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With the constant leaks about CA 2018, how you guys feel?

TWC just got better if they can now take Storm Shields at 2 points each. Wulfen will appreciate that too. Long Fangs just got better since the heavy weapons got cheaper. Beyond that, I'm not sure, as I haven't read all the Space Wolves leaks.

Hammer packs of wulfen just got 12 points cheaper. TWC may have gotten cheaper, but they have their own special storm shield mention...so I don't think it applies to them.

Super cheap plasma cannons make hellblasters pointless for us.

A thunder hammer and stormshield terminator loadout is now 205. Stormshield and combi plasma even cheaper.

Nothing that's going to put us on top by ourselves, but a wulfen detachment is now something to take next to knights and IG.

Something like this:


++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Household Choice: House Hawkshroud, Questor Imperialis

Use Beta Rules

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Helverins
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber

Armiger Helverins
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber

Knight Crusader : Character (Knight Lance), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom: Endless Fury, Stormspear Rocket Pod, Thermal Cannon, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
. Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) ++

+ HQ +

Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Jump Packs, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Lord : Jump Packs, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

+ Elites +

Aggressors : 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Pack Leader, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Wulfen
. 4x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

Wulfen
. 4x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Cadian

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Kurov's Aquila, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar


Created with BattleScribe

Should be fun after CA drop. This list will be 1999 points then.

I'm pretty sure Storm Shield for TWC is still 10 points which is a bummer. CA only lists changes and no change was listed for Storm Shield (Thunderwolf Cavalry).

But the SS change still affects Wulfen, and SS Terminators got a total of 6 ppm reduction, which is not too shabby. Combined with the Land Raider reduction a LR full of Hammernators and Arjac might be a viable choice now.

I'm not sure I'll start running Drop Pods or Land Speeders even when both got a 20 ppm drop.

It seems my personal list of 2000pts exact became 1936 list. Quite lovely I say!

So anyone plan on giving Terminators a go?

2pts storm shields means that axes are dead for wulfen since they're just 1pt cheaper than the hammer+shield combo.

I wouldn't bet on the TWC storm shields though. Maybe the change is to consider TWC like any other unit that isn't a character.

I wouldn't count on TWC having 2pt SS until you see it from GW. I'm hoping they meant it to be for TWC also. But my expectations are a bit lower.

Anyone seen info on the Vigilus Stalker Packs?

Before CA:
Storm Shield (Characters): 15
Storm Shield (Thunderwolf Cavalry): 10
Storm Shield (other models): 5

After CA:
Storm Shield (Characters): 10
Storm Shield (Thunderwolf Cavalry): 10
Storm Shield (other models): 2

There really is no argument, two lines changed, one didn't.

Same cost as characters doesn't make any sense though.

Justyn wrote:
I wouldn't count on TWC having 2pt SS until you see it from GW. I'm hoping they meant it to be for TWC also. But my expectations are a bit lower.

Anyone seen info on the Vigilus Stalker Packs?

Yep. Taken from what I remembered (and hopefully understood correctly) from the Vigilus book review of GMG. Bit of mixed feelings. Very fluffy, a little bit "too fair", but utterly brutal if you can pull it off. Very quick outline:

- Eligible models are Battle Leaders, Blood Claws and Reivers.
- Warlord Trait: Saga of the Savage. +1A when charging (probably also when getting charged or heroically intervening). Deed of legend is to inflict 5 wounds (I thought in a single round of CC?) upon which it becomes a 6" aura.
- Relic: Power Axe with a rather hard to pronounce name, +1S, -2AP, Dd3, inflicts D3 mortal wounds instead of normal damage on an unmodified wound roll of 6.
- Stratagems: Blood Scent: 2 CP, +1 to wound rolls in the fight phase when attacking a unit with a model in it that has already suffered at least 1 damage (or has at least 1 dead model in case of 1W models). 2nd Strat I forgot the name of, but it's 1 CP and lets you roll 3D6 for charge distance and then discard the lowest dice.

Verdict: As I said, it's... decent-ish. I had really hoped that there'd be something for TWC in here but no. I also cannot really find a place for Reivers in this formation because of lack of transport options and no access to PF/TH. Disabling Overwatch on infantry is very nice however and they're quite nasty horde clearers though. If only the dudes could take Wolf Claws... Saga of the Savage on a Battle Leader with the relic axe and SS makes for a very cheap yet decent beatstick. Although to make meeting the deed of legend requirement as easy as possible I'd imagine you want a TH on the dude. A small swarm of Blood Claws affected by Saga of the Savage is quite brutal on the charge (4A each, and you can hide a Power Fist and Thunder Hammer in each squad. No wait, make that a TH/SS on the WL + Wulfen Stone and it's 5A for everyone in 3" of the Battle Leader) and will handily demolish anything that is not T8+ or has a 2+ save, and even T8+ with a 3+ save isn't safe when you can activate Blood Scent against it (Why hello mr. Knight). The big caveat is of course that this combo is quite hard to pull off. You have to get in melee range, succeed mutliple charges, then inflict 5W with the Trait holder. If you do however... prepare for carnage.

