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stratigo wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
No one is "that guy".

It's completely legal and GW wrote the exception to specifically allow it.

Dude, it's obvious you're that guy.

"Woohoo I get to abuse a rule for a week before it's faqed out! Look how amazing I am. I'm totally gonna crush those noobs".

I think you've intentional missed the multiple times I've said this combo is awful.

Please contribute tactical comments instead of attempting to come after me personally.

So how are you guys dealing with heavy psyker forces so far? I've been trying to make a Custodes TAC list (open to allies), but I'm running into budgeting issues.

It seems I can EITHER take a Battalion of Custodes and then ally in ranged anti-armor or ally in psykers/psychic defense, but not enough points for both. I'd like to keep the majority of the army Custodes but I'm open to most any allies. So far look at Guard tanks, Imperial Knights, Grey Knights, Supreme Commands of Psykers and Ultramarine allies.

Audustum wrote:
So how are you guys dealing with heavy psyker forces so far? I've been trying to make a Custodes TAC list (open to allies), but I'm running into budgeting issues.

It seems I can EITHER take a Battalion of Custodes and then ally in ranged anti-armor or ally in psykers/psychic defense, but not enough points for both. I'd like to keep the majority of the army Custodes but I'm open to most any allies. So far look at Guard tanks, Imperial Knights, Grey Knights, Supreme Commands of Psykers and Ultramarine allies.

Take a psyker Inquisitor or two, with 3 Culexus Assassin as ally, should be less than 450pts. Then those who wish to spam smite against you will hate you.

I only have 1 Culexus, oh darn

Custodes have four ways to deal with enemy psychers. There is a relic that can deny the witch, a Warlord trait that can deny the witch (with a +1 bonus), and a stratagem that can make any unit deny the witch. In addition we have that 6+ save against mortal wounds.

Custodes aren't super great at combatting psychers, but they aren't the worst at it either. They are pretty good at taking out characters, so make a beeline for the psychers and eliminate the threat.

The list I’m working at the moment is a custodes battalion with an anti Psykers vanguard detachment:

Shield captain
Shield captain on dawneagle

4 sword and board guard
3 spear guard
3 spear guard

3 wardens
1 vellixa (-1 to hit)

4 jet bikes

Vanguard

Celestine

Culexus

2 x 5 SoS Prosecutors

Anti tank options are somewhat limited to 3 Melta Missiles on the bikes and Castellan Axes.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Custodes have four ways to deal with enemy psychers. There is a relic that can deny the witch, a Warlord trait that can deny the witch (with a +1 bonus), and a stratagem that can make any unit deny the witch. In addition we have that 6+ save against mortal wounds.

Custodes aren't super great at combatting psychers, but they aren't the worst at it either. They are pretty good at taking out characters, so make a beeline for the psychers and eliminate the threat.

I'd argue that custodes are one of the worst just on the basis of their point expense per wound. Every wound from a smite or similar psychic ability on a custodes is way worse than pretty much any other army in the game.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Custodes have four ways to deal with enemy psychers. There is a relic that can deny the witch, a Warlord trait that can deny the witch (with a +1 bonus), and a stratagem that can make any unit deny the witch. In addition we have that 6+ save against mortal wounds.

Custodes aren't super great at combatting psychers, but they aren't the worst at it either. They are pretty good at taking out characters, so make a beeline for the psychers and eliminate the threat.

They appear to have been created to use alongside the other Talon, the Sisters of Silence who are reasonable on paper at shutting down enemy witches, just that for whatever reason they were not in what should have been Codex: Talons of the Emperor and the fact they are not is interesting in itself with regard to the future of Sisters of Silence (e.g. will they get their own mini-codex at some point?)

The Bananas do appear to have a few ways to shut witches down, and enough would to be able to hope they can survive one or two smites, even if it does hurt - but as created they appear to be designed to run alongside other formations, who then get that job - the way the game is now they simply don't need to be able to shut down enemy psi stuff, they can bring an ally to do that for them if they expect to need it - or can take their lumps like anyone else if they decide not to.


Of the stuff in the book I'd say the stratagem is the most useful as you don't need to use it unless you need it, the relics and warlord trait are a bit more limiting and frankly if you're facing serious smite spam stuff won't be overly useful anyway.

I wouldn't worry too much about smite-spam if you're building a custodes army now. It's been "rebalanced" enough to not be the go to army build since chapter approved beta rules dropped. Looking forward i think custodes will do fine in that regard.

Great suggestions, thanks all!

I'm not worried about just Smite spam but also stuff like Death Hex and Null Zone. So the beta rules don't fix everything.

Audustum wrote:
Great suggestions, thanks all!

I'm not worried about just Smite spam but also stuff like Death Hex and Null Zone. So the beta rules don't fix everything.

You still have a 2+ armour against stuff after that. Sure, it won't save you from a Volcano Cannon, but against most stuff, you'll still get a good save.

