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Had a friendly game against my friends D.A. Ragnar is still trash lol, hes wonderful against fluffly non T6+ models but fails hard against T6 and above. His re roll charges is both good and bad as well. since hes slow its bad, but situationally its ok.

Wulfen are just always better as a reroll charge buffer.

Runepriest with freki/geri was fun and could have been amazing if i didnt double 1 twice killing him the 2nd time.

I think defensive priest is always better as 1st choice runepriest.

Quick question, is Wolf lord in gravis armour usable or its a little overcosted?

Araablane wrote:
Quick question, is Wolf lord in gravis armour usable or its a little overcosted?

It is overcosted imo. moves too slow compare to Wolf Lord on Jumppack or Thurnder Wolf Mount, so he cannot get into enemy's face quick to use his 5 attacks. TBH, I rather use a Thurnder Wolf Mount Wolf Lord with stormbolter and Powerfist if want to get one at the cost of around 130+ pts (Gravis WL is about 135pts iirc, the mounted one being 132pts). The mounted one have slightly better shooting, similar combat ability with 3 Str 5 attacks from the wolf and 4 Str8 attack from the lord. Moves at double speed and being way way way more fluffy in Space Wolf army.

Azuza001 wrote:
Until land raiders get either a significant price reduction or an increase in durability they will stay in the friendly game zone. They are just too easy to kill, especially in the new knight meta.

Plus if you use them as transports, you make it very easy for the opponent to charge them with something and thus negate several hundred points of shooting in your next turn. At least this is one place where the Repulsor is actually vaguely worthwhile as it can FLY, meaning it can shoot, even after it withdraws from combat.

The Repulsor is also good for subtracting charge range from the enemy. I had that happen against me and it was very frustrating!

Can the Repulsor transport regular Astartes or just Primaris? I'm at work at the moment.

I also want some Hellblasters now, for the sneaky On the Hunt outflanking. That could be really good.

Hellblasters on the hunt is definatly an amazing setup. With double tap at 15 and 6" move onto the board from a table edge only the center of the board is safe. And even then thats easy to get to. Its ALMOST enough to make me want to buy some. But i am sticking to grey hunters, not as much plasma but also a troop choice and cheaper so its a trade off.

I like the idea of on the hunt, but I'm hesitant to put too many points into it when a lot of armies can line the back board with chaff and put two weak blocking units on either flank. At the very least most good players should be able to keep valuable things out of outflank plasma and assault range. Of course forcing them to do this has it's own advantages, but I'm not sure I want to put 500 points into it when it seems like a pretty hard counter.

Some of my lists have had small blood claws units outflanking, though, and I feel like that has some potential to eat up guard units and be annoying for cheap.

I painted up my Dark Imperium Hellblasters as Space Wolves and they have done very well. Keep them near Bjorn or a Wolf Lord to reroll 1s and they have plenty of punch. Add a Rune Priest for some defensive buffs and they are reasonable durable. I have not outflanked them yet and the Beta reserve rules put me off a bit but I may try it some time.

I like the idea of on the hunt, but I'm hesitant to put too many points into it when a lot of armies can line the back board with chaff and put two weak blocking units on either flank. At the very least most good players should be able to keep valuable things out of outflank plasma and assault range. Of course forcing them to do this has it's own advantages, but I'm not sure I want to put 500 points into it when it seems like a pretty hard counter.

Some of my lists have had small blood claws units outflanking, though, and I feel like that has some potential to eat up guard units and be annoying for cheap.

I'd put Hellblasters on the hunt anyway. It stops them being shot until they get a chance to shoot at the very least. You then still have the option to bring them on your table side on turn one, or any side on turn 2. If your opponent manages to castle half the table edges, just being them on your side and laugh at his wasted effort. Deploying from On the Hunt on your own side still gives them a 36" threat range. I think the only other way i'd field them is in a Repulsor. Which might have enough firepower to pay for itself. But probably not.

Justyn wrote:

I like the idea of on the hunt, but I'm hesitant to put too many points into it when a lot of armies can line the back board with chaff and put two weak blocking units on either flank. At the very least most good players should be able to keep valuable things out of outflank plasma and assault range. Of course forcing them to do this has it's own advantages, but I'm not sure I want to put 500 points into it when it seems like a pretty hard counter.

Some of my lists have had small blood claws units outflanking, though, and I feel like that has some potential to eat up guard units and be annoying for cheap.

I'd put Hellblasters on the hunt anyway. It stops them being shot until they get a chance to shoot at the very least. You then still have the option to bring them on your table side on turn one, or any side on turn 2. If your opponent manages to castle half the table edges, just being them on your side and laugh at his wasted effort. Deploying from On the Hunt on your own side still gives them a 36" threat range. I think the only other way i'd field them is in a Repulsor. Which might have enough firepower to pay for itself. But probably not.

