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I'm in for that Dwarf expansion - and the paint jobs on them?

WOW!

I like the halos, but they're pretty weird. I would be nice if they were optional/detachable.

So far, the daily unlocks aren't kickstarter exclusive. And the addons sure aren't.

Honestly, it's better to check it at the end of the campaign. Following it daily isn't that exciting nor hyping, surprisingly enough.

Makes me think it's way better to wait for the product to hit retail. What is kickstarter exclusive is not astounding - some good enough, some "meh"...and like a youtuber said, you don't really need all that extra plastic to play, in the end.

ecurtz wrote:
I like the halos, but they're pretty weird. I would be nice if they were optional/detachable.

Nothing that a good modeling knife can't fix. It's just boardgame plastic, in the end...really easy to cut.

Same for the birds people don't like in the comments.

we knew this was going to show up and here she is.

I can't decide if i'm disappointed the snake doesn't look as if it has scales, or relieved that i'm not going to have to try and clean up flash on super tiny pvc scales
(but whatever I prefer her minions to her)

Sarouan wrote:
So far, the daily unlocks aren't kickstarter exclusive. And the addons sure aren't.

I'll just caveat that, just because a CMON expansion (or even retail product, for ASOIAF) isn't KSE, that doesn't mean you'll find it after the KS. IIRC, A $40 Elementals MD box was not KSE, several backers didn't pick it up during the campaign, and CMON decided not to release it to retail because it was too expensive for them to manufacture -- based on the sales in the KS. Some MD2 backers said they couldn't find MD1 expansions retail, and want MD1 content during the MD2 campaign. AFAIK, They won't get it.

The problem is that, with KS, you know how many units to make, and, with retail, you make an estimate. Enough estimates, and you go out of business. Even if you do know how many units you will sell, your printer may have a minimum. That's what happened to the Conan KS. They didn't think they'd make the minimum for some expansions, and these expansions are still OOP. Some new creators using KS print slightly more than the number of units for their backers (printers have various minimum numbers to scale production costs) and only put the remainder, after replacements, on their web store.

BGG'ers often make a big deal about availability, but these are the same people who make up the Cult of the New. If gamers are focused on the newest game, businesses are receiving a clear message that they shouldn't spend their resources keeping in print an older one.

Oh, and I like the nymph boss, although I somehow suspect she'd break into an aria or something.

I know, CMON kickstarters are all about FOMO.

Funny, I thought the background of the nymphs in Massive Darkness would be more about some celestial beings getting corrupted. In fact, that's kinda what they are, especially when you see how their leader looks. Wonder why they bother talking about nature spirits...but well, I guess Massive Darkness isn't there for being coherent with their story.

And beautiful women with snakes...pretty much obvious they're meant to be a reference to Eve meeting the snake before Adam and her get kicked out of Eden. No wonder some christians are a bit irritated with the biblical references while being presented as enemies in the game.

 ced1106 wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
So far, the daily unlocks aren't kickstarter exclusive. And the addons sure aren't.

I'll just caveat that, just because a CMON expansion (or even retail product, for ASOIAF) isn't KSE, that doesn't mean you'll find it after the KS. IIRC, A $40 Elementals MD box was not KSE, several backers didn't pick it up during the campaign, and CMON decided not to release it to retail because it was too expensive for them to manufacture.

Not the best example. https://store.us.asmodee.com/catalogue/massive-darkness-elementals_2000/
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnmd004.html
https://www.amazon.com/Massive-Darkness-Enemy-Box-Elementals/dp/B074VFGL2M/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&hvadid=77996658948085&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=massive+darkness+elementals&qid=1596905664&sr=8-1&tag=mh0b-20

Some of those are sold out but only recently.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 ced1106 wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
So far, the daily unlocks aren't kickstarter exclusive. And the addons sure aren't.

I'll just caveat that, just because a CMON expansion (or even retail product, for ASOIAF) isn't KSE, that doesn't mean you'll find it after the KS. IIRC, A $40 Elementals MD box was not KSE, several backers didn't pick it up during the campaign, and CMON decided not to release it to retail because it was too expensive for them to manufacture.

Not the best example. https://store.us.asmodee.com/catalogue/massive-darkness-elementals_2000/
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnmd004.html
https://www.amazon.com/Massive-Darkness-Enemy-Box-Elementals/dp/B074VFGL2M/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&hvadid=77996658948085&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=massive+darkness+elementals&qid=1596905664&sr=8-1&tag=mh0b-20

Some of those are sold out but only recently.

