studying up, and figuring out how to win. Like you said: it's not worse, just different.

But, truthfully? I didn't want different... I just wanted better :-(

After reading that Goonhammer article, I think they nailed it with their observations. I think the main strength of this new Codex is going to be the Martial Ka’tah. I think once AC players figure out the stances, other armies are going to have a heck of a time trying to “out-smart” the Custodes. I think it’s kind of awesome to be able to tailor your game to your opponent.

Shield Captain Murderdeath

Relic: Obliteratum for S10 -5 D3+3 shooting
WLT1: Shadowkeeper trait for no invulns
WLT2: Champion of the Imperium for rerolls
CC: +1 to wound against characters

and then you use the strat to give him dread host fighting stance for AP -4.

6 S7 attacks with +1 to wound, AP-4, no invulns at D2 and a S10 -5 D3+3 assault 1 weapon with RR1s to hit

buh-bye basically everything.

or switch out Obliteratum for Praetorian Plate.
Or Stasis Oubliette.
Or the rerolls for Peerless Warrior for MWs on 6s.

Shield Captain Smashfucker is back.
avg 10W on a 3+ target, 8-10W on a 2+ target up to T6.
With obliteratum, you get up to 15W/13W respectively.

leerm02 wrote:

Audustum: I'm slowly starting to come around to your final point.

I don't think the faction is screwed, it's just... different. Harder to use, honestly, with a lot more fiddly bits to keep track of and a lot more care that needs to go into playing them.

That's not a bad thing... but the Custodes used to always be my "Lazy Army". Now they are just a bit more of a thinker, and are going to have a much higher learning curve.

I guess I need to start hitting the books, studying up, and figuring out how to win. Like you said: it's not worse, just different.

But, truthfully? I didn't want different... I just wanted better :-(

Yeah, to some extent I did too, but I guess it's time to get the ole brain meats a moving, haha.

All this whining gives me flashbacks to the launch of the GK codex and how everyone was saying they were ruined there as well.

Dang it, dang it, dang it. I was hoping that with the leaked contents of the 30k box that our Contemptor would have gained a weapon option or two. Sadly it did not. We can keep our fingers crossed that they FAQ in the options when the new model arrives.

I'm working on putting together a All Bikers list, and I'm trying to figure out, since Shadow Keepers seems like the only one beneficial to this type of list, it's likely to be them. Two Vertus Captains, Tip of the spear.

A Healthy mix of missiles and bikes in squads of 6. We'll see how it goes.

So what options do we have against really tough units and things with -1d like plagueburst crawlers? Salvo launchers?

So really, is there any reason NOT to always take Sword n Board on regular guard now? The +1 save coupled with Swords now +1 S and better shootings means I'm struggling to find a situation where spears would be better. MAYBE if you know you'll be facing a lot of MCs like Nids, but in which case the shields will be even more valuable...

artific3r wrote:
So what options do we have against really tough units and things with -1d like plagueburst crawlers? Salvo launchers?

And FW dreads. An Achillus will break many tough nuts in melee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So really, is there any reason NOT to always take Sword n Board on regular guard now? The +1 save coupled with Swords now +1 S and better shootings means I'm struggling to find a situation where spears would be better. MAYBE if you know you'll be facing a lot of MCs like Nids, but in which case the shields will be even more valuable...

I guess if you're going heavy offense with your Guardians. Otherwise, yeah, Guardians probably still want shields even without the 3++.

Honestly dont expect to see more than 6 custodian guard in any lists anymore.

Why take a 50pt sword and board guard, when you can take 50pt wardens?

You'll need 2 squads of 3 to fill out your battalion along with a squad of prosecutors. Thats it though. The days of custodian guard are gone.

xerxeskingofking wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Has anyone found the base size for the Blade champion yet? I'd like to get started on my conversion. It's looking like 50?

32mm, going off the Shadow throne box contents (1x50,3x40,10x32,13x25) the 50 is the genestealer patriach and the 3 40mm are the allarus, so he kinda has to be a 32mm base.

No, the blade champion is on a 40mm base.

 nordsturmking wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Has anyone found the base size for the Blade champion yet? I'd like to get started on my conversion. It's looking like 50?

32mm, going off the Shadow throne box contents (1x50,3x40,10x32,13x25) the 50 is the genestealer patriach and the 3 40mm are the allarus, so he kinda has to be a 32mm base.

No, the blade champion is on a 40mm base.

Can confirm the 40mm base.

So after some salt from the custodes community about some aspects of the codex(myself included), I am trying to think about the stuff I really like about the new book:

Firstly, I think it's great that basically all of the shield host traits are playable and it's actually difficult for me to pick a favorite.

Emperors Chosen with the once per unit reroll and 4+++ vs mortals might be the best general purpose one, especially for lists with lots dreadnoughts like the Telemon, since it's one of the very few rerolls left in the book the Telemon can benefit from.

I personally am biased towards shadowkeepers for a couple of reasons: the trait itself with - 1 attack is really good against combat armies, but what I like most about them is the relic and the warlord trait. Fight last is a very valuable ability and the stasis oubilette is the only source we have in the book, the warlord trait strait up ignoring invulns against enemy characters can also be just bonkers good depending on matchup. So shadowkeepers might be a more situational choice depending on the meta game.

Emisassaries Imperatus is another very strong choice simply because of the shield host traits. Always fight first and ignoring all hit and wound modifiers is really nice actually. Getting a pregame move with the strat can also be clutch. Imo this is the sleeper hit of the shield hosts.

Solar watch might actually be the strongest one. Getting +1 to advance and charge and access to advance and charge (even if it's just one unit and only on Infantry) is just simply very strong in a game where movement is king. The relic is bad and the strat is very situational, but who cares when the other buffs are that good.

