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Only Primaris commanders for Adeptus Astartes?

Also looks like once again the named characters are Space Wolves which is frustrating - but then again I suppose if it's a named character it has to be chapter specific.

Well at the very least my Primaris Chaplain will be seeing an expanded role on the battlefield!

His smaller brethren shall have to look on in jealousy...

StraightSilver wrote:
Also looks like once again the named characters are Space Wolves which is frustrating - but then again I suppose if it's a named character it has to be chapter specific.

All the Commander boxes clearly tie in, fluffwise, to their corresponding Kill Team starter sets. All Commander boxes to be released will be for factions that also already had a Kill Team starter. Oddly, the Tyranids and Genestealers, who already had Kill Team boxes released, don't seem to get their commanders in this release, even though we have seen their boxes teased a while ago already.

We haven't seen anything on Commanders so far for factions that haven't received a Starter Box yet. I'm half expecting that henceforward, any factions that receive KT starter sets will immediately also see a Commander box. This also explains why Chaos isn't included in this release, as the only factions missing their KT starters currently are Grey Knights, Harlequins and Craftworld Eldar, and all Chaos factions.

StraightSilver wrote:
Also looks like once again the named characters are Space Wolves which is frustrating - but then again I suppose if it's a named character it has to be chapter specific.

Well, it's not like there is anything stopping you from running your Imperial Fists as counts as Space Wolves.

Rogue Trader has the core Commander rules, so here’s the helpful summary again:

When you add a Commander to your roster, you choose what level they are and which Traits you want to take for them. They do not gain XP, they are fixed once added. Points wise, the two in RT start in the 40s and can max out at over 150 - so they are significant portions of your list.

They can only be used in missions that either explicitly say all players must bring Commanders or that they may mutually agree to do so - there is no being surprised by a Broodlord in a standard mission. Kill Teams with Commanders are built on 150 points.

Commanders yield an extra XP for a specialist or fire team that takes them out of action. They have their own casualty table and can’t be killed.

So yes, they are very powerful, but they won’t be showing up all the time. They also give high damage weapons a better purpose in Kill Team - being able to knock them down from full Wounds to 0 and forcing an Injury roll on 4 or more dice is much more significant on a 90 point model instead of a 9 point one.

Blastaar wrote:
I really dislike the idea and implementation of commanders. I don't think the concept really fits what KT is allegedly aiming to do. Why does GW insist on telling players what to do, instead of giving them a framework to play their way? Pre-built, named characters just make the game more bland. But hey, at least it's a narrative game with deep squad customi..... oh.

The neat thing is, you can choose to bring one, or not to bring one! Sounds like choice to me.

Well, I'm relieved to read that use of Commanders isn't essential for every game of Killteam.

Apropo of something - played a game this weekend where my opponents 1K Son's Aspiring Sorceror killed one of my Skitarii miniatures a turn using the psychic power listed in the rules (psybolt?).

Psykers are crazy-strong in this game.

I'm pumped to finish my Necron team now, haven't been too interested with the few bots we've got, but I can get behind an overlord (gonna probably pretend he's a particularly buff lord, kinda strange IMO that an overlord is schlepping his way through KT missions) kicking butts and eating meltaguns

- Salvage

Alendrel wrote:
Commanders yield an extra XP for a specialist or fire team that takes them out of action. They have their own casualty table and can’t be killed.

They are also slightly more likely to get an XP for being taken out of action by the enemy commander.

What a bizarre choice for a first expansion to Kill Team.

We're still sticking to the asinine "no heavy infantry because they're just too big for the game mode" policy, but we're throwing Primaris Captains, Deathwatch Watch Masters, and Techpriest Dominii into the game?