Yeah I get that. But having them come in outside of rapid fire range would be pretty disappointing. So would holding a 330 point unit for two turns and not have it wreck something when it shows up. I guess I am just comparing it to the deathwatch deepstrike strategem, and its just it's not nearly as good.

So anyone got any decent advice vs Tau? I think I've played against them 2 or 3 times since they were introduced. I know they are shooty, have big robots, and overwatch ridiculously.

I suggest a chaplain dread with beastslayer and a gunline of leviathan and 2 mortis contemptors, long fangs and hellblaster! that should be good.

Justyn wrote:
So anyone got any decent advice vs Tau? I think I've played against them 2 or 3 times since they were introduced. I know they are shooty, have big robots, and overwatch ridiculously.

I played a 1k game against tau the other night and ate them alive. It depends on the opponent and what your play style is etc. we played the mission big guns never tire so objectives are worth 3vp at the end of the battle. I outflanked my wulfen and wolf priest to charge a vehicle of his and positioned my self behind cover before the charge so I could not be overwatched. Then I tried to consolidate after every combat into another unit so I could not be overwatched. Also the good thing about the Tau greater good is that if the lend over. Watch to another unit then that unit cannot overwatch again. Some units can be sacrificed in order to eat the overwatch for another unit. I used that tactic to eat a couple battle suit commanders. The -1 to hit spell tempests wrath really hurt the tau shooting. Stirmshields hidden in units can be helpful as well. I kept most of my armyvalive by moving up the board thru as much cover as possible. Most of the weapons I faced were S5 but had no AP modifier so marines getting 2+ cover is awesome.

I suggest a chaplain dread with beastslayer and a gunline of leviathan and 2 mortis contemptors, long fangs and hellblaster! that should be good.

Well I don't own a chappy, leviathan or contemptors. I am planning on bringing fangs and probably some hellblasters as well.


Post 2018/09/02 10:05:53 Subject: For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition)
Justyn wrote:
So anyone got any decent advice vs Tau? I think I've played against them 2 or 3 times since they were introduced. I know they are shooty, have big robots, and overwatch ridiculously.

I played a 1k game against tau the other night and ate them alive. It depends on the opponent and what your play style is etc. we played the mission big guns never tire so objectives are worth 3vp at the end of the battle. I outflanked my wulfen and wolf priest to charge a vehicle of his and positioned my self behind cover before the charge so I could not be overwatched. Then I tried to consolidate after every combat into another unit so I could not be overwatched. Also the good thing about the Tau greater good is that if the lend over. Watch to another unit then that unit cannot overwatch again. Some units can be sacrificed in order to eat the overwatch for another unit. I used that tactic to eat a couple battle suit commanders. The -1 to hit spell tempests wrath really hurt the tau shooting. Stirmshields hidden in units can be helpful as well. I kept most of my armyvalive by moving up the board thru as much cover as possible. Most of the weapons I faced were S5 but had no AP modifier so marines getting 2+ cover is awesome.

Tau player must have forgotten all the ignore cover they have in their book. Charging around corners is great when you can pull it off. Thanks guys. I'll let you know how it went.

Prepare to have the longs fangs and hellblasters shot off the board if the opponent goes first. Any Tau player worth their salt will focus on them first. Maybe put them on the hunt if you use beta rules. You could always negate any -1 modifiers for moving etc. with the new stratagem keen senses. You could always bring them on in your own deployment zone turn 1 to keep them from being shot at.

What's the best units then vs knights?.. lots of really expensive wulfen?..

There are lots of options for dealing with knights. The problem is they all cost as much as or more than the knight does.

Bjorn or Murderfang can wreck a knight in cc. Wulfen with thunder hammers can too. Longfangs with multi meltas or lascannons will also be effective in numbers.

The problem is if you miss with your first attempt to kill the knight it will destroy whatever made the attempt in short order. Also getting into range is a problem, most knights i see use raven household so can advance and shoot their heavy weapons with 0 penalty. That means they can out manuver our dreads and typically avoid cc if they want. On top of that they can just walk out of combat and shoot you.

Add the 3++ save and the only real good answer is another knight or mass numbers so the knight doesnt matter.

Something i was toying with was a rune priest kill team for dealing with knights. Drop 3 of them in with jump packs and go on the psycic offensive. 3 smites should be able to get 3d3 mortals on it plus lightning for another d6 mortals. Its not going to kill the knight but it may slow it down enough to become managable for 360 pts.....

It’s weird how the iron priests’ tempest hammer is still terribly overcosted. 30 pts for a thunderhammer with the helfrost ability on a 6...

Please for the love of God don't recommend Multi-Meltas as a counter to Knights.

