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 Ahtman wrote:
"Burnham is socially awkward and all logic because of her Vulkan upbringing"

Two...seconds...later...

"Oh Burnham you made a rash decision based on emotion but it was the perfect thing to do and everyone loves you and you're the best thing in Starfleet!"


Repeat that every episode and you just described STD.

Yeah and this would be an incredibly compelling character honestly in a more competently written show. The conflict between someone trying to live up to an ideal image of themselves and having to deal with not always living up to it or hard choices that force them to question if that ideal is even realistic? That's freaking Star Trek right there!

But DIS isn't competently written, and what should make Burnham a good character is instead the thing that makes her an awful character.

Well that was an episode that Almost entirely lacked any Michael. Of course she showed up right at the end to save everyone though.

S3 Ep2 was some solid Trek.

Hints of Voyager, but without any instantly dislikable characters.

I didn't notice any VOY elements, hints or otherwise, but I regard Voyager as one of the more suckier trek shows in the lineup.

Whereas most of the shows had a crap first three seasons then improved, Voyager kept sucking all the way to the dyson factory.

That said, I enjoyed this episode. Even bad trek is preferable to AGOT any day of the week.

Voyager hint in being hurled right into the unknown, and having to get the ship patched up.

More episodes like this, please.

So, is The Orville still a show?


I'll get my coat.......

 chromedog wrote:
I didn't notice any VOY elements, hints or otherwise, but I regard Voyager as one of the more suckier trek shows in the lineup.

Whereas most of the shows had a crap first three seasons then improved, Voyager kept sucking all the way to the dyson factory.

That said, I enjoyed this episode. Even bad trek is preferable to AGOT any day of the week.

Voyager had some solid episodes in each season. It was weak as a whole, but it's not as if every single episode 'sucked'.

Can I give a shout out to Pick TV and the Horror Channel for showing Star Trek on TV every evening?

They had the episode with the borg Hugh on the other day.
Great episode, particularily loved the bit where Jordi says to Guinan "Well maybe you should go and listen, that is what you're good at isn't it?"

I think the best Trek episodes follow that formula;
1. Set up a moral quandry.
2. Senior officers debate the ethics/ sociology/ philosophy relevant to the situation.
3. Something complicates things even further.
4. Arrive at consensus.
5. Solve the problem imperfectly but still allowing hope for future.

 Easy E wrote:
So, is The Orville still a show?


I'll get my coat.......

Not sure if serious but yes albeit streaming only on Hulu now. The next season's filming was cut short due to the pandemic so it is delayed.

 AduroT wrote:
Well that was an episode that Almost entirely lacked any Michael. Of course she showed up right at the end to save everyone though.

Yeah, proper bit of discovery (lowercase D there), talking, moral choices. Not bad until Space Jesus Ex Machina's stupid grinning face appears.

Saru is still totally cool, though!

I mostly enjoyed that episode, but I note that it took an episode that was 95% without Burnham in it for me to finally start learning, after 3 seasons, what most of the other characters names are...

I loved Tilly and Saru spending time together. And Georgieu's big scene was great. - I kinda lowkey love that she basically DOES have the explorer 'spirit' to her that the Federation has, but it's on this sort of completely amoral basis. I sorta want to see her hanging out with Sara Lance from Legends of Tomorrow.

In saying all this good stuff, I still feel like the episode needed to pass through a half dozen more script revisions before it ends up being properly good.

I've been rewatching Battlestar Galactica recently (which, for the Brits, is currently available on Iplayer) and honestly after seeing it like 10 years ago, I'm still going "oh my Bob, this is SO frikking well written, the dialogue, drama, everything."

So, bridge lady with the tech implant on her head (unlike you I still haven’t learned names), wagers on her being infected with that evil AI from the alternate future? They made a Blatantly unsubtle point of showing her acting off.

 AduroT wrote:
So, bridge lady with the tech implant on her head (unlike you I still haven’t learned names), wagers on her being infected with that evil AI from the alternate future? They made a Blatantly unsubtle point of showing her acting off.

Cute redhead? Keyla Detmer - yeah likely.

Blatently unsubtle is pretty normal.....

Possibly.

