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Will see how it evolves and in particular if Set, Sobek and Bast appear / look like.

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Ahhhh gotcha. Also weird, I've not done a KS where heretofore unknown options appear later on, but I can see the appeal from a momentum boost / keep people involved standpoint.

It use to be more common years ago but CMoN is one of the few that still does it. Reaper does too.

I was hoping to back this, but some unexpected vet bills might keep me out.

But a dollar isn’t too much for now.

With the financials being held, I’ll wait for retail.

 Theophony wrote:
With the financials being held, I’ll wait for retail.

I'm in the same boat - do not trust CMON right now/already have a KS outstanding with them.

Will not back.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
With the financials being held, I’ll wait for retail.

I'm in the same boat - do not trust CMON right now/already have a KS outstanding with them.

Will not back.

They probably held back on this one knowing there were so many people wanting it that they would overlook the financial side, either that or they were hoping the marvel KS would have gone nuts and pulled them out. Either way I stayed safe with just the $1 spend on Zombicide second edition.

I’m still out about $100 from the old New Wave Games fiasco, I’d almost gotten over it .

Second BGG thread about the audit. Both threads have accountants and those with auditing experience commenting.

Short answer is that this is an orange or red flag.

Shortest answer is to pledge $1 and wait for more information.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2406847/analysis-cmon-financials/page/1

Is CMON taking any heat over this in the ANKH comments section?

A bit, but a lot of those making nasty comments I recognise as those who always back the CMON games, and always moan about them/claim they'll never back again

there are a number of worried regulars who wouldn't normaly be speaking this way too so there is an impact but I don't think it's huge

(especially compared to job/income problems due to covid or shipping costs)

I absolutely LOVE Egyptian myths and would love to back this, but even at $1 now and planning to up in the PM, I am not sure we'd have enough clarity at that point in time to trust that we know enough to commit...

 Alpharius wrote:
Is CMON taking any heat over this in the ANKH comments section?

I haven't seen any, but haven't been following closely. With 14K backers and only 25 comment per page refresh, I guess you'd have to refresh a bit.

However, on other funded CMON KS comments, you can see a little discussion, but nothing on the level of the accountant comments on BGG or Reddit. At least one backer thinks CMON's response is sufficient, but an accountant (?) on BGG disagreed.

I hope this gets resolved within a few months, by the time the PM closes. No company would want to have audit issues open that long.

*****

EDIT: Well, Rathpex posted this in the Living Dead comments.

Rathpex
about 22 hours ago

Thanks, I dont back much on kickstarter. I do know a lot about creditors both secured and unsecured.

Further, I have worked as an external auditor for a big 4 accounting firm and I know the severity of a going concern issue being raised.

You just need to look a little further to see how bad the cash situation must be over at CMON; there is a massive demand for the ASOIAF miniatures game but there is no stock globally. It beggers the question if they can afford to do more production.

If their disagreement with the auditors is so bad that the auditors will not remove the going concern issue - this means there is slim chance of this game or any of their other games to be funded without some type of a bailout.

I have seen their media response, if this was truly the case the auditors would be able to point to this as being fact and used to address their going concern issue.

There is more afoot here than their media statement says....

 ced1106 wrote:
Second BGG thread about the audit. Both threads have accountants and those with auditing experience commenting.

Short answer is that this is an orange or red flag.

Shortest answer is to pledge $1 and wait for more information.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2406847/analysis-cmon-financials/page/1

Still not really any useful info to be honest. Since the audit doesn't state what the problem is, which from what I read is uncommon, and CMoN not having release Q4 2019 yet we don't know the full picture.

I think the Reddit comments I posted the other day is still the most realistic explication and really the only one that tries to explain what's going on.

CMoN reports KSers as debt until fulfilled.
They had a big loan due end of 2019 (3.8 million) but we don't know the status of it and that could cause the concern.
Usually if you don't have enough money to pay the loan you can get a second loan to pay that off, not uncommon for companies, or renegotiate terms.
However due to CMoNs debt ratio banks may be wary of giving them another line of credit.

