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2018/01/25 21:59:08
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Admech is Codex: Dakkabot support detachment. Greyknights is Codex: GKGrandmaster in DK armor. Custodes is Codex: HQs on bikes.
Fluff lovers might run huge biker swarms in big outrider detachments. Tournament soup players (me) will run 3x HQ bikers with stacked up CP and relics. Guys who use youtube to sell painting services will demonstrate their amazing looking foot custodians that never ever go to a tournament.
EDIT: that said, I am totally pumped for this release. I can't wait to have 6 bikes I can slot alongside my guard brigade. 3 victors of the bloodgames on bikes + Celestine sounds like a hell of a lot of fun. Guard mortar spam thins out the screens, and my golden flying characters smash valuable targets.
EDIT2: I think this is actually viable if you really like the models. A whole lot of deepstrike melee lists would be terrified against this. This list would struggle against truly serious gunlines, but you can always deepstrike the bikes.
CADIA brigade: 3x commander, 3x astropath (denies), 3x flamer sentinels, 6x guards with mortars, 5x mortar teams
What I can't figure out is who gets the warlord trait. If you put on the biker, then spend 4CP on victors of the bloodgames, then 3CP on deepstrikes, and 1CP on a second relic puts you at 5CP before the game starts with no refunds. And maybe you buy relic of lost cadia for 1CP.
Or you go 5+/5+ base, spend 3CP on relics, then spend 4CP on bloodgames and 3CP on deepstrikes, but maybe you get refunds on those spends if you deploy your 5+/5+ commander first. That gives you 3CP if you get no refunds. Maybe 2CP if you go relic of lost cadia. But I think the blood games and deepstrike will be key.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/25 22:22:41
2018/01/25 22:31:48
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Ouch really? loss of the 5++ is gonna hurt the VLR even more and a lot of people where saying it wasn't worth it before.
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
2018/01/25 22:43:11
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Well the 5++ never made much difference. It only comes into play at all against weapons with at least a -4AP, and even then only helps if you roll a 5 on your save (so one in 6 of ap-4 attacks). Not a huge deal.
And you could argue that it was odd for the significantly better Custodes LR to cost almost nothing more than a marine one. If the marine LR is the right cost then the Custodes one needs to be more than it was.
But actually Land Raiders are bad. They wouldn't be so bad if they had a rule to let them fall back and shoot, which I think they need in order to be viable.
2018/01/25 23:12:45
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Yeah. A 5++ for a model with a 2+ save with how AP works now isn't really important.
The same goes for Space Marines, in 8th, having a 3+ is basically a 6++. Theres a small number of weapons that have -4AP or higher. And they shouldn't be hitting your space marines.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2018/01/25 23:52:08
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Kzraahk wrote: DAE think a few assasins thrown in could add to a Custodes army? I was thinking 2 Eversors and a Culexus
Yes and No.
Culexus obviously helps against smite which is a big weakness and I would most likely run one of playing Custodes.
Eversors draw attention away on turn 1 from your Bikers setting up to hit on T2. However all those basic guns that would bounce off Custodes will just kill the assassins instead so your opponent isnt spending valuable resources on them.
2018/01/26 09:31:35
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Wulfey wrote: Admech is Codex: Dakkabot support detachment. Greyknights is Codex: GKGrandmaster in DK armor. Custodes is Codex: HQs on bikes.
Fluff lovers might run huge biker swarms in big outrider detachments. Tournament soup players (me) will run 3x HQ bikers with stacked up CP and relics. Guys who use youtube to sell painting services will demonstrate their amazing looking foot custodians that never ever go to a tournament.
EDIT: that said, I am totally pumped for this release. I can't wait to have 6 bikes I can slot alongside my guard brigade. 3 victors of the bloodgames on bikes + Celestine sounds like a hell of a lot of fun. Guard mortar spam thins out the screens, and my golden flying characters smash valuable targets.
EDIT2: I think this is actually viable if you really like the models. A whole lot of deepstrike melee lists would be terrified against this. This list would struggle against truly serious gunlines, but you can always deepstrike the bikes.
CADIA brigade:
3x commander, 3x astropath (denies), 3x flamer sentinels, 6x guards with mortars, 5x mortar teams
What I can't figure out is who gets the warlord trait. If you put on the biker, then spend 4CP on victors of the bloodgames, then 3CP on deepstrikes, and 1CP on a second relic puts you at 5CP before the game starts with no refunds. And maybe you buy relic of lost cadia for 1CP.
Or you go 5+/5+ base, spend 3CP on relics, then spend 4CP on bloodgames and 3CP on deepstrikes, but maybe you get refunds on those spends if you deploy your 5+/5+ commander first. That gives you 3CP if you get no refunds. Maybe 2CP if you go relic of lost cadia. But I think the blood games and deepstrike will be key.