Only problem is how to get your little monsters safely in CC. Outflanking them is iffy because it's both expensive and even a 3D6 discard lowest 9" charge is far from guaranteed. Thinking that maybe a Stormwolf might be your best bet for this package. WGBL + a 15-Claw squad (or a 7 and 8 man squad if you want an extra TH and PF and are willing to paint an even bigger target on your Stormwolf) and a Stormwolf with quad HB to keep it cheap and give it screen-clearing capability. Get Stormwolf into a good position, clear screens with dispersed Helfrost cannons and bolters, shoot some vehicle or monsters with your Twin Lascannons (good way to get some damage on a 'ard target to help activate Blood Scent). Pray to the Allfather that your flyer doesn't get blown to bits. Next turn, disembark your little deathstar, charge and go to town.

Thanks Pandabeer!

I found this image for anyone who can tease more out of it. The big takeaway is that you need to have made a successful charge to make a best 2 of 3d6 charge. But Blood Claws being in Bold means Blood Claws keyword correct? Or no? If its keyword and covers Skyclaws and Swiftclaws I can see this getting more use.

Justyn wrote:
Thanks Pandabeer!

I found this image for anyone who can tease more out of it. The big takeaway is that you need to have made a successful charge to make a best 2 of 3d6 charge. But Blood Claws being in Bold means Blood Claws keyword correct? Or no? If its keyword and covers Skyclaws and Swiftclaws I can see this getting more use.

Well, that's a bummer for the charge stratagem. Makes outflanking even less viable. But yes, it means Blood Claws keyword, so Sky- and Swiftclaws also qualify for this detachment. Question still remains on how to get those safely across the board without deepstriking, they can't all take Storm Shields like Wolf Guard can. Maybe simply swarm the board with Skyclaws because no Stormwolf means you can take 11-15 extra depending on their loadout (kind of creating a SW Vulcha Skwad).

Edit: Although taking Skyclaws means you'll have to take extra Grey Hunter squads to get those shiny Batallion CPs...

For the TWC debate, remember that CA2018 overrides all points from CA2017 AND includes those that did not change. If a point value is not in CA2018, it is gone. The only thing you need CA2017 for is missions and stuff like the land raider (assuming those are not included in CA2018)

2pt TWC storm shields is right now, RAW, barring an FAQ from GW, as they are not characters, and they are "other models".

Fellas, we just became the storm shield book! at 2pt i'll be hard pressed NOT to take a wolf guard pack leader in my troops with SS and power weapon! Lone wolf obsec ++3 with 3 wounds? Yes please! Hell, even just storm shield for shenanigans!

 gwarsh41 wrote:
For the TWC debate, remember that CA2018 overrides all points from CA2017 AND includes those that did not change. If a point value is not in CA2018, it is gone. The only thing you need CA2017 for is missions and stuff like the land raider (assuming those are not included in CA2018)

2pt TWC storm shields is right now, RAW, barring an FAQ from GW, as they are not characters, and they are "other models".

Fellas, we just became the storm shield book! at 2pt i'll be hard pressed NOT to take a wolf guard pack leader in my troops with SS and power weapon! Lone wolf obsec ++3 with 3 wounds? Yes please! Hell, even just storm shield for shenanigans!

Erm, what? The TWC SS point cost is still in the codex and CA did not overwrite that AFAIK. Unless CA literally lists ALL the point values of EVERY codex, changed or not, which seems highly unlikely to me.

Multiple playtesters who helped work on the book have basically alluded that no Codex in the last ~8 months was included since they were in testing or not written when they did the Chapter Approved 2018 point changes. The only reason Space Wolves get anything right now is because the basic marine stuff changed.

Space Wolves will get their first "true" CA update next year when Drukhari and Knights do, unless they FAQ it first.

 Malkyr wrote:
Multiple playtesters who helped work on the book have basically alluded that no Codex in the last ~8 months was included since they were in testing or not written when they did the Chapter Approved 2018 point changes. The only reason Space Wolves get anything right now is because the basic marine stuff changed.

Space Wolves will get their first "true" CA update next year when Drukhari and Knights do, unless they FAQ it first.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up

edit: wait, does that mean our wolf guard and terminators are still 16/26 points?

Pandabeer wrote:

edit: wait, does that mean our wolf guard and terminators are still 16/26 points?

