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 master of ordinance wrote:
-A .38 revolver is somehow able to kill a 200+ ton super heavy tank

-

It does need a lot of shots though...
(in fact in a normal battle there would not be enough time for a single guy with a gun to destroy a superheavy, so arguably it cannot)

 master of ordinance wrote:
-A 70 ton breakthrough tank smashes into a rebel Guard unit and halts. Despite the enemy swarming the hull the crew do not use the defensive weapons that are in place for specifically this reason, and the main gun does not fire on anything else that might be a big threat. Instead the tank halts in place and grinds its tracks ineffectually turning to the left and right, attempting to club the infantry with its sides.

Unless, of course, that tank upscales a couple of times, then it suddenly can do all the things you want. Plus, the track-grinding gets better too.

The GK relic book (Domina Liber Daemonica) gives enemy daemon units a -1 to Ld. Note that it does not affect friendly daemon units. So all of you open players who like to mix Daemons and GK can do so without having to worry about your relic book hurting you.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The GK relic book (Domina Liber Daemonica) gives enemy daemon units a -1 to Ld. Note that it does not affect friendly daemon units. So all of you open players who like to mix Daemons and GK can do so without having to worry about your relic book hurting you.

Open & narrative play, as well as allies in team games.

I also suspect we'll see more units get the Daemon keyword at some point - I could see it for Celestine and Legion of the Damned, for example.

C4790M wrote:Using an example from a game I played recently:

Commissar Yarrick stands triumphantly on the objective, Old One Eye barrels in, determined to squish the small lump of biomasss... And stops physically nose to nose with Yarrick, unable to attack him because Yarrick is standing on a 2.5in tall walkway.

A few turns later, a group of Neophytes climb up the same walkway to give Yarrick a stern talking to, but somehow get run over by the Leman Russ sitting next to the walkway

(seriously, the double standard of monstrous creatures being unable to attack when vehicles can is very upsetting)

A Morka/Gorkanaught would have the same problem too. This could probably be solved by just putting everything on bases.

Arachnofiend wrote:Anrakyr is incapable of riding any transports because he lacks a <dynasty> keyword. For a guy who's title is "The Traveler" he's pretty bad at traveling, isn't he?

Clearly all those Necrotyr runes say "no hitchhikers".



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Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The GK relic book (Domina Liber Daemonica) gives enemy daemon units a -1 to Ld. Note that it does not affect friendly daemon units. So all of you open players who like to mix Daemons and GK can do so without having to worry about your relic book hurting you.

Well my Inquistitorial Daemonhosts would be happy (if they unit wasn't so pants as to not be used).

The Culexys Assassin, despite being a soulless abomination that makes every psyker shudder just by being on the same continent as him, can't effect friendly psykers.

A hand held flamer can fire far enough to hit a supersonic jet in the sky but can't reach a few guy more than a few feat away.

Its weird that only apothecaries can return destroyed, or slain models to a unit which has suffered casualties. One would think that a chapter master or captain could do that, by calling the high command asking for reinforcements. But no, only an apothecary can do that, and high command only listens half the time. They must be pretty busy.

Or does one space marine, or scout, become insanely strong when he is the only one left of his unit and drags all his destroyed, or slain comrades across the entire battlefield (without impeding any of his abilities to shoot, run, or fight) to a friendly apothecary who then can restore one of his comrades ? It doesnt matter how many apothecaries there are, only one model can be restored, and it only works half the time. It never gets easier, no matter how many apothecaries there are.

 p5freak wrote:
Its weird that only apothecaries can return destroyed, or slain models to a unit which has suffered casualties. One would think that a chapter master or captain could do that, by calling the high command asking for reinforcements. But no, only an apothecary can do that, and high command only listens half the time. They must be pretty busy.

Or does one space marine, or scout, become insanely strong when he is the only one left of his unit and drags all his destroyed, or slain comrades across the entire battlefield (without impeding any of his abilities to shoot, run, or fight) to a friendly apothecary who then can restore one of his comrades ? It doesnt matter how many apothecaries there are, only one model can be restored, and it only works half the time. It never gets easier, no matter how many apothecaries there are.

In the grim future no one knows first aid....

To be fair, the Apothecary is a very specialized role and is among the few in the chapter who understand Space Marine biology enough to treat wounds properly. That said, the same excuse can't be made for the Imperial Guard who all should have some kind of combat lifesaver training to save their friends. Or it's possible that they just kick the bodies into a ditch or something....

 master of ordinance wrote:
-A .38 revolver is somehow able to kill a 200+ ton super heavy tank

-

After shooting it a million times, sure. I'm pretty sure the tank will kill the idiot who's shooting it with a low caliber handgun before that happens.

Two imperial guardsmen get two extra attacks for being inspired by a priest or Colonel Straken.

Give them a heavy weapon however, and they're only half as inspired.

Two imperial guardsmen get shot with a boltgun. One dies. The other gets to fire back.

