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 lolman1c wrote:
Are people supporting that Less options = better balance?

I think the prevailing opinion is less options are easier to balance, not that it necessarily presents better balance. I don't think it's hard to imagine how it would be preferable to release a fairly balanced experience, and then adding on fan favorites would be simply a matter of play-testing.

 Rik Lightstar wrote:
This thread is great, so many people assuming that GW is telling us everything about every faction in each focus article.....

It seems more likely there will be 1 or 2 additional options for each faction that they've not mentioned. That way for all the over-eager people who build a Kill-Team based on the articles there's going to be a reason to buy another box too.

Rik

dude, these are what you're getting. Look at what box sets they have already shown... there is very unlikely to be stuff they haven't told us about especially as it cimes out soon and they're getting people ready by getting you to already have your teams ready.

It's going to be funny if gw messes up the balance because they only have like 4 unjts max in each faction to do. XD

Chopstick wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/12/12th-july-kill-team-focus-drukharigw-homepage-post-1/

Only 2 Unit choice.

Twice as many units as SWA. Hope you love some Dark Lances guys...

Anyways, those two kits have more options than the four or five on other factions. I think people need to realize how much choice some of these kits have and need to be "balanced". I think it's best they start with troops and figure out basic, special and heavy weapons before moving on to flying things or light vehicles etc. I'm guessing they are way ahead in testing since Rogue Trader comes out before Xmas and some of the stuff in the initial video isn't listed here.

 ProtoClone wrote:
Hm, despite some let downs I think DE could be a fun force to play right off. I like what I have seen with their tactics and more importantly gives me an idea of what we might see for Harlequins.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy that we get kabalites as wyches were super one-dimensional in shadow war armageddon (did your fast melee rush make it? no? you lose.) They were essential.

I just know that every single DE player in my area without fail was forced to buy at least one wrack kit to keep playing their coven units in the new codex, because so many people think talos are cool and had 1-2 in their army but usually didn't care for wracks. And wrack kits are for no reason nearly twice as expensive as the other troop kits AND contain half the number of models. Gotta pay that "new box tax".

It makes sense that there are limited units for the first go at Killteam, especially with all the rules listed in the rulebook. GW has already stated Killteam will be supported in the future, so new units will come out any time with rules included in the box.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
It makes sense that there are limited units for the first go at Killteam, especially with all the rules listed in the rulebook. GW has already stated Killteam will be supported in the future, so new units will come out any time with rules included in the box.

Not having Mandrakes seems bizare but oh well.

Its sad that the supposed emphasis on plastic units (*) means no Mandrake, likely no Stirking Scorpions, no Assassins, etc etc.

*(*) but apparently Rangers...

I am a little confused. Will they have each faction in the books? Example being if I could build different killteams for different armies, but not need to buy each codex for a killteam.

 conker249 wrote:
I am a little confused. Will they have each faction in the books? Example being if I could build different killteams for different armies, but not need to buy each codex for a killteam.

The core rulebook will have factions and stratagem cards for all 16 factions. The Kill Zone boxes are a way to bundle a kill team faction with terrain and get some additional stratagem cards for that faction not found in the core book. That is what I currently know/understand, though I hope someone would chime in if I am wrong..

Neronoxx wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Are people supporting that Less options = better balance?

I think the prevailing opinion is less options are easier to balance, not that it necessarily presents better balance. I don't think it's hard to imagine how it would be preferable to release a fairly balanced experience, and then adding on fan favorites would be simply a matter of play-testing.

Ahh yes, and we'll have to pay for it as well... if it turns out to be a free update in the future though I'll say sorry and might actually buy the game.

Hmm. Expected more from the DE section to be honest.

I'm not that bothered about the Wracks not being there, but I did expect Mandrakes and Scourges/Hellions.
I also expected a bit more from Guardsmen too (I'm not an abhuman player, so I'm not fussed about no Ogryns/Ratlings), but I did hope for Veterans - but then, I guess that it's up to the players to level their guardsmen to Veteran status.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Deathwatch one is literally just the Kill Team and Intercessors/Reivers.
Tau I'm expecting to be Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, Stealth Suits and maybe Kroot.
Grey Knights, I wish they could have Terminators, but I doubt that will happen.
CSM I'm expecting as regular CSM, Cultists, Chosen/Possessed.

I think that with how they've limited a lot of the factions, the balance in the game should be much tighter. However, there is always the risk that it won't be, and even if it is tight, people are still losing out on some options.

I'm still completely stoked for Kill Team - can't wait for pre-orders!

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Hmm. Expected more from the DE section to be honest.