No, CA2018 overrules the Codex entries.

Ilgoth wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

edit: wait, does that mean our wolf guard and terminators are still 16/26 points?

No, CA2018 overrules the Codex entries.

Yes, but thing is apparently SW aren't in CA 2018 (if I'm understanding this correctly) at all and all our point cost reductions are for gear that is avilable to other SM chapters as well (lascannon, SS etc.). And since Wolf Guard =/= Sternguard/ Vanguard Vet etc. (even Wolf Guard Terminators =/= Terminators) they'd still be 16/26 instead of 14/23.

Pandabeer wrote:

Ilgoth wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

edit: wait, does that mean our wolf guard and terminators are still 16/26 points?

No, CA2018 overrules the Codex entries.

Yes, but thing is apparently SW aren't in CA 2018 (if I'm understanding this correctly) at all and all our point cost reductions are for gear that is avilable to other SM chapters as well (lascannon, SS etc.). And since Wolf Guard =/= Sternguard/ Vanguard Vet etc. (even Wolf Guard Terminators =/= Terminators) they'd still be 16/26 instead of 14/23.

Space wolves are in CA 2018 and it looks like someonw actually thought about it.
Wolf guard 14p
Wolf guard terminators 23p

Blood of Kittens has a compilation of photos:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2018/11/08/chapter-approved-2018-leak-compilation/

Mellon wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

Ilgoth wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

edit: wait, does that mean our wolf guard and terminators are still 16/26 points?

No, CA2018 overrules the Codex entries.

Yes, but thing is apparently SW aren't in CA 2018 (if I'm understanding this correctly) at all and all our point cost reductions are for gear that is avilable to other SM chapters as well (lascannon, SS etc.). And since Wolf Guard =/= Sternguard/ Vanguard Vet etc. (even Wolf Guard Terminators =/= Terminators) they'd still be 16/26 instead of 14/23.

Space wolves are in CA 2018 and it looks like someonw actually thought about it.
Wolf guard 14p
Wolf guard terminators 23p

Blood of Kittens has a compilation of photos:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2018/11/08/chapter-approved-2018-leak-compilation/

Ah, thanks! My understanding was that SW were completely absent from CA points changes, good to see they are not. That only leaves the TWC matter unresolved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, attempt at a Stalker Pack list at 1000 points:

Batallion

HQ
- Battle Leader with JP, TH/SS Saga of the Savage and Wulfen Stone
- Rune Priest with Jump Pack, Armor of Russ, Runic Axe, Psychic Hood, Stormcaller and Fury of the Wolf Spirits

Troops
- 3*5x GH with Chainsword
- 2*1x WGPL with Chainsword and Combi-Bolter
- 1*1x WGPL with Chainsword and Boltgun


Fast Attack
- 15x Skyclaws
- Power Fist, TH/SS

Transports
- 3x Razorback with Twin Assault Cannon

999 points + 2 CP.

Battle Plan: Deploy Battle Leader, Rune Priest and Skyclaws as a big blob, move forward, Rune Priest uses Stormcaller on them for cover. Razorbacks move up and shoot stuff. Second turn disembark GHs and shoot stuff with them, Razorbacks shoot again, Try to damage some big stuff for the Blood Scent stratagem. JP blob moves up and is hopefully in assault range by now. Charge in Rune Priest, Battle Leader and Skyclaws and chop stuff. From there do as game flow dictates.

Biggest pro of this list is that you can throw a ton of dice with it. Unfortunately it's also woefully low on AT weaponry. I've been thinking about switching the Assault Cannons on the Razorbacks for Lascannons but that leaves me with rather low screen-clearing capability T1. Thoughts?

Is the stalker pack only eligible for narrative play?

Was it ever resolved whether the armour of Russ relic makes chargers attack last, or as normal?

Is the stalker pack only eligible for narrative play?

I believe all of the formations from CA2018 are fully legal in matched play.

Was it ever resolved whether the armour of Russ relic makes chargers attack last, or as normal?

from the faq

Q: Can the Armour of Russ relic force a charging unit to attack
after all other units have done so?
A: Yes, unless that chosen unit has an ability that allows
it to fight first in the Fight phase, in which case it instead
fights as if it didn’t have that ability

SS matter is not unresolved. CA does NOT include all point values, only those changed. Or do you honestly think we lost Grey Hunters and Blood Claws with the CA (their points are not included among many others)?

TWC SS is 10pts RAW.

TWC SS is 10pts RAW.

Which will continue to mean they don't see the tabletop.

 Weazel wrote:
SS matter is not unresolved. CA does NOT include all point values, only those changed. Or do you honestly think we lost Grey Hunters and Blood Claws with the CA (their points are not included among many others)?

