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So over the last few days I have become rather infatuated with Vertus Praetors and Shield-Captains on Jetbikes, and I now own 12.

Story of my life

KampfKrote wrote:
So over the last few days I have become rather infatuated with Vertus Praetors and Shield-Captains on Jetbikes, and I now own 12. I’m curious what you all think of this 2000 Point list for friendlies vs a Tyranids player.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [52 PL, 1021pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Open the Vaults (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Auric Aquilis, Hurricane Bolter, Impregnable Mind, Warlord

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [11 PL, 231pts]
. Custodian: Misericordia, Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 168pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 168pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

+ Elites +

Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor [7 PL, 134pts]: Misericordia, Vexilla Magnifica

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [54 PL, 970pts] ++

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [15 PL, 270pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

Vertus Praetors [15 PL, 270pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

Vertus Praetors [15 PL, 270pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

++ Total: [106 PL, 1991pts] ++

Lots of bikes, some footsloggers to gum up/hold off anything that comes in behind the bikes. C&C appreciated as always

I found your list lack of high strength shooting / Close combat attack, outside of the Bikers on their charge, you might lack of reliable ways to put wounds on Nidz monsters which are now T7 / 8. It might be better to try incorporate a few Salvo Launcher on the bikes for anti MC shooting. And try to have someone cartying those Axes. S8 melee is important VS Nidz monsters, while the lose of 1-2 points in AP is relatively ok because of those 4++ those monsters might have.

I can’t say enough the importance of S8 for Custodes. I’d work in some Allarus.

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [78 PL, 1520pts] ++

+ HQ +

Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor [8 PL, 148pts]: Castellan Axe, Misericordia

Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor [8 PL, 148pts]: Castellan Axe, Misericordia

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [11 PL, 215pts]
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 156pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 156pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [13 PL, 252pts]
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe

Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor [7 PL, 130pts]: Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [15 PL, 315pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [27 PL, 480pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Open the Vaults (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Auric Aquilis, Hurricane Bolter, Warlord

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter

++ Total: [105 PL, 2000pts] ++

This is what I updated to. Obviously had to cut bikes to make room for termies, but it also made room for a SCDetachment so I still get the 1 extra CP. I fit in 5 axes between the Shield captains in termie armor and the squad of three, and I was able to put Salvo Launchers on the squad of bikes.

I played a tournament on Saturday with 3 SC's on Dawneagle Jetbikes and they are flat out amazing to use. So mobile, so tough, so deadly. My new favourite unit in 40k by far.

They don't like Thunder Hammers very much though. 3 Death Company killed one, and a Slamguinius took one out with contemptuous ease when he got to attack first.

Stooping Dive is just... incredible. There are strong tactics that I am going to practice around keeping the jetbike behind your front line - about 5" or 6" behind a high value unit - and using it as a deterrent for charges, or as bait to get in a counter charge on their turn. The couple of times I did it, it worked better than putting it out front to be shot at and charged.

KampfKrote wrote:
So over the last few days I have become rather infatuated with Vertus Praetors and Shield-Captains on Jetbikes, and I now own 12. I’m curious what you all think of this 2000 Point list for friendlies vs a Tyranids player.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [52 PL, 1021pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Open the Vaults (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Auric Aquilis, Hurricane Bolter, Impregnable Mind, Warlord

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [11 PL, 231pts]
. Custodian: Misericordia, Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 168pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 168pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

+ Elites +

Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor [7 PL, 134pts]: Misericordia, Vexilla Magnifica

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [54 PL, 970pts] ++

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [15 PL, 270pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

Vertus Praetors [15 PL, 270pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

Vertus Praetors [15 PL, 270pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

++ Total: [106 PL, 1991pts] ++

Lots of bikes, some footsloggers to gum up/hold off anything that comes in behind the bikes. C&C appreciated as always

I played a list like this on Saturday. He had 2 units of Vertus Praetors and 1 unit of 5 Allarus Terminators with Castellan Axes who deep struck. He managed to get the Allarus Vexlilla model in a tiny gap, then could deep strike the Terminators in 3" away! A bit scary.

