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 Crimson wrote:


A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!

Same for me (also i dont like the sigmar setting), i want to construct my own characters, have already started on some Whitescars- http://picbear.club/media/1720672020235312929_6000229864

Also, in terms of tournament play i dont like the idea of it just being the same preset characters against each other for example in marine vs marine games- id much rather go with the same way the LOTR events work; you bring one good army and one evil army, keep it narrative. So you could bring one imperium force and one chaos/xenos force and play an even amount of games with each through the day.

Process wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 warboss wrote:
That might get me to check it out. I have no interest anymore in chasing codex books that are only good for 2-3 years on average.

That´s 40K in a nutshell. The aim of the hobby is not to collect, paint and use stuff for wargames but to chase codex books. That´s why I quit after 5th.

Killteam would be interesting for me, if all the factions would get a brand new box of minis exclusively designed for this game. Individual named models would come with stat cards and even have a small portion of fluff in the rulebook like in Space Hulk or Deathwatch.

So for you a "shadespire 40k" game would be more interesting? with set characters and abilities out of the box?

I never have played Shadespire but I enjoy Freebooter´s Fate a lot. The latter is a pirate skirmish game with fantasy elements. Every character in this game is represented by a stat card and corresponding fluff in the rulebook. So they never accumulate XP like in Blood Bowl or Necromunda but you can equip them with wargear cards. The game uses alternate activations and is a blast to play.

And now to your question. If this new Killteam thing would be anything like Freebooter´s Fate, I wouldn´t hesitate to buy a couple of minis for my favourite factions. But we know that this not going to happen. Killteam is just a gateway game to 40K with old minis like Shadowwar Armageddon. However if you want to get my attention you need new minis. Just take a look at Necromunda. They produced a lot of great figures.

 Crimson wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

Killteam would be interesting for me, if all the factions would get a brand new box of minis exclusively designed for this game. Individual named models would come with stat cards and even have a small portion of fluff in the rulebook like in Space Hulk or Deathwatch.

Hell no! The whole point is that you can make your own characters from existing kits!

There's an argument to be made for that setup though. It's been a way to add characters to a few armies(Right now, the only named Fyreslayer comes from Shadespire) or to add a "unit" with a low points value.

I would totally be down for a "Sack the Necron Tomb World" game where it's a band of Alaitoc trying to reclaim the lost relics of a Phoenix Lord from their Craftworld, Stygies VIII AdMech trying to get their hands on Necron tech, Necrons trying to keep everyone off their damn lawn, and Deathwatch trying to destroy the Necrons as they slumber.

Process wrote:

So for you a "shadespire 40k" game would be more interesting? with set characters and abilities out of the box?

A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!

Truthfully, that's a big part of why Shadespire works. Everything's been balanced, packaged, and delivered that way.

Without derailing the thread into a discussion about Shadespire I would say that although Shadespire does have pre-set characters it doesn't have pre-set decks, so 2 opponents facing off with the exact same models will have 2 very different lists.

There are now enough cards to run all the factions in a lot of different ways, the cards are what make the game customisable.

Process wrote:

Same for me (also i dont like the sigmar setting), i want to construct my own characters, have already started on some Whitescars- http://picbear.club/media/1720672020235312929_6000229864

Also, in terms of tournament play i dont like the idea of it just being the same preset characters against each other for example in marine vs marine games- id much rather go with the same way the LOTR events work; you bring one good army and one evil army, keep it narrative. So you could bring one imperium force and one chaos/xenos force and play an even amount of games with each through the day.

I don't think I've really done a 'mirror match' for Shadespire. Most people have a few warbands at this point given the price point and the cards being put across the sets.


With that said, I think the Kill Team push is going to also be to coincide with the RPG. It even kinda/sorta seemed to hint at that.

StraightSilver wrote:
Without derailing the thread into a discussion about Shadespire I would say that although Shadespire does have pre-set characters it doesn't have pre-set decks, so 2 opponents facing off with the exact same models will have 2 very different lists.

There are now enough cards to run all the factions in a lot of different ways, the cards are what make the game customisable.