Adding three biker HQs to my foot guard brigade was exactly my thinking too! I also like the custodes maelstrom stratagem - 1CP to swap out an unachievable TO is pretty good when you have loads... I'd honestly be more tempted to put the relics on the guard though, and have a grand strategist warlord with kurovs Aquila hiding at the back for command points!
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
2018/01/26 18:02:31
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Audustum wrote: Do we have any clue on base sizes for the bikes? I imagine they're going to be pretty big.
Going off current sizes - Eldar Vyper and Wave Serpent bases are 60mm and Eldar Jetbikes are 30mm. Personally, i see them being 30mm, as i think 60mm will just be "too big".
2018/01/26 19:38:52
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Audustum wrote: Do we have any clue on base sizes for the bikes? I imagine they're going to be pretty big.
Going off current sizes - Eldar Vyper and Wave Serpent bases are 60mm and Eldar Jetbikes are 30mm. Personally, i see them being 30mm, as i think 60mm will just be "too big".
Thanks!
2018/01/26 19:50:38
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Wulfey wrote: Admech is Codex: Dakkabot support detachment. Greyknights is Codex: GKGrandmaster in DK armor. Custodes is Codex: HQs on bikes.
Fluff lovers might run huge biker swarms in big outrider detachments. Tournament soup players (me) will run 3x HQ bikers with stacked up CP and relics. Guys who use youtube to sell painting services will demonstrate their amazing looking foot custodians that never ever go to a tournament.
EDIT: that said, I am totally pumped for this release. I can't wait to have 6 bikes I can slot alongside my guard brigade. 3 victors of the bloodgames on bikes + Celestine sounds like a hell of a lot of fun. Guard mortar spam thins out the screens, and my golden flying characters smash valuable targets.
EDIT2: I think this is actually viable if you really like the models. A whole lot of deepstrike melee lists would be terrified against this. This list would struggle against truly serious gunlines, but you can always deepstrike the bikes.
CADIA brigade:
3x commander, 3x astropath (denies), 3x flamer sentinels, 6x guards with mortars, 5x mortar teams
What I can't figure out is who gets the warlord trait. If you put on the biker, then spend 4CP on victors of the bloodgames, then 3CP on deepstrikes, and 1CP on a second relic puts you at 5CP before the game starts with no refunds. And maybe you buy relic of lost cadia for 1CP.
Or you go 5+/5+ base, spend 3CP on relics, then spend 4CP on bloodgames and 3CP on deepstrikes, but maybe you get refunds on those spends if you deploy your 5+/5+ commander first. That gives you 3CP if you get no refunds. Maybe 2CP if you go relic of lost cadia. But I think the blood games and deepstrike will be key.
Adding three biker HQs to my foot guard brigade was exactly my thinking too! I also like the custodes maelstrom stratagem - 1CP to swap out an unachievable TO is pretty good when you have loads... I'd honestly be more tempted to put the relics on the guard though, and have a grand strategist warlord with kurovs Aquila hiding at the back for command points!
Yeah. The HQs are really good. The other way I was thinking of running this was to go pure HQ style on 2 boxes of bikes.
CUSTODES outrider
3x biker HQs (spend 6CP on bloodgames + 3CP on relics)
IMPERIUM soup battalion
1x Celestine+Gem, 1xCC, 3x5 scouts
CADIA mortar brigade
3x CC, 2x astropath, 1x priest, 6x guards with mortars, 3x flamer sentinels, 5x mortar teams, 1x3 basilisks
Put 5+/5+ warlord trait and relic, 16 base CP, 13CP after relics, and 6 5+ refundable CP on biker blood games. Rely on guard non-LOS shooting and HQ heavy mid board.
2018/01/26 21:20:47
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Ordana wrote: What do you even spend all those CP's on.
I don't see the point of a Battalion AND a Brigade.
3CP to get two relics. And 2CP per biker HQ to get victor of the blood games on all of them. It gives you 1 reroll hit, wound, and SAVE per TURN. This means you can reroll a save on every overwatch and every opponent turn. On models with 3++ and 2+ saves, that is a huge increase in durability and worth the 2 CP. Think about how many save rolls that is over the course of the game. And if you are watching the LVO stream, yes, if you play competitively and play imperium SCOUTS are mandatory. If you can't space out enemy deep strikes then you lose, period. And if you are bringing the mandatory 3 scout squads, why not take a battalion for more CP? In ITC you just have to have scouts to deal with armies that deep strike every one of their threats. Think obliterators, 30 bloodletter bombs, scions, tau, hell tyranid have some deep strike tricks. Bring scouts or just lose.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 21:44:09
2018/01/26 22:22:23
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Ordana wrote: What do you even spend all those CP's on.