It's a perfect example. Miniaturemarket has been sold out for 6 plus months on it. I kept track for a long time. CMON replied to my email after the KS shipped and everything else was available in the store to tell me that they were NOT doing another run of the elementals as there wasn't enough demand for it during the KS. I was out of luck. They later realized how much demand there was and made another run. THe amazon ones are at a 40% premium price $56.09 instead of $40 out of gouging. The Asmodee store has been trying to calculate my shipping by zip code for the last 5 minutes, and i'm in the US, so shouldn't be too hard. (suppossedly free shipping by economy unless i want expedited shipping).

So yeah, you can find some time to time, MM picked up about 20 of them 6+ months ago when they bought another huge chunk of CMON warehouse, but they cannot reorder it from asmodee, neither can my other FLGS (MM is in my town and i have a good relationship with a few of their employees).

SMOG Rise of the Moloch had a couple expansions as well. I really wanted the Oriental themed one, not KS exclusive, but it never made it to the stores either.

Ceds argument was that box never went to retail. It did and was available until probably last month as I know. I almost bought it several times from amazon this year for under $40 with free shipping. And it's still purchasable from Azmodee. MM doesn't have it as they don't want to carry it -- not because they cannot.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Ceds argument was that box never went to retail. It did and was available until probably last month as I know. I almost bought it several times from amazon this year for under $40 with free shipping. And it's still purchasable from Azmodee. MM doesn't have it as they don't want to carry it -- not because they cannot.

I've asked and if you look at their daily updates (which I do daily), you can see they order quantities in from CMoN all the time. I have been told by long term employees there and by their customer service team that they can NOT get it. It's not that they won't order it because they don't want to. I have no reason to disbelieve them as they great me by name when I enter their store and when there's not a global pandemic going on I show up and hang out talking with them. I do most of my purchases there and have for many years. When their warehouse was their retail store outlet a few years ago I would stop by 2-3 times a week and was on much better talking terms with their management. Since they have moved the store separate from the warehouse I don't get to see them except when they are at the store for a game (once again not for a while with the pandemic going on and lower capacity for gaming at the shop).

So these may have hit retail, but MM also orders the retailer pledges from CMoN so their initial stock was probably their KS stuff. Any refill they have recieved has been from CMON clearing out their warehouse and not from being able to do a trade order. So yes, you are both right, and both pretty , because retail stores have back channels to get these items, but they are not available for general release. So for them to get more they would have to order it at full Asmodee website cost and then mark it up more, which is not their business model.

Asmodee having them is because they own them. They are not retail, and are them selling from their regular backstock that they hold for conventions. These are the left over dribbles and dreggs of how much they had to order from the factory to have a production run minus the quantity ordered in the KS. It is not still in production and reserved for special events, or when CMON needs to pay rent and sells off a ton of stuff to MM to get an influx of funds.

Amazon sellers are not necessarily stores so much as individuals who will buy multiple KS bundles and resell parts for profit, once their stock is depleted its off to the next KS, no reorders for them.

"Unlocking" the components for the new Monk class - but not including the actual miniature for the Monk?


Fairly lame move.

 Alpharius wrote:
"Unlocking" the components for the new Monk class - but not including the actual miniature for the Monk?


Fairly lame move.

It will be tomorrows unlock, and probably the day after. I assume the monk (like the necromancer stuff) will form some 25$ or so box of stuff to buy singular.

But yea, doing a card for a daily is super lame. But Im not surprised, figured it after they did the 2nd necromancer model. Probably even see some 3rd or more class before this is over.

So far Im underwhelmed by the unlocks/SG's so far, just hasn't been enough of them, guess well see where it ends up by the times its over.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Ceds argument was that box never went to retail.

Oh, I should clarify then. I meant both if it made it to retail, but also that the expansion is easily available.

Sorry, boardgamer here. We're not used to limited supplies of expansions. Before KS, particularly CMON, a boardgame would have, at most, eight or so expansions (eg. Arkham Horror). They would be released over a long period of time, and you could buy them one at a time. It's not like, say, the CCG or GW (?) model where the audience is used to scarcity.

Personally, I've broken the FOMO habit (I'm a min/max'er but I still see backers who presume anything non-KSE will be available retail. That's "available" as in "I can buy it whenever I want at MSRP or lower like any other game I buy", not "have to hunt down a copy and pay even more".