But it could also be a device to better show the impact of the time travel? I mean, whatever works she’s had done, a fair amount is external. Bang that hard enough, and where bone would break? The metal will bend. Which strikes me as worse?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Compel wrote:
I mostly enjoyed that episode, but I note that it took an episode that was 95% without Burnham in it for me to finally start learning, after 3 seasons, what most of the other characters names are...

I loved Tilly and Saru spending time together. And Georgieu's big scene was great. - I kinda lowkey love that she basically DOES have the explorer 'spirit' to her that the Federation has, but it's on this sort of completely amoral basis. I sorta want to see her hanging out with Sara Lance from Legends of Tomorrow.

In saying all this good stuff, I still feel like the episode needed to pass through a half dozen more script revisions before it ends up being properly good.

I've been rewatching Battlestar Galactica recently (which, for the Brits, is currently available on Iplayer) and honestly after seeing it like 10 years ago, I'm still going "oh my Bob, this is SO frikking well written, the dialogue, drama, everything."

Just want to focus in on your Georgiou comment, because it resonated with me. And it’s a bloody good point.

For most of my encounters with the Mirror Universe, they’ve been moustache twirling campy villains. But Georgiou is starting to serve as a much finer line between the realties. As you said, she’s not immoral, just amoral. She wants to the get the job done, and isn’t at all fussy about the exact means.

Makes me seriously fear a Mirror Picard!

 Vaktathi wrote:
Just finished Lower Decks.

My opinion that it's by far the best thing to come out of Star Trek in years, if not almost a couple decades, remains firm

Haven't caught the new Discovery however, I'll have to get to that at some point.

I have not caught the two recents, but i watched lower decks and i love it.
It did kinda start out as just making jokes about trek and characters within trek. It then started making jokes and poking fun at tropes of trek. I loved how the trial episode was about how the bridge crew are not these perfect little do no wrongs, but have flaws and make mistakes. The best was the last, about the one and done planets of the week and how they where never checked up upon.
I think its going to end up like The Orville. Starting off making a buncha jokes, but stopping a bit later and becoming a Sci-Fi show with humorous elements.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Possibly.

But it could also be a device to better show the impact of the time travel? I mean, whatever works she’s had done, a fair amount is external. Bang that hard enough, and where bone would break? The metal will bend. Which strikes me as worse?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Compel wrote:
I mostly enjoyed that episode, but I note that it took an episode that was 95% without Burnham in it for me to finally start learning, after 3 seasons, what most of the other characters names are...

I loved Tilly and Saru spending time together. And Georgieu's big scene was great. - I kinda lowkey love that she basically DOES have the explorer 'spirit' to her that the Federation has, but it's on this sort of completely amoral basis. I sorta want to see her hanging out with Sara Lance from Legends of Tomorrow.

In saying all this good stuff, I still feel like the episode needed to pass through a half dozen more script revisions before it ends up being properly good.

I've been rewatching Battlestar Galactica recently (which, for the Brits, is currently available on Iplayer) and honestly after seeing it like 10 years ago, I'm still going "oh my Bob, this is SO frikking well written, the dialogue, drama, everything."

Just want to focus in on your Georgiou comment, because it resonated with me. And it’s a bloody good point.

For most of my encounters with the Mirror Universe, they’ve been moustache twirling campy villains. But Georgiou is starting to serve as a much finer line between the realties. As you said, she’s not immoral, just amoral. She wants to the get the job done, and isn’t at all fussy about the exact means.

Makes me seriously fear a Mirror Picard!

A proper Mirror universe series would be a joy to behold (the Enterprise 2 parter was the best thing that show ever did) - but a Picard episode could great be fun too - with both his and 7's counterparts.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Makes me seriously fear a Mirror Picard!

Pffft, don't lie. We all want to see Picard rocking the Riker beard.

Seeing him Rock It? And seeing Picard’s sheer intellect on the amoral leash?

Two very different things!

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Makes me seriously fear a Mirror Picard!

Pffft, don't lie. We all want to see Picard rocking the Riker beard.

He had a pretty good beard in "Future Imperfect."

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Makes me seriously fear a Mirror Picard!

Pffft, don't lie. We all want to see Picard rocking the Riker beard.

He had a pretty good beard in "Future Imperfect."

Why does he look like he's about to teach me the ancient art of Kung Fu?

Welp, starting a watch thru of DS9. Between this thread and a couple locals doing it and talking about it I figured I’d join in since I don’t think I ever saw most of the last season/s.

