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Azuza001 wrote:
I always use my land speeder with twin heavy flamer, it used to be good but at this point its just a bit too expensive.

Look at it like this. If you do what your thinking your talking about 3 multimelta shots for 300ish points. Why not do the long fangs with multimeltas outflanking at that cost? You can use the same strat to ignore the -1 to hit.

Honestly i was thinking about this and the hemlock flyers eldar use. My oppent always flys them at -2 to hit forward t1 and ends up blowing valuable stuff away. But he also tends to end up with one of them near a table edge. 4 multimeltas should be able to make a hemlock pay, wouldnt you think?

I see your point. It's a little below 300. It's the speed that got my attention. I also, for some reason, like whirlwinds. And there's a nice stratagem we have now that combines the two.

I would like to think 4 multi-meltas could do something to a hemlock, especially with keen senses.

Northern85Star wrote:
Landspeeders got 10 pts cheauote]per. Still very expensive, but i plan on making three just because turn one 6xheavy flamer sounds fun.. and it’s a unit that has to be dealt with quickly.

Slight problem here... I know battlescribe just got updated so you can do what you're saying but they tend to get things wrong so I am double checking against the Codex quite a bit still. It appears our Landspeeders can't take double heavy flamer, nor double multimelta. We can replace the heavy bolter with a multimelta. Or add another weapon, AC, HF, Typhoon. So you'll only have one heavy flamer.

Unless I am reading it wrong?

 Weazel wrote:
So why is the Wulfen Dread considered terribad? Talking about the Axe&Shield version here.

VenDread
+Smoke launchers
+6+++
+WS2+
-6" move
-No reroll for charges
-No ranged weapon

WulfDread
+8" move
+Rerollable charge
+ 18 pts cheaper (with a SB)
-No smoke
-No FNP
-WS3+

Lack of smoke launchers hurts, but 6+++ is often not very consequential. More speed and a rerollable charge for fewer points doesn't really sound like a terrible deal to me. Sure the nerf to 3++ hurts but am I missing something that makes Wulfen Dread significantly worse than a VenDread or are they just both considered bad now?

Agreed. The main problem is getting the dread into combat. 2" more movement and re-rolling charges does that better then 6+++ (1 wound extra on average) and 1 turn of smoke.

A wulfen dread is much more likely to actually make a turn 2 charge.

 Ordana wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
So why is the Wulfen Dread considered terribad? Talking about the Axe&Shield version here.

VenDread
+Smoke launchers
+6+++
+WS2+
-6" move
-No reroll for charges
-No ranged weapon

WulfDread
+8" move
+Rerollable charge
+ 18 pts cheaper (with a SB)
-No smoke
-No FNP
-WS3+

Lack of smoke launchers hurts, but 6+++ is often not very consequential. More speed and a rerollable charge for fewer points doesn't really sound like a terrible deal to me. Sure the nerf to 3++ hurts but am I missing something that makes Wulfen Dread significantly worse than a VenDread or are they just both considered bad now?

Agreed. The main problem is getting the dread into combat. 2" more movement and re-rolling charges does that better then 6+++ (1 wound extra on average) and 1 turn of smoke.

A wulfen dread is much more likely to actually make a turn 2 charge.

I also agree. It's also a much more viable dreadnought to stuff into the droppod for dreads. With the re-roll charge, you massively improve your chances to get a charge off.

Hey guys I have a 1000pts Throne of Skulls tournament coming in and was thinking of a list. Take a look and let me know what you think. Missions are Eternal War vanilla missions on 4x4 tables.

I won't bother you with full lists, but here are my thoughts.

Drop pod list
Ragnar, WGBL (TH/SS), Company Ancient, Blood Claws (WG w/TH, PL w/PF) drop from a Drop Pod (Missiles)
2x Grey Hunters (Termi WG w/Combi-Plasma, 1x Plasma Gun)
Long Fangs (Termie WG w/Cyclone Launcher, 2x Lascannons, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher)

The plan here is to start the battle with the Grey Hunters and Long Fangs in cover to soak up fire with the terminator WG. Hold out until T2 comes and use Ragnar's re-roll on charge to increase the odds of my Blood Claw and WGBL connecting. From there they wreck face with covering fire from Grey Hunters and Long fangs.

