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Lance845 wrote: Finn escaped the brain washing first order. He makes 2 friends poe and rey. He doesnt want to fight. He wants to run. Before he goes down the only 1 of his 2 friends is there and in danger. When he wakes up he wants to know what happened to the one person he was with that he gives any gak about.
Then, because of the rose plot, finn learns why its important to fight instead of run. And he takes that to a suicidal extreme, which he is saved from.
Its his character ark. Finding real relationships and ideals and learning whats worth fighting for and that throwing your life away wont help.
See, that is how I envisioned Finn's story arc being pitched, but the execution was awful. It just makes him appear nonsensical. He's either a sniveling coward or a stoic self-sacrificing hero. But because those are incompatible character traits it is just so jarring.
Really that I think is the biggest failing of these two movies. They totally failed to make Finn a usable character. Somehow he is a font of knowledge about the intimate technical details of First Order protocols, yet at the same time he's a flunky stormtrooper who's resume is limited to janitorial duties.
To make Finn a believable source of inside information he needed to be a hard bitten Stormtrooper veteran who has a change of heart when asked to slaughter defenseless civilians. That would explain how he had so much knowledge that would realistically be restricted information, and explain his bravery. Leave the cowering, whining, and whimpering to C-3P0. You could even justify him trying to escape with this new version. He simply doesn't really buy into the Resistance ideology. He doesn't really give a frak about anybody except Rey and Poe, so when he thinks the situation is hopeless he's willing to run off, but not because he's a spineless coward, because he just doesn't really care that much and doesn't fancy dying for no purpose.
Which is fine, but you should try and keep in mind that these movies are for kids too. And Finns "bumbling" and being a janitor instead of a hardened vet fits better as a character that belongs there for kids instead of a serious sci fi adult film. SW isn't serious. It never has been. And it should never be taken so.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ingtaer wrote: Don't want to interrupt and try and post about the new film (you know the actual topic), but has it been mentioned at all that the first reviews have been given and it is widely positive?
Guys, the thread is about Han Solo film so please stick to that.
All the reviews, and viewers' comments, I have seen have been pretty positive about the film. No-one thinks it's Best Film Evar, but it's worth seeing.
Nobodys views are to be respected. Especially people who try to tell you their views for a living.
People who are paid to watch films they might dislike and if not bribed willl allow their own biasd to show - yeah I need to respect them. I will continue to make my own descisons based on my own experience of a given film
SW isn't serious. It never has been. And it should never be taken so.
Agreed - perhaps you should tell the Sainted critics that as they pretend that it was a super interlectual film in order to hide their own corruption.
On the current film, the trailers are good enough to catch it on Sky but thats all.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
If it's as good as Rogue One as feeling like a Star Wars movie compared to the first two of the new trilogy, I'll be very happy.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
Lance845 wrote: Roses sister only HAD to die because Poe was a feth up. Holdo because sw tech, for all its advancment, is analog and no auto pilot exists. She actually was providing cover for everyone else to escape. It only failed because poe fethed up again with finn and rose and let the enemy know what was up.
Finn, again, wasnt saving anyone. If this movie had a general theme about sacrifice in it, its that you shouldnt. Because other people are gunna pay for your (poes) idiocy. Twice other people paid for poes dumb ass decisions.
If there is a problem with this movie its that they didnt string up poe and execute him as a hazard to everyone elses life.
Okay, if it was THAT bad of an idea to attack the Dreadnaught... why didn't Leia or Ackbar just recall the strike?
Oops! Looks like they share the blame with Poe.
Or the bomber crews could have told Poe to stuff it; it was too risky. But they saw the value of the mission and decided it was a good risk. So if it was a futile act, they ALSO share some of the blame.
And if the situation was truly that dire and the fleet was endangered by Poe's antics delaying their departure (they weren't; he was out there buying time for the last evacuees to get to the cruiser), they could simply have left without him and the bombers. After all, we know X-Wings have hyperdrives, and I can't imagine those big, lumbering bombers didn't (they fit a hyperdrive in a tiny little A-Wing, for the gods' sake). "Meet us at the rendezvous point," and BOOM!, away they go.
That's the kind of problem that comes up when a director gets so enamored with telling HIS version, he forgets to reference everything that has gone before.
At any rate, now it looks like Poe's not the maniac you thought he was. Because the high commander of the Resistance (Leia), the commander of the fleet (Ackbar), and literally everyone in the bomber squadron has a share in the blame.
Finn's sacrifice would have worked fine, by the way. I swallowed my distaste and rewatched the movie. Rose crashes into Finn's speedster about ten seconds away from impact. It's another minute or more before the beam fires. Finn has time to regain his bearings after the crash, get out of his ski speeder, go over to Roes's ski speeder, and HOLD A SHORT CONVERSATION before she kisses him... and the beam finally fires.
He'd have gone out like a hero, instead of continuing to be the token comic relief black guy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lance845 wrote: Which is fine, but you should try and keep in mind that these movies are for kids too.