I'm not that bothered about the Wracks not being there, but I did expect Mandrakes and Scourges/Hellions.
I also expected a bit more from Guardsmen too (I'm not an abhuman player, so I'm not fussed about no Ogryns/Ratlings), but I did hope for Veterans - but then, I guess that it's up to the players to level their guardsmen to Veteran status.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Deathwatch one is literally just the Kill Team and Intercessors/Reivers.
Tau I'm expecting to be Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, Stealth Suits and maybe Kroot.
Grey Knights, I wish they could have Terminators, but I doubt that will happen.
CSM I'm expecting as regular CSM, Cultists, Chosen/Possessed.

I think that with how they've limited a lot of the factions, the balance in the game should be much tighter. However, there is always the risk that it won't be, and even if it is tight, people are still losing out on some options.

I'm still completely stoked for Kill Team - can't wait for pre-orders!

I don't expect any flying or jumping troops at the initial release at this point.

rhavien wrote:

I don't expect any flying or jumping troops at the initial release at this point.

Same here. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see expansions in the future that focus on high speed units like jump infantry and bikes, and heavy or super elite units like Custodes and Terminators. Not to mention if GW do keep there word about future support for the game, any new plastic infantry kits would have a good chance of being included to expand there factions roster.

I'm guessing Tau get Pathfinders, Fire Warriors, Breachers and Drones (including the wacky pathfinder drones, drone turrets etc)

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/12/12th-july-kill-team-focus-drukharigw-homepage-post-1/

Only 2 Unit choice.

Twice as many units as SWA. Hope you love some Dark Lances guys...

Anyways, those two kits have more options than the four or five on other factions. I think people need to realize how much choice some of these kits have and need to be "balanced". I think it's best they start with troops and figure out basic, special and heavy weapons before moving on to flying things or light vehicles etc. I'm guessing they are way ahead in testing since Rogue Trader comes out before Xmas and some of the stuff in the initial video isn't listed here.

Except it's more likely to lead to poor balance when things are worked on in a vacuum- that's one of the reasons why GW games are so unbalanced to begin with. They don't take the time to work on all the various elements of the game and how they interact with each other. Instead they tack on special rules and tweak stats then plug the new thing into the existing framework, only to be surprised when problems arise.

It's looking quite likely that each faction will get basic infantry units, and cool stuff like jump units and/or terminators will come out a few weeks later in the first KT DLC ala Gang War. Oh well, KT is mostly a vehicle to sell terrain anyway, from what I can tell.

With what we've seen, I no longer expect the stealth suits for Tau. Would be cool, but seems unlikely.

Fire Warriors and Pathfinders seem very likely. Drones are up there, too. Kroot I'd give 50/50 odds too, though - they have awesome kitbashable plastic sprues, but no options. And cant use much of the sprue on other units.

fresus wrote:
Mandrakes are finecast with no options, so were not a very likely choice.
Wracks are plastic with multiple weapon options and great conversion potential. I'm also quite shocked they're not there, especially since DE only have 2 units.

Lictor’s being included throws that out the the window though. They’re both Finecast, and have no options. They also deploy similarly to Mandrakes.

Yeah, not having the mandrakes feels like a headscratcher to me since they've confirmed lictors, commandos and rangers already.

I don't play Dark Eldar, but I like the Wracks models and was all excited to buy a box for Kill Team. Oh well, maybe they'll show up down the line.

Not to be a conspiracists, but I'd figure the only way mandrake don't make it in would be a new kit is in the pipeline, and will be repurposed as expansion fodder.

Neronoxx wrote:
Not to be a conspiracists, but I'd figure the only way mandrake don't make it in would be a new kit is in the pipeline, and will be repurposed as expansion fodder.

They might even get their own Codex the way they have been writting the fluff.....

Could be interesting - maybe like Flesh Eater Courts and fo course gives them yet another excuse not to bother with anything related to SOB.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
Not to be a conspiracists, but I'd figure the only way mandrake don't make it in would be a new kit is in the pipeline, and will be repurposed as expansion fodder.

They might even get their own Codex the way they have been writting the fluff.....

Could be interesting - maybe like Flesh Eater Courts and fo course gives them yet another excuse not to bother with anything related to SOB.

Surely you know by now that GW is releasing SoB sometime next year? Whole new plastic line. If they plan to change the army dramatically there may not be a point to putting rules in the KT publication just yet(or they felt they could omit now and add later to save time/be lazy).

This is simply an addition to their revenue stream as i see it.

Make GW only terrain mandatory for Kill Team by having it in the rules etc.
Bundle models with terrain at better margins and added value/fun for the player.
Exclusively release new models with terrain at even better margins for KT.
Re-release some of the new models at a later time for 40k without bundled terrain for a "better" price.

Don't mind it though as long we actually get new models.

A little late for Tyranids, but thankfully they have more models(hopefully, that means Warriors will be very expensive).

As for Harlequins, I am not looking forward to Sunday....

X078 wrote:
This is simply an addition to their revenue stream as i see it.