Give them a heavy weapon, and the surviour will pick up the heavy weapon and his friends lasgun and fire back at no penalty.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
-A .38 revolver is somehow able to kill a 200+ ton super heavy tank

-

After shooting it a million times, sure. I'm pretty sure the tank will kill the idiot who's shooting it with a low caliber handgun before that happens.

Yeah, to be fair, as a superheavy tank player, I don't even mind this. I choose to view it less as "the pistol fired, and the round sprang off the armour, and the tank fell apart" and more as "the tank is super beat up - presumably torn up by pre-existing anti-tank weapons and possibly even close combat power. The crew are on their last threads of stress, with each ping against the hull representing potential death. Each man is a trembling wreck, at least among those who survive at all, and the vehicle's warning klaxons blare all kinds of emergencies in their ears. There is an uncontrolled fire on the lower deck, the damage control teams are trapped in a compartment rapidly filling with smoke, and the ammunition racks for one of the heavy bolter sponsons is jammed shut."

The pistol may not even fire fluffwise; rather, it's a rules mechanic that simply reflects the crew losing their nerve. But admittedly, yes, if you follow the rule logic to the letter and don't FORGE THE NARRATIVE hard enough you get nonsense (which is true for most things really).

When a space marine is a recruit (a scout) he knows how to fight with a combat knife, it gives him +1 attack in melee. Once he becomes a tactical space marine he forgets how to use it properly, no more +1 attack.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

In the grim future no one knows first aid....

To be fair, the Apothecary is a very specialized role and is among the few in the chapter who understand Space Marine biology enough to treat wounds properly. That said, the same excuse can't be made for the Imperial Guard who all should have some kind of combat lifesaver training to save their friends. Or it's possible that they just kick the bodies into a ditch or something....

I believe it is cannon that guardsmen are so expendable, wasting the time teaching them how to treat the 1 in 2,000,000 wounds in the grim dark future that is possibly survivable is not worth it

 pumaman1 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

In the grim future no one knows first aid....

To be fair, the Apothecary is a very specialized role and is among the few in the chapter who understand Space Marine biology enough to treat wounds properly. That said, the same excuse can't be made for the Imperial Guard who all should have some kind of combat lifesaver training to save their friends. Or it's possible that they just kick the bodies into a ditch or something....

I believe it is cannon that guardsmen are so expendable, wasting the time teaching them how to treat the 1 in 2,000,000 wounds in the grim dark future that is possibly survivable is not worth it

While true for Krieg, I'm almost positive that Cadians would be trying to save every body they've got since they got Tanith'd.

 pumaman1 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

In the grim future no one knows first aid....

To be fair, the Apothecary is a very specialized role and is among the few in the chapter who understand Space Marine biology enough to treat wounds properly. That said, the same excuse can't be made for the Imperial Guard who all should have some kind of combat lifesaver training to save their friends. Or it's possible that they just kick the bodies into a ditch or something....

I believe it is cannon that guardsmen are so expendable, wasting the time teaching them how to treat the 1 in 2,000,000 wounds in the grim dark future that is possibly survivable is not worth it

The Uplifting Primer definitely had (very) basic first aid.

You know that casualties are not necessarily dead, just incapacitated, right? (except for people whose plasma guns overheated. They are Slain.) Some of them are probably being given emergency first aid in an unconsidered corner by those guys who failed their morale check and ran off. We do not need to take every dice roll as a precisely defined event.

Speaking about rules comedy and armies having rules that don't align with their fluff, my personal favorite one is still this:

Iyanden is a dying Craftworld that has to rely increasingly on Wraith units. To show their overall tenacity, an Iyanden unit cannot lose more than one model to Battleshock, as if every unit was its own pre-nerf Commissar. The problem? Wraithguard have high leadership and a low model count, while other Wraith units are "single-model" and thus immune to Battleshock, therefore gaining nothing from the Iyanden bonus. If you really want to get the most mileage from the Iyanden bonus, you want to play them as a "horde" of Guardians drowning the enemy in their bodies and a wave of shuriken fire.

Ravemastaj wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I forgot the best one.

A bolter fires and a Necron succumbs. His corpse rises up as a poxwalker much to the horror of his comrades. Then, to everyone's surprise his corpse rises again as a fully functionality necron. The necron and the poxwalker stare at each other, both wondering which of them is the clone.

That is the funniest one yet!

-Primaris Intercessors are the least cost effective troop choice to field for the Space Marines, despite being 'better' than your average Tactical Marine.
- Primaris Reivers are cheaper to field than Intercessors, and if equipped with grapnel launchers they are objectively better at the same price.
-Sternguard are cheaper than both, and equipped with better weapons still.
-Marine scouts are half the price, but when armed with a Missile launcher, they are capable of doing just as much damage as Intercessors when using Frag missiles.

