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Just ally in a Knight (any kind). That'll grab your opponent's attention real quick.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Just ally in a Knight (any kind). That'll grab your opponent's attention real quick.

and well a knight seems expensive mass transports add up real fast too.

I look at drop pods not as 85 pts but as 60 pts plus 25 pts to save a command point, but i understand your feelings on them. Anytime i bring one in a game my opponents typically go "oh, so your not really serious about this game."

Had a game today vs tyranids. I tried some things differently, ran 2 whirlwinds with the castallian launchers (really prefer Vengence i think), a heavy bolter longfang squad, and tried the dreadnaught approach. 2 venerable dreads with axes and shields, murderfang, bjorn w/ twin laz, and a rune priest and iron priest with the armor of russ.

Iron priests are actually really cool in this setup. He ended up healing 5 wounds on my venerables in the game, and that pistol is no joke. And the 4++ wasnt that bad, buffing them to 2+ with the storm (only got it off once this game) and -1 to hit made up for it i suppose. They still died to smite spam though, zomathropes are nasty pieces of work. Thankfully the whirlwinds did some work vs them this game.

Oh, murderfang was awsome this game. Killed a bunch of genestealers with the help of a 10 man grey hunter squad and the long fangs, killed the broodlord in 1 round when it charged him (silly broodlord, murderfang doesnt mind your hugs), killed a big psycic bug (dont remember its name, it doesnt get played much by tyranid players apparently. It got +1 to casting though) and diced some zomathropes up before they could smite him. Bjorn did great too, did a bunch of wounds to the swarmlord in cc thanks to the swarmlord deciding to fight with nerf swords the first round it charged in. 4 hits on bjorn, rolled 4 1's to wound. I don't think bjorn is worth 250 pts though with the twin laz. Its too much.

And i am still finding success with grey hunter squads in packs of 10 with krom helping out. Krom did more than enough to earn a permanent place in my army. He finished off old one eye after it tore through 20 grey hunters in cc. The grey hunters ended up putting 6 wounds on him through overwatch and cc, but it was krom heroically intervening 6" and getting a round to finish the big bug off. Krom rules!

So I have a 1250 pt game tonight with a buddy at the FLGS. I typically only use single faction armies but I haven't gotten around to painting anything more of my wolves other then all my HQs. I was thinking of possibly taking a patrol detachment of deathwatch vet squad with 4 frag cannons, 5 SS and stormbolters with a watch master for deepstriking nuke shenanigans. I may still go all wolves but this opponent does like to play against painted armies and he happens to fear my DW due to me previously crushing him with them. Here are some sample lists.

I like the 2nd list but your long fangs dont have any sort of ablative wounds to protect them. You are going to feel every loss there.

Having said that i think your first list has a better chance. Whats the game plan? Are you outflanking anything? Do you plan on running the wulfen and 2 hq's up the field using the -1 to hit strat a lot?

Azuza001 wrote:
I like the 2nd list but your long fangs dont have any sort of ablative wounds to protect them. You are going to feel every loss there.

Having said that i think your first list has a better chance. Whats the game plan? Are you outflanking anything? Do you plan on running the wulfen and 2 hq's up the field using the -1 to hit strat a lot?

First off, my FLGS doesn't use the beta rules so I can deep strike first turn if I need to. This opponent prefers using Predators with HQ supports, and scouts to push DS further out.

For the first list I planned on moving the bloodclaws, wulfen and priests up the field together and using the -1 spell on whatever I don't want hurting them too bad. The storm shields should mitigate some of the High AP weapon shots and let them make it to CC. Then I will deepstrike the Vets and watch master into shooty shooty range and blast apart or maim what need to die. This could change if I go second.

The second list is going to outflank the wolf priest, wulfen and scouts together most likely turn 2 and preferably behind cover so they will survive if they fail the charge. The scouts will provide plasma fire support for the wulfen and the priest will be looking to eat a weak unit to get his saga going and boost the wulfen's attack numbers. The long fangs are only allowed 5 long fangs 1 pack leader and 1 WGPL. at most I could get 2 more wounds with a terminator WGPL. Didn't want to spend the points on him. The HB is there for the hellfire strat. JP WG and priest will be flying up the field trying to take out any chaff ie: the scouts to allow the outflanking units to be closer to his main gunline. All of the BC will be running up the field hoping to survive until the charge.

Edit:
Perhaps for the first list I could risk some missed shots and take a watch captain instead and also take a JPWL and give him the wulfen stone, saga of wolfkin, so that he can get right to eating units. Id have to move some points around. Thinking maybe dual wolf claws to save points and focus him on clearing T5 and lower to get his saga going quickly

KnightScion wrote:
So can someone point me in the direction of the approved units from FW for Space Wolves?

