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2018/04/30 11:06:25
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
I recently purchased a ton of Deathwatch models and have been holding off on building them until the Codex hits.
This is mostly because of confusion about the weapons options. I thought the Index entries were just typos, there's no way they could be this poorly equipped. Even putting together an army list was tough, they are very expensive for what they can carry.
Looking forward to seeing what's in the new Codex. I don't really want to go the Primaris route with them and hope there's a lot more to the army than what we saw in the Index.
A couple of pics from the new white dwarf. Harlequins codex is up for preorder on May 12th. The webway gate is getting a week to itself on the 19th for some reason. £25 for the kit is a good price though.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/04/30 11:12:29
2018/04/30 11:16:55
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
AUD$70 for the Wraithgate? That's got to be a typo. It's clearly missing the second zero.
[EDIT]: Wait a second. The Wraithgate kit gets you one spire, right? So you'd need two to do what they do in the picture? Right? Or is my cynicism getting the better of it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/30 11:18:36
I hope GW pulls back from the no model, no rules thing. Deathwatch really is the worst example of this. Not holding my breath, but hope springs eternal (and is the first step on the road to disappointment)
H.B.M.C. wrote: AUD$70 for the Wraithgate? That's got to be a typo. It's clearly missing the second zero.
[EDIT]: Wait a second. The Wraithgate kit gets you one spire, right? So you'd need two to do what they do in the picture? Right? Or is my cynicism getting the better of it.
No. Just like 99% of the terrain that has come out lately, it will have two of the same sprue.
Great to hear on the price of the portal. Especially considering that they'll almost certainly try to buff up sales volume by making them only useful if you buy 2+.
To differentiate them from the wwp Stratagem I'm guessing they have a necron monolith-esque hop from one to the other ability.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/04/30 11:30:09
Subject: Re:Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
€32.50?! Colour me (pleasantly) surprised! I mean, I've no way to transport one to games, but it's pretty darn cool nonetheless.
I have a theory though... that it's actually a precursor to an Exodites release that'll be announced at Warhammer Fest. In the fluff they're often fighting Knights Households... JUst a notion!
2018/04/30 11:55:12
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
the_scotsman wrote: Great to hear on the price of the portal. Especially considering that they'll almost certainly try to buff up sales volume by making them only useful if you buy 2+.
To differentiate them from the wwp Stratagem I'm guessing they have a necron monolith-esque hop from one to the other ability.
Honestly, I'd take it a step further. Given the new bit for Deep Strike rules, I could see you being able to deploy the Webway Portal before sides are picked. It'd let Eldar deep strike in without concern in T1 outside of their deployment zone, but man does it make them juicy targets.
2018/04/30 11:55:14
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
H.B.M.C. wrote: AUD$70 for the Wraithgate? That's got to be a typo. It's clearly missing the second zero.
[EDIT]: Wait a second. The Wraithgate kit gets you one spire, right? So you'd need two to do what they do in the picture? Right? Or is my cynicism getting the better of it.
It reads "...wraith constructs [plural] standing sentinel on the outsides [plural] of the gate's arms [plural]" with a picture showing a gate with two arms.
Healthy cynicism is healthy and all that, but I think there might just be two spires in the box.
the_scotsman wrote: Great to hear on the price of the portal. Especially considering that they'll almost certainly try to buff up sales volume by making them only useful if you buy 2+.
To differentiate them from the wwp Stratagem I'm guessing they have a necron monolith-esque hop from one to the other ability.
Honestly, I'd take it a step further. Given the new bit for Deep Strike rules, I could see you being able to deploy the Webway Portal before sides are picked. It'd let Eldar deep strike in without concern in T1 outside of their deployment zone, but man does it make them juicy targets.
Makes me wonder if the latest FAQ (and the associated shift in GW's view) will have any impact on it. Before that I would have said that the Eldar player may place the portal anywhere on the table with no regard for how close enemy models are, and allow models to come through and charge as they please. Could be a different story now that first turn deep strike has been limited.
Or Eldar get favored treatment again and the gate isn't considered deep strike, so they get to break the game to their heart's content after all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 12:00:26
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
2018/04/30 12:19:35
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
H.B.M.C. wrote: AUD$70 for the Wraithgate? That's got to be a typo. It's clearly missing the second zero.
