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It looks like the VAT is on top of the postage. Reports of $100 on top of $60 for a standard pledged posted to EU (although someone else said around $100 combined for both for the UK).

CMON taking the piss here really as the whole point of EU friendly is that any taxes are included in the pledge and postage costs rather than charged on top of them. Just seems like they have undercharged and trying to make some money back (also shows they have likely not been paying full taxes on previously Kickstarters by quoting manufacturing costs rather than retail costs but would get caught if they tried that one).

Dang guys, I'm sorry to hear that.

That is always a whammy. Hopefully you still have the option of getting a refund. I'm sure CMON didn't take this step lightly.

Shipping to Canada is $50 for a base pledge.
I cancelled my MD2 pledge despite being a huge fan. I can't justify a 50% increase in the cost of the pledge just to get it to me.
Guess I'll spend the money on Marvel: Crisis Protocol instead.
Too bad CMON. You used to have good deals.

here is the UK version of the new rules

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021?fbclid=IwAR1EzzUiAv5vEG9R5RtDq5oZvPNWyoyRk2Q5oUL9j_2z9G7E72blNfoivEI

not very clear, but from my reading since CMON is a business (and not an online marketplace), the consignment of goods coming in at once is over £135 and the goods were sold before this year the old system should apply

(Transactions before 1 January 2021
The new rules will apply to all sales that have a time of supply for VAT purposes of 1 January 2021 or later.

For example, if an order is placed and payment received from the customer on 31 December 2020 then the new rules will not apply, even if dispatch and delivery take place after 1 January 2021. Therefore, for imports the consignment will remain subject to import VAT (unless it is below the Low Value Consignment Relief threshold of £15) and supply VAT should not be charged. For goods already in the UK at the time of supply the VAT liability will remain with the seller rather than the OMP.)

ie CMON should not charge extra as 'import VAT' a customs charge should already be baked in under their EU friendly banner

VAT should definitely be included within the EU / GB friendly flags, that’s the main point of them.

It sounds like if they had released the pledge manager in November and closed at end of December then we wouldn’t have had to pay the costs as the new law only applies to purchases after 1st Jan 2021 (technically purchase isn’t finalised until we complete pledge manager, we have just pledged money towards a project). Purchases before 1st Jan are exempt even if they ship later.

So I got access just now on a $155 pledge

Shipping $30.30
VAT $35.65 (23% correct Irish rate)
VAT on shipping $6.97
Total $72.92

Shipping Estimate for base pledge $42 - $66 Ireland has always been at the high end of the estimates

So their estimates aren’t far off in my case and they have separated out the shipping and VAT charges but it still comes to more or less the same, prices have increased a bit but I’m not going to argue over $9 plus I’ve dropped my plans to get some add ons so that’s $100 I won’t be spending now.

In future I’ll only be backing for $1 and then wait and see what the charges are in the PM, UK and EU backers will have to keep in mind that prices quoted in future KS will incur an additional 20% or more in VAT

 DaveC wrote:

In future I’ll only be backing for $1 and then wait and see what the charges are in the PM, UK and EU backers will have to keep in mind that prices quoted in future KS will incur an additional 20% or more in VAT

Indeed, that sounds like the right approach.

It was always dubious their announced prices weren't correct for the turmoil after Brexit. Now, looks like the axe is coming. That's a good thing, IMHO - CMON will be forced to be crystal clear for the next projects after this backlash, so that they don't have this kind of situation again.

To be honest, the american market is still the target here. I wouldn't be surprised if CMON just stop adressing these kickstarters to the EU and UK markets, or at least limit them.

Sarouan wrote:


To be honest, the american market is still the target here. I wouldn't be surprised if CMON just stop adressing these kickstarters to the EU and UK markets, or at least limit them.

I had a look at the MD2 community figures of 21,763 backers 8,774 are US (40%), UK is 1313 (6%) the EU as a whole isn’t listed but the top 6 EU countries account for 5724 backers (26%). Of the rest Canada has 1485 (6%) Australia 886 (4%) China has a separate system so isn’t listed. If the UK and EU accounts for about a third of their backers and non US is 60% in total I don’t CMON can afford to focus just on the US market. I think the 2 MoTU KS (CMON and Archon) will give a good indication of what a solely US or EU focused KS looks and funds like.

I wonder if they and other KS projects will be able to use the regional 'shipping' function on KS to show the vat add on in the future

assuming KS doesn't make a tool specifically for it ?

well this is now live

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/cmon-presents-the-animation-collection

and funded, though it's moving really slowly for a CMON project,

(but the appeal to minis buyers isn't there unlike most)

and VAT is addressed properly now

>>> Note that, in compliance to the EU and UK laws, VAT will also be charged on the pledge manager system for EU and UK backers. At this time we cannot estimate the cost as the charges vary from country to country and it is based on the price of the order plus the actual shipping costs (which can only be properly determined in the system). However, the VAT charges will be fully disclosed on the system to be examined. European countries that are not part of the European Union or UK will not be charged VAT.



Note: an unpainted version of the scooby doo game will go to retail (so potentially cheaper than the painted ks version),

the other two will be painted only

Seems like an opportunity for CMON to experiment with pre-paints. Both for checking the popularity, and for checking how well their supplier can make them.

Well, there are no SG's, and only daily unlocks for a 7-day campaign, so funding doesn't matter. Pledge you $1 and find out the shipping prices in the PM.

CMON's already had prepaints with their Wacky Racers deluxe edition, so, thankfully, backers won't be the guinea pigs. I've found deluxe components are a yellow flag -- you're paying more money, but don't know the quality you're getting. Some of the Stonemaier Game Realistic Tokens were painted badly, and the Upgrade Your Game coins don't have the weathering wash I prefer on metal coins.