Pros: Can't lose my charging units due to being in a drop pod.
Cons: Restricted to T2 assault, still rely on Deepstrike that can be screened-off. Affter dropping I have little mobility being on foot.

Stormwolf list
Wolf Lord (TH/SS), WGBL (Wolf Claws), 2x Blood Claws (Wg TH, Leader PF, 4x BC) riding a Stormwolf
Grey Hunters (Termi WG w/Combi-Plasma, 1x Plasma Gun)
Long Fangs (Termie WG w/Cyclone Launcher, Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher)

Plan is to deploy the Stormwolf away from enemy, then shoot and position so I won't need much charge distance.

Pros: Harder to deny my charge with screening.
Cons: Few bodies on T1 and of course, if the Stormwolf gets shot down in the corner of the table I might as well just walk off the table in disgust.

Chap Dread list
Chaplain Dread (twin Lascannon, relic bolter)
Rune Priest (Stormcaller, Wolf Spirits)
WGBL
3x Grey Hunters (WG w/Combi-plasma, Plasma gun)
Long Fangs (2x Lascannon, 2x Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher)

The Long Fangs varied weaponry make use of the Mortal Wound strats whenever possible and the Chap Dread can get everyone +1 to wound vehicles and monsters. The plan is to sit and shoot until major threats are down then move forward with Grey Hunters and the characters/Dread into CC if needed.

Pros: Heavier firepower that is hard to move due to being a character.
Cons: No mobility at all means that I have to footslog through enemy fire if I face enemies that won't come to me.

I'm not sure what to do at 1k points exactly. I sadly can't use my Thunderwolves and my Wulfen for they are conversions using non-GW parts that are not allowed in this event.

The double flamer is an index option so its still legal on land speeders. I don't suggest making one unless you magnitize the weapons, but i already own 3 so have no issue suggesting it as an option. It will scare your opponent more than it should, so it does make a good distraction carnifex for the cost.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
What does everyone think of say.. a squad of Landspeeders with multimeltas?

Speed them forward, 3 multimeltas (maybe something else too) and use keen senses to take away the -1 to hit when moving.

I feel like they're small enough to hide on a flank and keeping them in a unit of 3 gives them all the ability to remove the -1 to hit from keen senses.

Multi-Meltas are still bad because 27 points for that weapon is stupid ridiculous.

One observation:

Rune priest on bike is the superior choice. More movement, more T, more W, twin bolters AND cheaper than jumppack variant.

Northern85Star wrote:
One observation:

Rune priest on bike is the superior choice. More movement, more T, more W, twin heavy bolters AND cheaper than jumppack variant.

True, but biker is more restricted by terrain. May not matter much depending on the table, but it is something to consider.

Yeah fly is pretty good ability. Also twin HEAVY bolters? Are wolves indeed able to give bikes with two HEAVY bolters in it?

I know, but he has a 20” move when he advances - and can still cast psychic powers. With living lightning and smite, he essentially is able to get in position of units hiding in buildings and smite them twice.

Twin bolters - still much better than when comparing to the slightly more expensive jump pack variant.

Just use more melee oriented characters for jump packs, if there’s trouble with units hiding in buildings!

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
So why is the Wulfen Dread considered terribad? Talking about the Axe&Shield version here.

VenDread
+Smoke launchers
+6+++
+WS2+
-6" move
-No reroll for charges
-No ranged weapon

WulfDread
+8" move
+Rerollable charge
+ 18 pts cheaper (with a SB)
-No smoke
-No FNP
-WS3+

Lack of smoke launchers hurts, but 6+++ is often not very consequential. More speed and a rerollable charge for fewer points doesn't really sound like a terrible deal to me. Sure the nerf to 3++ hurts but am I missing something that makes Wulfen Dread significantly worse than a VenDread or are they just both considered bad now?