2nd part of the question I have a Storm Eagle and a Fire Raptor, are they approved for SW and If not, how much of an issue would it be if I converted the Storm Eagle into a Storm Wolf or Fang (the Transport option) as long as it is equipped with the same weapon load out?

FW FAQ let SW get access to everything. Only Legion of the damned and GK are limited at the moment. Sometimes the codex FAQ has additional restrictions, so wait for that to drop before you blow FW bucks.
Both of those fliers are approved for SW, only thing that is unknown is if Wulfen can travel in FW transports. Currently the codex stuff states if they can or cannot. The FW stuff doesn't do either, so you can and cannot take wulfen in the storm eagle. I've been wanting a spartan for a wulfen bomb, but if they cannot get in it, I wont get it.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I like the 2nd list but your long fangs dont have any sort of ablative wounds to protect them. You are going to feel every loss there.

Having said that i think your first list has a better chance. Whats the game plan? Are you outflanking anything? Do you plan on running the wulfen and 2 hq's up the field using the -1 to hit strat a lot?

First off, my FLGS doesn't use the beta rules so I can deep strike first turn if I need to. This opponent prefers using Predators with HQ supports, and scouts to push DS further out.

For the first list I planned on moving the bloodclaws, wulfen and priests up the field together and using the -1 spell on whatever I don't want hurting them too bad. The storm shields should mitigate some of the High AP weapon shots and let them make it to CC. Then I will deepstrike the Vets and watch master into shooty shooty range and blast apart or maim what need to die. This could change if I go second.

The second list is going to outflank the wolf priest, wulfen and scouts together most likely turn 2 and preferably behind cover so they will survive if they fail the charge. The scouts will provide plasma fire support for the wulfen and the priest will be looking to eat a weak unit to get his saga going and boost the wulfen's attack numbers. The long fangs are only allowed 5 long fangs 1 pack leader and 1 WGPL. at most I could get 2 more wounds with a terminator WGPL. Didn't want to spend the points on him. The HB is there for the hellfire strat. JP WG and priest will be flying up the field trying to take out any chaff ie: the scouts to allow the outflanking units to be closer to his main gunline. All of the BC will be running up the field hoping to survive until the charge.

Edit:
Perhaps for the first list I could risk some missed shots and take a watch captain instead and also take a JPWL and give him the wulfen stone, saga of wolfkin, so that he can get right to eating units. Id have to move some points around. Thinking maybe dual wolf claws to save points and focus him on clearing T5 and lower to get his saga going quickly

Not using beta rules will help that kind of list for sure. As for the long fangs how i run them is 4 heavy weapons, 2 regular extra wounds, and a wgpl with storm shield. He makes 1 of those 3++ saves and he is worth his points. I have had games where he tanked 10 shots before going down, i find him always worth it.

So I got another game in yesterday making it my second with the new codex. It was 1250 pts against an ultramarines opponent with lots of armor. I made som deployment errors and even with the +1 to go first I had to go second and was unable to seize. Mission was big guns never tire and dawn of war deployment. Here is the list I took.


My opponent had 2 units of scouts, 1 tac squad, 3 razorback with asscannon, stormtalon gunship, captain, Lt and venerable rifleman dread, and 3 bikes. The board we played on had a decent amount of cover in the way of 3 buildings a couple trenches, and 4 of those GW made tree copses. We played these as area terrain and the first floor of building could not be shot thru.

What did I learn:
Long fangs should be hidden out of LOS no matter what! Turn 1 they were wiped to the man. Only thing I can say is my opponent used every last gun to shoot them out of their cover which saved the rest of my army. Next time I'll hide them and then on my turn move them and use keen senses.

using cover is key especially against a gunline army like the ultramarines that won't come to you. I was able to get my footslogging bloodclaws into combat turn 2 with some excellent rolls and wulfen outflanking to buff them with reroll charge.

The wolf lord with claws, wulfen stone and wolfkin saga is amazing. He has 7 attacks and never missed do to his innate reroll 1s 2+ to hit and reroll all failed wounds. I got saga off turn 2 as soon as he made contact with a scout unit and wiped them.
The lord giving the wulfen and extra attack is awesome 4 hammer wulfen in combat with a dread woth 4 attacks each is overkill for sure I believe they did 21 wounds to him! He obvisously blew up killing one lol but worth it. Wulfen are still just sooo good.

The Rune priest did amazing work with smite and lightning. He dealt out 11 mortal wounds over 3 turns . He Periled once and the wolfpriest healed him of 2 wounds lol. Most of which were to his flyer. The stat the gives the -1 tobhit within 6 is expensive but worth it. It got all my bloodclaws across the table safely.

