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The missiles give his army some ranged anti tank which none of his other units provide so it works for him.

 Primark G wrote:
I have often explained in-depth the strengths of Allarus and the weaknesses of Vertus Praetors.


I did my statistical analysis of (A) Trajann and Allarus Custodians versus (B) Shield-Captain mounted on a dawneagle and Vertus Praetors against a Baneblade chassis in one round of melee.

I picked a unit of three Allarus Custodians and a unit of three Vertus Praetors since this is what you typically see in actual army lists. I convert the net results for both groups into points divided by wounds to determine overall punch. I believe this approach provides more tangible results.

Group (A) does 20 total unsaved wounds while group (B) does 17. Group (A) is rated at 25.7 points per wound while (B) is 26.2. The difference is 0.5 which imo is insignificant.

Please post your math. I posted my math, and point for point, the Praetors are more than 150 times as likely to one-round a Baneblade as the Allarus are.

Has anyone tried out the Caladius yet? Seems a bit overcosted but really solid

So how about I model the jetbikes with a Hurricane Bolter on the left and Salvo Launcher on the right and use what my list demands. Will I get in trouble for that?

Kzraahk wrote:
Has anyone tried out the Caladius yet? Seems a bit overcosted but really solid

If you look earlier in the thread I tried it out a lot. It's actually really good, but it costs a bit too much. It'll still get destroyed pretty fast by even a glance from your opponent's anti-tank so you want to abuse it's massive range and move, but this is a perverse incentive cause you ALSO don't want it to get the -1 to Hit for moving and shooting.

So it needs Power of the Machine Spirit and a slight points drop, but if you're running pure Custodes it will do faaaaaaar more work for you than the missile launchers on the bikes.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
I have often explained in-depth the strengths of Allarus and the weaknesses of Vertus Praetors.


I did my statistical analysis of (A) Trajann and Allarus Custodians versus (B) Shield-Captain mounted on a dawneagle and Vertus Praetors against a Baneblade chassis in one round of melee.

I picked a unit of three Allarus Custodians and a unit of three Vertus Praetors since this is what you typically see in actual army lists. I convert the net results for both groups into points divided by wounds to determine overall punch. I believe this approach provides more tangible results.

Group (A) does 20 total unsaved wounds while group (B) does 17. Group (A) is rated at 25.7 points per wound while (B) is 26.2. The difference is 0.5 which imo is insignificant.

Please post your math. I posted my math, and point for point, the Praetors are more than 150 times as likely to one-round a Baneblade as the Allarus are.

I will post my calcs tomorrow since I left them at work.

 Primark G wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
I have often explained in-depth the strengths of Allarus and the weaknesses of Vertus Praetors.


I did my statistical analysis of (A) Trajann and Allarus Custodians versus (B) Shield-Captain mounted on a dawneagle and Vertus Praetors against a Baneblade chassis in one round of melee.

I picked a unit of three Allarus Custodians and a unit of three Vertus Praetors since this is what you typically see in actual army lists. I convert the net results for both groups into points divided by wounds to determine overall punch. I believe this approach provides more tangible results.

Group (A) does 20 total unsaved wounds while group (B) does 17. Group (A) is rated at 25.7 points per wound while (B) is 26.2. The difference is 0.5 which imo is insignificant.

Please post your math. I posted my math, and point for point, the Praetors are more than 150 times as likely to one-round a Baneblade as the Allarus are.

I will post my calcs tomorrow since I left them at work.

Better question, then-is my math wrong? You seemed to accept it earlier-so what has changed?

What's everyone think about modeling both guns on the jetbikes and just use whichever is in the list?

karandrasss wrote:
What's everyone think about modeling both guns on the jetbikes and just use whichever is in the list?

I mean, you can if you want, but in a tournament setting you're not gonna be able to change gear on the fly or your list.

Can the kit be magnetized for that purpose?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
What's everyone think about modeling both guns on the jetbikes and just use whichever is in the list?

I mean, you can if you want, but in a tournament setting you're not gonna be able to change gear on the fly or your list.

Can the kit be magnetized for that purpose?

Not changing gear ofc. What's on the list is what I use, basically just invalidating the "extra" weapon. Will the TO pull the model or something?

karandrasss wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
What's everyone think about modeling both guns on the jetbikes and just use whichever is in the list?

I mean, you can if you want, but in a tournament setting you're not gonna be able to change gear on the fly or your list.