Firstly, ive not played shadespire so pardon my ignorance with regards to the gameplay etc.

That would again be quite a big turn off for me personally though, the models and the "aesthetic" of a game matter to me, so to me that might as well be just a card game.

I want to be able to choose the models i want to use, give them the weapons i want and the specialism i want. So they're MY guys haha.

I know its just wish listing but i can dream right?

StraightSilver wrote:
Without derailing the thread into a discussion about Shadespire I would say that although Shadespire does have pre-set characters it doesn't have pre-set decks, so 2 opponents facing off with the exact same models will have 2 very different lists.

There are now enough cards to run all the factions in a lot of different ways, the cards are what make the game customisable.

That's true, but a customisable game is not the same as a customisable team, nor is any minimal level of customisation enough to satisfy everyone. Shadespire works for people who like that kind of game because it's "pure", it doesn't try to be anything it's not, or cram in any mechanics that don't fit, or appeal to people who're not into competitive deckbuilders. If Shadespire also tried to appeal to narrative campaign gamers who want customisable warbands that grow and change, they would either be so neutered in order to fit into the quickfire tournament setup that they'd be a pointless addition that most competitive players wouldn't use and most narrative campaign gamers wouldn't find appealing, or they'd intrude on the "carefully balanced" deckbuilding aspect in a way that would piss off competitive gamers.

From the narrative campaign side of things - I have zero interest in a campaign game that doesn't let me create my own teams with my own characters, because frankly I don't give the tiniest gak about the adventures of Sir Copyright Intellectual Propertericus and his band of mighty Trademarknaughts. I don't care for Special Characters in 40K for the same reason - their stories can never really be my stories. I don't really see how you can square the circle in a way that pleases both styles of player.

Process wrote:

 Crimson wrote:


A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!

Same for me (also i dont like the sigmar setting), i want to construct my own characters, have already started on some Whitescars

I don't see the problem. Like, at all. The very first WC Shadespire article was about Duncan customizing his team by converting all three. Do tell me, what exactly is the difference between 3 set minis you can convert into what you want, and points-building 3 minis where you can only afford 3 models? Literally none. Yes, in Shadespire choices are "limited" in a sense Space Marine might start with bolter due to balance, but nothing stops you from deploying plasma gun card on the mini during game to upgrade him. You build your team partially through your deck, in a lot of ways it's much more flexible and 'your own' system than KT way of building set team (which will mostly consist of bolter mooks anyway) and being stuck with it through the game.

 Irbis wrote:

Process wrote:

 Crimson wrote:


A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!

Same for me (also i dont like the sigmar setting), i want to construct my own characters, have already started on some Whitescars

I don't see the problem. Like, at all. The very first WC Shadespire article was about Duncan customizing his team by converting all three. Do tell me, what exactly is the difference between 3 set minis you can convert into what you want, and points-building 3 minis where you can only afford 3 models? Literally none. Yes, in Shadespire choices are "limited" in a sense Space Marine might start with bolter due to balance, but nothing stops you from deploying plasma gun card on the mini during game to upgrade him. You build your team partially through your deck, in a lot of ways it's much more flexible and 'your own' system than KT way of building set team (which will mostly consist of bolter mooks anyway) and being stuck with it through the game.

If you honestly can't see the difference between a system like Necromunda or Inquisimunda or Mordheim where you build a an entirely custom group of models from a selection, give them entirely custom equipment, and have them evolve over the course of a campaign gaining stat increase & skills and also should you choose selecting new equipment from an even broader selection using specific postgame mechanics, and a game where you can make the same three characters everyone playing that warband gets look a bit different and give them a different weapon as part of the deckbuilding, then I don't know what to tell you.

Well its kind of a moot point, it's pretty obvious kill team will be nothing like shadespire. I think that's a good thing but others disagree.

