CMON News and Rumours - 2024 Annual Results

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**warboss**

AduroT wrote:
I don’t understand what’s wrong with the sphinx or the references you’re making.

I'm just going off of what Inquisitor Bob 's post above said and didn't watch the videos nor read the updates but the type of sphinx that asks riddles in classical mythology is the Greek female version whereas this one is obviously the Egyptian male version. That's just a guess on my part though.

**BobtheInquisitor**

AduroT wrote:
I don’t understand what’s wrong with the sphinx or the references you’re making.

Just an embarrassing mistake on CMON’s part. Andro means “man”. Androsphinx means Mansphinx. According to the blurb in the latest update, Mansphinx is a she, and also the Greek type of Sphinx instead of the Egyptian kind, about as similar as either Sphinx is to the Lammasu, the “Babylonian Sphinx” as some call it. It would be like making a gothic horror game and then having Dracula’s vampires hop everywhere stealing chi from Buddhists.

I mean, if this were a different company, like Kingdom Death or On the Lamb, I would think they were making a cheeky statement. CMON doesn’t pay that much attention to detail and makes minis that are a different kind of cheeky, so I guess we’re just lucky the Mansphinx doesn’t have pasties and a big, ol’ thong booty.

**Monkeysloth**

Guess it's a D&D monster that's a male sphinx only based off what google tells me. Andro is a prefix meaning male from greek according to Wiktionary. Though it also means human as it's the andro in android.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/andro-

So bob is pointing out it's a female sphinx with a male prefix, though could be human prefix too and not furry enough for him. I guess in D&D the males don't do riddles thus the annoyance. I can't find anything online with cursory searches saying Androsphixs were anything in actual Greek or Egyptian mythology.

**warboss**

It's admittedly nitpicking but both Bob and I are trekkies so...

**highlord tamburlaine**

Do you guys not remember "Kotahi" the Monkey King in Rising Sun?

It's not like CMON hasn't made some strange slips ups before...

**BobtheInquisitor**

highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Do you guys not remember "Kotahi" the Monkey King in Rising Sun?

It's not like CMON hasn't made some strange slips ups before...

Pretty sure I cringed then, too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I seem to recall a mod-intensive digression about Orientalism in the Rising Sun thread. Comparatively, this is just small potatoes.

**Monkeysloth**

Honestly I think Kotahi is pretty cool. I can understand the annoyance for this the sphinx but a fake Wikipedia page causing a character is pretty sweet.

**PsychoticStorm**

Fake wikipedia page?

**Tim the Biovore**

PsychoticStorm wrote:
Fake wikipedia page?

Young bloke in New Zealand edited the Wikipedia page for Japanese mythological creatures to include his mate Kotahi as "a spirit monkey that is very hairy and get engulfed in rage". Despite being a dead link, it was somehow picked up by someone at CMON as a genuine entry and Kotahi the monkey spirit was drawn up and added to the Kickstarter.

Wasn't picked up until a year later when someone tried to dig up just what it was supposed to be, since nothing of that name exists in Japanese folklore. Gets in contact with the guy, confirms it was a prank, passes that on to CMON who admit they fell for it, and sent a copy of the game and the exclusives to both Kotahi and his mate.

**PsychoticStorm**

LOL fair, fair.

**MonkeyBallistic**

Tim the Biovore wrote:
PsychoticStorm wrote:
Fake wikipedia page?

Young bloke in New Zealand edited the Wikipedia page for Japanese mythological creatures to include his mate Kotahi as "a spirit monkey that is very hairy and get engulfed in rage". Despite being a dead link, it was somehow picked up by someone at CMON as a genuine entry and Kotahi the monkey spirit was drawn up and added to the Kickstarter.

Wasn't picked up until a year later when someone tried to dig up just what it was supposed to be, since nothing of that name exists in Japanese folklore. Gets in contact with the guy, confirms it was a prank, passes that on to CMON who admit they fell for it, and sent a copy of the game and the exclusives to both Kotahi and his mate.

It’s pretty sad when the research for a game supposedly based on a real world mythology, begins and ends with searching Wikipedia.

**ced1106**

Tim the Biovore wrote:
Wasn't picked up until a year later when someone tried to dig up just what it was supposed to be, since nothing of that name exists in Japanese folklore. Gets in contact with the guy, confirms it was a prank, passes that on to CMON who admit they fell for it, and sent a copy of the game and the exclusives to both Kotahi and his mate.

That was hilarious. IIRC, one of the provinces (?) on the map was named after a city, not a province. Sorta like saying Arizona, Utah, and Las Vegas.

Maybe CMON's research team consists of that guy who makes t-shirts with American words on them for foreign markets.