Agreed. The main problem is getting the dread into combat. 2" more movement and re-rolling charges does that better then 6+++ (1 wound extra on average) and 1 turn of smoke.

A wulfen dread is much more likely to actually make a turn 2 charge.

I also agree. It's also a much more viable dreadnought to stuff into the droppod for dreads. With the re-roll charge, you massively improve your chances to get a charge off.

Plus the 3+ to hit matters less in the first phase he charges anyway, which is where most of the combat will be determined to see how things are gonna go.

Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.

Azuza001 wrote:
Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.

Jump pack it is!

Azuza001 wrote:
Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.

Actually he gets to use two powers, however he only knows one spell from the Tempestas discipline. If you just intend to spam mortal wounds with Smite + Living Lightning I guess a bike RP is still viable. Personally I want to go with Storm Caller + Fury of the Wolf Spirits which is why I need the JP RP.

You are correct, my mistake, but my point still stands. Limiting him to smite + 1 power isn't as useful as smite + 2 options.

:p

Fellow Jarls I need your knowledge. I have two rhino's filled with bloodclaw killers a lord and a WGBL. It's 1000pts. Now I'm seeing three ways to protect them so they make it into combat.

1) Use a Rune Priest to cast Storm and use the stratagem. Great if I win initiative, a liability if I don't.

2) Put a Wulfen Dread with a Shield to distract the enemy and hopefully draw fire. It at least works even if I lose initiative, but the Wulfen dread will likely not survive whereas the priest would.

3) Add a predator to the back line to draw fire. While not as resilient as the Wulfen, if it survives it can provide covering fire on subsequent turns.

The list is two blood claw squads, Lord and WGBL riding in two rhinos with a long fang and a Grey hunter squad to hold back objectives. I'm trying to round it up with the options above.

Edit: Can't use my Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cav since they use 3rd party bits and mounts and this is an official GW event.

There are a few distraction units you could try. 3 landspeeders with heavy flamers will get a lot of attention. A stormfang/stormwolf will as well. However these are expensive points wise just for a distraction.

Out of the 3 options you gave i would say either the rune priest or the predator are where i would go. Between the two... predator. If your rhinos do get blown away the pred is still useable and pretty dangerous on its own. The rune priest isnt targetable so its not a distraction.

arhurt wrote:
Fellow Jarls I need your knowledge. I have two rhino's filled with bloodclaw killers a lord and a WGBL. It's 1000pts. Now I'm seeing three ways to protect them so they make it into combat.

1) Use a Rune Priest to cast Storm and use the stratagem. Great if I win initiative, a liability if I don't.

2) Put a Wulfen Dread with a Shield to distract the enemy and hopefully draw fire. It at least works even if I lose initiative, but the Wulfen dread will likely not survive whereas the priest would.

3) Add a predator to the back line to draw fire. While not as resilient as the Wulfen, if it survives it can provide covering fire on subsequent turns.

The list is two blood claw squads, Lord and WGBL riding in two rhinos with a long fang and a Grey hunter squad to hold back objectives. I'm trying to round it up with the options above.

Edit: Can't use my Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cav since they use 3rd party bits and mounts and this is an official GW event.

A distraction has to be more dangerous to draw the fire.
I would ignore your Wulfen Dread because it will take 2-3 turns to get to me and kill your Rhino instead.
I would ignore your Predator because the Rhino's doing their thing is more dangerous.

Go for the Rune Priest, try to deploy behind cover and simply accept that your rhino's will sometimes die in your deployment zone.

Wulfen Dreads actually have potential to do a Turn 2 Charge.

 Weazel wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.