Can the kit be magnetized for that purpose?

Not changing gear ofc. What's on the list is what I use, basically just invalidating the "extra" weapon. Will the TO pull the model or something?

Some will some won't. Most probably won't. One of those things you e-mail and ask in advance.

No need to magnetise them, just build the bikes entirely without the weapons (disregard the instructions) and then push them in from the front once everything's painted. They click in nicely as if they were designed to do so, and you can gently pull them out using your fingernail

Spartacus wrote:
No need to magnetise them, just build the bikes entirely without the weapons (disregard the instructions) and then push them in from the front once everything's painted. They click in nicely as if they were designed to do so, and you can gently pull them out using your fingernail

This will make me hate GW less for including only one bare head out of three sprues that could otherwise have been identical. Thank you.

karandrasss wrote:

This will make me hate GW less for including only one bare head out of three sprues that could otherwise have been identical. Thank you.

Oh, please! If you have a Custodes Army then you should have more then enough bare heads from Allaruses and Wardens to make as many Captains as you want. Just magnetise that heads and go on.

AstraVlad wrote:

karandrasss wrote:

This will make me hate GW less for including only one bare head out of three sprues that could otherwise have been identical. Thank you.

Oh, please! If you have a Custodes Army then you should have more then enough bare heads from Allaruses and Wardens to make as many Captains as you want. Just magnetise that heads and go on.

That doesn't make GW any less obnoxious for not including a couple more 1mm bits of plastic to their $60 kit.

karandrasss wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:

karandrasss wrote:

This will make me hate GW less for including only one bare head out of three sprues that could otherwise have been identical. Thank you.

Oh, please! If you have a Custodes Army then you should have more then enough bare heads from Allaruses and Wardens to make as many Captains as you want. Just magnetise that heads and go on.

That doesn't make GW any less obnoxious for not including a couple more 1mm bits of plastic to their $60 kit.

Eww, why use bare heads? All my Captains wear helmets. GW is King of fugly.

Audustum wrote:

karandrasss wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:

karandrasss wrote:

This will make me hate GW less for including only one bare head out of three sprues that could otherwise have been identical. Thank you.

Oh, please! If you have a Custodes Army then you should have more then enough bare heads from Allaruses and Wardens to make as many Captains as you want. Just magnetise that heads and go on.

That doesn't make GW any less obnoxious for not including a couple more 1mm bits of plastic to their $60 kit.

Eww, why use bear heads? All my Captains wear helmets. GW is King of fugly.

How do you differentiate your captains from regular Custodes?

karandrasss wrote:

Audustum wrote:

karandrasss wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:

karandrasss wrote:

This will make me hate GW less for including only one bare head out of three sprues that could otherwise have been identical. Thank you.

Oh, please! If you have a Custodes Army then you should have more then enough bare heads from Allaruses and Wardens to make as many Captains as you want. Just magnetise that heads and go on.

That doesn't make GW any less obnoxious for not including a couple more 1mm bits of plastic to their $60 kit.

Eww, why use bear heads? All my Captains wear helmets. GW is King of fugly.

How do you differentiate your captains from regular Custodes?

Well for one: the capes. Take the Warden Box for an example. The guy with the massive cape over his shoulders and back is the Captain and he certainly stands out. This is the guy I'm talking about, I just put a helmet on him:


For Custodian Guard, they have a half-skirt that just goes around the back part of their waist. Makes them stand out again. I also re-appropriated their Vexilla to give them wings (the Custodian Guard Vexilla is has two separate eagle wings with chains and tassels. I put those on their shoulders instead). Here's an example of how someone else did it on Google so you can see what I'm talking about:

So just things like that. It's plenty enough to tell them apart.

EDIT: Wow that second pic is huge, someone post with a complaint if you want me to just make it a URL instead.

karandrasss wrote:
I'm surprised by the apparent popularity of Slamguinius. Are you really gonna give up all your CP to kill one thing? What detachment does he go in?

Can I model my jetbikes to have both Salvo Launchers and Hurricane Bolters then use whichever my list demands? What will the typical ITC tourney do if I did?

So if they move, 3 Shield Captains can't even kill a Rhino? Does anyone know how Geoff's list performed at Adepticon with 3x Salvo Shield Captains as the main anti-tank?