I don't see the point of a Battalion AND a Brigade.
3CP to get two relics. And 2CP per biker HQ to get victor of the blood games on all of them. It gives you 1 reroll hit, wound, and SAVE per TURN. This means you can reroll a save on every overwatch and every opponent turn. On models with 3++ and 2+ saves, that is a huge increase in durability and worth the 2 CP. Think about how many save rolls that is over the course of the game. And if you are watching the LVO stream, yes, if you play competitively and play imperium SCOUTS are mandatory. If you can't space out enemy deep strikes then you lose, period. And if you are bringing the mandatory 3 scout squads, why not take a battalion for more CP? In ITC you just have to have scouts to deal with armies that deep strike every one of their threats. Think obliterators, 30 bloodletter bombs, scions, tau, hell tyranid have some deep strike tricks. Bring scouts or just lose.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's actually 1 hit, wound OR save per turn, not one of each =(
2018/01/26 22:32:54
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Beta rules says characters under 9W can't cover for each other. I expect that rule to be made concrete so sadly they would be able to shoot it whatever bike they want.
2018/01/26 23:06:42
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
max out supreme command detachments with 3x captains on bikes.
fast, incredibly tough, and all characters so units are just able to shoot closest model. so plan accordingly to force fire to be separated.
I doubt it would take any big tournaments, but little local ones it might break the meta.
... Except there are no restrictions at all who can be shot in that list, because they are all characters and thus you can shoot whatever you want. GW fixed the Character targeting for this specific reason, to slap down silly forced fire separation / assassin shields that mystically draw all the fire to themselves and could only be hit on a 6+.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 23:07:11
Audustum wrote: Beta rules says characters under 9W can't cover for each other. I expect that rule to be made concrete so sadly they would be able to shoot it whatever bike they want.
This
I keep thinking of doing 2x5 Scouts, with 3 Shield Captains and 6 Bikers with 9 Scout bikes as well, then the rest filler in a Flyer or 2.
Ordana wrote: What do you even spend all those CP's on.
I don't see the point of a Battalion AND a Brigade.
3CP to get two relics. And 2CP per biker HQ to get victor of the blood games on all of them. It gives you 1 reroll hit, wound, and SAVE per TURN. This means you can reroll a save on every overwatch and every opponent turn. On models with 3++ and 2+ saves, that is a huge increase in durability and worth the 2 CP. Think about how many save rolls that is over the course of the game. And if you are watching the LVO stream, yes, if you play competitively and play imperium SCOUTS are mandatory. If you can't space out enemy deep strikes then you lose, period. And if you are bringing the mandatory 3 scout squads, why not take a battalion for more CP? In ITC you just have to have scouts to deal with armies that deep strike every one of their threats. Think obliterators, 30 bloodletter bombs, scions, tau, hell tyranid have some deep strike tricks. Bring scouts or just lose.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's actually 1 hit, wound OR save per turn, not one of each =(
The important part is the save. They already reroll all their shooting to hit (2+ with RR1s) and to hit in melee (2+ with RR1), and they reroll wounds on the charge. The point is the save roll and optionally 1 wound roll if you are attacking last and won't take any more saves.
2018/01/27 00:07:28
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
So i gave the 'allarus bomb' a try in proxy this afternoon. the results were quite franky disgusting, and utterly butchered the alaitoc/DR power list I was testing against.
for those who don't want to dig through the thread, the "allarus bomb" can be summarized:
[out of sequence charge (stooping dive strat) > summon your buddy (praetorian plate vexilus praetor) > assuming vexilla survives, spend 3 CP to deepstrike some allarus terminators within 6″ of vexilla (who’s technically been on the board all of your turn) and more than 3″ from the enemy]
I got turn 1, inflicted some casualties but not too many thanks to his stacked hit penalties, moving up two squads to cover the advance of the shield captain on bike as far as they could.
His turn one he inflicted some casualties, but this was just infantry squads and the cylops dying since everything that wasn't a character was out of LoS. The fulmenaris aggressor relic vexilla is absolutely worth it here to prevent morale losses, better than the 5++ imo. End of his charge phase stooping dive is triggered, combined with the re-roll charges gets me an easy 9" into some of his reapers. Vexilus joins him, and they kill the two units handily.
My turn 2, Allarus terminators arrive, and get forewarned, by a DR squad down to 7 from basilisk fire. one takes 3 wounds but otherwise survives, and the grenade launcher stratagem sees 3 different spiritseers dead in one round of terminator shooting. the rest of the guard section continues it's advance up the table, now fully controlling half the table and four objectives. Charge/fight phase sees another two units of 5 reapers dead, and the 10-block slaughtered wholesale by the allarus with the wounded terminator dying to overwatch. two units of rangers died to priest-buffed guardsmen mauling them.