A standard Tactical Terminator or Crisis Suit is "too big" but somehow a T4 W5 2+ 5++ Techpriest Dominus who regenerates D3 missing wounds per turn is supposed to be balanced in a gamemode where his opponents get 100 points of models to try and bite through his shiny metal ass?

ugh. Two expansions in and GW is already letting sales come WAY before balance with this crap. This expansion exists and comes out now solely because it's a convenient way to sell plastic clampack characters to Kill Team players. The balance is going to be hideous with some of these heavy characters in standard games. If you think dealing with five Plague Marine teams is obnoxious, just wait until you go up against a Deathwatch Primaris Librarian with 5 wounds gaking out full power smites and shooting you with his 2+ to wound bolter every turn before chopping you up with his what, 4 attacks with a D3 damage power sword?

Good thing they can't be used in standard games then!

Kinda surprised they didn't use the Primaris Apothecary as a Commander option.

And I'm close to selling off my CSM, so I wanna see what options they get (besides the Vrosh Tattersoul model that's like 5 dollars online but they sell for 30)

Alendrel wrote:
Good thing they can't be used in standard games then!

good thing the best part of this expansion is you can choose not to play with it?

the_scotsman wrote:
What a bizarre choice for a first expansion to Kill Team.

We're still sticking to the asinine "no heavy infantry because they're just too big for the game mode" policy, but we're throwing Primaris Captains, Deathwatch Watch Masters, and Techpriest Dominii into the game?

A standard Tactical Terminator or Crisis Suit is "too big" but somehow a T4 W5 2+ 5++ Techpriest Dominus who regenerates D3 missing wounds per turn is supposed to be balanced in a gamemode where his opponents get 100 points of models to try and bite through his shiny metal ass?

ugh. Two expansions in and GW is already letting sales come WAY before balance with this crap. This expansion exists and comes out now solely because it's a convenient way to sell plastic clampack characters to Kill Team players. The balance is going to be hideous with some of these heavy characters in standard games. If you think dealing with five Plague Marine teams is obnoxious, just wait until you go up against a Deathwatch Primaris Librarian with 5 wounds gaking out full power smites and shooting you with his 2+ to wound bolter every turn before chopping you up with his what, 4 attacks with a D3 damage power sword?

To be fair they haven't showed us any Commander's KT datasheet yet, so they might have fewer wounds and generally be (a bit) weaker than in regular 40k. On the one hand, that mostly isn't the case for the regular units, on the other hand, having "weaker" commanders just for KT makes sense to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm interested to see what weapon options commanders will have, or if we're stuck with whatever specific models they had in mind when picking the datasheet in question.

 Insane Ivan wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
What a bizarre choice for a first expansion to Kill Team.

We're still sticking to the asinine "no heavy infantry because they're just too big for the game mode" policy, but we're throwing Primaris Captains, Deathwatch Watch Masters, and Techpriest Dominii into the game?

A standard Tactical Terminator or Crisis Suit is "too big" but somehow a T4 W5 2+ 5++ Techpriest Dominus who regenerates D3 missing wounds per turn is supposed to be balanced in a gamemode where his opponents get 100 points of models to try and bite through his shiny metal ass?

ugh. Two expansions in and GW is already letting sales come WAY before balance with this crap. This expansion exists and comes out now solely because it's a convenient way to sell plastic clampack characters to Kill Team players. The balance is going to be hideous with some of these heavy characters in standard games. If you think dealing with five Plague Marine teams is obnoxious, just wait until you go up against a Deathwatch Primaris Librarian with 5 wounds gaking out full power smites and shooting you with his 2+ to wound bolter every turn before chopping you up with his what, 4 attacks with a D3 damage power sword?

To be fair they haven't showed us any Commander's KT datasheet yet, so they might have fewer wounds and generally be (a bit) weaker than in regular 40k. On the one hand, that mostly isn't the case for the regular units, on the other hand, having "weaker" commanders just for KT makes sense to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm interested to see what weapon options commanders will have, or if we're stuck with whatever specific models they had in mind when picking the datasheet in question.