Actually he gets to use two powers, however he only knows one spell from the Tempestas discipline. If you just intend to spam mortal wounds with Smite + Living Lightning I guess a bike RP is still viable. Personally I want to go with Storm Caller + Fury of the Wolf Spirits which is why I need the JP RP.

Wouldn’t he only be allowed to take index psychic powers?

juanonymous wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.

Actually he gets to use two powers, however he only knows one spell from the Tempestas discipline. If you just intend to spam mortal wounds with Smite + Living Lightning I guess a bike RP is still viable. Personally I want to go with Storm Caller + Fury of the Wolf Spirits which is why I need the JP RP.

Wouldn’t he only be allowed to take index psychic powers?

Well it's from the same Discipline and that Discipline was updated.

So how is the codex looking for grey hunters/Terminator lists? Do you need Wulfen and Calvary to be effective or can an old 4e/5e ground pounder list make a go of it?

Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?

 Weazel wrote:
Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?

You can only cast Living Lightning once per turn anyway, so that does no effect.

The D6 MW will give you a slight higher chance to destroyed the a squad that has taken significant casaulty when being smited earlier in the psychic phase. So you can let the D6 MW jumped to the next unit. It will be fun, but don't expectit can help you kill more than two units with this combo.

I imagine that against another elite army like marines using msu you could use smites and murderous hurricane to whittle down units and then living lightning them afterward. Might be fun to try in a 1k-1.5k game where the chances of someone bring msu is more likely.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?

You can only cast Living Lightning once per turn anyway, so that does no effect.

Once per RP you mean? I meant if all three RPs would get D6 with the stratagem that would be nice. Maybe slightly overpowered, but nice nonetheless!

 Weazel wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?

You can only cast Living Lightning once per turn anyway, so that does no effect.

Once per RP you mean? I meant if all three RPs would get D6 with the stratagem that would be nice. Maybe slightly overpowered, but nice nonetheless!

Under Matched play rules you can only try to cast a psychic power once per phase regardless of how many psykers you have. So even if the Stratagem would effect all 3 RP's you can only cast the power once per phase

 Ordana wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?

You can only cast Living Lightning once per turn anyway, so that does no effect.

Once per RP you mean? I meant if all three RPs would get D6 with the stratagem that would be nice. Maybe slightly overpowered, but nice nonetheless!

Under Matched play rules you can only try to cast a psychic power once per phase regardless of how many psykers you have. So even if the Stratagem would effect all 3 RP's you can only cast the power once per phase

Oh yeah that rule, forgot about it completely. Oh well, I guess it kills that idea then.

I think it's still pretty powerful. If it's a larger unit, you smite a couple times first. Then use it + strategem to (hopefully) kill the last few guys. With the D6 mortal wounds, it will then jump to the next unit and do another D6 mortal wounds. Which is no joke.

Inspired by living lightning:

1999 pts, 9 cp (batallion + air wing)

3x runepriest w/ jumppack

5 x BCs w/ wgpl, th/ss

2 x 5 GHs w/ plasma pistol in each.

2 x 5 wulfen, 3 th/ss, gfa in each.

Cyberwolf

5 long fangs with either ML or LC

Rhino w/ SB and hunterkiller.

Stormfang
2 x stormhawks.


1 wulfen outflank, other in stormfang with the BCs. Hoping the BC wgpl will become lone wolf. RPs form a circle with flyers and rhino around, starts smiting and creating defensive bubble. When it looks like living lightning can finish a unit between the smites, go for it (hoping for 2d6 worth of mortal wounds). Ships then unload 24 AC shoots, 24 HB shots, 6 LC shots and the helfrost, much of it hitting on 2s against flyers. Cyberwolf to hold objectives, GHs can do that too, or help out with the fighting. Rhino starts as screen for LFs.

Against very shooty armies, both units of wulfen outflank, to make the stormfang less of a target in case we get turn 2. Maybe the BCs too.

One of the RPs have got Fury of the wolf spirits to act as a melee character, with warlord trait and relic.

This is just a quick attempt. Havent got the models to try it out.