I just want GW to stick with a system and support it. Shadow war and kill team 7th were fun but flawed systems that could've easily been fixed with a bit of work. Yet GW would pop out a single box, maybe release a couple free pdfs, then call it a day. Then 8th dropped and really killed both games overnight. GW probably realized how popular those games were, both sold really fast right off the bat. In my area alone we had our player count triple overnight when kill team dropped. Those players were then left in the cold when the games were dropped a few months later and they couldn't afford full armies yet

Yeah, I feel a bit burned by SW:A launching when it did and being superceded by this in fairly short order. Did at least get lots of lovely scenery out of that. But from that experience I'm definitely not rushing out to buy new Kill Team on day one. Hell, the Kill Team incarnation before SW:A lasted an even shorter time if memory serves

Kill Team 7th suffered greatly by the need to own the appropriate codex and not having the stats for the different factions built in. Unless you were going to go out and pirate the pdf or something, the buy-in also required that hefty, expensive hardcover codex.

For each group of 10 guys you wanted to run.

Must be losing it, thought I posted my question on here...so, anyway.

Would I be able to field Kroots and/or Vespid as a single Killteam?

Do answer that question we need to wait for the rules

 Yodhrin wrote:
If you honestly can't see the difference between a system like Necromunda or Inquisimunda or Mordheim where you build a an entirely custom group of models from a selection, give them entirely custom equipment, and have them evolve over the course of a campaign gaining stat increase & skills and also should you choose selecting new equipment from an even broader selection using specific postgame mechanics, and a game where you can make the same three characters everyone playing that warband gets look a bit different and give them a different weapon as part of the deckbuilding, then I don't know what to tell you.

Nice fantasy you have got here. Sadly, I am familiar with contents of the sprues of the factions that will go into Kill Team and vast majority of them has nowhere near the level of customization Necromunda has. Maybe you should wake up and realize chances GW will give you options to customize that are not present on sprues are slim to none?

In fact, Shadespire approach would be much more likely to allow you to have fancy gear on your guys, either because that would be their default loadout or because adding upgrade card to deck is way easier than magically conjuring up new plastic from thin air. Stat increase/custom traits you can do in both systems so you don't have ground there either, in fact Shadespire allows you to 'level up' or change loadout during the game, unlike KT, so it's more flexible there too.

Would I be able to field Kroots and/or Vespid as a single Killteam?

Most likely, seeing GW has no other way to fulfill their boast of 'dozens' of factions other than artificially inflate their number by pumping up subfactions...

 Irbis wrote:

Would I be able to field Kroots and/or Vespid as a single Killteam?

Most likely, seeing GW has no other way to fulfill their boast of 'dozens' of factions other than artificially inflate their number by pumping up subfactions...

Actually, as pointed out before, the GW site currently lists 29 factions for 40k. Leaving out both Imperial and Renegade Knights as unlikely to be included, Ynnari and Offico Assasinorum as “too small” (though I could well see them as Kill team factions nonetheless), and counting Space Marines and Ultramarines as the “same” faction for argument’s sake, that still leaves 24 factions, which fits the “dozens” exactly.

That said, I’d expect we’ll have a lot more options for models to include than SWA did, and can’t see a reason why Kroot or Vespid wouldn’t be included. We’ll need to wait for the rules to see exactly what we can and cannot take, though.

 Irbis wrote:

Would I be able to field Kroots and/or Vespid as a single Killteam?

Most likely, seeing GW has no other way to fulfill their boast of 'dozens' of factions other than artificially inflate their number by pumping up subfactions...

Not counting Imperial Knights and Renegade Knights, there's already 27 'factions' without adding any additional subfactions.

 Irbis wrote:
Stat increase/custom traits you can do in both systems so you don't have ground there either, in fact Shadespire allows you to 'level up' or change loadout during the game, unlike KT, so it's more flexible there too.

There's still a big difference there: "Levelling up" or changing loadout during the game and then resetting everything back to baseline after the game, versus having the changes you make to your team persist between games. That's a vitally important difference, and produces radically different games - the first is much easier to balance fairly and can build a great competitive scene, but the second builds the player's emotional investment and sense of ownership in their team (but is almost always unbalanced to heck). Different players are looking for different things, and no matter what form Kill Team takes, some of them are going to be disappointed.

For someone not following every bit of news, is this looking a bit like a 40k battle company type thing?

Vorian wrote:
For someone not following every bit of news, is this looking a bit like a 40k battle company type thing?

