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Anyone see on warcom the weapon changes? Confirmed all storm Sheilds will be like indomitus shields. This will make thunder cav and wulfen more resilient to small arms fire, especially if using terrain well this Ed, and unfortunately weaker against heavy weapons. On another note flamers are better in a big way. Put them on termies and troops like blood claws for 12” flames as death.

I want to know what changes are being made to frost weapons and the cost of SS on units/TWC. I hope TWC go down in point cost or they get a 4th wound to compensate for the lack of 3++.

I would like that. 2w for the marine and 2w for the wolf makes sense.

I know new codex is around the corner. How are dreadnaughts these days?

I mostly play nids/gsc. But considering dusting of my SW long termn.

I really like bringing Murderfang in from strategic reserves. Using him with touch of the wild strat is bonkers. He rerolls charges naturally so if you can position a wolf priest near where he is coming in he can get +2 to charge also. A 7” rerollable charge with a dread that with the strat will have about 9Attacks at S12 -3 3dmg rerolling wounds Because of his claws. And he is a character so woth a strat he can fight when he dies. For only 135pts.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Anyone see on warcom the weapon changes? Confirmed all storm Sheilds will be like indomitus shields. This will make thunder cav and wulfen more resilient to small arms fire, especially if using terrain well this Ed, and unfortunately weaker against heavy weapons. On another note flamers are better in a big way. Put them on termies and troops like blood claws for 12” flames as death.

The only was a Wulfen has a better save now is if he happens to be in light cover and the opponent is shooting with AP- weaponry.

Wulfen are now worse against; bolt rifles, old school bolters (when in tactical doctrine), astartes chainswords.

I've been considering starting a wolves army (for a custom legion project) and I'm curious - I don't see a lot (in fact none) of talk about Wolf Claws. They seem to be lightning claws, but put you up to S5 which is a pretty big bracket to gain. Are they just too expensive?

At some point the SW codex will come. I do not know when, but it is not long until. Those claws will get new costs and rules then. The weapons who get new rules seems to be all the once that saw little play in 8th edition. If none played claws, those will get better to.

Is there a place for thunder wolf cavalry in lists atm?

The main lists I see for space wolves, seem to be primaris squads plus impulsors... Basically the same list you could run in any army.

Niiru wrote:
Is there a place for thunder wolf cavalry in lists atm?

The main lists I see for space wolves, seem to be primaris squads plus impulsors... Basically the same list you could run in any army.

For a WAAC play no, Wulfen hit harder, have better rules and even then shooting is arguably better then fighting. For me I take a wolf lord on TWC and 3 squads of TWC base, but that's a biased opinion.

Jimbobbyish wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Is there a place for thunder wolf cavalry in lists atm?

The main lists I see for space wolves, seem to be primaris squads plus impulsors... Basically the same list you could run in any army.

For a WAAC play no, Wulfen hit harder, have better rules and even then shooting is arguably better then fighting. For me I take a wolf lord on TWC and 3 squads of TWC base, but that's a biased opinion.

Is there no need for TWC and Wulfen in the same list? They do seem to fill a similar role.

Do Wolves have any decent and fluffy shooting units? Wolf Guard maybe?

Niiru wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Is there a place for thunder wolf cavalry in lists atm?

The main lists I see for space wolves, seem to be primaris squads plus impulsors... Basically the same list you could run in any army.

For a WAAC play no, Wulfen hit harder, have better rules and even then shooting is arguably better then fighting. For me I take a wolf lord on TWC and 3 squads of TWC base, but that's a biased opinion.

Is there no need for TWC and Wulfen in the same list? They do seem to fill a similar role.

Do Wolves have any decent and fluffy shooting units? Wolf Guard maybe?

Fluffy, wolf guard terminators with combis/cyclones; decent maybe the stormwolf/fang with quad melta depending on how the new supplement treats their costing.

 Niiai wrote:
At some point the SW codex will come. I do not know when, but it is not long until. Those claws will get new costs and rules then. The weapons who get new rules seems to be all the once that saw little play in 8th edition. If none played claws, those will get better to.