I think most tournaments would frown upon putting in 1 of each weapon since it kinda violates the #1 rule for models. There should be no confusion for your opponent what model has what weapon.
Fortunatly the models fit snug enough together that you can simply not glue in the guns and click them in from the front after you have glued the rest together. That way you can switch out weapons as needed.

Yes the BA captain is imo worth the CP cost. But this is talking from a competitive standpoint where you bring allies to up your CP count.
My own list runs an mixed Imperium Battalion with Guard (Plasma Scions + Celestine) for the CP battery (Grand Stratagist + Kurov's aquilla) a BA battalion with the captain + 3x5 scouts (and Mephiston) for area denial and a Custodes outrider with bikes.
That gives me 10 CP, 3 of which are spend pre-game (Relic for Custodes and BA captain and death visions). The remaining 7 CP are more like 10-13 because of returns from the Guard.

The Salvo launchers are not there to actually kill tanks. The list does that by charging them and poking with sharp sticks. The launchers however help to soften up targets and reduce the effectiveness of tanks by degrading them. If you want real AT you need to bring them from allies.

 Ordana wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
I'm surprised by the apparent popularity of Slamguinius. Are you really gonna give up all your CP to kill one thing? What detachment does he go in?

Can I model my jetbikes to have both Salvo Launchers and Hurricane Bolters then use whichever my list demands? What will the typical ITC tourney do if I did?

So if they move, 3 Shield Captains can't even kill a Rhino? Does anyone know how Geoff's list performed at Adepticon with 3x Salvo Shield Captains as the main anti-tank?

I think most tournaments would frown upon putting in 1 of each weapon since it kinda violates the #1 rule for models. There should be no confusion for your opponent what model has what weapon.
Fortunatly the models fit snug enough together that you can simply not glue in the guns and click them in from the front after you have glued the rest together. That way you can switch out weapons as needed.

Yes the BA captain is imo worth the CP cost. But this is talking from a competitive standpoint where you bring allies to up your CP count.
My own list runs an mixed Imperium Battalion with Guard (Plasma Scions + Celestine) for the CP battery (Grand Stratagist + Kurov's aquilla) a BA battalion with the captain + 3x5 scouts (and Mephiston) for area denial and a Custodes outrider with bikes.
That gives me 10 CP, 3 of which are spend pre-game (Relic for Custodes and BA captain and death visions). The remaining 7 CP are more like 10-13 because of returns from the Guard.

The Salvo launchers are not there to actually kill tanks. The list does that by charging them and poking with sharp sticks. The launchers however help to soften up targets and reduce the effectiveness of tanks by degrading them. If you want real AT you need to bring them from allies.

That's more imperium soup than Custodes army, no?

karandrasss wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
I'm surprised by the apparent popularity of Slamguinius. Are you really gonna give up all your CP to kill one thing? What detachment does he go in?

Can I model my jetbikes to have both Salvo Launchers and Hurricane Bolters then use whichever my list demands? What will the typical ITC tourney do if I did?

So if they move, 3 Shield Captains can't even kill a Rhino? Does anyone know how Geoff's list performed at Adepticon with 3x Salvo Shield Captains as the main anti-tank?

I think most tournaments would frown upon putting in 1 of each weapon since it kinda violates the #1 rule for models. There should be no confusion for your opponent what model has what weapon.
Fortunatly the models fit snug enough together that you can simply not glue in the guns and click them in from the front after you have glued the rest together. That way you can switch out weapons as needed.

Yes the BA captain is imo worth the CP cost. But this is talking from a competitive standpoint where you bring allies to up your CP count.
My own list runs an mixed Imperium Battalion with Guard (Plasma Scions + Celestine) for the CP battery (Grand Stratagist + Kurov's aquilla) a BA battalion with the captain + 3x5 scouts (and Mephiston) for area denial and a Custodes outrider with bikes.
That gives me 10 CP, 3 of which are spend pre-game (Relic for Custodes and BA captain and death visions). The remaining 7 CP are more like 10-13 because of returns from the Guard.

The Salvo launchers are not there to actually kill tanks. The list does that by charging them and poking with sharp sticks. The launchers however help to soften up targets and reduce the effectiveness of tanks by degrading them. If you want real AT you need to bring them from allies.

That's more imperium soup than Custodes army, no?