At least we won't be screwed over by the creator like too many have done with the IP. I have the CMON Wacky Racers (and Night of the Living Dead) games, and the miniatures look great. Who want's to buy an unloved Cryptozoic Walking Dead pledge???

fwiw, I did check figure prices on Amazon. $5 to $7 per figure, and some offers look like counterfeits or unpopular styles. Unfortunately, I'm a fan of some of the iconic villains in Scooby-Doo, and they're hard to collect -- and will be usable in the Mystery Mansion game. Two games that I'll never get around to playing with these figures!

Well, they are already past 150.000 $ in funds. I think the target number they hope to achieve is also smaller than other of their projects. Yet the power of CMON's fanboyism is still strong !

Going prepainted was obvious to me. Those are boardgames with very specific characters who have their emblematic colors. Also, it has a higher perceived value if they are already painted - helps boosting the price of board games that aren't that complicated or don't have a lot of replay value anyway.

Like I thought, characters like Beastboy were intended to be revealed as stretch goals or whatever artificial Hype CMON always tries to build. Again, to give a higher perceived value to the backers as they can say "wow the number of characters are almost double than the original set !". Except that the first picture was never to be the original set, since the stretch goals were already planified that way before the campaign. All artificial, from the beginning to the end.

> Like I thought, characters like Beastboy were intended to be revealed as stretch goals or whatever artificial Hype CMON always tries to build.

Conventional boardgames are 2-4 players, so why bother raising the price with more mini's in the box and (gasp) game development?

In the past, KS has included retail expansions as SG's -- er, DU's -- so I'm gonna guess BB was left out of the base game to snag families into buying the expansion. I'm sure DC's marketing department has the numbers of which team members are the most popular among which demographics.

Up past $250,000. averaging $100 per backer. One-of-each and Scooby pledges most popular. That's a lot of copies of Mystery Mansion...

 ced1106 wrote:

Conventional boardgames are 2-4 players, so why bother raising the price with more mini's in the box and (gasp) game development?

These are daily stretch goals - unlocked with everyday with no link to the number of backers or the money reached. So everything was planned for it from the beginning, including game development.

It's not raising the price, it's maintaining an illusion backers get more as the campaign keeps growing, so that they feel like they get more value than what they thought at the start. While it was always intended to end that big in the end.

Completely and utterly artificial, but sure you're free to fall for these tricks again and again, while all signs are completely obvious to see in the open.

> These are daily stretch goals - unlocked with everyday with no link to the number of backers or the money reached. So everything was planned for it from the beginning, including game development.

No. I'm saying that game development for five players costs additional money than for four players. Also, the cost of a retail unit for five players is higher than for four. Conventional boardgame sales is to provide base game product at the lowest -- or at least competitive -- price, saving additional content for expansions. That's why everyone balks at buying GH, despite the amount of content it has.

I'm as cynical as you are, but please understand what I'm saying.

 ced1106 wrote:

No. I'm saying that game development for five players costs additional money than for four players. Also, the cost of a retail unit for five players is higher than for four.

Yes, I understand that. That's why I'm saying that cost was already included in CMON's plans, otherwise they wouldn't have put Beastboy like this (he's not Kickstarter Exclusive). Some boxes were clearly intended to be like this for retail as well. It's just the picture leads people to believe the opposite, and I think it was made on purpose to build that artificial Hype.

So how do you ask for refunds?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
So how do you ask for refunds?

Fill in the form and select refund

https://support.cmon.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=146103

They are giving 100% refunds for EU backers but it’s not being advertised.

I ended up applying for a full refund but haven’t heard back yet I’d say they have a good few to process.

I asked for a refund last Monday and still have yet to hear anything besides a confirmation of my request being received.

If you missed out on HATE in the messy old games KS/M thing it looks like CMON fond some more games, expansions and extras and sold them to miniature market

https://www.miniaturemarket.com/landing?p=hate-board-game

so if you're in the uSA you're in luck

I think I know what I’ll be splurging on on Black Friday 2022.

I have to say, HATE is a blast to play. I went all in on that crazy vault KS, but playing the campaign is great. I tend to lose a lot, but still fun to bring on to the table.

And yes, those scenery packs definitely add to the feel.

Just thinking about what was left over via the time machine kser to see what else they might have sold to MM. Hate old sold around 150 of it's 770 special bundles on the KSer main page -- I doubt many bought it in the PM. Green Horde only sold a little over half it's bundles but I know a lot of people wanted some of the SG stuff but there were plenty left over from what remember of lots of things for that game.

There was plenty of KS exclusive things left from other Zombiecide games and Massive Darkness 1.

I think the only ones that sold out were Bloodrage, rising sun and a few of the older games that have a small, but strong, fanbase.

Also I just noticed that the Core box includes all the SG and is cheaper then if you bought it via the OG KSer or Timemachine.

Oh dang. The big box for a hundo is a great deal. Lots of cool sculpts. The big giant guys are real standouts imo. I've painted a couple and they've been really fun and rewarding to paint.

Anyone ordered from MM in EU?

Didn't get in the KS but I love the Hate sculpts, plus MM has some great discounts (more so with usd/eur getting destroyed... probably even compensates the shipping).

If you're wondering what expansion is the best to grab, I can recommend the Mother Prophecy, if you're looking for some really nice large figure models.

I never bought the Sarassa or Vore Nash expansions, but I don't feel compelled to do so here to be honest.

Anybody got a reply from Cmon regarding their massive darkness pledge cancellation?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Anybody got a reply from Cmon regarding their massive darkness pledge cancellation?

Yes applied on January 17th replied on 2nd February cancelled yesterday to be refunded within 2 weeks. Expect a little over 2 weeks for a response.

Thanks.