I won, and I feel it was because for most of the game it was my 2000 points against 1500 points of his Custodes, while the other 500+ points of standard Custodian Guard squads stood around on objectives on the other side of the board, then tried to walk over to me. If all they contribute is a couple of bolter shots, they are never going to make their points back.

They scored points but they are a very expensive objective holder!

I like the new list a lot better.

Spartacus wrote:
I think from a purely min-maxing perspective, you'd be better off taking a soup battalion detachment with Greyfax, Primaris psyker(s), Platoon commander warlord, Culexus (Culexi?) and SM scouts or guardsmen. Its more bang for less buck but its also horrific from a narrative POV and I wouldn't enjoy taking it to a game.

Agree on the battalion, and just thought of a smaller option:
Vanguard detachment: Greyfax, 2 astropaths, 1 Culexus. 242 pts, +1 CP, gives a 18” -2 to cast bubble, 2 normal denies, 2 +1 denies. If you need more, custodes have a denial warlord trait and you can add 1 deny/36 pts with additional astropaths. I’m struggling to find something cheaper than an astropath, if you just want grefax’s denies you could sub in a couple acolytes for the astropaths and save some points (-56/2 denies). Really I’m not sure how many you actually need; with the beta smite nerf (no longer beta in ITC) you only need a couple for smite and then some for the other powers we care about. Maybe 5ish in a list, with the option to warlord trait an additional after looking at your opponents’ list?

 Silentz wrote:


I played a list like this on Saturday. He had 2 units of Vertus Praetors and 1 unit of 5 Allarus Terminators with Castellan Axes who deep struck. He managed to get the Allarus Vexlilla model in a tiny gap, then could deep strike the Terminators in 3" away! A bit scary.

I think the Vexilla has to be on the board at the start of the turn to use that stratagem, so he shouldn't have been able to deepstrike both using it in the same turn.

Yes the Vexilla must be on the table at the start of the turn.

This was T2. He dropped the vexilla guy in a space that was about the size of 2 bases right in my back corner on turn 1 behind my tanks. I shot 2 full lemans at the Vexilla but with his -1 to hit he survived.

Poor screening really but you get so used to having to defend against squads deep striking. Having one model on a regular base appear requires serious attention!

 Silentz wrote:
This was T2. He dropped the vexilla guy in a space that was about the size of 2 bases right in my back corner on turn 1 behind my tanks. I shot 2 full lemans at the Vexilla but with his -1 to hit he survived.

Poor screening really but you get so used to having to defend against squads deep striking. Having one model on a regular base appear requires serious attention!

Hmm fair enough then. Not an easy target to take down by any means especially when given a storm shield. You'd have to smite him to death or something.

Nice to see the Russes falling flat.

They're funny things, the Russes.

My tank commander with 2d6 + 2d3 shots of S8 shooting, hitting on 3's and rerolling 1's is great. Pretty happy with him. Stick Nightshroud on him for -1 to hit. Lovely stuff.

My punisher firing 49 S5 shots is very useful indeed - even against custodes using the "fishing for 1's" tactic. I like to Ambush him near the opponent with an infantry squad screen to disrupt their plans.

The standard russ... doesn't typically do a lot. Let's be honest. particularly hitting on 5s or 6s. I might drop this for 180 points of something else.

BUT people love to shoot and assault them... they are scary things and are a nice big bullet magnet. You can park them right at the back and the opponent gets all obsessed with taking them out.

I'm not sure what else that 180 points buys me which I have in my collection or can be arsed to paint, and has the same punch.

Hi guys, currently in the process of getting my custodes ready, and I've decided on a list that might not be super competitive, it's basically for me to practice a few things in a friendly game with a more experienced opponent helping.

So, here is my list! I have purposely not gone for praetus bikes, as our group has a very densely packed table and I don't actually own any yet...