****

Monk reminds me of the Spellweaver class in Gloomhaven. Wonder how many "interesting choices" a Monk has during the game, though.

Speaking of Gloomhaven, I'm seeing some proxy miniatures in MD2 for GH monsters, many hard to find. Some fit better than others. Unless you're playing Random Dungeons, six figures is a good number. Unless mentioned, MD2 comes with 6 mob and 1 leader figure.

 ced1106 wrote:

Personally, I've broken the FOMO habit (I'm a min/max'er but I still see backers who presume anything non-KSE will be available retail. That's "available" as in "I can buy it whenever I want at MSRP or lower like any other game I buy", not "have to hunt down a copy and pay even more".

Well, yeah. CMON games are usually possible to buy at a lower price than the KS once it hits retail. People interested just watch the project from afar, often putting 1$ in the KS so that they don't miss the updates, and they avoid the risks inherent to that while not putting their money upfront in a one or two years pre-order.

Because that's what all CMON Kickstarters are, most of the time. Huge pre-orders.

I understand you want more people to back the KS so that more exclusive "free" stuff is unlocked, so I believe your arguments are a bit turned towards that purpose - what you're doing here is actually a common excuse for FOMO - "pledge in the KS because maybe not all expansions will be available at retail". This is the definition of Fear Of Missing Out.

If you truly break that, then you don't care much to wait. And if I don't find everything once it hits retail...well, maybe I can just play with what I have and not encumber myself with big boxes of bloated content that take a lot of space on my shelves ? In the end, do you really need to have the whole collection to have fun ? I honestly believe the core box and Heavenfall will be safe to assume to see at retail - the rest, well...yeah, they add more monsters and cards, but that's not really impacting the playstyle as much as Heavenfall, I think.

And let's be honest, once it will be available, how many hundred other new games will be there to grab our gamer's attention ?


About Gloomhaven, honestly most of the miniatures are generic dungeon monsters. You have already plenty of sources to find cheap (and non unique !) monsters that are doing the job just fine, without having to wait for Massive Darkness 2 to hit retail. Just take the painted Dungeon and Dragon miniatures on second hand sites and you'll find any monster you ever dreamed about. Moreover, one of the weak points of this KS is actually the miniatures that aren't really that astonishing. It's more trying to justify your pledge to MD2 than really find nice miniatures, IMHO.

The rest of the ASOIAF reveals from CMON Asia Expo

Unsullied Pikemen
Targaryen Hrakkar
Free Folk Attachment Box
Baratheon Champions of the Stag
Baratheon Kingsmen
R'Hllor Lighbringers
House Greyjoy Iron Makers
House Greyloy Heroes

Alot of great Song of Ice and Fire models there - not sure about the unsullied (also look more like spears than pikes) but the rest are really impressive.

Dispaointed that the Dothariki and Lions seem to be duplicates....

Everything looks great except for the weirdly stationary lion on the Hkrakkars. King's Men would make for a great- uh, Greatswords proxy.

Definitely a shame that the Hrakkars are duplicate. Never been bothered by the repeat poses in infantry blocks, but when it's large special units representing wild animals, feels a bit disappointing.

Rest looks great though, very keen for more Baratheons and the Greyjoys are becoming a fast favourite

 Tim the Biovore wrote:
Definitely a shame that the Hrakkars are duplicate. Never been bothered by the repeat poses in infantry blocks, but when it's large special units representing wild animals, feels a bit disappointing.

Rest looks great though, very keen for more Baratheons and the Greyjoys are becoming a fast favourite

Yeah given the likely prices havig four different lions and four different riders seems the least they should have done. I am that same re infantry - not a big deal. At least Dany and her Dragons are all different.

The others would seem to work as stand ins for alot of different armies

4 Horsemen add on - includes a 5 scenario mini campaign

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/massive-darkness-2-hellscape/posts/2918793





Yesterdays reveal the Monk (which actually looks like a Monk)



and at $1.7m - Female Dwarf Paladin

another expansion (KE exclusive)

but will it stop the backsliding that's started, i'm not convinced, too many folk aren't happy with the sculpts, with the hell/heaven theme

(now I can't say i'm thrilled with them all but the chances of resculpts on all but the odd one is pretty much nill, and scrapping the hell & heaven theme isn't going to happen)

since cmon has caved every time a project has hit trouble I fear that they're expecting it again

 ced1106 wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Ceds argument was that box never went to retail.

