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Which detachment do you plan to use?

I will be playing in a tournament where every datasheet can only be taken once except for troops. No forge world is allowed. And you have to take a battalion. This is my current list

termi captain
bike captain

3x3 guard

1 vexilla magnifica

1x9 bikes 7 with bolter 2 with salvo launcher

Do you think a 9 man biker unit is good? Or is it just to big and impractical and not as good as a smaller one? I don't see any other reason for taking Allarus.

I think I will teleport the bikes. So I am not sure if I need the Vexilla.

What do you think?

You don’t need that many bikes.

 Primark G wrote:
You don’t need that many bikes.

why not? can you explain? else should i take?

 nordsturmking wrote:
I will be playing in a tournament where every datasheet can only be taken once except for troops. No forge world is allowed. And you have to take a battalion. This is my current list

termi captain
bike captain

3x3 guard

1 vexilla magnifica

1x9 bikes 7 with bolter 2 with salvo launcher

Do you think a 9 man biker unit is good? Or is it just to big and impractical and not as good as a smaller one? I don't see any other reason for taking Allarus.

I think I will teleport the bikes. So I am not sure if I need the Vexilla.

What do you think?

I'd ditch the salvos. The hurricanes do about as good even against vehicles (difference is fairly negligible in my opinion) if in rapid fire range. The amount of bikes you're taking is perfect if you want to just slam an important target or two in melee and take it out ASAP.

I'd keep the Vexilla and NOT deep strike the Bikes. Put them under the Magnifica so they get -1 to be hit and let them make good use of those Hurricane Bolters while they get in range for a charge. You'll cause a lot more damage without taking much losses. Think of them as a hybrid melee/shooting unit. Just try not to let something big and scary (like Mortarion or a full squad of Genestealers) charge them first. Don't forget you can have them do an interrupt charge to save another unit that was charged by an enemy (and they get to fight first!).

 nordsturmking wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
You don’t need that many bikes.

why not? can you explain? else should i take?

If you tell me which type of detachment you want and can use I’ll design a list for you and max out jetbikes. You’re limited to just one of every unit except for troops?

 nordsturmking wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
You don’t need that many bikes.

why not? can you explain? else should i take?

He's a contrarian. That's been the trend for every single page of this thread almost since inception.

Use your bikes. Have a blast.

Edit: I would split them into smaller squads, though.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
You don’t need that many bikes.

why not? can you explain? else should i take?

He's a contrarian. That's been the trend for every single page of this thread almost since inception.

Use your bikes. Have a blast.

Edit: I would split them into smaller squads, though.

He can't take more than one of anything but troops, so sadly has to be a big unit.

Ah, my apologies. Mobile text and all, missed that note.

Here is my new 1000 pt list:


++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [52 PL, 993pts] ++

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 164pts]: Auric Aquilis, Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia, Radiant Mantle, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 171pts]
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [20 PL, 376pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia

Vertus Praetors [15 PL, 282pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia

++ Total: [52 PL, 993pts] ++

I’ve already dedicated to playing bikes in this event, so I made it work. Running 7 bikes, and then the unit of Guard with a Storm Shield (I really like having one of these in any unit). The misericordia are just eating up the extra points, though I am going to talk with my teammate and see what he thinks about Storm shield + misericordia on bikes vs 4th Guard.

As far as Superior Creation vs Radiant Mantle, is everyone still split on that or is one clearly better than the other?

I’d go with Superior Creation - better survivability.

+ Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [54 PL, 986pts] ++

+ HQ [9 PL, 160pts] +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike
Eagle's Eye (relic) - Hurricane Bolter
Warlord (Superior Creation)

+ Troops [8 PL, 156pts] +

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian - Guardian Spears

+ Elites [7 PL, 130pts] +

Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor
Vexilla Magnifica - Misercordia

+ Fast Attack [30 PL, 540pts] +

Vertus Praetors
6x Vertus Praetor - Hurricane Bolters


++ Total: [54 PL, 986pts] ++

I'd always run the normal Vexilla after the deepstrike changes. Your not deepstriking him anyway and that way you can bring a decent weapon in the axe.
Especially in smaller points where you want all your tiny amount of models to carry their weight.

Also I assume the relic is a missclick and you wanted to get the relic bike.

On Superior Creation vs Radiant Mantle.
I would normally go for Superior Creation, I think the math also comes out in its favor by a tiny bit.
However Radiant Mantle can be great if your facing lots of plasma to 'discourage' overcharges. I would consider it if you know the meta or when you change your warlord during a game through 'Shoulder the Mantle'.

I’d rather not have to burn a cp to DS the Vexilla and the weapon isn’t a big deal since your bikes will be doing the work for your army. You can bring him in somewhere strategic where the -1 to hit will help you up the battlefield, I don’t see it doing much for you back in your DZ.