Overall I like this list. I kicked my opponents butt even though he shot some of my stuff to pieces. What lived hurt him bad. my warlord died my other characters lived and I one the game on objectives and linebreaker 10-4. I think I could play this list much better next time watching my deployment more carefully. the long fangs would've made short work of all his armor.

Awsome, good to hear. I do like the idea of using the warlord trait to get wulfen up on attacks. And yeah, wulfen with thunder hammers and storm shields are amazing. 3++/5+++ and get to attack again if killed in cc? There is a reason they get targeted so badly whenever they hit the table.

I feel like an idiot. I just realized Arjac can use his own buff to get five attacks.

/facepalm

Azuza001 wrote:
Awsome, good to hear. I do like the idea of using the warlord trait to get wulfen up on attacks. And yeah, wulfen with thunder hammers and storm shields are amazing. 3++/5+++ and get to attack again if killed in cc? There is a reason they get targeted so badly whenever they hit the table.

Yeah with the index I always used a wolf priest to buff the wulfen to maximize hits. Now I think I'd rather super charge the lord by eating a infantry or chaff unit and then buff them with an extra attack and reroll 1s. I feel like that is better especially now that they get our +1 to hit chapter trait. So they get extra attacks and only miss on 2s. So 5 in 6 chance of hitting is not bad in my book. Plus when other units catch up they benefit from the trait also. I'm going to drop the wolf priest and put in another Rune priest.

Rune priests are very important to a space wolf force now, almost more important than the wolf lord it seems.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Awsome, good to hear. I do like the idea of using the warlord trait to get wulfen up on attacks. And yeah, wulfen with thunder hammers and storm shields are amazing. 3++/5+++ and get to attack again if killed in cc? There is a reason they get targeted so badly whenever they hit the table.

Yeah with the index I always used a wolf priest to buff the wulfen to maximize hits. Now I think I'd rather super charge the lord by eating a infantry or chaff unit and then buff them with an extra attack and reroll 1s. I feel like that is better especially now that they get our +1 to hit chapter trait. So they get extra attacks and only miss on 2s. So 5 in 6 chance of hitting is not bad in my book. Plus when other units catch up they benefit from the trait also. I'm going to drop the wolf priest and put in another Rune priest.

What would be your favored ratio of Hammers in the Wulfen unit though? Obviously loading ALL with the TH/SS would be expensive.

Depends on the point value of the game I'm playing. I took 4 hammers yesterday in a 5 man squad. I'm a larger game I'd take 10 man squad with 5 hammers and the rest frost claws. I like the claws because S6 is still nothing to sneeze at in the large quantities of attacks they will get being buffed by the lord. And unlike hammers and axes they get to reroll all failed wounds. I feel like that is an excellent trade over the higher Strength of the other two. If I were thinking better yesterday I'd have used my consolidate move into the tac squad with the wulfen as an opportunity to pop the attack again strategem. But alas I forgot.

BrianDavion wrote:

murphs wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
IF True Grit worked on Primaris it would be a completely different story. Could you see primaris units in cc being able to shoot those bolt guns of theirs as if they were pistols? Oh man.... such an easy fix to make those units gain something from space wolves that other faction primaris don't get.

True grit does work on Primaris guns.

it costs a CP but for primaris Marines proably definatly worth it in the right situation

My Slaaneshi Daemonkin lost against my friend’s SWs in an ITC game. A True Grit volley by her Intercessors was instrumental in her 19-18 win as it denied me an objective and finished off a unit. Grey Hunters wouldn’t even have been alive to use their bolters

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Depends on the point value of the game I'm playing. I took 4 hammers yesterday in a 5 man squad. I'm a larger game I'd take 10 man squad with 5 hammers and the rest frost claws. I like the claws because S6 is still nothing to sneeze at in the large quantities of attacks they will get being buffed by the lord. And unlike hammers and axes they get to reroll all failed wounds. I feel like that is an excellent trade over the higher Strength of the other two. If I were thinking better yesterday I'd have used my consolidate move into the tac squad with the wulfen as an opportunity to pop the attack again strategem. But alas I forgot.

I would take some Axes instead of the claws, it is only 2pts more expensive, and have +1A on the charge. If you run into something big, or something have FnP, the Axe will do mote damage than the claws, due to higher strength and D3 dmg.
Thus, my idea of the Wulfen loadout is: no less than 50% members with TH/SS (e.g., 3 guys w TH/SS in a pack of 5 or pack of 6, 4 TH/SS in a pack of 7 or 8, and so on). Leader with mandatory Claws, rest guys are carrying Axes.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Depends on the point value of the game I'm playing. I took 4 hammers yesterday in a 5 man squad. I'm a larger game I'd take 10 man squad with 5 hammers and the rest frost claws. I like the claws because S6 is still nothing to sneeze at in the large quantities of attacks they will get being buffed by the lord. And unlike hammers and axes they get to reroll all failed wounds. I feel like that is an excellent trade over the higher Strength of the other two. If I were thinking better yesterday I'd have used my consolidate move into the tac squad with the wulfen as an opportunity to pop the attack again strategem. But alas I forgot.