Im guessing the answer to that question rhymes with "shmuck lith fhatever shmecific nodles thad" given the general policy regarding kill team so far.

But don't worry, these commanders will be the MOST CUSTOMIZABLE THING EVER!

you'll be able to decide whether your Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit is a close combat specialist, or a Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit aura power granting leader, or a Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit super-awesome shooting specialist, or whatever kind of Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit you want him to be!

We aren't gonna play with Commanders. They go agaisnt the original purpose of KT. And they look like they'll be a really big balance problem for not that much gameplay depth.

the_scotsman wrote:
But don't worry, these commanders will be the MOST CUSTOMIZABLE THING EVER!

you'll be able to decide whether your Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit is a close combat specialist, or a Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit aura power granting leader, or a Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit super-awesome shooting specialist, or whatever kind of Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit you want him to be!

But (SPOILERS!) you'll probably just run him with 1 maaaaybe 2 specialties anyway, because shallow GW meta is shallow / GW

- Salvage

the_scotsman wrote:

Alendrel wrote:
Good thing they can't be used in standard games then!

good thing the best part of this expansion is you can choose not to play with it?

I keep reposting this info for a reason.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Insane Ivan wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
What a bizarre choice for a first expansion to Kill Team.

We're still sticking to the asinine "no heavy infantry because they're just too big for the game mode" policy, but we're throwing Primaris Captains, Deathwatch Watch Masters, and Techpriest Dominii into the game?

A standard Tactical Terminator or Crisis Suit is "too big" but somehow a T4 W5 2+ 5++ Techpriest Dominus who regenerates D3 missing wounds per turn is supposed to be balanced in a gamemode where his opponents get 100 points of models to try and bite through his shiny metal ass?

ugh. Two expansions in and GW is already letting sales come WAY before balance with this crap. This expansion exists and comes out now solely because it's a convenient way to sell plastic clampack characters to Kill Team players. The balance is going to be hideous with some of these heavy characters in standard games. If you think dealing with five Plague Marine teams is obnoxious, just wait until you go up against a Deathwatch Primaris Librarian with 5 wounds gaking out full power smites and shooting you with his 2+ to wound bolter every turn before chopping you up with his what, 4 attacks with a D3 damage power sword?

To be fair they haven't showed us any Commander's KT datasheet yet, so they might have fewer wounds and generally be (a bit) weaker than in regular 40k. On the one hand, that mostly isn't the case for the regular units, on the other hand, having "weaker" commanders just for KT makes sense to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm interested to see what weapon options commanders will have, or if we're stuck with whatever specific models they had in mind when picking the datasheet in question.

Im guessing the answer to that question rhymes with "shmuck lith fhatever shmecific nodles thad" given the general policy regarding kill team so far.

But don't worry, these commanders will be the MOST CUSTOMIZABLE THING EVER!

you'll be able to decide whether your Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit is a close combat specialist, or a Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit aura power granting leader, or a Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit super-awesome shooting specialist, or whatever kind of Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit you want him to be!

.

 Togusa wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Insane Ivan wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
What a bizarre choice for a first expansion to Kill Team.

We're still sticking to the asinine "no heavy infantry because they're just too big for the game mode" policy, but we're throwing Primaris Captains, Deathwatch Watch Masters, and Techpriest Dominii into the game?

A standard Tactical Terminator or Crisis Suit is "too big" but somehow a T4 W5 2+ 5++ Techpriest Dominus who regenerates D3 missing wounds per turn is supposed to be balanced in a gamemode where his opponents get 100 points of models to try and bite through his shiny metal ass?

ugh. Two expansions in and GW is already letting sales come WAY before balance with this crap. This expansion exists and comes out now solely because it's a convenient way to sell plastic clampack characters to Kill Team players. The balance is going to be hideous with some of these heavy characters in standard games. If you think dealing with five Plague Marine teams is obnoxious, just wait until you go up against a Deathwatch Primaris Librarian with 5 wounds gaking out full power smites and shooting you with his 2+ to wound bolter every turn before chopping you up with his what, 4 attacks with a D3 damage power sword?

