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2018/03/02 06:27:04
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Alright, so my changes were to remove the 2nd Praetor, change the Defensor into a Magnifica (complete oversight in the first list), then I was still above 2000 Pts so I cut Trajann for a second Shield Captain in Termie Armor and a Culexus Assassin. I also update units to have axes instead of spears. Sitting around 1994 points, the Culexus gives us some play in the psychic phase. What do you think of those changes?
2018/03/02 07:23:46
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
KampfKrote wrote: Alright, so my changes were to remove the 2nd Praetor, change the Defensor into a Magnifica (complete oversight in the first list), then I was still above 2000 Pts so I cut Trajann for a second Shield Captain in Termie Armor and a Culexus Assassin. I also update units to have axes instead of spears. Sitting around 1994 points, the Culexus gives us some play in the psychic phase. What do you think of those changes?
problem with the assasin is then you lose the detachment bonus. that's entirely up to you but you could also squeeze another custodes guard or allarus terminator into the list instead.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2018/03/02 08:01:20
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
KampfKrote wrote: You can keep the detachment bonus if you take -1 CP for the Aux Support Detachment, right? I hope I haven’t been doing this wrong :/ lol.
You haven't! That's right!
2018/03/02 20:25:59
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Odrankt wrote: Hey guys, I got some money for my Birthday and looking to do a purchase. I am either going to buy a Razorwing or Voidraven.
I was just wondering what is the general consensus on these 2 flyers? Are they any good, do the work the same way, which is better etc.
I would also like to know the general sizes of these as well if possible. If both of them are around the same size I will probably buy 2 Razorwings and just play them as either of them. But, if the Voidraven is quite bigger then I will get one of those instead.
Thanks for the help!
Have you tried one of the Heretic Xenos threads rather then the Emperors personal bodyguard for filthy xenos questions?
2018/03/02 20:29:41
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Odrankt wrote: Hey guys, I got some money for my Birthday and looking to do a purchase. I am either going to buy a Razorwing or Voidraven.
I was just wondering what is the general consensus on these 2 flyers? Are they any good, do the work the same way, which is better etc.
I would also like to know the general sizes of these as well if possible. If both of them are around the same size I will probably buy 2 Razorwings and just play them as either of them. But, if the Voidraven is quite bigger then I will get one of those instead.
Thanks for the help!
Have you tried one of the Heretic Xenos threads rather then the Emperors personal bodyguard for filthy xenos questions?
Hit the wrong threat bud, they were next to each other. I also fixed that in my previous post.
Back from a hiatus and just read the new codex. Is it just me or are Vertus Praetors and their Shield-Captain counterpart terrifyingly strong and mobile? They give me vibes of old school Thunderwolf cavalry, so I’m wondering if building a full list of solely bikes would be viable.
I saw with eyes then young, and this is my testament.
2018/03/02 21:14:12
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Aetare wrote: Back from a hiatus and just read the new codex. Is it just me or are Vertus Praetors and their Shield-Captain counterpart terrifyingly strong and mobile? They give me vibes of old school Thunderwolf cavalry, so I’m wondering if building a full list of solely bikes would be viable.
They're terrifying compared to the rest of Custodes units, which aren't very good.
Compared to everything else in the game though, they're just fine.
They're definitely the best units in the codex. I'd say the Vertus Praetors compare favorably with other similarly-costed units in the game. A Dark Angels Talonmaster is the closest thing I can think of off the top my head, and it's about twice as expensive.
2018/03/02 22:28:06
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
How are y'all {ALL} jetbike jedis doing versus competitive Chaos armies?
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/03/02 22:52:31
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
MilkmanAl wrote: They're definitely the best units in the codex. I'd say the Vertus Praetors compare favorably with other similarly-costed units in the game. A Dark Angels Talonmaster is the closest thing I can think of off the top my head, and it's about twice as expensive.
Fair assessment. Those hurricane Bolters combined with bonuses on the charge seem really funny all ranges.
I saw with eyes then young, and this is my testament.
2018/03/03 05:53:03
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The thing about bikes is there are units that can charge them and survive... then they can’t charge the next turn. That’s a solid counter tactic.
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/03/03 17:02:43
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Primark G wrote: The thing about bikes is there are units that can charge them and survive... then they can’t charge the next turn. That’s a solid counter tactic.
Very true, but unless those units are also resistant to bolter fire it's just delaying the inevitable. Bikers do more damage to low T/Sv units at close range with hurricane bolters than spears. If it's something like a knight or a primarch...it's going to get charged by everything else next turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aetare wrote: Back from a hiatus and just read the new codex. Is it just me or are Vertus Praetors and their Shield-Captain counterpart terrifyingly strong and mobile? They give me vibes of old school Thunderwolf cavalry, so I’m wondering if building a full list of solely bikes would be viable.
Let's compare a 90 pt bike to 81 pts of dark reapers:
3 Reapers shooting at a bike with starshot: 3 shots/2 hits/1.33 wounds/0.67 unsaved=2 damage
Starswarm: 6 shots/4 hits/1.33 wounds/0.67 unsaved=1.33 damage
Hurricane bolter at Reapers (24"): 6 shots/5 hits/3.33 wounds=1.11 wounds. At 12" bike does 2.22 unsaved wounds.