I would take some Axes instead of the claws, it is only 2pts more expensive, and have +1A on the charge. If you run into something big, or something have FnP, the Axe will do mote damage than the claws, due to higher strength and D3 dmg.
Thus, my idea of the Wulfen loadout is: no less than 50% members with TH/SS (e.g., 3 guys w TH/SS in a pack of 5 or pack of 6, 4 TH/SS in a pack of 7 or 8, and so on). Leader with mandatory Claws, rest guys are carrying Axes.

This seems right to me. SW have so many other ways to kill infantry effectively, I think Wulfen are better tooled out to kill the big stuff.

jcd386 wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Depends on the point value of the game I'm playing. I took 4 hammers yesterday in a 5 man squad. I'm a larger game I'd take 10 man squad with 5 hammers and the rest frost claws. I like the claws because S6 is still nothing to sneeze at in the large quantities of attacks they will get being buffed by the lord. And unlike hammers and axes they get to reroll all failed wounds. I feel like that is an excellent trade over the higher Strength of the other two. If I were thinking better yesterday I'd have used my consolidate move into the tac squad with the wulfen as an opportunity to pop the attack again strategem. But alas I forgot.

I would take some Axes instead of the claws, it is only 2pts more expensive, and have +1A on the charge. If you run into something big, or something have FnP, the Axe will do mote damage than the claws, due to higher strength and D3 dmg.
Thus, my idea of the Wulfen loadout is: no less than 50% members with TH/SS (e.g., 3 guys w TH/SS in a pack of 5 or pack of 6, 4 TH/SS in a pack of 7 or 8, and so on). Leader with mandatory Claws, rest guys are carrying Axes.

This seems right to me. SW have so many other ways to kill infantry effectively, I think Wulfen are better tooled out to kill the big stuff.

I tend to agree, my over all feeling is GW's trying to make TWC our "infantry killers" and wulfen our "big unit killers"

TWC have a decent amount of attacks to help handle slightly bigger models, though it is obviously not their strength.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
TWC have a decent amount of attacks to help handle slightly bigger models, though it is obviously not their strength.

sure but thsoe decent amount of attacks would proably play better as something you'd toss at a unit of infantry, a squad of TWC kitted for hunting infantry may be pretty useful, the wolves attacks have a built in stat line so I'm thinking best to plan around the wolves attacks for what your hitting

From what I can tell, TWC have a massive weakness when infantry hunting, and that is ruins with multiple floors. My local tournament scene features a fair amount of ruins, and that would seem to really hurt TWC competitively. Bikes aren't very common in my area for the same reason. Believe me, I want TWC to be good, and I might just run some anyway, as some infantry hordes simply can't just hide in buildings all game long.

Sorry but saying "BUT RUINS" isn't an argument to me. You can shoot those things if you need to.

Yeah those Alaitoc Rangers are so EASY to shoot down. If your whole vanguard consists of TWC then ruins are a legit problem. We have a lot of ruins and multi level terrain on our tables too.

 Weazel wrote:
Yeah those Alaitoc Rangers are so EASY to shoot down. If your whole vanguard consists of TWC then ruins are a legit problem. We have a lot of ruins and multi level terrain on our tables too.

We....literally have a Stratagem to ignore those hit penalties...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Yeah those Alaitoc Rangers are so EASY to shoot down. If your whole vanguard consists of TWC then ruins are a legit problem. We have a lot of ruins and multi level terrain on our tables too.

We....literally have a Stratagem to ignore those hit penalties...

True that, but I believe they have 3+ or even 2+ cover saves.

Generally my TWC is one TH/SS, one Bolter/SS and one with paired Wolf Claws.
The unit usually dies to smite before it does more than a Bolter shell or two but that is attention diverted away from my fielded Wulfen and Outflanking Wulfen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does Keen Senses work on combo-weapons?

How much mileage are people getting out of Lone Wolf? I can see it being decent on a Cyclone WGPL who’s gradually buried his gunners over several turns, but AFAICT if you use it on someone who’s just survived a medium to large unit wipe then they’re just going to run away from morale?

Long fangs in cover have been getting great use out of it from me. It's not a stratagem you can plan for at all though, as it is to random. Giving a model with a big gun re-roll all hits and all wounds is very, very useful.
Also great if you happen to have it pop on some troops. Now you have an obsec character. My first 2 games I got to use it, my most recent one it never came up as most of my armies deaths were wulfen and TWC.

Lone wolf is a real fluffy strat that is fun to use but dont count on getting to use it. When it happens its nice but not game shatteting.