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [100 PL, 2000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Open the Vaults (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor [8 PL, 148pts]: Castellan Axe, Emperor's Companion, Misericordia, Warlord

Shield-Captain [7 PL, 128pts]: Castellan Axe, Misericordia, Raiment of Sorrows

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [14 PL, 280pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

Custodian Guard Squad [14 PL, 280pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

Custodian Guard Squad [11 PL, 224pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [13 PL, 264pts]
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe, Misericordia
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe, Misericordia
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe, Misericordia

Custodian Wardens [10 PL, 201pts]
. Warden: Castellan Axe, Misericordia
. Warden: Castellan Axe, Misericordia
. Warden: Castellan Axe, Misericordia

Venerable Contemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 197pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought Combat Weapon, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon

Vexillus Praetor [6 PL, 124pts]: Castellan Axe, Vexilla Magnifica

Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor [7 PL, 154pts]: Misericordia, Vexilla Imperius

++ Total: [100 PL, 2000pts] ++

Yeah, I'm only running Cadian Tank Commanders and/or Pask anymore...tired of standard russes doing a big nothing. On the Custode side I picked up the codex and three boxes of bikes for the standard outrider detatchment - I think we may see a lot of that going around...and the models are awesome

Need one more bike for the shield captain but I don't want to have to pay for a whole other box...so 10 bikes, 20 krieg death riders and 90+ guard dudes with lascannons and mortars...can't wait to try that one out

The thing about Russes are they are slow and really easy to kill now.

Anyone else feeling the fire under their boots about Bike Captains getting the Commander treatment?

I can't imagine it being the case, as Bike Captains aren't running rampant and defining the competitive game, and Custodes don't have enough HQ Options otherwise (As they're literally all Shield Captains), but...

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous.

Possible and perfectly fine imo.

It will make the people who hate soup happy without overly hurting actual Custodes players.
Normal bikers are better value then captains anyway.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Anyone else feeling the fire under their boots about Bike Captains getting the Commander treatment?

I can't imagine it being the case, as Bike Captains aren't running rampant and defining the competitive game, and Custodes don't have enough HQ Options otherwise (As they're literally all Shield Captains), but...

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous.

I honestly doubt they will. Triple bike captain isn't that big a deal as a graft-on detachment, just like triple Dreadknight Grandmaster isn't for GK.

What I worry about changing is that, right now, Custodes only have one 0 point piece of wargear in the Codex: the Lance. I'm worried that gets some type of cost and all bikes go up as a result.

Where did the idea come from that this commander fix would be applied universally? Seems like a forum idea thats been blown out of proportion.

If bike captains prove to be OP when spammed, people will complain and GW will react or not accordingly. I dont think there really any more method to their madness than this.

 Ordana wrote:
Possible and perfectly fine imo.

It will make the people who hate soup happy without overly hurting actual Custodes players.
Normal bikers are better value then captains anyway.

Not entirely an accurate statement, due to the nature of the character rule.

That being said, I'm just spitfiring here folks. I'm seeing all sorts of casual players screaming for the limiting of Tyrants, Captains and the like. I'm just hoping we're not next-- I don't think it's a valid change, and I *do* think it would harm custodes, by nature of them only having captains as available options, but only time will tell I suppose.

Saw a recent game DawnEagleLuv versus daemons... Daemons pretty much smited the Dawneagles off the table in two turns.

generally speaking the Tau Commanders are substentially better in every way then crisis suits, jetbikes don't have that problem, they have the re-roll aura and 3 extra wounds and thats about it

BrianDavion wrote:
generally speaking the Tau Commanders are substentially better in every way then crisis suits, jetbikes don't have that problem, they have the re-roll aura and 3 extra wounds and thats about it

Or in other words, for 20 extra points you get +1 wound, +3 attacks, and +rapid-fire 6 boltgun shots by taking 2 bikes over a shield captain. Obviously a 3++ makes a difference, but you can only give it to 2 captains max (and it costs a CP).