Make GW only terrain mandatory for Kill Team by having it in the rules etc.
Bundle models with terrain at better margins and added value/fun for the player.
Exclusively release new models with terrain at even better margins for KT.
Re-release some of the new models at a later time for 40k without bundled terrain for a "better" price.

Don't mind it though as long we actually get new models.

How is GW terrain mandatory for Kill Team? If you’re talking about the preview article maps, those are suggested terrain setups, not mandatory.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Rik Lightstar wrote:
This thread is great, so many people assuming that GW is telling us everything about every faction in each focus article.....

It seems more likely there will be 1 or 2 additional options for each faction that they've not mentioned. That way for all the over-eager people who build a Kill-Team based on the articles there's going to be a reason to buy another box too.

Rik

dude, these are what you're getting. Look at what box sets they have already shown... there is very unlikely to be stuff they haven't told us about especially as it cimes out soon and they're getting people ready by getting you to already have your teams ready.

It's going to be funny if gw messes up the balance because they only have like 4 unjts max in each faction to do. XD

There's all the specialists options - we've only had a brief glimpse at one of those. That alone will add variety to the two unit options in a Dark Eldar kill team, especially in Narrative Play.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

rhavien wrote:

I don't expect any flying or jumping troops at the initial release at this point.

Same here. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see expansions in the future that focus on high speed units like jump infantry and bikes, and heavy or super elite units like Custodes and Terminators. Not to mention if GW do keep there word about future support for the game, any new plastic infantry kits would have a good chance of being included to expand there factions roster.

there are already jump troops in the game, Primaris Reivers(unless they don't get grav-chute/grappling hook)

 Sinful Hero wrote:

X078 wrote:
This is simply an addition to their revenue stream as i see it.

Make GW only terrain mandatory for Kill Team by having it in the rules etc.
Bundle models with terrain at better margins and added value/fun for the player.
Exclusively release new models with terrain at even better margins for KT.
Re-release some of the new models at a later time for 40k without bundled terrain for a "better" price.

Don't mind it though as long we actually get new models.

How is GW terrain mandatory for Kill Team? If you’re talking about the preview article maps, those are suggested terrain setups, not mandatory.

Just my view of it but the terrain in the pictures shown so far is really specific so i wouldn't be surprised if it's the case, similar to bring only GW models to GW events etc.
Terrain has been a largely untapped source from their side so far.

X078 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

X078 wrote:
This is simply an addition to their revenue stream as i see it.

Make GW only terrain mandatory for Kill Team by having it in the rules etc.
Bundle models with terrain at better margins and added value/fun for the player.
Exclusively release new models with terrain at even better margins for KT.
Re-release some of the new models at a later time for 40k without bundled terrain for a "better" price.

Don't mind it though as long we actually get new models.

How is GW terrain mandatory for Kill Team? If you’re talking about the preview article maps, those are suggested terrain setups, not mandatory.

Just my view of it but the terrain in the pictures shown so far is really specific so i wouldn't be surprised if it's the case, similar to bring only GW models to GW events etc.
Terrain has been a largely untapped source from their side so far.

In the community article with the terrain maps you can faintly make out “Create the battlefield and set up terrain. An example of how you might do this is shown below” under the Battlefield section. It’s a recommendation, not set in stone for the scenario.

Yeah maybe, just have to wait and see, like i said i don't mind it and a bit more rules control on the terrain part in KT would be a a good opportunity and welcomed in my view.
Might even be better for matched play and probably make for a tighter ruleset i.e. a space marine is a space marine and a ruins is a ruins and so on.

X078 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

X078 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

X078 wrote:
This is simply an addition to their revenue stream as i see it.

Make GW only terrain mandatory for Kill Team by having it in the rules etc.
Bundle models with terrain at better margins and added value/fun for the player.
Exclusively release new models with terrain at even better margins for KT.
Re-release some of the new models at a later time for 40k without bundled terrain for a "better" price.

Don't mind it though as long we actually get new models.

How is GW terrain mandatory for Kill Team? If you’re talking about the preview article maps, those are suggested terrain setups, not mandatory.

Just my view of it but the terrain in the pictures shown so far is really specific so i wouldn't be surprised if it's the case, similar to bring only GW models to GW events etc.
Terrain has been a largely untapped source from their side so far.

In the community article with the terrain maps you can faintly make out “Create the battlefield and set up terrain. An example of how you might do this is shown below” under the Battlefield section. It’s a recommendation, not set in stone for the scenario.

Yeah maybe, just have to wait and see, like i said i don't mind it and a bit more rules control on the terrain part in KT would be a a good opportunity and welcomed in my view.
Might even be better for matched play and probably make for a tighter ruleset i.e. a space marine is a space marine and a ruins is a ruins and so on.

A tightening of the rules is always welcome in my book.