Oh, I should clarify then. I meant both if it made it to retail, but also that the expansion is easily available.

Sorry, boardgamer here. We're not used to limited supplies of expansions. Before KS, particularly CMON, a boardgame would have, at most, eight or so expansions (eg. Arkham Horror). They would be released over a long period of time, and you could buy them one at a time. It's not like, say, the CCG or GW (?) model where the audience is used to scarcity.

Ya. That make more sense. CMoN only really seams to reprint Bloodrage stuff. But I also think it's their most retail friendly game (cost and expansion size wise).

Also why does like almost everything from ASOIF look so awesome? I generally really dislike knights, armored fighters and so on but just about everything this line release is "oh, I really like that".

ASOIF is coproduced by Dark Sword Miniatures as they hold the miniature licence so I suspect they have quite a heavy say with the design of the models.

And with Riya joining the group, we end the exploration of this part of the Dungeon! We have just completed a full Expansion, the Monks & Necromancers vs The Paragon, which will be available at retail later on, but you are getting it for free!

and with that I suspect we have an expansion that will only briefly show up at retail as the remainder of the minimum production run needed to fulfil the KS (lots of complaints about the necromancers, even more about the paragon and with the monks only getting a tepid reception)

She found all seven dragon balls.

Bit of a mundane expansion, all things considered. I like the Paragon, and the Monks are decent if not perhaps a bit flashy (I dread the comparison alongside the MD1 heroes, the same way Green Horde survivors completely outdo the Black Plague ones). Necromancers are fine sculpts, but their designs are just a bit too anachronistic for me, even in such a non-descript setting.

Good thing it's a freebie then, I guess?

Horsemen are very nice, though. Someone in the comments compared them unfavorably to the Joan of Arc Horsemen, but I think the relatively simple design is actually works much better. I wasn't wowed by the Gates of Hell expansion, but this really did it for me.

Also, I hadn't noticed that the starting gate on the unlock map was clearly alluding to the Monks. Based on the plants and vines, it seems a safe bet to expect Druids to appear in the second unlocked expansion. Very interested in that.

With her deeper connection to Light and Radiance, Gera is a particularly powerful Paladin, able to naturally channel healing properties and regeneration spells into her Aura. When Darkness surrounds her, she is able to bend it into a protective energy for her allies that builds up the more she uses it.


(When not fighting the Darkness, Gera moonlights as an Elmer Fudd double and opera singer)

Day 8 unlocks - this new tile is more forest spirit themed





Upgrade the upgrade pack - MD1 quests updated for MD2 and tiles made compatible - you still require MD 2 to play this does not make MD1 into MD2.

Many of you expressed an interest in being able to play the Quests from the original Massive Darkness with Massive Darkness 2, and the Prologue Campaign does exactly that. We have been studying this since the beginning of the campaign and we’re happy to announce that not only it’s possible but we’re also adding this booklet to the Upgrade Pack for all backers, which brings the Massive Darkness Core Box and Crystal and Lava Quests adapted to be played with Massive Darkness 2.

In tandem with that, we are also changing how the tile elements and the tiles themselves are connected in Massive Darkness 2. Another feedback received was that with the elements (Mob Spawn, Treasure Spawn, Normal Chest, Fountain, etc) being printed on the tiles in MD2, the ability to create your own Quests and layouts is diminished, and it also made the tiles incompatible between MD1 and MD2. Therefore we'll make the tiles on MD2 be illustrated without these elements and feature them as tokens on the Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape Core Box. This change will not not only give you more flexibility when creating your own Quests, but also make compatible all tiles from Massive Darkness 1 and Massive Darkness 2.

And that's not all: We have plans for a few more Upgrade Pack-related Stretch Goals, and the next one is not far!

$1.8m is a new boss

They've added a new stretch goal in a $1750K now too, seems the Horsemen expansion might not have made as much impact as they'd hoped.

Dark Pixies themselves are a bit underwhelming, but perhaps they'll help shift the setting enough to make the core box Shaman look a bit more at home. Might have been wrong about the unlocked gate suggesting Druids too, a sort of "Dark Woods" enemy box is just as likely too now.

Still underwhelmed with most models and the direction (would have preferred more traditional fantasy rather than heaven and hell) but the mission book upgrading MD 1 missions to MD2 has made it much more likely that I will keep my pledge.