Primaris are objectively better than any Troop choice point for point except for Guardsmen (and even better than them if you don't give them an order to fire twice)

Reivers = 90 pts, Intercessors = 90 pts (what you said was true on 8th release, no longer so)

Sternguard are a contender for the worst marine unit for the points they cost, being 1 W less for the same price as Primaris, sure they get an additional armor penetration, but that's no way a fair exchange, especially since they take up an Elite slot

 Mmmpi wrote:

--las pistols, grot blasters, and human fists can kill tanks

Not really a disconnect - think of it as getting the shoots in the small cracks or the nice vulnerable mechanical bits. Or picking off the spotter if he sticks his head out the hatch. Or just jamming the barrels. People in WW2 were killing tanks with petrol loaded socks. Not hard to think the same principles can apply.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Speaking about rules comedy and armies having rules that don't align with their fluff, my personal favorite one is still this:

Iyanden is a dying Craftworld that has to rely increasingly on Wraith units. To show their overall tenacity, an Iyanden unit cannot lose more than one model to Battleshock, as if every unit was its own pre-nerf Commissar. The problem? Wraithguard have high leadership and a low model count, while other Wraith units are "single-model" and thus immune to Battleshock, therefore gaining nothing from the Iyanden bonus. If you really want to get the most mileage from the Iyanden bonus, you want to play them as a "horde" of Guardians drowning the enemy in their bodies and a wave of shuriken fire.

Well that or only play against Night Lord/Slaanesh armies that specialize in reducing your leadership stat.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Speaking about rules comedy and armies having rules that don't align with their fluff, my personal favorite one is still this:

Iyanden is a dying Craftworld that has to rely increasingly on Wraith units. To show their overall tenacity, an Iyanden unit cannot lose more than one model to Battleshock, as if every unit was its own pre-nerf Commissar. The problem? Wraithguard have high leadership and a low model count, while other Wraith units are "single-model" and thus immune to Battleshock, therefore gaining nothing from the Iyanden bonus. If you really want to get the most mileage from the Iyanden bonus, you want to play them as a "horde" of Guardians drowning the enemy in their bodies and a wave of shuriken fire.

Well that or only play against Night Lord/Slaanesh armies that specialize in reducing your leadership stat.

Speaking of Night Lords, their Leadership mod can be used to debuff the Leadership of enemy Characters, which makes them easier to use Treason of Tzeentch on if you ally in some Daemons. Spooky spooky mind control...

-Shouting at a Lasgun can cause it to suddenly doubly its cyclic rate of fire

-But only those lasguns in that one unit, not the ones in the unit over

- All Custodes have a Misericordia, unless they decide they don't want to pay for the upgrade, then suddenly they don't.

- A Custodian using a two handed spear or axe suddenly finds a third hand to wave about his Misericordia.

- A Vexilus Praetor can hold his vexilla whilst also using a two handed spear or shield AND still swing his Miericordia, but can't use one less hand to hold a shield and use the knife (but he can still pay points for the weapon which he is unable to use...)

-> an intercontinental ballistic missile the size of a tower does not clear the table when fired

 Lord Damocles wrote:
- All Custodes have a Misericordia, unless they decide they don't want to pay for the upgrade, then suddenly they don't.

- A Custodian using a two handed spear or axe suddenly finds a third hand to wave about his Misericordia.

- A Vexilus Praetor can hold his vexilla whilst also using a two handed spear or shield AND still swing his Miericordia, but can't use one less hand to hold a shield and use the knife (but he can still pay points for the weapon which he is unable to use...)

Clearly they hold it in their teeth.

 master of ordinance wrote:
-Shouting at a Lasgun can cause it to suddenly doubly its cyclic rate of fire

-But only those lasguns in that one unit, not the ones in the unit over

Apparently Lasguns are voice-locked into single-fire mode until an officer voice authorizes the gun to unlock automatic fire mode. Keeps the grunts from accidentally shooting the Commissar, I guess.

Or its to simulate the guardsmen being ordered to use rank fire. A real life tactic.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Or its to simulate the guardsmen being ordered to use rank fire. A real life tactic.

It's funnier (and not actually out of line with the fluff) to have the officer yelling at the lasguns though.



The best use of a rhino is to ram it into backfield support units, making them retreat, and not shoot.
Must be learning from them orcs.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Or its to simulate the guardsmen being ordered to use rank fire. A real life tactic.

It's funnier (and not actually out of line with the fluff) to have the officer yelling at the lasguns though.



The best use of a rhino is to ram it into backfield support units, making them retreat, and not shoot.
Must be learning from them orcs.

Considering how weak the gun is, running over people with it is probably deadlier anyway

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Or its to simulate the guardsmen being ordered to use rank fire. A real life tactic.

Funnily enough, Warmachine has Ranked Attacks as a rule for certain units, letting them trace LOS through themselves (the game doesn't use TLOS) in order to allow them to hit the enemy.

You can clip an enemy vehicle by the flagpost if it's mounted on a base. If the vehicle is not on a base, you ignore anything except the hull, so a tank cannot fire from its turret.