I'm expecting frost weapons to go away TBH. one of the little things lost as we get folded into the space marine codex.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
At some point the SW codex will come. I do not know when, but it is not long until. Those claws will get new costs and rules then. The weapons who get new rules seems to be all the once that saw little play in 8th edition. If none played claws, those will get better to.

I'm expecting frost weapons to go away TBH. one of the little things lost as we get folded into the space marine codex.

That's a fair guess but i'll point out that in the leaked vanguard veteran squad weapon list they make the distinction between a power sword and the relic blade when they could have called them both regular power swords. it's just a guess but if they make 2 different weapons because of the weapons sculps, frost weapons having different sculps would get their own rules. A similar situation would happen with the sanguinary guard and their swords unless they are power swords already (idk about BA).

Niiru wrote:



Is there no need for TWC and Wulfen in the same list? They do seem to fill a similar role.

Do Wolves have any decent and fluffy shooting units? Wolf Guard maybe?

TWC and Wulfen may have a similar role but they match very well together and TWC will get some bonus form Wulfen.

Long Fangs are good ranged shooting unit and certainly fluffy. They're devastators who don't need HQs auras. The Stormfang Gunship is also very powerful but I suggest keeping it cheap, with heavy bolters instead of meltas. This way it costs 250 points which isn't a points sink but still capable of solid supporting firepower. Of course don't bring it if it's the only vehicle or primary target in the list.

I want to know what changes are being made to frost weapons and the cost of SS on units/TWC. I hope TWC go down in point cost or they get a 4th wound to compensate for the lack of 3++.

If they go by their statement of all Full Astartes gaining a wound, TWC will gain a wound. But Wulfen will not as they don't have full power armor. (Stupid Power Capris).

Is there a place for thunder wolf cavalry in lists atm?

I use 1-2 squads as distraction carnifex's mostly. Minimum size, all with SS, two with chainswords and the leader with TH. If they get to fight extra bonus fun. They have access to some nasty strats so people are generally happy killing them. Making the Wolf attacks D2 or giving them Mortals on 6's to wound (against infantry) is pretty good. If these guys gain a wound for losing protection from the SS without gaining any more points I'll be happy. That is I expect their points to go up, but hope the SS goes down to compensate.

Wulfen could be in a rough place come the new books. If they don't gain a wound they will be just easier to kill. Mostly they get hit with high AP anyway. We'll just have to see.

SS Terminators though, I've been using 5 man packs for a while, they already kick ass. TH/SS Pack leader, TH/SS/Cyclone, SS/Stormbolterx3. In terrain with three wounds, they will be ridiculously tough with the new SS.

Justyn wrote:

I want to know what changes are being made to frost weapons and the cost of SS on units/TWC. I hope TWC go down in point cost or they get a 4th wound to compensate for the lack of 3++.

If they go by their statement of all Full Astartes gaining a wound, TWC will gain a wound. But Wulfen will not as they don't have full power armor. (Stupid Power Capris).

Is there a place for thunder wolf cavalry in lists atm?

I use 1-2 squads as distraction carnifex's mostly. Minimum size, all with SS, two with chainswords and the leader with TH. If they get to fight extra bonus fun. They have access to some nasty strats so people are generally happy killing them. Making the Wolf attacks D2 or giving them Mortals on 6's to wound (against infantry) is pretty good. If these guys gain a wound for losing protection from the SS without gaining any more points I'll be happy. That is I expect their points to go up, but hope the SS goes down to compensate.

Wulfen could be in a rough place come the new books. If they don't gain a wound they will be just easier to kill. Mostly they get hit with high AP anyway. We'll just have to see.

SS Terminators though, I've been using 5 man packs for a while, they already kick ass. TH/SS Pack leader, TH/SS/Cyclone, SS/Stormbolterx3. In terrain with three wounds, they will be ridiculously tough with the new SS.

Lmao dude, those loadouts and setups are almost exactly how I run mine as well! I love it lol.

Twc in small batches with ss and chainswords are the best, they are cheap enough when you lose them its not a big deal and put out enough wounds that you can do some serious infantry clearing with them.

Personally i run my terms as 5 man ss/sb and 1 gets a cyclone as well, I dont give them cc weapons because they never end up near the actual action like that. They move around and grab objectives while "clearing the road" so more dedicated cc can get in and kill something juicy.