[EDIT]: Wait a second. The Wraithgate kit gets you one spire, right? So you'd need two to do what they do in the picture? Right? Or is my cynicism getting the better of it.
It reads "...wraith constructs [plural] standing sentinel on the outsides [plural] of the gate's arms [plural]" with a picture showing a gate with two arms.
Healthy cynicism is healthy and all that, but I think there might just be two spires in the box.
the_scotsman wrote: Great to hear on the price of the portal. Especially considering that they'll almost certainly try to buff up sales volume by making them only useful if you buy 2+.
To differentiate them from the wwp Stratagem I'm guessing they have a necron monolith-esque hop from one to the other ability.
Honestly, I'd take it a step further. Given the new bit for Deep Strike rules, I could see you being able to deploy the Webway Portal before sides are picked. It'd let Eldar deep strike in without concern in T1 outside of their deployment zone, but man does it make them juicy targets.
Makes me wonder if the latest FAQ (and the associated shift in GW's view) will have any impact on it. Before that I would have said that the Eldar player may place the portal anywhere on the table with no regard for how close enemy models are, and allow models to come through and charge as they please. Could be a different story now that first turn deep strike has been limited.
Or Eldar get favored treatment again and the gate isn't considered deep strike, so they get to break the game to their heart's content after all.
Or, they make the rules pretty similar to the feculent Gnarlmaw: you buy them with points, set them down on the table while terrain is being set up (I.e. before you know where your deployment edge is going to be) and again this is pure speculation, I don't have rumors, but I'm guessing they allow you to warp a unit or units from inside one gate to inside another you have down on the table.
So gamewise, they wouldn't interact with the new beta rule, just like Orks with Da Jump and GK with GOI don't (because you'd be starting the models on the table and walking them through the portal) and they'd probably end up pointswise somewhat less expensive than sticking your army in transports, because you'd be much more exposed to shooting and you'd have fixed points you could transport between.
Personally, I wouldn't be too concerned about Harlequins getting access to turn 1 charges more easily. It's already laughably easy for them to do so. Twilight Pathways grants a unit of harlequins 16"+4D6" charge threat range, Solitaire Blitz grants the solitaire 12"+5D6" charge threat range, and the skyweavers have 22"+2D6" threat range. They can already charge straight across the board turn 1 and get to enemy units in melee.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/04/30 12:32:46
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
the_scotsman wrote: Great to hear on the price of the portal. Especially considering that they'll almost certainly try to buff up sales volume by making them only useful if you buy 2+.
To differentiate them from the wwp Stratagem I'm guessing they have a necron monolith-esque hop from one to the other ability.
Honestly, I'd take it a step further. Given the new bit for Deep Strike rules, I could see you being able to deploy the Webway Portal before sides are picked. It'd let Eldar deep strike in without concern in T1 outside of their deployment zone, but man does it make them juicy targets.
Makes me wonder if the latest FAQ (and the associated shift in GW's view) will have any impact on it. Before that I would have said that the Eldar player may place the portal anywhere on the table with no regard for how close enemy models are, and allow models to come through and charge as they please. Could be a different story now that first turn deep strike has been limited.
Or Eldar get favored treatment again and the gate isn't considered deep strike, so they get to break the game to their heart's content after all.
I wouldn't say it really becomes "favored" treatment. If a Webway Gate uses the same rules as Deep Strike(9" away from an enemy, etc)--then you can still deny them it even if they can Deep Strike outside of their Deployment Zone.
Or, they make the rules pretty similar to the feculent Gnarlmaw: you buy them with points, set them down on the table while terrain is being set up (I.e. before you know where your deployment edge is going to be) and again this is pure speculation, I don't have rumors, but I'm guessing they allow you to warp a unit or units from inside one gate to inside another you have down on the table.
So gamewise, they wouldn't interact with the new beta rule, just like Orks with Da Jump and GK with GOI don't (because you'd be starting the models on the table and walking them through the portal) and they'd probably end up pointswise somewhat less expensive than sticking your army in transports, because you'd be much more exposed to shooting and you'd have fixed points you could transport between.
Personally, I wouldn't be too concerned about Harlequins getting access to turn 1 charges more easily. It's already laughably easy for them to do so. Twilight Pathways grants a unit of harlequins 16"+4D6" charge threat range, Solitaire Blitz grants the solitaire 12"+5D6" charge threat range, and the skyweavers have 22"+2D6" threat range. They can already charge straight across the board turn 1 and get to enemy units in melee.