CMoN currently has 6 unfulfilled KSers and an 7th running plus TimeMachine (which wouldn't be debt). That's a lot of projects, debt, that they're carrying right now -- probably more then they ever have. Now that I think about it this can also explain why the did the TimeMachine KSer when they did as since all the product is in their warehouses then it doesn't count as a liability until delivered and counts as direct sales which would lower the debt ratio down and might help with a loan or was quick cash to make the renegotiated loan payment. Until we see their end of financial year reports though this is just baseless speculation like the various other sites.

Now should you back? CMoN fanboys will say it's not a big deal. People that hate KSer or CMoN for whatever reason say no. A lot of the talking heads on Reddit and BGG have some leg in the game due to their bias. But the only real correct answer for a KSer is never back if you cannot afford to loose the money or think you could which has come up in this thread before by others. I personally am willing to put that $1 down and see how things are around the time of the PM closing. I really hope they don't go down, I would like Anhk as well as Trudavang which I backed heavily but I am wary about it and since I can wait 2 months to see if I should spend $200 with shipping I can wait.

The scary parts to me are they did the time machine AND sold off a ton of stock to miniature market all in a short time to get cash. Now they have less stuff on hand to balance the debt with. I’m sure with the Coronavirus slowing shipping that they were hoping some of their already paid for product which is still in the debt category would get shipped and give them extra stock to sell its made it a bit harder to stay level.

I wonder if projects that were KS only (like Hate) were because they could not afford to buy extras beyond what was required to fill orders, or if it was just a marketing gimmick.

One good thing we will probably see is Dark Age and Wrath of Kings will probably get sold off if they are truly hurting for money.

I'm not sure why, but the minis just aren't really grabbing me on this one.
The high dose of anthropomorphic stuff plus even the basic guys looking super fancy just sort of mutes my interest.

 Theophony wrote:
One good thing we will probably see is Dark Age ... will probably get sold off if they are truly hurting for money.

Please yes and please please please get picked up by somebody competent! Tho with the market now I don't really know who that would be

 Theophony wrote:
The scary parts to me are they did the time machine AND sold off a ton of stock to miniature market all in a short time to get cash. Now they have less stuff on hand to balance the debt with. I’m sure with the Coronavirus slowing shipping that they were hoping some of their already paid for product which is still in the debt category would get shipped and give them extra stock to sell its made it a bit harder to stay level.

I wonder if projects that were KS only (like Hate) were because they could not afford to buy extras beyond what was required to fill orders, or if it was just a marketing gimmick.

One good thing we will probably see is Dark Age and Wrath of Kings will probably get sold off if they are truly hurting for money.

I forgot about the MM sales. Ya. Though both are also probably trying to clear out their warehouse so they don't have to keep paying for it as that's an expensive cost. Combined with the money needs.

 Gallahad wrote:
I'm not sure why, but the minis just aren't really grabbing me on this one.
The high dose of anthropomorphic stuff plus even the basic guys looking super fancy just sort of mutes my interest.

The anthro doesn't bother me much, but I understand all the detail and such. really make these minis much of of a time sink to paint.

 Theophony wrote:


One good thing we will probably see is Dark Age and Wrath of Kings will probably get sold off if they are truly hurting for money.

I don't want them to go under completely, as they owe a lot of people a lot of things, and I have 2 Kickstarters outstanding with them too...

...but if they could feel threatened enough to let Dark Age and Wrath of Kings go to someone who will 'do them right'?

That would be a good thing!

I can see, like, four different baseline models that only need a staff muzzle bit and some animal head but for Stargate conversions.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Theophony wrote:


One good thing we will probably see is Dark Age and Wrath of Kings will probably get sold off if they are truly hurting for money.

I don't want them to go under completely, as they owe a lot of people a lot of things, and I have 2 Kickstarters outstanding with them too...

...but if they could feel threatened enough to let Dark Age and Wrath of Kings go to someone who will 'do them right'?

That would be a good thing!

Wrath of Kings maybe but isn't Dark Age David Doust's baby? I know someone that's high up in the company created it and has talked about how much the game means to them. Probably hard to justify spending on it though as a public company with shareholders expecting higher returns.

If it he truly loves it, he needs to set it free...

What would make more sense is selling it to himself and starting it back up again then selling it to a 3rd party.

 Alpharius wrote:
Is CMON taking any heat over this in the ANKH comments section?

Some discussion in Marvel United, thought not more than here, BGG, or Reddit.