Long Fangs with Lascannons and the reroll to-Wound stratagem are not exciting but are a points-efficient way of softening Knights up at range, then charge them with anything that has Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields.

I prefer TWC to Wulfen because TWC are not infantry and so can actually lock a knight in combat. This is a big deal as Knights need to be shooting every turn (apart from Gallants) to make their points back. A unit in CC also can't be shot by the other Knights.

Apart from that, Tempest's Wrath is good as applying a -1 to-Hit penalty is great if you land it on a 500+ point unit and Knights typically don't have much psychic defense.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Please for the love of God don't recommend Multi-Meltas as a counter to Knights.

But Slayer you only need 48 BS3+ multi-meltas that didn't move to kill a knight with a 3++ in melta range with average rolls. Lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Really the only good way to kill knights is in close combat. Which luckily is something SW are okay at.

... Except if they have the flamer, especially as relic.

Northern85Star wrote:
... Except if they have the flamer, especially as relic.

Sure but that's one knight, and you have to charge rhinos it something at it first. Or maybe shoot at that one.

jcd386 wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
... Except if they have the flamer, especially as relic.

Sure but that's one knight, and you have to charge rhinos it something at it first. Or maybe shoot at that one.

Or do all the above.

Or take your own knight.

BrianDavion wrote:
Or take your own knight.

Yup that's what I'm gonna do. I think a Gallant, Warden, or Crusader could be a good distraction to help TWC, blood claw rhinos, or Wulfen make it through the first turn. I'm gonna try it out, anyway.

So I had 2 games today with my Wolves, 1 vs Tyranids and 1 vs Tau.

I have had a long day and don't have my stuff right infront of me so I will try and explain stuff the best I can, but if I get names wrong please don't be upset.



Vs the Tyranid player he had a list that was heavy in Warriors, with a Tyranid Hive Tyrant, 9 Warriors, a Trygon, a Trygon Prime deep striking in and a squad of 6 Zonathropes, a Carnifex, 9 Warriors, 20 Genestealers, and a Brood Lord on the board.

Game 1


Game 2 was much closer. Ended up with an ending score of 17 to 16, with me winning. We were trying a new rules idea to try and find a solution to the whole "going first is such a huge advantage" thing. We decided that you could only score at the end of a battleROUND. This ment player 2 always had a chance to push player 1 off of an objective to stop them from scoring, but player 1 had to work to get his points. Was one HECK of a game!

He had 2 riptides, a hammer head, a longshot, 2 of the heavy battle suits with a ton of missiles, some stealth suits, and a TON of fire warriors and path finders.

Game was a real blood bath. He did a great job of keeping me off the objectives. I won 'pick side' and 'go first' but misjudged the terrain horribly, giving him the side with a lot of cover but me the side with some great line of site blocking terrain. I wanted better line of site for my tanks, but maybe it wasn't the best option.



So I am sure about this list now. It really does work well. The fact that it gets the support fire up close where it needs turn 2, the holding of the castle with the -1 to hit and lots of firepower with a long range, and even the simple drop pod that opponents simply don't want to spend time killing even though its a simple drop in to hold an objective, its been pretty effective. Heck, my 2nd opponent had never seen a whirlwind this edition on the table or 3 predators like that and after that game he was sold on them. He saw mine in action 3 times, saw me take the same list twice before playing against it, and even knowing how I played it he really wasn't sure how effective it would be until he went against it.

I have not gone up against anyone yet who was using a strong deep strike element like mine is so I know it has a weakness that I am not sure about how to fix (as a pure wolf list as it is, I know adding guard in would fix that problem).

So I had my game vs Tau today. It was a blast.

My list was
Wolflord on TW with TH and SS, Wulfenstone, Saga of the Warrior Born
Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Jump Pack, TH SS Armor of Russ
Wolf Priest Jump Pack
Rune Priest Jump Pack
Dark Angels Librarian Jump Pack (yeah I spent two CP to use the strat)
Two full 15 man Blood Claw Squads with PF on Pack Leader, and WGPL with Terminator Armor TH +SS
5 man GH squad with chainswords
10 Man Wulfen squad 9x TH SS
Wulfen Dread Blizzard Shield, Great Wolf Claw, 2xStormbolter
Dorito Dread with Autocannon and Automantic Shielding. (area invun save 5++)

Opponent had
1 Stormsurge.
6 Squads of 8 Fire Warriors
5 or 6 squads of 10 Kroot
4 units of Kroothounds
3-4 Kroot Shapers
two battlesuit commanders with Fusion Guns and melee weapons (the signature systems i think)
One unit of 5 pathfinders
Some more individual models and a few drones. One gave an area 5++

So my plan was group everyone within 6" of the Rune Priest, cast -1 to hits with both the Rune Priest and the DA Librarian and Mind Wipe with the Libby. Use the Strategem for another -1 to hit. On top of that the Dorito would give everyone a 5++.