 AduroT wrote:
Welp, starting a watch thru of DS9. Between this thread and a couple locals doing it and talking about it I figured I’d join in since I don’t think I ever saw most of the last season/s.

Have fun! My very favorite Star Trek show. Definitely some stuff you can skip in that first season though; "Move Along Home" and "If Wishes Were Horses" are just the worst.

Let us know how you're viewing goes; interested in hearing some takes as the you watch along. In my opinion, Seasons 5-6 are some of the very best that Star Trek has to offer.

In defence of Move Along Home?

It’s pretty classic Trek Trope, and helps to illustrate the tech difference between the two quadrants.

Sure, the end result leaves a lot to be desired. But it does have some merits, meagre as they may be.

It's also the first reference to The Dominon isn't it?

It may very well be. Can’t remember if the buff folk with Tula Berry Wine came first?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In defence of Move Along Home?

It’s pretty classic Trek Trope, and helps to illustrate the tech difference between the two quadrants.

Sure, the end result leaves a lot to be desired. But it does have some merits, meagre as they may be.

All good points, I usually don't skip episodes while watching a show for the first time, but if I'm doing a re-watch I'd leave some of them out. Plus I feel like despite the first season, every alien we meet from the Gamma Quadrant later is more or less just another alien; there were plenty of strange, theocratic, or mercantile races in the Alpha and Delta Quadrants. I felt that overall the galaxy has about the same background level of potential for a given species' evolutionary trajectory.

Also, I believe the first Dominion reference came in Season 2, right? (A quick google shows that you are correct, Grotsnik; the first mention was in "Rules of Acquisition." Leave it to a Ferengi episode to hijack the plot progression like that)

A little bit late to the party, but episode 2 of season 3 was actually pretty good. Definitely felt more like a regular Trek episode and was pretty well done in general. Detmer acting weird seemed to be a little heavy-handed but we don't really know where it's going yet so I'll reserve judgement.

And then the last 2 minutes happened. Would it have killed them to have the crew get themselves out of their predicament instead of having Burnham swoop in to save the day? Also, I assume Burnham will now be adding "future expert" to her long list of skills allowing her to show up how useless the rest of the crew are without her?

I think episode 3 might be the make or break one for me. If they can put together a good ensemble episode and maybe start to develop Detmer's storyline a little and not have Burnham arbitrarily save the day it might just encourage me to keep watching.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It may very well be. Can’t remember if the buff folk with Tula Berry Wine came first?

I've recently re-watched all of the seasons and think you're right. The aliens they are dealing with (which I don't think you see again) mention them with an air of fear..

Kroem wrote:Can I give a shout out to Pick TV and the Horror Channel for showing Star Trek on TV every evening?

They had the episode with the borg Hugh on the other day.
Great episode, particularily loved the bit where Jordi says to Guinan "Well maybe you should go and listen, that is what you're good at isn't it?"

I think the best Trek episodes follow that formula;
1. Set up a moral quandry.
2. Senior officers debate the ethics/ sociology/ philosophy relevant to the situation.
3. Something complicates things even further.
4. Arrive at consensus.
5. Solve the problem imperfectly but still allowing hope for future.

Definitely. That's probably what I like least about some of the new films and why they aren't really Star Trek as it was in those series, replace all of the above with "turn on Beastie Boys Sabotage, aliens explode"

 Pacific wrote:

Definitely. That's probably what I like least about some of the new films and why they aren't really Star Trek as it was in those series, replace all of the above with "turn on Beastie Boys Sabotage, aliens explode"

Haha well maybe you're right, sometimes I wish they went one step further though.

Like in the Hugh episode, no one really questions whether there is any merit to the Borg's collectivist society or in TNG: "Symbiosis" no one questions the recitude of condemning the drug pushing Brekkian's to starvation and anarchy by cutting off their trade with the Ornarans.

There is a sort of idealogical certitude that appears sometimes!

There’s also the less than wholesome Trek Trope of the human/alien hybrid always being torn between the two cultures, with the baseline being “hu-mon approach are more corrected”.

Which is why I enjoy Worf so much as a character. He’s Klingon, but signed himself up the Federation. He doesn’t always do as Picard might, but at least it’s an obligation he gets bollocked for, rather than purely cultural.