Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mysterio wrote:
Shows how ridiculous Knights are in 40K 'scale' - sure, they look good, but they're gooftastic for gaming with!

It's my problem with ALL of the big kits in 40K right now. They are totally cool, for the most part, but when you're fielding them, you're basically committing to a board that isn't terribly friendly to infantry and the like. If your board has narrow alleys, multiple level buildings, structures with ceilings and stairs and overhangs, then all of that is just impassable to the Knights and all the huge kits. I feel like the preponderance of big kits like knights has, by default, forced the dense terrain boards that seem so tactically interesting to me into Necromunda/Zone Mortalis/Kill Team regions.

Quote:"It's my problem with ALL of the big kits in 40K right now. They are totally cool, for the most part, but when you're fielding them, you're basically committing to a board that isn't terribly friendly to infantry and the like. If your board has narrow alleys, multiple level buildings, structures with ceilings and stairs and overhangs, then all of that is just impassable to the Knights and all the huge kits. I feel like the preponderance of big kits like knights has, by default, forced the dense terrain boards that seem so tactically interesting to me into Necromunda/Zone Mortalis/Kill Team regions. "

Yes but isn't that what real warfare is like? I know 40K is only a game but in the real world no armor commander likes to drive his tanks and other assets into build up areas. That is just no tank country. Why should it be different in 40K?

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!!

ordoteutonicus wrote:
Quote:"It's my problem with ALL of the big kits in 40K right now. They are totally cool, for the most part, but when you're fielding them, you're basically committing to a board that isn't terribly friendly to infantry and the like. If your board has narrow alleys, multiple level buildings, structures with ceilings and stairs and overhangs, then all of that is just impassable to the Knights and all the huge kits. I feel like the preponderance of big kits like knights has, by default, forced the dense terrain boards that seem so tactically interesting to me into Necromunda/Zone Mortalis/Kill Team regions. "

Yes but isn't that what real warfare is like? I know 40K is only a game but in the real world no armor commander likes to drive his tanks and other assets into build up areas. That is just no tank country. Why should it be different in 40K?

Because 40k is a game that needs to be playable and enjoyable? I'll never understand the "but in real wars..." argument as it has almost no place in 40k.

Da Butcha wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
Shows how ridiculous Knights are in 40K 'scale' - sure, they look good, but they're gooftastic for gaming with!

It's my problem with ALL of the big kits in 40K right now. They are totally cool, for the most part, but when you're fielding them, you're basically committing to a board that isn't terribly friendly to infantry and the like. If your board has narrow alleys, multiple level buildings, structures with ceilings and stairs and overhangs, then all of that is just impassable to the Knights and all the huge kits. I feel like the preponderance of big kits like knights has, by default, forced the dense terrain boards that seem so tactically interesting to me into Necromunda/Zone Mortalis/Kill Team regions.

Why terrain has to be one or the other? Why not mix of both. Have some areas impassable for knights, others passable. That's how terrain tends to work in reality.

That's the balance though, you absolutely SHOULD have areas of the board that can't be reached by anything larger than a Dreadnought, these should have LoS blocking pieces too, so that infantry CAN sneak up and get their Meltas etc into range of any big unit careless enough to stand with their back to a building.

Especially now that heavy weapons can move and fire (albeit with a -1), a Devastator Squad with Multi-Meltas could pop around a corner and really ruin someone's day.

Likewise there should be some open areas when big guns can punish anything that steps into it.

Rik

What the last two posters said.

Having areas of the board impassable to some units is just as important as having a piece or two that you hide a Landraider behind.

The mat looks like it just paper. Possibly like the one in First Strike.

Gundor2 wrote:
The mat looks like it just paper. Possibly like the one in First Strike.

What mat? It's the Sector Imperialis board :/

**Oh it's a mat in the trailer...

 Kirasu wrote:
Because 40k is a game that needs to be playable and enjoyable? I'll never understand the "but in real wars..." argument as it has almost no place in 40k.

It's like saying laws of physics or common sense have no place in 40k. Verisimilitude is kinda good, you know?

 Togusa wrote:
The Shrine of the Aquila isn't out, it's just out of stock. I wonder why they decided to keep that kit?

I didn't see anyone answer this, but likely the reason why is that the Shrine of the Aquila came out quite a bit later compared to the other stuff.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
The Shrine of the Aquila isn't out, it's just out of stock. I wonder why they decided to keep that kit?

I didn't see anyone answer this, but likely the reason why is that the Shrine of the Aquila came out quite a bit later compared to the other stuff.

Might be as simple as GW upscaling their models so much that the 3" city fight tiles aren't any good anymore. The Mechanicus buildings are, I believe, 5" per story and better suited for the humongous models GW likes so much. The Shrine of the Aquila would fit right in, being built from few, large tiles.

My thinking with big kits is that it's cool there are places they can't go, but that they ought to be able to interact with terrain. A knight armed with a reaper chainsword or thunderstrike gauntlet should be able to make its way through a ruin, though the ruin will not come out of the experience well.

I basically think you should be able to attack terrain like you can everything else. Let infantry disembark as if their transport had been destroyed. Make it difficult to destroy, but possible.