His plan was to have a brick of 48 Fire Warriors that could all overwatch for each other. And a ton of Kroot/hounds to charge me first, with the two commanders to assassinate leaders where they could.

Pre-Game the DA Libby and the Wolf Lord had a duel. Unluckily they both lost a wound. Then the Wulfen Deployed on the Hunt.

We played Maelstrom of War with standard set up. I set up for a push straight down the middle. Hoping resiliency would get me into combat. Despite having half as many drops, I got to go second.

He moved a unit of Kroot and a unit of Hounds up each flank. Two units of Kroot into the center of the table. His shooting killed 5ish Blood Claws from one unit and removed 7 Wounds from the Dorito. He started to score one defend objective in his backfield.

I moved the entire block forward. Failed to cast 2 out of 4 powers. Using Tempests Wrath on the Stormsurge, and Living Lightning on one of the units of Kroot in the middle of the table. The DA Libby failed utterly to do anything. (I was going to name him Token, but now I'm thinking Starscream). But I did use the strategem for -1 to be hit. Then the Blood Claws the Wulfen Dred and the Wolf Guard Battle leader charged. One unit of Blood Claws failed to make the charge. The Kroot were wiped out. I scored two VP, one for wiping a unit in the fight phase and one for casting Psycic powers.

His turn two he moved more units in front of his gunline. Reduced the Blood Claws to one model (who became a Lone Wolf, go team). Reduced the Dorito to 1 wound, took 4 wounds off the Wulfen Dread. He also jumped his commander into the middle of my group and attempted to assassinate both the Rune Priest and the Libby. He missed with the Fusion Guns and then charged them. He also charged the Lone Wolf, Termi and LT. (Important because the LT was close enough to Heroic Intervene against his commander and make it swing last but couldn't due to now being tied up). The remainder of my characters did Heroically intervene. The Battlesuit Commander killed the Rune Priest. The Wolf Lord killed the Commander (activating his deed). Most of the kroot who charged died, but he spent two CP to make them pass Morale, tying up my units. I score one VP for making a heroic Interception. He scores two for defending his objective.

My Turn two, the Wolf Priest and Wolf Lord skirt the combat occurring in the center of the table and move up. My second Blood Claw unit move to the side to be able to assault the Flanking Kroot and hounds on the right. The Dorito moves his full 3" forward. The Wulfen arrive, my opponent has got caught up and moved his kroot hounds forward to throw them in front of the SW tide, leaving a gap that the Wulfen can deploy 9" from the Stormsurge. My Grey Hunters move to an object, scoring it and starting to defend it. The Dorito shoots a few Tau. Then everything charges. Three Wulfen are killed in overwatch. They do a grand total of 9 wounds to the Stormsurge. The Wolf Priest kills a few Tau. The Wolf Lord bounces 6 attacks on shield drones. The fight in the center is finished, with the Wulfen Dread able to advance into two units of Tau Fire Warriors. 4 Units of Fire Warriors and the Stormsurge are engaged in close combat, one unit was finished off by morale. The blood claws on the flank kill the Kroot and surround the shaper. I score one VP for making an assault with a unit coming in from reserve.

Tau turn 3. The Tau gunline falls back and shoots. They finish off the Dorito take one more wound off the Wulfen Dread and kill all but one of the Wulfen. A couple of hounds and his other battlesuit (this one with the unique powerfist thing) charge my units in the center. My Wolf Lord and Wolf Priest Heroically intervene right back into the Tau. The Battlesuit Commander bounced on the Blizzard Shield and got eviscerated for his troubles.

We called it at this point. I was going to be up on VP on my turn (although we were tied at that point. I don't recall what else he scored). But more Importantly my command units were in his lines and he would never be able to get away from them again. Also the store was closing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

So I am sure about this list now. It really does work well. The fact that it gets the support fire up close where it needs turn 2, the holding of the castle with the -1 to hit and lots of firepower with a long range, and even the simple drop pod that opponents simply don't want to spend time killing even though its a simple drop in to hold an objective, its been pretty effective. Heck, my 2nd opponent had never seen a whirlwind this edition on the table or 3 predators like that and after that game he was sold on them. He saw mine in action 3 times, saw me take the same list twice before playing against it, and even knowing how I played it he really wasn't sure how effective it would be until he went against it.

Looks like you had two great games there. I'm not sold on the Whirlwinds. But Predators are very solid. Your list has a ton of wounds many of them high toughness. Did you have to use CP to get Storm Caller off? It just seems like its not going to work very often being casting value 8 now.

So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?

 Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?

TWC needs support, but there is lots to get. They can get up to +3 A each now, with wulfen (stone), saga of the wolfkin and Arjac