TWC SS is 10pts RAW.

The SS on TWC is tricky though. Because one can assume that the correcting entries are SS for 2 points and SS for characters capped at 10. General SS and SS for TWC merged into a single entry since TWC aren't characters and it was silly to have two different entries. I honestly don't think GW wanted to keep shields for TWC as expensive as character ones, but RAW you may be right. I think it will be clarified though.

 Blackie wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
SS matter is not unresolved. CA does NOT include all point values, only those changed. Or do you honestly think we lost Grey Hunters and Blood Claws with the CA (their points are not included among many others)?

TWC SS is 10pts RAW.

The SS on TWC is tricky though. Because one can assume that the correcting entries are SS for 2 points and SS for characters capped at 10. General SS and SS for TWC merged into a single entry since TWC aren't characters and it was silly to have two different entries. I honestly don't think GW wanted to keep shields for TWC as expensive as character ones, but RAW you may be right. I think it will be clarified though.

Right, I don't know what that other dude thinks RAW means, as CA18 overwrites CA17 in every way until we get an errata that says otherwise. Storm shields on every model that isn't a character are 100% RAW 2pt. Why do people want TWC to stay bad so much? If this is an actual error, and GW left out (Thunderwolf) entry, then we will see it within a week of release. Plus, we should be getting a weeks worth of previews for data sheets and points adjustments, so maybe it will be taken care of then.


With the new style of missions, do you think wolves will favor an alpha strike, or beta?
If TWC storm shields really stay at 2pt, I think we will have the durability and footprint to survive going first. Luckily we have a good amount of speed with TWC and wulfen, both with SS, I think durability is going to be much more appreciated over damage output with the new mission style.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
SS matter is not unresolved. CA does NOT include all point values, only those changed. Or do you honestly think we lost Grey Hunters and Blood Claws with the CA (their points are not included among many others)?

TWC SS is 10pts RAW.

The SS on TWC is tricky though. Because one can assume that the correcting entries are SS for 2 points and SS for characters capped at 10. General SS and SS for TWC merged into a single entry since TWC aren't characters and it was silly to have two different entries. I honestly don't think GW wanted to keep shields for TWC as expensive as character ones, but RAW you may be right. I think it will be clarified though.

Right, I don't know what that other dude thinks RAW means, as CA18 overwrites CA17 in every way until we get an errata that says otherwise. Storm shields on every model that isn't a character are 100% RAW 2pt. Why do people want TWC to stay bad so much? If this is an actual error, and GW left out (Thunderwolf) entry, then we will see it within a week of release. Plus, we should be getting a weeks worth of previews for data sheets and points adjustments, so maybe it will be taken care of then.


With the new style of missions, do you think wolves will favor an alpha strike, or beta?
If TWC storm shields really stay at 2pt, I think we will have the durability and footprint to survive going first. Luckily we have a good amount of speed with TWC and wulfen, both with SS, I think durability is going to be much more appreciated over damage output with the new mission style.

There has been an actual CODEX between CA17 and CA18 so I'm not really feeling how CA17 has any bearing on the matter whatsoever.

dur, that is on me. I've been comparing CA17 to CA18 looking for points changes. Forgot that CA17 was pre-codex. Well that sucks gak then. TWC having cheaper shields could make them a viable harassment/ lockdown unit. Similar to the role a PBC from death guard plays, but faster and with a larger footprint.

Area denial is something SW could use, but it can't be expensive as TWC currently are with shields, though it has to be as durable as TWC with at least some sort of invul save. We could even use them as a bait unit, similar to how DG terminators are used (and they got a heafty points drop!)

People really just try to keep their hopes up about TWC buff. Weazel has it right.

Our codex has its own entry.
"Storm Shield (Thunderwolf Cavalry)"

If CA2018 does not have exactly the same entry, our Codex entry remains as the standing value.

It's that simple. You can keep hoping that they forgot to include own entry for TWC storm shield, but dont try to bend anywhere further. CA2018 Errata is your next hope for that buff.

Ilgoth wrote:
People really just try to keep their hopes up about TWC buff. Weazel has it right.

Our codex has its own entry.
"Storm Shield (Thunderwolf Cavalry)"

If CA2018 does not have exactly the same entry, our Codex entry remains as the standing value.

It's that simple. You can keep hoping that they forgot to include own entry for TWC storm shield, but dont try to bend anywhere further. CA2018 Errata is your next hope for that buff.

Lets just pray that the CA2018 Errata is not withdrawing the 2pts SS for Space Marine / Wolves.

2pts shield is great for us anyway, even though TWC didn't get it. We could have a ton of WG of every kind packing SS, as well as more Wulfen carrying TH/SS.