Obviously it's not a fractional game, but the math says that it's not outside the realm of possibility for a bike to win a shootout against dark reapers, depending on the range (we know who wins in close combat). Note that regardless of profile though you need 2 unsaved wounds from the reapers to kill a bike, and this doesn't include Strength from Death effects (shooting twice).
There is a specific profile that works well against bikes: S7+, AP-2, D4+ (or D2+ with high volume). Those weapons are rare. T6 makes them resistant to most anti-infantry weapons, 2+ means you need good AP and 4++ means that you need 2 lascannon wounds to kill one. Not to mention that 4 wounds makes them able to take 2 of the D3 wounds that you'll normally bring for bikes and terminators. Are there counters? Sure. My point, however, is that those counters are unlikely to be taken in the quantities needed to kill or cripple an army of bikes before they start taking your army apart. For more math on their resiliency and discussion of counters see a few pages back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/03 17:28:50
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2018/03/03 17:33:49
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Plasma is the scariest thing for jetbikes, I think. It’s also the reason the vexillum magnifica is so good. Nobody with a plasma gun wants a penalty to hit. It’s useless against reapers though, of course.
2018/03/03 17:52:42
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Mandragola wrote: Plasma is the scariest thing for jetbikes, I think. It’s also the reason the vexillum magnifica is so good. Nobody with a plasma gun wants a penalty to hit. It’s useless against reapers though, of course.
Yep, especially since you have to overcharge to make it worthwhile, and even then it takes 2 unsaved wounds to kill a bike. Plus, 24" (most plasma) means that any surviving bikes will move 14", unload hurricane bolters on you, and then probably attempt a 10" charge. I did the math on Dark Reapers since they are widely regarded as the most OP unit in the game right now.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2018/03/04 08:03:48
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Mandragola wrote: Plasma is the scariest thing for jetbikes, I think. It’s also the reason the vexillum magnifica is so good. Nobody with a plasma gun wants a penalty to hit. It’s useless against reapers though, of course.
reaper gatling cannon equivalents are the scariest thing for a bike, but plasma is close behind
2018/03/04 12:10:04
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
What do people think of (hold your laughter) GK as allies for custodes? For 190 pts Voldus gives 3 denies, and dropping some strikes on objectives would give additional denial bubbles. The biggest issue is 1) everything else GK do custodes already do better and cheaper and 2) GK struggle with CP generation as well. A pure detchament gives strike squads obsec and +1 to denial, so I see basically 3 options:
Patrol: Voldus, 1 strike (4 denies, 295 pts)
Outrider: Voldus, 3 interceptors (6 denies, 565 pts, +1 CP)
Battalion: Voldus, GMDK/Bro Champ, 3 strikes (7 denies, 755/620 pts, +3 CP)
Or you could do Voldus+2 brotherhood champions in a supreme command for 420 pts (5 denies, +1 CP), but brotherhood champions suck.
Along the same lines, primaris psykers and SM librarians offer similar capabilities, just without the +1 deny (unless you’re within 12” for the psychic hood). A Culexus is nice, but I think actually being able to throw dice to deny is potentially useful depending on the meta.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2018/03/04 18:57:14
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
greyknight12 wrote: What do people think of (hold your laughter) GK as allies for custodes? For 190 pts Voldus gives 3 denies, and dropping some strikes on objectives would give additional denial bubbles. The biggest issue is 1) everything else GK do custodes already do better and cheaper and 2) GK struggle with CP generation as well. A pure detchament gives strike squads obsec and +1 to denial, so I see basically 3 options:
Patrol: Voldus, 1 strike (4 denies, 295 pts)
Outrider: Voldus, 3 interceptors (6 denies, 565 pts, +1 CP)
Battalion: Voldus, GMDK/Bro Champ, 3 strikes (7 denies, 755/620 pts, +3 CP)
Or you could do Voldus+2 brotherhood champions in a supreme command for 420 pts (5 denies, +1 CP), but brotherhood champions suck.
Along the same lines, primaris psykers and SM librarians offer similar capabilities, just without the +1 deny (unless you’re within 12” for the psychic hood). A Culexus is nice, but I think actually being able to throw dice to deny is potentially useful depending on the meta.
GK is a decent option I think. Not ideal in terms of CP as you say, but they bring the best source of mass psychic denial points can buy, which Custodes sorely need. Native deepstrike combos well with earthbound Custodes as well.
I think from a purely min-maxing perspective, you'd be better off taking a soup battalion detachment with Greyfax, Primaris psyker(s), Platoon commander warlord, Culexus (Culexi?) and SM scouts or guardsmen. Its more bang for less buck but its also horrific from a narrative POV and I wouldn't enjoy taking it to a game.
Also, in this age before the smite nerf, Rites of Banishment is a little extra assurance against the daemon primarchs and such.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/04 18:59:24
2018/03/04 19:01:04
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
BrianDavion wrote: thematicly Grey Knights and custodes make an intreasting team too
They don't get along too well in the fluff
Can't imagine why a bunch of Marines believing to be of the Emperor's Genes would piss off the Emperor's Companions and most faithful servants...
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2018/03/04 20:22:52
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/03/05 03:07:38
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
So over the last few days I have become rather infatuated with Vertus Praetors and Shield-Captains on Jetbikes, and I now own 12. I’m curious what you all think of this 2000 Point list for friendlies vs a Tyranids player.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