It's a skirmish game. Around 5-15 models per side depending on how elite they are.
In many cases, a single infantry box will be enough to play. Hopefully most armies will have options to include bigger models (like a single crisis suit for Tau, or a couple Reavers for the wychs), but we don't know yet.

If we can do a nice mix up representing a unique Inquisitorial band, it would be great.

As would including the occasional Space Marine in with the 'normal' humans.

 Mysterio wrote:
If we can do a nice mix up representing a unique Inquisitorial band, it would be great.

As would including the occasional Space Marine in with the 'normal' humans.

I'm with you there. I'd love to do an inquisitorial Warband around Eisenhorn. Model the different characters and use the rules that best correspond to the character, etc....

THAT would get me into the painting and conversion aspect of it for sure.

For those that missed the post, this is a great video the summarizes all the rules that could be gleaned from the sample pages that GW revealed in their video.

Short version:
- Kill Teams will have 1 Leader specialist
- Also up to 3 other specialists
- The rest will be rank-and-file
- Specialists will be able to advance on Ability trees
- Ability trees have 3 levels of branches
- The "4th" level will be to pick any other ability in the tree
- There will be Intelligence and Morale that is tracked between missions

 schoon wrote:
For those that missed the post, this is a great video the summarizes all the rules that could be gleaned from the sample pages that GW revealed in their video.

Short version:
- Kill Teams will have 1 Leader specialist
- Also up to 3 other specialists
- The rest will be rank-and-file
- Specialists will be able to advance on Ability trees
- Ability trees have 3 levels of branches
- The "4th" level will be to pick any other ability in the tree
- There will be Intelligence and Morale that is tracked between missions

Thanks always prefer a written version

 schoon wrote:
For those that missed the post, this is a great video the summarizes all the rules that could be gleaned from the sample pages that GW revealed in their video.

Short version:
- Kill Teams will have 1 Leader specialist
- Also up to 3 other specialists
- The rest will be rank-and-file
- Specialists will be able to advance on Ability trees
- Ability trees have 3 levels of branches
- The "4th" level will be to pick any other ability in the tree
- There will be Intelligence and Morale that is tracked between missions

Intelligence tests? Yeah, I want to see the likes of Termagants hacking computer terminals and whatnot. I am also curious, if Tyranid bugs are compatible with imperial software.

A leader would imply using some sort of Brain Bug.

Aren't they all connected through a synapse system?

Perhaps that's something unique to the Nids', the troops models can use their Brain Bugs intelligence stat when attempting things that require that test.

Kill Team ? More like Kill Team 2018
Google " kill team rulebook" and you will find the free rulebook they released in 2013 iirc, before they priced it in 2016, and it will be 95% the same as the new one.
The usable units in the current edition are :

 Strg Alt wrote:

 schoon wrote:
For those that missed the post, this is a great video the summarizes all the rules that could be gleaned from the sample pages that GW revealed in their video.

Short version:
- Kill Teams will have 1 Leader specialist
- Also up to 3 other specialists
- The rest will be rank-and-file
- Specialists will be able to advance on Ability trees
- Ability trees have 3 levels of branches
- The "4th" level will be to pick any other ability in the tree
- There will be Intelligence and Morale that is tracked between missions

Intelligence tests? Yeah, I want to see the likes of Termagants hacking computer terminals and whatnot. I am also curious, if Tyranid bugs are compatible with imperial software.

Actually in old Lore the Tyranids where able to "possess" a Imperial Titan using their bio-morphfs to adapt and hack even the machine spirit.

Eh, that’s more because a Titan’s machine spirit is actually built on organic tissue than some mystical ability to haxx0r j00r t¡t4n…

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Eh, that’s more because a Titan’s machine spirit is actually built on organic tissue than some mystical ability to haxx0r j00r t¡t4n…

Actually it's more to do with some authors fully buying into the "it's fantasy so nothing matters do what you like brah" mindset and either not knowing or not caring how Titans work - I've never seen any suggestion that a Titan's machine spirit is based on a biological substrate, it exists apart from the biological crew - see also Tau tech somehow hacking and neutralising effects produced by Tyranid biology.