But yeah, almost the same setups. Got to love seeing someone else also having success with it.

So after seeing the Warcom article about masters of the chapter I decided to start working a on fun casual list with lots of dreads. Plan is to make iron priest master of the forge with warlord trait having dreads +1 attack and a Primaris Slaplain Wolf priest using hero of the chapter to get wise orator for litanies on 2+ as well as making Him master of sanctity. With mantra of strength, master crafted weapon on tales of the deep he will be 6 attacks @S7 -2 5dmg vs monsters and vehicles! Here is my list. Keep in kind it’s not finished yet but it contains basically 10 heavy flamers for clearing hordes before charging I to combat. I want to own the mid board which shouldn’t be too hard as my club uses lots of obscuring terrain.
[/spoiler]
++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [62 PL, 1,205pts, 13CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

+ HQ +

Bjorn the Fell-handed [10 PL, 190pts, 1CP]: Heavy flamer, Helfrost cannon

Iron Priest on Thunderwolf [Legends] [6 PL, 125pts]: Helfrost pistol, The Armour of Russ, Thunder hammer, Warlord

+ Troops +

Incursors [5 PL, 115pts]: Haywire mine, Incursor Sergeant
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades

+ Elites +

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 165pts]: 2x Ironhail heavy stubber, Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon

Murderfang [8 PL, 135pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Mortis Dreadnought [7 PL, 110pts]
. Two assault cannons: 2x Assault cannon

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought [18 PL, 365pts]: 2x Heavy flamer, 3x Hunter-killer missile, Storm cannon array, Storm cannon array

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [24 PL, 480pts, -4CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-2CP]

+ Stratagems +

Trophies of Fenris [-1CP]: Trophies of Fenris - 1 Extra Relic

+ HQ +

Primaris Wolf Priest [5 PL, 85pts, -1CP]: 4. Mantra of Strength, Master-Crafted Weapon, Saga of Majesty, Stratagem: Hero of The Chapter, Tale of the Wolf King and the Lord of the Deeps

+ Troops +

Incursors [5 PL, 115pts]: Haywire mine, Incursor Sergeant
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades

+ Elites +

Wulfen Dreadnought [7 PL, 140pts]
. Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield
. . Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Heavy flamer
. . Great Wolf Claw: Great Wolf Claw, Heavy flamer

Wulfen Dreadnought [7 PL, 140pts]
. Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield
. . Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Heavy flamer
. . Great Wolf Claw: Great Wolf Claw, Heavy flamer

++ Total: [86 PL, 9CP, 1,685pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe[/spoiler]

So based on the reviews I’ve seen we get to use units like centurions and stormravens? I say this because they weren’t specifically excluded.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So based on the reviews I’ve seen we get to use units like centurions and stormravens? I say this because they weren’t specifically excluded.

Yup. GW also slimed down some data sheets like Ven dreads have SW wargear options, Terminators can have the wolfguard keyword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
we'll see if the woulfguard keyword on regular terminators is to hold us over until we get our book or if they really replaced Wolfguard terminators

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/05/codex-updates-wargear-profiles-and-rules/

Here is the update to hold us over until the book comes out. We lost frost weapons, not the wulfen ones.

Wulfen where nerfed, we saw it coming. They get to fight in death as long as they didn't fight already, they no longer have a +1 attack aura, instead they always count as charging, and they lost advance and charge.

But TWC got a buff! they can advance and charge again! but crushing teeth and claws are capped at 3 attacks (I think this affects exploding attacks on 6s)

Wulfen Dreads have duty eternal and cleaving with the axe does D3+3 damage, Neat

We still have our Wolf Guard Terminators mixing and matching.

Sadly Long Fangs have taken a blow, they are like regular devestators but with a wolf guard leader.

That was just a skim of the sheets, i'm sure there are more changes but I think the changes are fair. TWC for the win!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wulfen buff: the assault doctrine is considered active for Wulfen whenever a models make an attack, so they pretty much always have an additional -1 AP and attacks explode on 6s

I was looking through the FAQ. Can we take a Wolf Lord in Terminator armour?

Also, have Long Fangs lost a lot of their special rules?

Is there some restriction for how many Wolf Lords we can take when the Codex drops?