I don't think this is meant to be Harlequins only. If it were, I feel like it would be preordering the same week as their book(apparently the 12th?).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 12:34:13
2018/04/30 13:50:35
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2018/04/30 15:20:52
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
Nightlord1987 wrote: Gnarlmaws and all fortifications are set up and placed just like any other unit in your army, in your deployment zone and count as a drop.
Which might still be ok if the WWG has a specific rule that functions like Disembarking, rather than deploying from Tactical reserves.
And honestly, at ~120pts, it as to allow units to exit turn 1 outside the deployment zone, as otherwise it is a waste of points entirely.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Gnarlmaws and all fortifications are set up and placed just like any other unit in your army, in your deployment zone and count as a drop.
Which might still be ok if the WWG has a specific rule that functions like Disembarking, rather than deploying from Tactical reserves.
And honestly, at ~120pts, it as to allow units to exit turn 1 outside the deployment zone, as otherwise it is a waste of points entirely.
Beautiful model though. Definitely getting it.
-
And what if it allows for you to reinforce losses to a unit?
I can think of a few scenarios where it might not allow you to "exit turn 1 outside the deployment zone" but still be amazeballs.
2018/04/30 16:05:55
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
Hmm. Being able to portal around your deployment zone doesn't sound great, and reinforcements in your zone doesn't sound amazing either considering the short range of almost all aeldari units. Here's hoping it's not just for Dank Reapers to be even more op.
Something that could be used to establish board control without transports would be 100% my hope for the portal. Across all aeldari factions you see a theme similar to the marine problem where you want your iconic, gorgeous models on the table as little as possible because they're hiding in transports and have a 2s lifespan outside of them.
I play Harlequins for crazy clowns doing backflips dammit, not Venomspam 2: Venoms Join The Circus.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/04/30 16:34:08
Subject: Re:Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
Nightlord1987 wrote: Gnarlmaws and all fortifications are set up and placed just like any other unit in your army, in your deployment zone and count as a drop.
Which might still be ok if the WWG has a specific rule that functions like Disembarking, rather than deploying from Tactical reserves.
And honestly, at ~120pts, it as to allow units to exit turn 1 outside the deployment zone, as otherwise it is a waste of points entirely.
Beautiful model though. Definitely getting it.
-
And what if it allows for you to reinforce losses to a unit?
I can think of a few scenarios where it might not allow you to "exit turn 1 outside the deployment zone" but still be amazeballs.
You still have to pay points for those Reinforcements and thus not be able to use them in the first turn. Not very amazeballs, no matter how the rule works.
Also keep in mind that the gate looks like it can be destroyed, so not being able to use it effectively in the first turn risks not being able to use it AT ALL.
I can't help but wonder whether anyone at GW ever knew what they wanted to do with Deathwatch marines.
To me, at least, with my limited marine-based attention span, I thought Deatwatch were at the very least nifty because their shtick was "Specialized marines." It was a commando team where every guy was his own unique character and has his own signature gear, or fighting style, or whatever.
and with the kits, that *seemed* to be the way GW was approaching it. But in 7th they made the bizarre step of making the Kill Team, their signature unit, be a unit of specialized, individual units that you had to smash together into a single bizarre unit that just did not function together in any way.
It would seem like the way to go with deathwatch would be THE EXACT OPPOSITE of that - offset their low numbers by making them the ultimate MSU space marine army, with their operatives being more like bad ass individuals rather than regimented squads. Maybe make their terminators and bikers minimum unit size 1, their vets and jump pack marines be minimum unit size 3.
But instead, we have the opposite: The least flexible, weird and clunkiest hordes of dudes with non-synergizing weaponry, shackled together by invisible chains of unit coherency, forced to fight and move together despite having totally different roles in the team.
And now we're going to shove in Primaris Marines, who make the regular guys look super-customizable, and we're going to make sure any Deathwatch buffs get applied to the faceless clone troopers of the Primaris as well. Any improvements that work well on Primaris Marines will work terribly on hyper-customized, specialist Deathwatch with varied wargear.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/04/30 17:40:33
Subject: Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
2k Points
Competition Index
5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 
6k 
6k
3k 