 Primark G wrote:
I’d rather not have to burn a cp to DS the Vexilla and the weapon isn’t a big deal since your bikes will be doing the work for your army. You can bring him in somewhere strategic where the -1 to hit will help you up the battlefield, I don’t see it doing much for you back in your DZ.

Why would you DS the Vexilla?

So the bikes benefit from the -1 to hit outside of their deployment zone.

 Primark G wrote:
So the bikes benefit from the -1 to hit outside of their deployment zone.

If he moves + Advances you can usually stay in range for a turn or two outside the deployment zone. Eventually you just have to let your babies spread their wings and fly.

It depends on the deployment zone. I’d rather have the Vexilla forward but maybe it could camp on an objective.

Bringing up something touched on before: Land Raider Vs Coronus transport, which is better?

Land Raider:
- Better Strength (not really important)
- Better Attacks (again, see above)
- Better Armour Save
- PotMS
- Smoke Launchers
- Better shooting vs big targets

Coronus Transport:
- 30pts cheaper
- +1 transport capacity
- Better movement
- More wounds
- 6++ save
- -1 to hit for CC units that charge it
- Able to leave combat and shoot
- Better shooting vs MEQ/GEQ (?)

Looking at it now, the FW transport isn't really better than the Land Raider. The Landraider is better against or is equal in toughness for all AP up to -4 and has much better shooting. The only reason I'd take the Grav-carrier is if you knew you were going up against a CQC heavy army (for the -1 to hit and the ability to not get trapped in CC)

I’d go grav just coz it looks way cooler.

The carrier has Fly. That's more important as the supposed better shooting of the Land Raider is easily cut off.

He mentioned that already.

 Primark G wrote:
He mentioned that already.

It's that much more important that it isn't a contest though.

 Primark G wrote:
It depends on the deployment zone. I’d rather have the Vexilla forward but maybe it could camp on an objective.

This is usually what mine ends up doing. By turn 3 he's an ObSec guardian.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
He mentioned that already.

It's that much more important that it isn't a contest though.

Mmmm... That would very much depend on whether your opponent has any CC units (or has CC units that they aren't using to tie up the bikes), you could well face an IG/SM tank army where those extra lascannons would come in handy.

Another question, this time on relics:
What's the best secondary relic to take? Grab another 3++ for a second Shield Captain or grab the relic that lets you fight again on a 4+ and stick him in the center of 3xbike squads?

 Primark G wrote:
I’d rather not have to burn a cp to DS the Vexilla and the weapon isn’t a big deal since your bikes will be doing the work for your army. You can bring him in somewhere strategic where the -1 to hit will help you up the battlefield, I don’t see it doing much for you back in your DZ.

You don't DS. thats the whole point.
You can't DS the Vexilla outside your deployment zone until turn 2. That is the turn your bikes are charging and no longer need the -1 to hit.
You want the -1 to hit for the first 1or2 shooting phases which means you need to start on the table and run + advance up . By conga lining the bikes back a bit you will be in range with your bikes after moving even if you roll bad on advancing.

Go for another 3++. A single melee attack from a bike isn’t that good, and while another 12 hurricane shots can be nice it’s not as nice as having TWO bike captains with a 3++. That extra invul save allows them to survive against dedicated melee units, and makes them more durable point for point than just taking normal bikes.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
He mentioned that already.

It's that much more important that it isn't a contest though.

Mmmm... That would very much depend on whether your opponent has any CC units (or has CC units that they aren't using to tie up the bikes), you could well face an IG/SM tank army where those extra lascannons would come in handy.

Another question, this time on relics:
What's the best secondary relic to take? Grab another 3++ for a second Shield Captain or grab the relic that lets you fight again on a 4+ and stick him in the center of 3xbike squads?

The bikers and Custodians are gonna engage with those most likely though. Having Fly allows you to get in close if you wanna drop off cargo and then not be stuck in a rut. Otherwise, and I really don't want to say it, Lascannons can be allied in for cheap if that's what you really want. If you make the Land Raider do everything, it's going to suck at everything.

I always go for double 3++. 4++ is really dicey.

Ordana I’d rather have the option to deep strike the banner - I think overall it’s more tactical and having more options is always a good thing.

His point is you don't have an option.

You can't put it anywhere useful until turn 2-3, and then it's useless because most armies are now in range to melee, where Custodes should be.

It's only an option on the most pedantic way possible, in that yes you certainly have the OPTION of putting it somewhere, much like you have the option of never moving, but that doesn't ewuate with good decisions.

If only the vexilla praetor was a vertus praetor with a vexilla