Its 1030 out of 2000 points Custodes ^^
But yes its very soup. Which, imo, is simply what a competitive Custodes army will look like. A Custodes Battalion spends to much filling troops and dropping one of the 2 battalions runs you into CP issues (you can drop the BA captain and save on CP use there but you still want scouts for area denial.

karandrasss wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
I'm surprised by the apparent popularity of Slamguinius. Are you really gonna give up all your CP to kill one thing? What detachment does he go in?

Can I model my jetbikes to have both Salvo Launchers and Hurricane Bolters then use whichever my list demands? What will the typical ITC tourney do if I did?

So if they move, 3 Shield Captains can't even kill a Rhino? Does anyone know how Geoff's list performed at Adepticon with 3x Salvo Shield Captains as the main anti-tank?

I think most tournaments would frown upon putting in 1 of each weapon since it kinda violates the #1 rule for models. There should be no confusion for your opponent what model has what weapon.
Fortunatly the models fit snug enough together that you can simply not glue in the guns and click them in from the front after you have glued the rest together. That way you can switch out weapons as needed.

Yes the BA captain is imo worth the CP cost. But this is talking from a competitive standpoint where you bring allies to up your CP count.
My own list runs an mixed Imperium Battalion with Guard (Plasma Scions + Celestine) for the CP battery (Grand Stratagist + Kurov's aquilla) a BA battalion with the captain + 3x5 scouts (and Mephiston) for area denial and a Custodes outrider with bikes.
That gives me 10 CP, 3 of which are spend pre-game (Relic for Custodes and BA captain and death visions). The remaining 7 CP are more like 10-13 because of returns from the Guard.

The Salvo launchers are not there to actually kill tanks. The list does that by charging them and poking with sharp sticks. The launchers however help to soften up targets and reduce the effectiveness of tanks by degrading them. If you want real AT you need to bring them from allies.

That's more imperium soup than Custodes army, no?

Competitive pure Custodes does not exist.

The top 8 Adepticon list had 1500pts of Custodes and no ranged anti-tank outside Salvo Launchers. What do you think of that?

karandrasss wrote:
The top 8 Adepticon list had 1500pts of Custodes and no ranged anti-tank outside Salvo Launchers. What do you think of that?

Custodes can do it in CC just fine so I don't think its a problem.
I just think that if your going for a CC route you need to go all in on it and not 'waste' 450 points on Custodes guard.

But I can't point at an Adepticon top 8 so its just talk ^^

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Competitive pure Custodes does not exist.

Can not agree more. One should decide wether he is going to play Custodes or make a strong competitive army. You can not have both in one.

And about Adepticon lists: I'm very sorry but the only Top-16 list including Custodes is AM army with 3 bike-captains as allies at 10-th place. It is definitely NOT Custodes list and it is NOT in the Top-8.

karandrasss wrote:
The top 8 Adepticon list had 1500pts of Custodes and no ranged anti-tank outside Salvo Launchers. What do you think of that?

I think Adepticons missions and Terrain are both backwards, dated concepts that caused very fringe lists to win the event.

AstraVlad wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Competitive pure Custodes does not exist.

Can not agree more. One should decide wether he is going to play Custodes or make a strong competitive army. You can not have both in one.

And about Adepticon lists: I'm very sorry but the only Top-16 list including Custodes is AM army with 3 bike-captains as allies at 10-th place. It is definitely NOT Custodes list and it is NOT in the Top-8.

Nope. The initial top 16 posts were wrong. Geoff "Incontrol"Robinson made top 8 with a Custodes army.

https://miniheadquarters.com/tournaments/details/adepticon-singles-2018-03-22-warhammer-40k-8th-edition
https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/event/y9prvqwk?round=5

 Cephalobeard wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
The top 8 Adepticon list had 1500pts of Custodes and no ranged anti-tank outside Salvo Launchers. What do you think of that?

I think Adepticons missions and Terrain are both backwards, dated concepts that caused very fringe lists to win the event.

Flyrant spam that the UK has been complaining for months is a "fringe list?"

Flyrant spam is definitely competitive.

karandrasss wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
The top 8 Adepticon list had 1500pts of Custodes and no ranged anti-tank outside Salvo Launchers. What do you think of that?

I think Adepticons missions and Terrain are both backwards, dated concepts that caused very fringe lists to win the event.

Flyrant spam that the UK has been complaining for months is a "fringe list?"

Compared to the rest of the US Meta, where our main rule set (ITC) has instituted rules that give you both extra points for killing characters, for killing units with 10+ wounds, and that gives you the ability to actually hide in ruins and not be shot?

Yes.