Sorry, didn't we see Anakin walk into a room full of kids with the clear implication he's going to kill them ALL?
Don't we later see Anakin laying on the ground being turned into a roast long-pig with three limbs removed?
Twice in the first two movies someone's ARM is seen lying on the ground amid bloodspatter.
No, this is not really a series of kiddie movies.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/13 21:34:50
Pm me if you want to keep talking about this, or ressurect the TLJ thread. Im happy to talk about it. But the mods asked us to return to the topic of solo here.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Lance845 wrote: The fact that their COULD have been a sabatuer in the fleet is exactly why they didn't tell Poe gak. In responce Poe put them all in even more danger. POE was the idiot making mistakes. Holdo was doing her damn job with idiots making a bigger mess around her.
Holdo is a utter failure as an admiral. Let's remember there was never any hints of saboteurs, and I guess it was Poe's mutiny that makes Holdo think he's ready to lead the rebellion? Holdo logic "I don't trust you with the escape plan, but please lead after I'm dead"
back to han though, where did this name "soylo" come from? I missed it's origins it seems as my news feed is all about dead pool and the avengers and nothing about the solo movie. which is odd because I should have been seeing multiple countdown clocks to the opening by now, and I have to go look for the commercials and information on it, I don't see it on tv, or have it recommended on fb, or youtube.
Lance845 wrote: The fact that their COULD have been a sabatuer in the fleet is exactly why they didn't tell Poe gak. In responce Poe put them all in even more danger. POE was the idiot making mistakes. Holdo was doing her damn job with idiots making a bigger mess around her.
Holdo is a utter failure as an admiral. Let's remember there was never any hints of saboteurs, and I guess it was Poe's mutiny that makes Holdo think he's ready to lead the rebellion? Holdo logic "I don't trust you with the escape plan, but please lead after I'm dead"
back to han though, where did this name "soylo" come from? I missed it's origins it seems as my news feed is all about dead pool and the avengers and nothing about the solo movie. which is odd because I should have been seeing multiple countdown clocks to the opening by now, and I have to go look for the commercials and information on it, I don't see it on tv, or have it recommended on fb, or youtube.
Yeah her plan to evacuate everyone except 3 people driving the big ships (again SW tech is dumb, why do they not have cruise control?) while making the first Order believe that they had killed the entire resistance while in actuality saving everyone was a total failure on her part. It wasn't at all the actions of Poe and Co that got entire shuttles full of people killed.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Lance845 wrote: The fact that their COULD have been a sabatuer in the fleet is exactly why they didn't tell Poe gak. In responce Poe put them all in even more danger. POE was the idiot making mistakes. Holdo was doing her damn job with idiots making a bigger mess around her.
Holdo is a utter failure as an admiral. Let's remember there was never any hints of saboteurs, and I guess it was Poe's mutiny that makes Holdo think he's ready to lead the rebellion? Holdo logic "I don't trust you with the escape plan, but please lead after I'm dead"
back to han though, where did this name "soylo" come from? I missed it's origins it seems as my news feed is all about dead pool and the avengers and nothing about the solo movie. which is odd because I should have been seeing multiple countdown clocks to the opening by now, and I have to go look for the commercials and information on it, I don't see it on tv, or have it recommended on fb, or youtube.
Yeah her plan to evacuate everyone except 3 people driving the big ships (again SW tech is dumb, why do they not have cruise control?) while making the first Order believe that they had killed the entire resistance while in actuality saving everyone was a total failure on her part. It wasn't at all the actions of Poe and Co that got entire shuttles full of people killed.
and that whole situation is of her making, she was in charge, she failed on so many levels. but again I have to ask, why a guy who's not trusted to know the plan seems to be her next choice to be leader of the rebellion.
she orders an evacuation and tells no one, not even the pilots (poe & fellow mutineers) where they are going, it's like she only imagined giving an order. If you give a order that no one is around to hear, was the order even given? Even in todays navy once the order to evacuate is given, everyone on board assembles at their rafts, and everyone is told the direction and distance to the destination, the local enviornmental conditions and direction to nearest friendly forces. Not to mention all of the techs, ie rose, would have been running around destroying all the crypto gear and sensitive information. She did none of that, so yes she's a total failure, If there was a saboteur onboard, it was her. Not briefing your senior officers on what their expected to do, so they can have their people doing what needs to be done is setting everyone up for failure, needlessly risking lives, and sabotaging the mission. Also it makes for horrible story telling and meaningless side quests.
Seeing a few reviews come out now, and they seem to fall broadly into two camps:
Camp One thinks it's a fun, entertaining Star Wars movie that's remarkably coherent given the production issues, and will likely please fans and normal cinemagoers alike. Ehrenreich is apparently actually a pretty good Han Solo.