Kotahi https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1924167/what-ktahi

**Monkeysloth**

Three areas are modern day cities. Nagato, Edo and Kyoto. Nagato was the old name a province where I lived for a bit, now called Yamaguchi. I'm not aware of there ever being an Edo or Kyoto province but I haven't really read up on Japanese history for years and they did change names/size several times so it's possible. I did some quick googling as I was curious but didn't see anything.

However there is a Kyoto prefecture which is the modern version of the province (which are no longer used).

So I'd say it looks like they got 2 wrong but they're also easily argued as being important enough to make their own areas of the board as when the game was set Edo was the government capital and Kyoto was the spiritual one. I could see how that would be purposefully done.

**madzerker**

I remember on the Blood Rage map they made one of the regions named Angrboda. She was the jotun hag that Loki had his 3 kids with, Hel, Fenris and the World Serpent. I thought that was a weird thing to name the region that.

**Monkeysloth**

Blood rage though is less trying to represent somewhere real though correct?

**Alpharius**

Yes, that is correct!

And having some Norse places probably fits OK in that theme too.

**BobtheInquisitor**

The new expansion looks pretty sweet. Horus and Set are especially badass looking. I would have preferred ibis-headed Thoth, but can live with the mini as is. Of course, I don’t trust CMON enough to throw money at them now, so hopefully the expansion makes it to retail.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have an overwhelming urge to watch some Stargate SG1.

**Monkeysloth**

I really like this new add on set, think the models are better then the core. The KSer exclusve got and fighters are also really cool. It's looking like we won't get multiple poses though which is sad.

**Tim the Biovore**

I was anticipating a Dynasty Invasion sized expansion, but it's even bigger than I expected. Definitely second that these are better sculpts than the core five (not that I have a problem with any of those, though Isis is a bit awkward with so much strapped on her arms). Set is a stand out, which is particularly nice because I'd been hoping he'd appear.

All the more reason to hope CMON don't go under in the meantime

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Funds are not coming in fast (despite the number of backer being high)

the world situation, warnings about CMONs finances, lots of outstanding projects (and maybe some awkwardness at billing this as 'Egyptian' but having their own take on a lot of stuff rather than going down the traditional egyptina route) have all meant lots of $1 pledges

this big expansions is intended to get some more commitment & cash out of people now (without quite admitting there is a problem like they had to do with Trudvang)

**Gallahad**

That expansion does look very good. I'm still holding strong and waiting for retail (with a $1 pledge just in case). That big expansion will make it to retail (my guess).
The sculpts for this are all so cool, but they look very time consuming to paint with so much detail and doodads everywhere. Many of them definitely look like figurines rather than miniatures, if that makes sense (very static poses), which is what puts me off many of the core box pieces.

**Boss Salvage**

Conversely, I'm both thrilled at the new expansion and continue to be all in. Maybe I'm just asking to be burned, but frankly the numbers involved are still pretty low even at $150 + shipping

**Tim the Biovore**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
this big expansions is intended to get some more commitment & cash out of people now (without quite admitting there is a problem like they had to do with Trudvang)

Mm, definitely feels that way. Wonder if all five were always intended to be one expansion, or if some were planned stretch goals that they had to scuttle now that they know it won't perform as well?

Certainly can't blame the $1 pledges for playing it safe. I'm in it because I'm a sucker for completing sets, and figure this will probably be my last Kickstarter anyway, so I'd like to see it as complete as possible, but there's definitely quite a lot working against it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gallahad wrote:
That big expansion will make it to retail (my guess).

If the core game makes it, this will too (other than the plastic cat tokens)

**Mr Morden**

Ohh that Pantheon expansion and Bastet is very nice....might have to pitch in.

Nice to see they have Set as Chaos not Evil

**Alpharius**

Boss Salvage wrote:
Conversely, I'm both thrilled at the new expansion and continue to be all in. Maybe I'm just asking to be burned, but frankly the numbers involved are still pretty low even at $150 + shipping

I Want To Believe™, but I also can't really see myself (potentially) rolling down my window and (possibly) letting $150+ just fly away...

And I was REALLY looking forward to this one too!

**highlord tamburlaine**

Horus is surprisingly the stand out for me. I would've assumed Set would've been. I think it's the pose. My same issue with Anubis- both of them awkwardly leaning on stuff instead of just standing around looking like bad dudes.

I probably hold out unless they have a super impressive Sobek. That'll be my downfall...

**ZergSmasher**

I've never backed a Kickstarter of any kind before, but this one has me sorely tempted as I love ancient mythology stuff, especially Egyptian.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I hope the plastic obelisks will be widely available. Between those and the temple tokens, I’ll finally be able to convert a fleet of Ha’tak* for BFG/DFC.

*The Stargate ships, not to be confused with Hatach, the biblical eunuch.

**ced1106**

Interesting comment on BGG by Mark C. Believe him or not.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2405083/cmon-trading-suspended/page/12

I took a look at their filings, and here are my thoughts/comments, with attempts to simplify this for people with little or no knowledge of accounting.