To be fair they haven't showed us any Commander's KT datasheet yet, so they might have fewer wounds and generally be (a bit) weaker than in regular 40k. On the one hand, that mostly isn't the case for the regular units, on the other hand, having "weaker" commanders just for KT makes sense to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm interested to see what weapon options commanders will have, or if we're stuck with whatever specific models they had in mind when picking the datasheet in question.

Im guessing the answer to that question rhymes with "shmuck lith fhatever shmecific nodles thad" given the general policy regarding kill team so far.

But don't worry, these commanders will be the MOST CUSTOMIZABLE THING EVER!

you'll be able to decide whether your Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit is a close combat specialist, or a Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit aura power granting leader, or a Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit super-awesome shooting specialist, or whatever kind of Ork Warboss With Attack Squig And Power Klaw And Combi-Rokkit you want him to be!

.

It was just a joke because someone said "hey golly maybe GW will be nice and drop their hyper-iron fist WYSIWYG rules and give players wargear customization options". I was laughing at how stupid and naive that statement was. I will personally eat my way through a hat store if they release these rules and it's not "every single warboss has a power klaw and kombi-rokkit. Every single fireblade has a pulse rifle and a goofy knife. Every single commissar has a power sword and plasma pistol. Every single watch master has a guardian spear. All of them. In the whole galaxy. They just really love those weapons in those specific combinations."

 Galas wrote:
We aren't gonna play with Commanders. They go agaisnt the original purpose of KT. And they look like they'll be a really big balance problem for not that much gameplay depth.

It's been, what, three months since Kill Team first launched? Rogue Trader even included Commanders, and we've known that game existed for the better part of a year, even before we knew Kill Team existed. It's obvious that Commanders don't "go against the original purpose of KT" - they were included in the design from the very beginning.

Hissy fits are fun. I love 'em. But don't let them blind you to obvious facts.

the_scotsman wrote:
What a bizarre choice for a first expansion to Kill Team.

We're still sticking to the asinine "no heavy infantry because they're just too big for the game mode" policy, but we're throwing Primaris Captains, Deathwatch Watch Masters, and Techpriest Dominii into the game

The answer is much simpler than you want. It's because 'hero' figs are already packaged in the right number to sell for the game. The other things you noted all come in 3s or 5s and they can't or don't want to break them up to sell singly...yet.

I really wonder if this game was done with the path of least resistance because GW wasn't sure it was going to fly or not. It's strange because they took a leap with Shadespire, which seems like the bigger of the two gambles. Yet while Shadespire gets lots of cool narrative models and rules specifically for its setting/scale, 40K get repackaged stuff--half of which many of us already own. Shouldn't Kill Team have been 40K Shadespire with cool kill teams of 3 to 10 miniatures...

And yet I save my coin for the next release...

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Galas wrote:
We aren't gonna play with Commanders. They go agaisnt the original purpose of KT. And they look like they'll be a really big balance problem for not that much gameplay depth.

It's been, what, three months since Kill Team first launched? Rogue Trader even included Commanders, and we've known that game existed for the better part of a year, even before we knew Kill Team existed. It's obvious that Commanders don't "go against the original purpose of KT" - they were included in the design from the very beginning.

Hissy fits are fun. I love 'em. But don't let them blind you to obvious facts.

GW: We have this new game we are launching called Kill Team, and we have years of support and expansions planned for it!

Rando: Sooooooooo you are saying the play experience in the core book is the only one we're ever going to get?

the_scotsman wrote:

It was just a joke because someone said "hey golly maybe GW will be nice and drop their hyper-iron fist WYSIWYG rules and give players wargear customization options". I was laughing at how stupid and naive that statement was. I will personally eat my way through a hat store if they release these rules and it's not "every single warboss has a power klaw and kombi-rokkit. Every single fireblade has a pulse rifle and a goofy knife. Every single commissar has a power sword and plasma pistol. Every single watch master has a guardian spear. All of them. In the whole galaxy. They just really love those weapons in those specific combinations."