Camp Two grudgingly admits it's a fun, entertaining Star Wars movie that's remarkably coherent given the production issues, and will likely please fans and normal cinemagoers alike, BUT wwah wwwaaaah it's not TLJ and it's so pedestrian and it's not subversive enough wwwaaaaah.
So I expect I'll thoroughly enjoy it.
Seriously though, Den of Geek need to take a proper long hard look at themselves - the sodding Guardian gave this 4/5, and if you're out-snobbing the Guardian you're basically James William Bottomtooth III.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
I figure I set my expectations really low, and then I'll enjoy it. I went into Last Jedi expecting the worst film in the series and thus found it somewhat entertaining. Not great, or even top tier, but not horrible.
Solo has potential, but I won't expect much. Thus anything will seem a decent popcorn film.
Right now, despite earlier misgivings, I've got that Ant-Man and Rogue One ray of hope.
See, all three films there had troubled productions - some more than most, at least according to reports.
Ant-Man and Rogue One turned out to be cracking films. Indeed, hand on heart I think Rogue One is the best Star Wars film I've seen.
Solo? Well, probably the better covered 'troubled birth'. And according to DoG, up to 70% of the film was re-shot by Ron Howard.
But I'm yet to see an outright negative early comment. So with any luck, this'll also be a pleasant surprise.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just clocked the reviews on RT.
All saying remarkably similar things - essentially that it's not a perfect film, has a slow start, but finishes strongly - and most importantly, it's fun.
That's me sold.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 08:08:52
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Echoing what Doc said. Cautiously optimistic because the early comments are similar to early comments for Rogue One, and I too found that to be my favourite Star Wars film.
Lance845 wrote: Or any reviews of any film for that matter. Your tastes are yours. Enjoy what you like.
Well said sir, well said.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Lance845 wrote: Or any reviews of any film for that matter. Your tastes are yours. Enjoy what you like.
Well said sir, well said.
Whilst I do agree with that, I have to say that when the film isn't even released yet it is a bit hard to judge how much one would like it or whether it is any good. For example with the first of the sequels I though the adverts were excellent and thought the film would be good based on that (as well as the fact that I am a massive SW nerd) however having watched the film I hated it, I would rather they stuck with the old EU and considering how crap that largely was it is really saying something. I would have preferred to save myself the money and just played x-wing instead of wasting that time on the film.
But of course it always a problem with critics that they are often paid shills or have their own axes to grind, the Shawshank Redemption's critical reception springs to mind here, as it had shocking reviews and has since gone down as one of the greatest cult classics of all time. So with the Solo film and its reviews if everyone who has reviewed it is paid by the mouse, or reviewing it positively to keep their jobs I would probably give the film a miss, if some of the reviewers were die hard fans who loved it I might be more tempted to watch it.
As it stands, personally I think I will give it a miss, everything I have seen and heard leads me to suspect it will be very pretty, have the odd nod and homage to the past and probably be as devoid of flavour as a pot noodle.
ingtaer wrote: the Shawshank Redemption's critical reception springs to mind here, as it had shocking reviews and has since gone down as one of the greatest cult classics of all time.
The Shawshank Redemption had overall good reviews on its release. It was also nominated for seven academy awards.
It was a disappointment at the box office, not in critical reception.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 11:54:09
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
ingtaer wrote: the Shawshank Redemption's critical reception springs to mind here, as it had shocking reviews and has since gone down as one of the greatest cult classics of all time.
The Shawshank Redemption had overall good reviews on its release. It was also nominated for seven academy awards.
It was a disappointment at the box office, not in critical reception.
Ah, fair enough. I obviously misremembered (its been 20 years after all). I must of got confused with box office and critics. Makes me question this whole thing even more.
ingtaer wrote: the Shawshank Redemption's critical reception springs to mind here, as it had shocking reviews and has since gone down as one of the greatest cult classics of all time.
The Shawshank Redemption had overall good reviews on its release. It was also nominated for seven academy awards.
It was a disappointment at the box office, not in critical reception.
Ah, fair enough. I obviously misremembered (its been 20 years after all). I must of got confused with box office and critics. Makes me question this whole thing even more.
There was apparently a bad review in the Los Angeles Times, which some people blamed for the resulting box office, but most of the other reviews were positive.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Had a look as well and apparently the Washington Post gave a bad review as well. I guess these things depend upon where the money lies...
Been thinking of the film in regards to the EU and reckon that would be pretty damn good, growing up on Corellia Han and Dengar have a rivalry, leading to a swoop bike race in which Han wins and Dengar gets messed up. Han goes onto join the Imperial Academy and then leaves in spectacular fashion when he sees the Wookies being subjected, freeing Chewie he goes rogue, wins the Falcon off Lando in a game of Sabacc and leads a life on the edge. Taking jobs where he can he leads him to Kessel and smuggling for the Hutts. etc.
Could be pretty damn good. firefly meets SW.
I fear the film will be hamfisted moralising, pretty pictures, spinning is a good trick etc... Really hope to be proved wrong as I loved Rogue One.