 Primark G wrote:
Saw a recent game DawnEagleLuv versus daemons... Daemons pretty much smited the Dawneagles off the table in two turns.

Smite is the great equalizer of all things in 8th.

Having access to it, or to deny it, is always going to be important.

I was wondering about the Vexillus praetor with a Vexilla Magnifica good vs tau? And and what would you recommend vs Tau including the Custodes beta rules?

Are you planning to play pure Custodes?

 nordsturmking wrote:
I was wondering about the Vexillus praetor with a Vexilla Magnifica good vs tau? And and what would you recommend vs Tau including the Custodes beta rules?

It has it's worth vs T'au, but, it just means they need to stack 5 markerlights to negate it. If they manage that, i can see them being able to drop a min squad or 2 a turn.

As for vs T'au, i think the best bet is bikes - unfortunately. You're going to need the dakka to take out the Drones and Fire Warrior screens, and the mobility to chase suits down. I do love the Dreadspear Dreadnought, but, unless you can screen it, it's going to die very quickly vs T'au, from either Ion Hammerheads, Riptides, Broadsides or Crisis Suits dropping in to instantly blow it up.

 nordsturmking wrote:
I was wondering about the Vexillus praetor with a Vexilla Magnifica good vs tau? And and what would you recommend vs Tau including the Custodes beta rules?

The Vexilla Magnifica is good against just about anyone; it keeps you alive long enough to get into melee where your actual damage happens.

There isn't really much about Tau that pushes your builds one way or another; they're a gunline with reasonably effective chaff and hard targets packing a lot of firepower, you don't really need to tweak anything to handle them specifically. Things to worry about with Custodes:
--Drones: Tau Battlesuits (including some of the really big ones) can allocate incoming Wounds to drones; this is done per-wound rather than per-hit, so your multi-damage attacks aren't necessarily better-off shooting the drone than the battlesuit. Weaker shots into heavier battlesuits (staff-bolters that would wound a Riptide on a 5+ going into a 3+ modified armour save, for instance) and any single-damage shots (hurricane bolters, Allarus wrist grenades) should target the drones first, however. The drones interfere with any ranged alpha-strike potential that the beta rules' bigger guns offer; the Caladius and the las-talons on the Dreadnaughts are still useful, but use them carefully lest you find yourself wasting firepower on said drones.
--Markerlights: The aforementioned drone problem and our lack of long-range shooting makes clearing Pathfinders early more of a problem than it is for other armies. Stick hard to the Vexilla Magnifica on the first turn or two so their markerlights only hit you on 5+; they can still get markerlights through but you'll force them to burn command points on the Networked Markerlight stratagem. Keep in mind that Pathfinders are single-Wound T3/5+ models and task Vertus bolters with clearing them if possible. Remember that all these big scary non-Commander battlesuits are BS4+ with no rerolls if there aren't any Markerlights on the table.
--Fly and damage tables: Riptides, Ghostkeels, and the FW Riptide variants' BS goes down when they drop past half health; they may have Fly so you can't lock them in combat, but if you can deny them their Markerlights it's usually enough to cripple them.
--Deepstrike-chicken: Most of the time you want everything on the table immediately since your army needs to get a quick lead on damage to perform well, but Tau can and will hold fusion-suits to drop in and blast down some Custodians where you really don't want them to. There's not a huge amount you can do about it, but Tau are one of the few armies against which I'd actually recommend having a few Sentinel Guard (shield/blade Guard models) to interfere with said fusion-suits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kdash wrote:
...It has it's worth vs T'au, but, it just means they need to stack 5 markerlights to negate it. If they manage that, i can see them being able to drop a min squad or 2 a turn...

One of the great things about the Vexilla Magnifica against Tau is that their Pathfinders are hitting with said Markerlights on a 5+. You don't stop them from getting 5 Markerlights, but you usually force them to burn CP on Networked Markerlights to do it and making their big suits hit on a 4+ instead of a 3+ is still useful.