Chiming in with my 2 cents on the terrain:

I've got to say I really appreciate that it appears there's very little in terms of windows, gaps, etc. at ground-level. These kits look like they will do a really good job blocking LOS for the majority of models in the game which was a lot harder to do well with the older kits.

I may have to get a couple of these to add to my city board.

Also...I should really get to painting my city board.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
What the last two posters said.

Having areas of the board impassable to some units is just as important as having a piece or two that you hide a Landraider behind.

It's very easy to say. It's a little harder to do on a 6x4 board at the kind of game sizes GW evidently wants to be the standard without essentially having the terrain define how the game is going to play out before a single model hits the table.

I mean, OK, look at that example from the WD - take away one army of Knights and replace it with an infantry+(ie, mostly infantry, couple of non-superheavy tanks & APCs) Guard army, then try and make a 6x4 board that can both give the Guard player multiple avenues of covered approach to the enemy and at least some objectives, while still providing the Knights sufficient room to approach and engage. You might be able to do it, but it would be glaringly, blindingly obvious from one look at the table exactly where the Guard would have to move and exactly where the Knights would have to move, and the result would be every bit as much down to rolling buckets of dice as a battle on Planet Bowlingball.

If someone's just in it to "forge the narrative", sure, great, they can make an awesome looking table and push some models around on it in the ways the setup permits and have a great time. But it's a bit more of an issue if you want your experience to be a bit more of a "test of wits" scenario where you actually have to make meaningful decisions during play.

For the kind of tables you're talking about to provide multiple viable tactical approaches for both sides 40K games either need smaller armies, even bigger tables, or many many fewer HUEG units like Knights. The guy you folks are replying to is right, if you want meaningful infantry play these days it's go skirmish or go home.

If nothing else, this thread has given me an idea to work with. I think I'm going to make a couple of big (2'x2') squares that are impassable to anything but infantry. Each side of the table gets one. I think that this would make things a bit more interesting.

I got a bunch of Pegasus stuff about 18 months ago. VERY nice stuff. It's not "supposed" to be for wargaming, but you'd swear it was. Totally durable. The Bridge in particular can actually be used to bridge spans without worrying if a resin vehicle or two will snap it.

My biggest gripe about the Church and industrial building looking stuff is that you need to make your own roof and floors, which really isn't too hard. Especially true if you have access to the right textured plasticard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rik Lightstar wrote:
That's the balance though, you absolutely SHOULD have areas of the board that can't be reached by anything larger than a Dreadnought, these should have LoS blocking pieces too, so that infantry CAN sneak up and get their Meltas etc into range of any big unit careless enough to stand with their back to a building.

Especially now that heavy weapons can move and fire (albeit with a -1), a Devastator Squad with Multi-Meltas could pop around a corner and really ruin someone's day.

Likewise there should be some open areas when big guns can punish anything that steps into it.

Rik

Totally true. I have another thread in 40K General about this. Personally, I like foot bridges and walkways spanning higher levels. Tanks and monsters can't get up there, and even if they did they'd be too wide to cross. Also adds a third dimension to the game.

From the Warhammer Community Killteam article

Designed by the team behind the Sector Mechanicus sets (and 100% compatible with them to boot), these marry the modularity and expandability of these kits with our most detailed vision of the dark and gothic cityscapes of the 41st Millennium yet.



Every single section is exactingly detailed, moulded and designed to the same specifications as our multipart plastic kits, made to characterfully bring to life the world of the 41st Millennium while being flexible enough to build anything you can imagine. Each piece is compatible with every other, allowing you to build anything from low-lying ruins for close-quarters firefights to towering, imposing high-rises with fully detailed interiors.





Of course, looking awesome is one thing – but we know that the true test of these scenery pieces will be how you use them in your games. The new Sector Imperialis range has been designed specifically to work with modern Warhammer 40,000, each piece acting as practical cover for a range of units. You’ll comfortably be able to fit your Redemptor Dreadnoughts, Deff Dreads or any larger units within the new, upscaled buildings, while doorways, flooring sections and balconies are perfect for models with larger bases – whether you’re rappelling in with a squad of Reivers or skittering across walkways with Sicarian Ruststalkers, you’ll have plenty of space to do so.



Whether you’re looking for a practical and tactical way to add cover to your boards (for Kill Team and beyond) or you’re ready to recreate Holy Terra itself on your tabletops, the new Sector Imperialis terrain is for you – and there are even more kits on the way.

Just... glorious!!!

Unff. Just beautiful kits.

And even more to come!
Fantastic!

Gorgeous terrain kits.

Now to determine how badly they're going to hurt my wallet...

Finally terrain well suited for building an Adeptus Arbite Precinct (13) Fortress!

What's that pressure tank from the middle of this picture with the 4 on it?

Interesting catch. Either scratchbuilt or a new kit.

There're some OOP Chaos Cultists from Dark Vengeance on the Sector Imperialis boxes. Does it mean they make a return?

 zedmeister wrote:
What's that pressure tank from the middle of this picture with the 4 on it?

Spoiler:

IIRC OOP Forge World terrain.

Gah, you may be right:

Perfect for AT
A bit lacking in "magnitude" for 40K

No, I don't know what I mean by "magnitude" ... it's conceptual

Good eye, dude.