Dread host is actually also very strong. Reroll charges and +1ap on every weapon when enemy is within 9" is nothing to be laughed at. Ironically this shield host is probably inferior to solar watch if you want to deepstrike terminators or dreadnoughts, since reroll charges might be nice, but getting a flat +1 to your charge that you then still have the option to reroll with a command point is simply more reliable.

The only one I don't find that good or interesting is aquilan shield. But it's actually really cool that 5 out of 6 available shield hosts are very much playable.

Another thing that I can't stress enough is how strong our characters feel now. There are some very good combinations available and our named characters are true powerhouses (trajann especially). So to me this codex feels very much like herohammer.

Some of my favorite combinations:

Emperors chosen horde blender blade champ:
Gets both the Auric Paragon and Peerless warrior WL trait, so he gets up to 4 extra attacks and does MWs on 6s to wound. So if you use the hurricanis profile you get 12 attacks base and up to 8 more if you manage to kill 4 models. So 20 attacks that do mortal wounds in 6s to wound....thats a LOT of horde clearing power for 110p. You can even push this to 24 attacks with the right Kata and banner.

Shadowkeepers character hunter (either bike captain or blade champ):
Giving either the blade champ or bike captain both the shadowkeepers WL trait and relic makes them truly horrifying for most enemy characters. Making them fight last and ignoring invulns is just super oppressive.
Which character fulfills this role better remains to be seen. The bike captain obviously is better at actually getting to enemy characters, but the blade champion has more raw damage potential due to Ap4, Dmg3 and reroll all wounds.

Insta teleporting terminator captain:
This one actually might see some play, because if you give a terminator captain the praetorian plate you can yeet him across the board into any ongoing combat with a heroic intervention. That flexibility of movement on a tough obsec body is actually amazing.

Another thing that's very positive are our arrange of stratagems. Transhuman and emperor's auspice getting cheaper on small units is awesome and still having access to tanglefoot grenade can be super clutch. Losing teleport homer and stooping dive is a bit sad, but not terrible.


One last thing I want to mention, that I really like is our Auric Mortalis secondary. It might be occasionaly very good depending on matchup, but I mainly enjoy that one because it's just epic and cool.
The other two secondaries are not that usefull in my opinion, but I might be overlooking something.

So this is my purposefully positive take on the new codex. There's a lot of stuff I'm not keen about and some lost opportunities, but the army definitely won't be bottom tier.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Dang it, dang it, dang it. I was hoping that with the leaked contents of the 30k box that our Contemptor would have gained a weapon option or two. Sadly it did not. We can keep our fingers crossed that they FAQ in the options when the new model arrives.

I must have missed that one, what weapons are being added to the FW Dreads?

Continued noob questions:

I've built custodian guard squad into 3x spear guys, a shield guy/captain, and a vexilla

what should wardens get built into? spears, axes? Just like guards but slightly better and not troops?

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Dang it, dang it, dang it. I was hoping that with the leaked contents of the 30k box that our Contemptor would have gained a weapon option or two. Sadly it did not. We can keep our fingers crossed that they FAQ in the options when the new model arrives.

I must have missed that one, what weapons are being added to the FW Dreads?

None, but the preview showed what appeared to be the plastic contemptor but with a weapons fit not on the plastic kit, implying they were going to add extra guns to non relic contemptor (ie the version we have)

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Honestly dont expect to see more than 6 custodian guard in any lists anymore.

Why take a 50pt sword and board guard, when you can take 50pt wardens?

You'll need 2 squads of 3 to fill out your battalion along with a squad of prosecutors. Thats it though. The days of custodian guard are gone.

Agreed. To expand on your point, Sword and board Guys still need light cover to truly be durable, and that’s not guaranteed even with the banner (and they still fold to -4 AP, which isn’t that uncommon). I also don’t even like vexilla defensor, as it won’t do much for our other units in many matchups, compared to the almost always useful +1 A and -1 to hit we get from the other 2.

I Think people want shield guard to be better option because they have many lying around from the last book, but this point it’s pretty clearly guardians are a tax you want to keep as cheap as possible.

Initially I was really down on the book after seeing all the leaks and previews.

Now having read the whole thing I'm cautiously optimistic but see a couple of big problems.

With the shield hosts, stances and character options we have alot of tricks and abilities to play around with and they will reward good planning and clever play which should be fun to use.
None of our units are bad (except obviously the landraider) and we can play the objective game really well still.

The two issues I still have are both mainly for competetive play.
Firstly we have dropped in overall survivability - losing all our 3++, and some of our strats just means we will die quicker VS some of the hyper efficient killing lists put there.
The rumored points drop on most things will help with this no doubt.

The second one is the big issue - how do we kill hard targets? Against drukhari monsters or the new nid monsters everything we have just bounces off. -1 dam and invul just completely shuts down our combat ability and a squad or two of bikes doesn't even start to cover this weakness.
Against most list we will be fun and competetive but again neg damage and/or invuln saves (which seems to be most new armies) we just don't really have a game other than hope to hold objectives.

not infantry, thats for sure.
I still dont know why they insisted on having castellan axes being D2, but that just forces you into FW.
The only codex option is Salvo launchers for 90 pts for 1 shot that can bounce of invulns.
Oh and, I guess the Melta Contemptor.
Telemons, Caladius, Achillus dreads and to some extent the humble Palas Grav Attack can fill that role as well.
I mean a Caladius doesnt look too bad at 205 pts... its not as efficient as ballistarii e.g. but you gotta take what you gotta take.