His turn 2, his shining spears arrived by webway gate, but with spiritseers dead could not quicken into a lance shot. the remaining dark reapers (2 units) and both spears unloaded into the allarus and dropped one more to 1w. He succeeded on the charge with both spear units into the allarus, who took one more casualty before sweeping both units from the board in a slaughter.
He then conceded.
I think the strength of this is that you can bypass an entire round of shooting against your hammer unit, allowing you to get the bulk of the work done without reprisal, and is very much tournament grade
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/27 00:08:18
2018/01/27 00:13:31
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The Allarus bomb is quite nice though the Allarus and Trajan needs to be FAQ'd for more W higher T etc. Currently they are a bit overcosted vs their stats, in my view.
2018/01/27 00:58:05
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Amishprn86 wrote: I still dont think it will work in a Comp style game. Especially against someone that knows what you are doing.
There's a point at which even if you know what a guy is doing there may not be much you can do about it. The key model in the bomb is the guy with the teleport-a-friend ability. So yeah, the opponent knows where he is, but that model is fast, so there's only so much you can do. Even if you don;t provide that guy with the opportunity to counter charge at the top of turn two, he could still be all over you that round anyway. I think it could be made to work in a pretty competitive environment. I'll be eager to hear about this idea getting stress tested against some top flight opponents.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2018/01/27 01:42:56
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Amishprn86 wrote: I still dont think it will work in a Comp style game. Especially against someone that knows what you are doing.
There's a point at which even if you know what a guy is doing there may not be much you can do about it. The key model in the bomb is the guy with the teleport-a-friend ability. So yeah, the opponent knows where he is, but that model is fast, so there's only so much you can do. Even if you don;t provide that guy with the opportunity to counter charge at the top of turn two, he could still be all over you that round anyway. I think it could be made to work in a pretty competitive environment. I'll be eager to hear about this idea getting stress tested against some top flight opponents.
actually the Vexilus praetor can use any imperium character as the target, the jetbike captain is just the best target since he has the option to make an out of sequence charge that then immeadiately triggers the conditions for the praetorian plate.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those of you that use battlescribe, file is done and being pushed for release, will be available once the data site picks it up
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/27 03:44:01
2018/01/27 04:47:36
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those of you that use battlescribe, file is done and being pushed for release, will be available once the data site picks it up
Thats very fast, thanks for your contribution.
Glad to hear Allarus Custodes can get some work done with the DS stratagem.
RE: Your list, why the Ministorum priests?
2018/01/27 04:56:20
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those of you that use battlescribe, file is done and being pushed for release, will be available once the data site picks it up
Thats very fast, thanks for your contribution.
Glad to hear Allarus Custodes can get some work done with the DS stratagem.
RE: Your list, why the Ministorum priests?
they add +1 to attack rolls for AM troops. maybe he thought it was an Imperium wide buff?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2018/01/27 05:02:45
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Amishprn86 wrote: I still dont think it will work in a Comp style game. Especially against someone that knows what you are doing.
There's a point at which even if you know what a guy is doing there may not be much you can do about it. The key model in the bomb is the guy with the teleport-a-friend ability. So yeah, the opponent knows where he is, but that model is fast, so there's only so much you can do. Even if you don;t provide that guy with the opportunity to counter charge at the top of turn two, he could still be all over you that round anyway. I think it could be made to work in a pretty competitive environment. I'll be eager to hear about this idea getting stress tested against some top flight opponents.
actually the Vexilus praetor can use any imperium character as the target, the jetbike captain is just the best target since he has the option to make an out of sequence charge that then immeadiately triggers the conditions for the praetorian plate.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those of you that use battlescribe, file is done and being pushed for release, will be available once the data site picks it up
WOW thank you very much! Do we need to go get that 1 file or just update?
Amishprn86 wrote: I still dont think it will work in a Comp style game. Especially against someone that knows what you are doing.
There's a point at which even if you know what a guy is doing there may not be much you can do about it. The key model in the bomb is the guy with the teleport-a-friend ability. So yeah, the opponent knows where he is, but that model is fast, so there's only so much you can do. Even if you don;t provide that guy with the opportunity to counter charge at the top of turn two, he could still be all over you that round anyway. I think it could be made to work in a pretty competitive environment. I'll be eager to hear about this idea getting stress tested against some top flight opponents.
actually the Vexilus praetor can use any imperium character as the target, the jetbike captain is just the best target since he has the option to make an out of sequence charge that then immeadiately triggers the conditions for the praetorian plate.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those of you that use battlescribe, file is done and being pushed for release, will be available once the data site picks it up