So after actually getting the codex and properly reading the stratagems, I realised the Vexilla teleport homer actually works on all Custodes units that can deepstrike, not just Allarus Custodes. Not sure why I originally thought that was the case.

Considering this, are Allarus the best unit to be dropping as a DS bomb? My original plan was to use 6 of them, but for that price you can get about 7.5 Wardens (with axes + daggers) or 9 and a half Custodian Guard with spears.

Compared to those options, Allarus have the best shooting (grenades + target characters stratagem), and don't cost an extra CP to teleport. Also the consolidate towards characters thing.

Wardens have the best CC output of the 3 by a good margin, and better durability than the terminators.

The large squad of Custodian Guard are probably slightly more durable most of the time, considering the extra bodies and storm shields, but you miss out on axes which is pretty crucial. They are also troops which is a bonus.

Im still tossing up between the Wardens and the Allarus.

What are some opinions? Whos the best DS bomb?

If you can get the Vexilla Teleport Homer to work reliably, you can make a case for either Wardens or Allarus. Facing an army that has 1 or 2 annoying characters as a linchpin and want to tie up an entire backline? Go Allarus. Just want a beatstick to smash face and nothing else? Can't go wrong with Wardens. The durability is also fairly similar (4 wounds vs 3 wounds and a 6+++).

Or you can go the funny route and deep strike in a VLR (teleport homer stratagem does say any Adeptus Custodes unit) full of Wardens and go to town

Spartacus wrote:
So after actually getting the codex and properly reading the stratagems, I realised the Vexilla teleport homer actually works on all Custodes units that can deepstrike, not just Allarus Custodes. Not sure why I originally thought that was the case.

Considering this, are Allarus the best unit to be dropping as a DS bomb? My original plan was to use 6 of them, but for that price you can get about 7.5 Wardens (with axes + daggers) or 9 and a half Custodian Guard with spears.

Compared to those options, Allarus have the best shooting (grenades + target characters stratagem), and don't cost an extra CP to teleport. Also the consolidate towards characters thing.

Wardens have the best CC output of the 3 by a good margin, and better durability than the terminators.

The large squad of Custodian Guard are probably slightly more durable most of the time, considering the extra bodies and storm shields, but you miss out on axes which is pretty crucial. They are also troops which is a bonus.

Im still tossing up between the Wardens and the Allarus.

What are some opinions? Whos the best DS bomb?

depends if you want to spend more CP for deepstrike or not, custodes will already be tight as is so I feel Allarus will be the better option for sake of not needing to spend more to do it. Allarus have better shooting than wardens and it really catches them up to warden's over all damage.

Allrus also has an extra wound on wardens which can balance out the 6+ fnp that wardens have.

Main thing I can see if at what point level? If its a 1500 point game I can see wardens and spend the extra cp but in 2k pts game I can see Allarus being better pick to save on CP.

What about DS'ing Dreadnoughts with the Teleport Homer stratagem, directly into meele?

Maybe right now is not that good, but in the future, if we receive the Forgeworld Dreadnoughts...

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
If you can get the Vexilla Teleport Homer to work reliably, you can make a case for either Wardens or Allarus. Facing an army that has 1 or 2 annoying characters as a linchpin and want to tie up an entire backline? Go Allarus. Just want a beatstick to smash face and nothing else? Can't go wrong with Wardens. The durability is also fairly similar (4 wounds vs 3 wounds and a 6+++).

Or you can go the funny route and deep strike in a VLR (teleport homer stratagem does say any Adeptus Custodes unit) full of Wardens and go to town

You won't be able to teleport in the VLR as it does not have the ability to DS through its own abilities or with "From golden light they come". But you can do it with a squad of bikes + Teleport homer

I did mean deep striking the VLR using the Vexilla Teleport Homer strat, sorry if that wasn't clear. Deep striking a Contemptor Galatus or Achillus is the dream though, even if it's just through From Golden Light They Come, that's a huge threat in your opponent's face, especially if there are also Allarus and Vertus Praetors in their faces at the same time. The threat saturation is real.

 Galas wrote:
What about DS'ing Dreadnoughts with the Teleport Homer stratagem, directly into meele?

Maybe right now is not that good, but in the future, if we receive the Forgeworld Dreadnoughts...

Could be done, but If I were spending 3 CP to ensure I can drop something straight into CC, I wanna be able to absolutely annihilate its target. Dreadnoughts only have 4 attacks. I hope the FW ones get some decent rules too.

depends if you want to spend more CP for deepstrike or not, custodes will already be tight as is so I feel Allarus will be the better option for sake of not needing to spend more to do it. Allarus have better shooting than wardens and it really catches them up to warden's over all damage.

Allrus also has an extra wound on wardens which can balance out the 6+ fnp that wardens have.