 Niiai wrote:
I was looking through the FAQ. Can we take a Wolf Lord in Terminator armour?

Also, have Long Fangs lost a lot of their special rules?

Is there some restriction for how many Wolf Lords we can take when the Codex drops?

Wolf Lord in Terminator Armor is just a generic Captain in Terminator Armor datasheet. Same with regular Wolf Guard Battle Leader being rolled in with Lieutenants. I suspect that the limits on Captains apply to Wolf Lords as well since they are basically just Captains with a funny name (kind of like how Dark Angels ones are called "Masters").

I disagree about Wulfen getting nerfed. I didn't want to run them before but now I do. They became PL 8 meaning they take only 1cp to outflank. They can still reroll charges. They're always in Assault Doctrine and always count as having charged. This means they always have exploding sixes and they also always have +1 attack and +1 to hit.

While they kinda suffered from Storm Shield nerf they did gain a point of toughness and the weapon options outside of thunderhammer got cheaper. Oddly enough their stormshield doesn't have a cost listed but I'm sure that is a mistake.

I'm thinking a unit of 5 all with Axes (apart from the leader). That clocks in at 162 points which is a fairly reasonable costed distraction carnifex coming out of reserves. Sure they'll probably die horribly if they fail their charge but that's not a huge investment to lose. And you can always double down on that to make sure one unit makes it in.

Otherwise I'm not super sad about anything in particular, nerfs came as expected and we'll probably get more relics (Losing the best ones kinda hurt, Wulfen Stone and Armour of Russ) and stratagems and the usual warlord traits once the supplement lands. Did anyone else notice Björn's Heavy Plasma is damage 2 base?

Arjac lost the +A aura for wolf guard and the damage reduction on his shield, but keeps a 3++ storm shield.

ryzouken wrote:
Arjac lost the +A aura for wolf guard and the damage reduction on his shield, but keeps a 3++ storm shield.

Might be that +A auras are a thing of the past now. We lost Wulfen Stone and also the Wulfen +1A aura as well.

this unit is always treated
as having made a charge move for the purposes of the
Shock Assault ability.

This gives +1A for sure but does this trigger the +1 to hit as well? Kinda unsure about this.

Stormfang/wolf got a massive points hike,
more than 100 points, although it's also more deadly now. But I'm extremely disappointed for that.

Bjorn, wulfen, and TWC (5ppm shields!) slightly cheaper.

 Blackie wrote:
Stormfang/wolf got a massive points hike,
more than 100 points, although it's also more deadly now. But I'm extremely disappointed for that.

Bjorn, wulfen, and TWC (5ppm shields!) slightly cheaper.

I bought both Repulsors quite recently so was properly disappointed about their sweeping nerfs.. so I'd much rather take a Stormfang than either of the Repulsors. In that context the Fang doesn't seem overly expensive, it has a lot of killing power. Not a huge fan of random number of shots though.

Killing power yes, but tough as before or actually even less considering that anti tank weapons are becoming more efficient.

I always played the gunship with lascannons and heavy bolters as 250 points wasn't bad for the whole thing, but now it's 360 (or 370 with meltas) unless you give it the missiles which are pretty terrible.

250 points + 85 for the unit inside was a good bargain, 360 + 100 is a different story. At least infantries doubled their wounds, so its cargo becomes way more effective.

 Weazel wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Stormfang/wolf got a massive points hike,
more than 100 points, although it's also more deadly now. But I'm extremely disappointed for that.

Bjorn, wulfen, and TWC (5ppm shields!) slightly cheaper.

I bought both Repulsors quite recently so was properly disappointed about their sweeping nerfs.. so I'd much rather take a Stormfang than either of the Repulsors. In that context the Fang doesn't seem overly expensive, it has a lot of killing power. Not a huge fan of random number of shots though.

I will just shelf all the marine / Space Wolves tanks and big flyers. In 8th they were priced as if they always receive Chapter Master and LT. buff, they were already overpriced. In 9th, they get a price hike and specifically been removed from the list that those characters buff could apply, while also lost fly for Impulsor and Repulsor. So I think they have no place in SM or SW army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd just take 3 packs of Long Fangs if I need fire support.