I was just expressing my thoughts on the matter and not really looking for any replies on how “stupid and naive” I am. But thanks anyway.

As for the matter at hand, yes I expect them to have only aingle options for those units they only sell a single model for. But for Primaris Lieutenants, for example, or AM platoon commanders or Commissars, options do exist in GW model form. What I am interested in is if all those options (be they plastic, Finecast or mwtal) are going to be available.

 Insane Ivan wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

It was just a joke because someone said "hey golly maybe GW will be nice and drop their hyper-iron fist WYSIWYG rules and give players wargear customization options". I was laughing at how stupid and naive that statement was. I will personally eat my way through a hat store if they release these rules and it's not "every single warboss has a power klaw and kombi-rokkit. Every single fireblade has a pulse rifle and a goofy knife. Every single commissar has a power sword and plasma pistol. Every single watch master has a guardian spear. All of them. In the whole galaxy. They just really love those weapons in those specific combinations."

I was just expressing my thoughts on the matter and not really looking for any replies on how “stupid and naive” I am. But thanks anyway.

As for the matter at hand, yes I expect them to have only aingle options for those units they only sell a single model for. But for Primaris Lieutenants, for example, or AM platoon commanders or Commissars, options do exist in GW model form. What I am interested in is if all those options (be they plastic, Finecast or mwtal) are going to be available.

Not calling out you, just the statement in particular. I mean hey, it'd be nice if they included weapon options that exist on other models that they themselves sell, like for example the iconic bolt pistol on the commissar, or the powerfist that the other sculpt has, but I'd be very pleasantly surprised if that were the case. They seem really really unwilling to admit that finecast is a thing, and it would also, once again, single out the poor space marine players as getting utterly shafted by the Primaris Marine release.

Just look at that lineup for space marines. Man those Primaris sales numbers must be depressing. They're the headliners of the new edition, then their rules are crap, their sales are undercut by people being understandably hesitant about replacing their whole armies, their characters are both boring and hideously overpriced, and now they've resorted to cramming backstock of primaris marines into a new box set every month and jamming the clampack characters wholesale into Kill Team in a desperate attempt to get them moving.

One has to wonder just how much the need to sell these 35$ Primaris characters drove the fact that Commanders was the first expansion released for KT.

I really like kill team. I am currently builing a Astra Militarum and a GSC kill team. And so far the expansions are nice. I really want to try the Ultra-close confines from rogue trader and bringing a hero in a game of a few special selected models sound really cool. But I think its about time we get some new models. I mean most Armies have models that are 10 years old or something.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Galas wrote:
We aren't gonna play with Commanders. They go agaisnt the original purpose of KT. And they look like they'll be a really big balance problem for not that much gameplay depth.

It's been, what, three months since Kill Team first launched? Rogue Trader even included Commanders, and we've known that game existed for the better part of a year, even before we knew Kill Team existed. It's obvious that Commanders don't "go against the original purpose of KT" - they were included in the design from the very beginning.

Hissy fits are fun. I love 'em. But don't let them blind you to obvious facts.

We want our KillTeam to be about the average joe, their experiences and tales. Putting HQ's here erases that. Of course, as an expansion, anybody can do what they what with it. I was talking about me and my group.

 Galas wrote:


We want our KillTeam to be about the average joe, their experiences and tales. Putting HQ's here erases that. Of course, as an expansion, anybody can do what they what with it. I was talking about me and my group.

What you want != the original purpose of the game. And good thing that, as you note, if your group doesn't want to use them then you just don't!

I'm interested to see what the factions that don't have a pile of individual character models for GW to easily re-release will get to select as Commanders.