Main thing I can see if at what point level? If its a 1500 point game I can see wardens and spend the extra cp but in 2k pts game I can see Allarus being better pick to save on CP.

Yes I think you're right about the extra CP, every little bit helps. I usually play 2k and my regular opponents all have tasty character targets to be shot up, so will probably be going with Terminators to start with. Fact that I haven't bought any Wardens yet also helps the decision

Would like to try both eventually for sure.

Edit: Thinking about it further, I think the terminators will also be the most useful if you are forced to drop them in without the use of the Vexilla homer. The tactic with Praetorian plate is not a surefire thing. Also your Vexilla may be killed prematurely, or you might feel you need your guys to drop in a turn or 2 early to take advantage of some battlefield situation which arises. Everyone is a long shot on the charge from 9 inches, but at least the Termies have decent shooting if they can't make the charge.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
I did mean deep striking the VLR using the Vexilla Teleport Homer strat, sorry if that wasn't clear. Deep striking a Contemptor Galatus or Achillus is the dream though, even if it's just through From Golden Light They Come, that's a huge threat in your opponent's face, especially if there are also Allarus and Vertus Praetors in their faces at the same time. The threat saturation is real.

The Vexilla teleport homer strategem requires a unit that is deepstriking. It does not grant it itself.
A VLR does not have the ability to deepstrike and is not a viable target for the "From Golden Light they come" stratagem.

Going to be playing a 2k points game this thursday, im bringing everything i have for custodes and i have to laugh that it is only 19 models. Will be my first time trying out the allarus and codex. I'll post a battle report afterwards but here is my list. (ill be getting some jet bikes at a later date, i'm not a fan of how they look even though they are pretty awesome rules wise and will easily replace the dread or land raider.

Do you guys think the Praetors will go up in points the next update? They're definitely the best unit in the codex, but I don't see a jetbike heavy list beating any Imperial/Chaos/Ynnari soup or any of the top lists in the current meta


PS: Ran a 1500 Vanguard yesterday against Deathwatch. Popped 3 Allarus in his backfield and used Unleash The Lions, they got 7 wounds on a Predator (by shooting) and it took two turns of shooting to take them down, which was more than enough for the bikes to arrive and clean up

If the bikes are increased in price rather than the rest of the units being reduced, GW will prove they have no idea what they're doing.

The reason we're all using bikes is that they're, essentially, the only point-viable unit.

Kzraahk wrote:
Do you guys think the Praetors will go up in points the next update? They're definitely the best unit in the codex, but I don't see a jetbike heavy list beating any Imperial/Chaos/Ynnari soup or any of the top lists in the current meta

No, the next update is in March and Custodes only came out in late January and the Vertus Praetors in February. There won't have been enough time to gather data.

It's highly unlikely there will be any points changes to any Custodes units until the September patch. (Same reason why Craftworlds didn't get changes in Chapter Approved.)

All of that aside, I have two lists im working with. Feel free to give me some feedback.


List 1, using Terminators.




Second list, all Bike focused.



List 1 is 2k points on the nose, list 2 has some leeway with adding additional infantry, etc.

Both feel powerful, and I'm excited to test them. Each one abusing the AM Battalion to act as a CP Battery, while also each having 8 CP base.

Any opinions?

Warhammer Community team finally got back to me on the "sword only" option. Confirmed, it's legal.

https://business.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1905700509750579&id=1575682476085719&comment_id=1968201046833858&reply_comment_id=1969139410073355

1, thats not a very hard confirmation.
2, few if any here questioned its legality.
3, The sword only is the least important part of this discussion.

The real meat is trying to use the squad upgrade Vexilla and again, while maybe technically legal I would strongly advise against it from the spirit of the rules.

While I agree with you it's entirely allowed, I wouldn't take anything GW Facebook marketing guys say as gospel. They're regularly incorrect.

Ordana wrote:
1, thats not a very hard confirmation.
2, few if any here questioned its legality.
3, The sword only is the least important part of this discussion.

The real meat is trying to use the squad upgrade Vexilla and again, while maybe technically legal I would strongly advise against it from the spirit of the rules.

But its pretty darn important. As a 49 point custode is pretty tempting vs a 52 point custode, as the cheapest troop available to us in a pure list.

In a minimum detachment thats saving a whooping 27 points!

Hypothetically, if your main opponent was Space Marines, I'd rather have 17 sword guys than 16 spear guys. Or, alternatively, a Sword and knife guy is only one point more than a spear. Get that guy next to a Vexillia and he has 5 attacks. Not too shabby.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Hypothetically, if your main opponent was Space Marines, I'd rather have 17 sword guys than 16 spear guys. Or, alternatively, a Sword and knife guy is only one point more than a spear. Get that guy next to a Vexillia and he has 5 attacks. Not too shabby.

You are here ignoring the shooting of the spears. In meele, theres no difference vs SM between Sword of Spear, you are correct. But you have to have shooting in acount.