I missed this part from Keith Lane: "CMON just announced on April 2 and April 3 that TWO of their independent directors, both of whom were on the audit committee, resigned."

frch0603 : "This is not an internal audit, it is an audit by an external auditor, they would not suspend their stock and issue a going concern report by themselves. The 455k loss you reference was part of 2019 reportings, not 2018. 2018 saw CMON lose 41% of profit per the article you linked. This is definitely an issue that needs immediate addressing. The auditors would have given them a chance to explain, clarify, rectify any problems before taking such actions."

Wow... they have seven still unfulfilled kickstarters at the moment? I know that is basically their business model (introduce through crowdfunding, sell through stores later) but that seems like alot. Were most/some/all of them delayed even before Covid? I don't have any finance background so can't comment on the particulars of that but, as someone who fancies himself a gaming consumer advocate, just reading this thread sounds worriesome. The only thing that could make it worse would be if the same people involved had a history of starting some sort of online store or company and leaving customers high and dry with no notice...

 warboss wrote:
Wow... they have seven still unfulfilled kickstarters at the moment? I know that is basically their business model (introduce through crowdfunding, sell through stores later) but that seems like alot. Were most/some/all of them delayed even before Covid? I don't have any finance background so can't comment on the particulars of that but, as someone who fancies himself a gaming consumer advocate, just reading this thread sounds worriesome. The only thing that could make it worse would be if the same people involved had a history of starting some sort of online store or company and leaving customers high and dry with no notice...

I see what you did there...

...and it is not a comforting reminder!

Though there would possibly be more, and greater, ramifications if history repeated itself here.

So, I’m no Daniel Jackson, but it bothers me that they have an Egyptian Sphinx explicitly named the Androsphinx, but she’s a she, and also likes to tell (Greek?) riddles.

I just hope we don’t have to answer the riddle “What has 0 of your dollars in the morning, 100 of your dollars plus shipping at noon, and no money or product at night time?”

Is it time to contact my credit card company and ask them to get the refund started?

 Theophony wrote:
Is it time to contact my credit card company and ask them to get the refund started?

For what KSer?

Most likely no unless its been a recent KSer an then you might be in the window to get a refund from CMoN themselves.

Most of their stuff is supposed to fullfil this year and 2 are in progress I believe (TIme Machine finally started up again and people in US and Canada are getting their things). I'm still of the mind if they have issues they won't go under but get bought be someone, other game company or investment firm, and operate as noraml. CMoN is a big company in a tiny market and I'm sure there would be interest in them.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:So, I’m no Daniel Jackson, but it bothers me that they have an Egyptian Sphinx explicitly named the Androsphinx, but she’s a she, and also likes to tell (Greek?) riddles.

Modern gender theory expressed as a game mechanic social construct? Or more likely just ignorance of the etymology/mythology.

Theophony wrote:Is it time to contact my credit card company and ask them to get the refund started?

Only if you want to create the situation you're dreading. You won't get the money back from them directly... ever. At best, assuming you're inside the window and restrictions that your CC company may or may not have regarding crowdfunding, you'll just be contributing a snowball to the avalanche that is cutting off yet another source of funding that they may need to fulfill the pledges as the CC company tries to get it out of other people's purchases/transactions with them for current product. Unless you're fast approaching a hard cut off to protect yourself AND the project is significantly late even before Covid, I wouldn't personally... and I'm a glass half empty/who the feth drank my water?!? pessimist.

 warboss wrote:

BobtheInquisitor wrote:So, I’m no Daniel Jackson, but it bothers me that they have an Egyptian Sphinx explicitly named the Androsphinx, but she’s a she, and also likes to tell (Greek?) riddles.

Modern gender theory expressed as a game mechanic social construct? Or more likely just ignorance of the etymology/mythology.

I mean, I knew it wasn’t going to be thematically accurate when I saw the wings, but Adrian Smith going to Adrian Smith, and the monster was too cool not to want. Adding the Andro prefix when “Sphinx” worked just fine, and then going out of their way to mention riddles...it’s just such a self-own of ignorance. Like, I’d be fine with it if I thought they did it on purpose to demonstrate their unique and coherent spin on a mythological setting and not a campaign built on “finally, Egyptian mythology plastic miniatures”.

I don’t understand what’s wrong with the sphinx or the references you’re making.