Primark G wrote:Are you planning to play pure Custodes?

Yes i do. its a casual game so i don't want to ally AM or some thing.

Kdash wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
I was wondering about the Vexillus praetor with a Vexilla Magnifica good vs tau? And and what would you recommend vs Tau including the Custodes beta rules?

It has it's worth vs T'au, but, it just means they need to stack 5 markerlights to negate it. If they manage that, i can see them being able to drop a min squad or 2 a turn.

As for vs T'au, i think the best bet is bikes - unfortunately. You're going to need the dakka to take out the Drones and Fire Warrior screens, and the mobility to chase suits down. I do love the Dreadspear Dreadnought, but, unless you can screen it, it's going to die very quickly vs T'au, from either Ion Hammerheads, Riptides, Broadsides or Crisis Suits dropping in to instantly blow it up.

What about teleporting it on to the battlefield and try to charge on first turn?

AnomanderRake wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
I was wondering about the Vexillus praetor with a Vexilla Magnifica good vs tau? And and what would you recommend vs Tau including the Custodes beta rules?

The Vexilla Magnifica is good against just about anyone; it keeps you alive long enough to get into melee where your actual damage happens.

There isn't really much about Tau that pushes your builds one way or another; they're a gunline with reasonably effective chaff and hard targets packing a lot of firepower, you don't really need to tweak anything to handle them specifically. Things to worry about with Custodes:
--Drones: Tau Battlesuits (including some of the really big ones) can allocate incoming Wounds to drones; this is done per-wound rather than per-hit, so your multi-damage attacks aren't necessarily better-off shooting the drone than the battlesuit. Weaker shots into heavier battlesuits (staff-bolters that would wound a Riptide on a 5+ going into a 3+ modified armour save, for instance) and any single-damage shots (hurricane bolters, Allarus wrist grenades) should target the drones first, however. The drones interfere with any ranged alpha-strike potential that the beta rules' bigger guns offer; the Caladius and the las-talons on the Dreadnaughts are still useful, but use them carefully lest you find yourself wasting firepower on said drones.
--Markerlights: The aforementioned drone problem and our lack of long-range shooting makes clearing Pathfinders early more of a problem than it is for other armies. Stick hard to the Vexilla Magnifica on the first turn or two so their markerlights only hit you on 5+; they can still get markerlights through but you'll force them to burn command points on the Networked Markerlight stratagem. Keep in mind that Pathfinders are single-Wound T3/5+ models and task Vertus bolters with clearing them if possible. Remember that all these big scary non-Commander battlesuits are BS4+ with no rerolls if there aren't any Markerlights on the table.
--Fly and damage tables: Riptides, Ghostkeels, and the FW Riptide variants' BS goes down when they drop past half health; they may have Fly so you can't lock them in combat, but if you can deny them their Markerlights it's usually enough to cripple them.
--Deepstrike-chicken: Most of the time you want everything on the table immediately since your army needs to get a quick lead on damage to perform well, but Tau can and will hold fusion-suits to drop in and blast down some Custodians where you really don't want them to. There's not a huge amount you can do about it, but Tau are one of the few armies against which I'd actually recommend having a few Sentinel Guard (shield/blade Guard models) to interfere with said fusion-suits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kdash wrote:
...It has it's worth vs T'au, but, it just means they need to stack 5 markerlights to negate it. If they manage that, i can see them being able to drop a min squad or 2 a turn...

One of the great things about the Vexilla Magnifica against Tau is that their Pathfinders are hitting with said Markerlights on a 5+. You don't stop them from getting 5 Markerlights, but you usually force them to burn CP on Networked Markerlights to do it and making their big suits hit on a 4+ instead of a 3+ is still useful.

Thanks for your detailed answer. I think i will take one Vexillus Praetor. I was planning on taking the Caladius grav tank and maybe a LR to kill tanks, Riptides and so on. What do you think good idea or will the Tau kill the LR in turn one?