Revenue had been growing dramatically up through 2017
2017 - $30 million
2018 - $28 million
2019 - $25 million (very approx and is based on their last report (unaudited) of $19 million through Q3, annualized)

Long term assets have trended up, which includes the value they put on their IP (intellectual property). One could reasonably conclude that a significant portion of the company's value/equity is sitting on the balance sheet, reflected the book value of it's game development and assets purchased to support them. The question arises, is that value reasonable?

If they are keeping the costs of earlier games on their books as intangible assets, an investor would expect those to have revenue from the rights/reprints that is at least as much as the annual amortization. I.E. total revenue should have current year titles' revenue, plus a component on existing IP that covers or exceeds the amortization.

As of Y/E (Year-end) 2018, they reported intangibles of $13 mil, plus a further $12 mil of physical assets (property, plant, equipment) for a total of $25mil. Doing a little guesswork, they recorded $1.6 amort and $1.7 depr through Qtr3 of 2019. That implies a useful life of the IP of approx 6 years, and slightly less for physical assets, which I'm guessing are a mix of various useful life assets.

So back to the question, are those values reasonable? If they are, their business model works. If they're not, it blows up and they eventually run out of money. For high growth companies, they answer is sometimes yes, then no. Which is to say, while they're growing, the model looks reasonable, lenders or financiers will give them cash, etc.. If sales flatten or drop, the values they held on the balance sheet don't produce enough to cover ongoing operations.

I don't know the details here, but I find the audit issues very concerning, and personally wouldn't front them money on a kickstarter unless I was doing so as a show of support rather than a game purchase. Be interesting to check back on this over the coming months.

This may have been linked earlier, but here's an article that discusses the issues, with reference to the company's response:
https://techraptor.net/tabletop/news/cmon-audit-spells-potential-trouble-for-tabletop-publisher
Either way, good luck to all the backers.

In the linked article, some auditor and accountant comments:

Metroid 1402 : Apr 13

As an auditor (not CMON's), I can speak to this a bit. What they said in their explanation makes sense, but it's still cause for concern. Like what they said, it's a going concern when their current assets can't cover their current liabilities. Current assets include: cash, accounts receivable, and inventory (among others). What that means is that their obligations are greater than their cash, money owed to them, and their stock of inventory, all combined, is. So even when kickstarters start actually giving them cash, it won't change their current asset ratio because it will just reduce their accounts receivable. In fact, once they start shipping out the products, it won't help their current assets out at all. They'll reduce their liabilities, and increase their revenue (which is not the same as cash). It may improve their retained earnings, but the company will still be poor in terms of current assets.

My guess, and this is just a guess, is that a lot of their money is going to their molds, which would be considered a fixed asset (not a current asset). If that's the case, then they're losing money on the first printings and would only be making money on subsequent printings.

Also, to Phil--prepaids don't effect the balance sheet at all. You're simply reducing cash and increasing prepaids, both of which are assets on the balance sheet.

Stephen Ogrady : Apr 11

Not quite Phil. Red is in Income Statements, not Balance sheets unless Assets are less than Debt plus equity. The issue here is likely that a vendor (such as Asmodee) decided they wanted their money up front for their distribution business activities because they were not getting paid timely, ending up as prepaid expense asset not realizeable until a future period. This could be an indication of deeper cash crisis, which may or may not be manageable.

I would not conclude the company could shut down from this small bit of information, as the cash crisis would have to be severe...like running out completely with no means of attaining more. And this next kickstarter will inject about $3-4M, so some issues may play out to stabilize the (presumably) crisis. The real key to CMON future is cost containment and stringent project management.

I share these viewpoints as a retired accountant and previous CFO.

Myself, I'm always ambivalent on a company's self-reported intangible assets, not that they're avoidable when investing, particularly with tech stocks. Given CMON"s "fire and forget" model, I can't see their average IP lasting as long as six years. Six years is one less year for Zombicide: Black Plague, and six years ago Arcadia Quest was published. But Masmorra, The Others, Rum and Bones 2nd, Massive Darkness, Godfather, Wrath of Kings, World of Smog, and their direct-to-retail titles, I can't see lasting 1-4 years longer. (Despite all hope, Wrath of Kings is no longer supported and can be found at clearance prices on Miniature Market. Rise of Moloch was not released retail and I still have to paint my set because the miniatures are awesome. I want a copy of Wacky Racers.)

Still, while $150 might be hard to commit, $1 isn't. Academic discussion is interesting and educational. Waiting for the PM still gives CMON a few months to provide an explanation to their backers.

**Gallahad**

CMON is likely to lose at least roughly two months worth of retail sales due to lockdown. If you already owe people a lot, that can be pretty destabilizing.
It is worth noting that CMON is doing their accounting as though they owe KS backers something... Which they don't in some technical sense because you're funding a project with zero protection, not buying something.